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#29126 Re: Human missions » Clunking to Mars - Are the needed parts already up there? » 2004-08-30 09:02:54

List of Authors I find very interest since it is more like a united nations who's who.

Surname Name Country of Origin Current Occupation

Abiko Satoko Japan Ph.D. Student in Space Robotics
Tohoku University, Japan

Amaldi Andrea Italy Project Controller, ESA Human Spaceflight Dir. The Netherlands

Barr Yael Israel Medical Doctor
Israeli Aerospace Medicine Institute, Israel

Belin de Chantemèle Eric France Ph.D. Student Space Cardiovascular Physiology Université

Claude Bernard Lyon 1, France
Bonnewijn Sabrina Belgium Mechanical Engineer (Aerospace and Aeronautics) Vrije Universiteit Brussel, Belgium

Chen Diane Canada Software Product Assurance Engineer
MD Robotics, Canada

Dewhurst Brian USA Staff Officer, Board on Physics and Astronomy National Research Council, USA

Eley Serena USA B.Sc. in Physics
California Institute of Technology, USA

Englund Dirk Germany/USA Ph.D. Student in Applied Physics
Stanford University, USA

Faiyetole Ayodele Nigeria Student, Master of Space Studies 2003-2004 International Space University, France

Fontaine Sylvie France Design Engineer, Ariane 5 Solid Propellant Booster Systems,
EADS Space Transportation, Bordeaux, France

Gebic Kemal Turkey Master’s Space Technologies Application, France;
Graduate Physics, France; Graduate Astronomy, Turkey

Grafe Mathias Germany M.Sc. Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering Technical University of Dresden, Germany

Hales Jan Harry Denmark M.Sc. Student in Electrical Engineering Technical University of Denmark, Denmark

Hanratty C. David Ireland MEngSc (Research), B.E. (Mechanical) University College Dublin, Ireland

Jones Brandon USA Engineer
Titan Corporation, Houston, USA

Jones Edward USA Developmental Space Systems Engineer
Los Angeles Air Force Base, California, USA

Jones Amanda USA GPS Project Engineer
Los Angeles Air Force Base, California, USA

Klaus Kurt USA M.S. in Planetary Science
Adv. Computing, The Boeing Company, USA

Laufer René Germany Aerospace Engineer, Institute of Space Systems University of Stuttgart, Germany

Li Bin China Propulsion Systems Engineer, China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation, China

Lim Dawn Canada Medical Student
University of Toronto, Canada

Matsumoto Kunihiro Japan ISS Payload Engineer,
NASDA, Japan

Mayrhofer Florian Austria Student of Molecular Biology
University of Vienna, Vienna, Austria

Müller Sánchez Francisco Mexico Master Student in Satellite Engineering Universität Karlsruhe, Karlsruhe, Germany

Nangalia Vishal UK Medical Doctor
United Kingdom v

Nguyen Hugo Sweden Researcher, The Ångstrom Space Technology Centre Uppsala University, Sweden

Nicolini Marco Italy Calculus, Physics, and Astronomy Teacher
Science and Technology Reporter, Italy

Ó Cuilleanáin Cian Ireland Student Master of Space Studies 03/04, ISU; B.E. (Mechanical)
University College Dublin, Ireland

Olansen Jon USA Lead Safety Engineer, Space Shuttle Upgrades
NASA/Johnson Space Center, Houston, USA

Organek Alison Canada Medical Student
University of Toronto, Canada

O'Rourke Johanna Australia Lawyer

Blake Dawson Waldron, Australia

Poon Tim Canada M.Sc. Student Electrical and Computer Eng. University of

Alberta, Edmonton, Canada

Porfiri Katerina Greece Survey Engineer
Greek Ministry of Finance, Greece

Rico Julio France Master Engineer in Industrial Systems Engineering
Master’s Degree in Space Tech. Apps., France

Sentenai Alina Germany Master Student in Aerospace Engineering TU Munich, Germany
Master Student in General Engineering, EC Paris, France

Slane Kenneth USA Director, Business Practices, and Ethics Advisor
Rocketdyne Propulsion and Power, USA

Smith Leissa Canada Systems Engineer
MD Robotics, Brampton, Canada

Smith Heather USA Research Assistant
SETI Institute/ NASA Ames, USA

Takahashi Yuki USA/Japan Ph.D. Student in Astrophysics
University of California, Berkeley, USA

Tanaka Kentaro Japan International Marketing Section
JSAT Corporation, Tokyo, Japan

Tripp Timothy USA Senior Manager, Product Engineering
The Boeing Company, Huntsville, Alabama, USA

Van der List Marco The Netherlands Technical Project Manager
Bradford Engineering B.V., The Netherlands

Weik Johannes Germany/Bolivia Architect
Stuttgart, Germany

Zhu Beiyuan China Engineer, China Aerospace Science and Technology
Corporation, China

Zhu Zhichun China Engineer, China Aerospace Science and Technology
Corporation, China

#29127 Re: Human missions » Clunking to Mars - Are the needed parts already up there? » 2004-08-30 08:50:50

Spelling your link would help with the extra T.
But I still did not find the execsummary pdf.

170 pages
http://www.spacesurgeons.com/documents/METZTLI.pdf

#29128 Re: Human missions » The need for a Moon direct - and sustainabilty program » 2004-08-30 06:20:20

Martian Republic
I too feel that the shuttle external tank has value if it where give a ride the rest of the way up into orbit. To be re-used in a number of manners. They only cost 40 million in comparision to the 1 billion shuttle flight cost but it is essentially free once there in orbit. As you note there would have been at least a 100 of them to be reused. One a lot more garbage could go into one of them versus the very small progress M or proton. Also the progress M or proton could be recycled for it's engines and such making a very in expensive mission to the moon from the station possible.

#29129 Re: Human missions » Post central for information on CEV 2 - ...continue here. » 2004-08-30 06:18:32

Martian Republic
I too feel that the shuttle external tank has value if it where give a ride the rest of the way up into orbit. To be re-used in a number of manners. They only cost 40 million in comparition to the 1 billion shuttle flight cost but it is essentially free once there in orbit. As you note there would have been at least a 100 of them to be reused. One a lot more garbage could go into one of them versus the very small progress M or proton. Also the Progress M or proton could be recycled for it's engines and such making a very in expensive mission to the moon from the station possible.

I am posting this also under the moon direct topic.

#29130 Re: Human missions » The need for a Moon direct - and sustainabilty program » 2004-08-30 05:59:03

Sorry guy's I am trying to caught up from the long weekend and all the numerous post to this topic.

Josh Cryer
You put it so nicely with the, if we develope it for the moon it will work for Mars approach to design needs.

Grypd
Your use of robotics for base construction is a plus. In another thread you make use of simular talents for re-use of any thing that is brought to the ISS. If it is there it is free since it has already be paid for.

Gennaro
The use of nuclear do to its higher outputting levels is a plus for a large base but it is a very costly in the early stages of man building initial bases on either the moon or Mars. Think free when it comes to solar energy and to the initial lower cost of the panels.
Great chemistry lessen Of getting what is needed for survival though chemical reactions.
The provision is that the plug is never pulled is the feeling I share as well, but how to get the funding and to lower the costs as we go is the question.


deagleninja
Quote:
We could send 2 Americans, 2 Russians, 1 European, 1 Japanesse, and 1 Chinesse and include every major space program in the world. Keep it simple by using mainly US tech with a dash of ESA and Russia and let the other counties help foot the bill for representation.

This is a great concept to get the other partner nations on the band wagon to the moon especially for those that have no put a man on it yet.

comstar03
Your right lets not think in 2D or just of building on the surfice.

Lets dig caves and line them to keep the precious gases from escaping, making of green houses inside these caverns and so much more.. Whether the moon ever has a large population it does not matter but it must become self sustaining and suffiencent.

Dook
Yes caves or self contained habitats.
The navies of the world live in subs for extended periods of time. We could learn a lot about the logistics of population to resources needed as viewed though there use as it would apply to either the moon or mars as the goal.
By the way the threads on your vehicles would be in high demand for use in either case.


As for the TV broadcast of the 60's nastalgia Black and white of the Moon or the color of Mars, I want both. Watching a reality show on the moon is only going to be interesting if it is made interesting. Not just simply a running camera catching everything that goes on.

#29131 Re: Human missions » Post central for information on CEV 2 - ...continue here. » 2004-08-27 21:10:32

As you noted with space, cost which must be lower in order to get industry to start investing. They also must have a place to call theirs to use as well in the mean time. Even if it is just an empty can with only the bare essentials to survive in it.

#29132 Re: Human missions » The need for a Moon direct - and sustainabilty program » 2004-08-27 21:06:09

One big shot to mars direct just little more than flags and foot prints due mostly to travel time and the overly cautious Nasa at this time. Not to mention insufficient funds to build with while both the shuttle and the ISS are in use. Lowering costs for the ISS and for shuttle use is a must.

#29133 Re: Human missions » Might Shuttle C - save Hubble? » 2004-08-27 21:00:49

Major shuttle return to flight implementation plan announced for end of month. Since Nasa seems o be giving up on some recommendations.

http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2004/au … _plan.html

#29134 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Space Elevator gets more funding » 2004-08-27 20:55:15

Space elevator contest proposed ‘Elevator:2010’ aimed
at encouraging technology development

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5792719/

Seems like every activity wants to use the contest or bake off competitive style one upmanship to get things going....

#29135 Re: Human missions » Cheap heavy launcher - can it be done at all » 2004-08-27 11:41:49

We all know of what it entails to create a heavy lift vehicle.
1 payload max limit
2 stage payload drive alternate lander if possible
3 stage to leave orbit
4 stage to leave earth
5 external strap ons if needed

Selection of off the shelf may be possible for fuel to tank and of even some engines per stage combinations. The remainder is wiring and plumbing to get everything to where it needs to connect.

#29136 Re: Human missions » The need for a Moon direct - and sustainabilty program » 2004-08-27 11:22:44

Grypd: Are you thinking solar reflector re-directors or are you thinking of solar cell collecting and beaming of the energy to the moon via microwave band.

#29137 Re: Human missions » Post central for information on CEV 2 - ...continue here. » 2004-08-27 11:19:18

You are right in trying to get something for free in the reuse of the ISS. Though it it still be a long way off before any privately own corporation can send anybody to it.

#29138 Re: Space Policy » Space fairing Nations - The ever changing view » 2004-08-27 11:02:26

While very unique in that it is an alternative fuel for power generation. Australian engineers have created an electricity generator fuelled by decomposing bananas, and hope to build a full size fruit-fired power station.

Bananas could power Aussie homes

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3604666.stm

#29139 Re: Human missions » Post central for information on CEV 2 - ...continue here. » 2004-08-27 10:25:12

Would it be worth starting to lay any new modules in parallel to the existing station linking them together at the mid point and continuing to do so as each is added along the full length of the station. In addition bring up more gyro's to handle the additional loading weight of those new modules.

#29140 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Potentially Hazardous Asteroids - (...does this make you feel any better?) » 2004-08-27 10:16:36

Depending on the close encounter of these near Earth objects what is the distance relationship to Earth that would allow for it to be deflected by gravity either to be directed on a collision course or to be captured. Any references?

#29141 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Major Extrasolar Planet Discovery - ...to be announced August 31! » 2004-08-27 10:12:01

Well, since we are able to see a 14 x Earth with a very small telescope maybe we have finally found a way by which to link telescopes to finally actually see them that are much larger.

One can only hope to see another blue marble around an alien sun...

#29142 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Fusion for Ground Launch - Is it theoretically possible? » 2004-08-27 09:00:37

I was not quite sure of which topic to post this under but her goes.
We all know that developement of Nuclear power for space use is a must but in the same vein we know how dangerous it can be as well. Though a slow process of learning and or understanding we can build safer and more robust reactors. We must over come or fears of it for the eventual use of it in space to shorten the length of time to the planets and to give the much needed power resource for use for extended flights.

Analysis: Nuclear Power Gaining Popularity
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/nuclear-civil-04l.html

#29143 Re: Human missions » Post central for information on CEV 2 - ...continue here. » 2004-08-27 08:48:00

Speaking of adding more modules to the station, the Russian do plan on just that.

Russia to add new module to ISS in 2007
http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.htm … &PageNum=0

#29144 Re: Human missions » The need for a Moon direct - and sustainabilty program » 2004-08-27 08:38:11

A lot of the designs have been tested within many of the universities and research labs but they have not been massed produced for real applied use.

#29145 Re: Space Policy » Space fairing Nations - The ever changing view » 2004-08-27 07:36:40

I just do not get how we can keep awarding contracts this way. The money paid must be for pre paid storage of the 4 delta's.

Boeing wins rocket contract despite suspension
http://www.centredaily.com/mld....249.htm

#29146 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Da Vinci in the Running - Let the Space Race Begin! » 2004-08-27 07:14:06

Bureaucracy Pins Rocket to Earth, Da Vinci a privately developed spacecraft, still doesn't have a couple of precious pieces of paper it needs to get to space. I guess they feel that the rocket has not been though enough testing to ensure safety of crew and of flight area.

http://www.wired.com/news/space/0,2697, … _tophead_6

#29147 Re: Human missions » Post central for information on CEV 2 - ...continue here. » 2004-08-27 06:52:16

Structural engineering would probably run an I-beam or truss the length of the modules and to tie each module to it to give it a more ridget support system rather than putting stress on the node inter connection points. But how would one get a continuous piece up to the station since no vehicle could bring up one of the appropiate length. All the more reason to do more than science at the station.

#29148 Re: Human missions » The need for a Moon direct - and sustainabilty program » 2004-08-27 06:27:24

The problem with any colonization is trade routes must be established. That in itself would aid private and commercial business to finally join in because they can see a profit is to be made.

A launching pad from a moon base colony is only one thing that it could or should be doing the other is useful mineral export trade from Earth to the moon as well as from the moon the Mars. In addition Mars should and probably be doing the same thing with exporting similar minerals to the moon as well as to Earth if one only takes the time to look.

#29149 Re: Human missions » China The Dominant Superpower In 20 Years..... - What does this mean for US? » 2004-08-27 06:13:46

But for china's people to want to buy American goods they need to be equal to or of lower cost than there own produced products.

#29150 Re: Human missions » The need for a Moon direct - and sustainabilty program » 2004-08-26 14:25:01

Why waist the time with sending any probes at all?

We do not need science to build, only mining or bull dozer equipment. We know where we want to be for the chance of water contained regolith at the poles in deep creaters. Pick one it has two of them to chose from.

What will be of need for telerobotics is networking of satelites to allow for constant communications.

Once the cave or mining hole is dug. Then what next? Man... and more.
Lets go....

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