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#28951 Re: Life support systems » Gourmet Cooking en route to Mars » 2004-12-20 09:59:54

Developing Good Eats for Space Missions Space Scientists Looking for Ways to Make Food Better, Longer Lasting

With all the recent news of the crew aboard the ISS needing to leave from eating themselves out of house and home it plays right into what would we do on the long journey and duration stay on mars.

First not stove and now no fridge, what else can we not provide for those that go beyound? ???

Hungry? Chances are you can satisfy your craving pretty easily. But imagine you are encased in a small craft hurdling some 30 million miles from Earth and there's nothing good in the fridge — actually, there's no fridge.

#28952 Re: Human missions » ISS Woes & To-Mars » 2004-12-20 06:49:46

Well it looks like men might get ruled out as the first to mars.

That's one small disappointment for man, a giant trip for women

Men may be from Mars. But, say scientists, only women are strong enough to fly there.

A new study by experts in the United States has claimed that women may make better and fitter astronauts for long trips into space. Men are simply biologically inferior and less able to withstand the rigours of space flight.

#28953 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Methane & Bermuda Triangle » 2004-12-20 06:44:52

Have watched similar shows in the past: but there are also the unexplained bright lights, magnetic compasses that do not work and a few other items that can not be explained away.

#28954 Re: Human missions » The need for a Moon direct *2* - ...continue here. » 2004-12-20 06:26:53

Much like the topic of the Going to Mars To stay How Much Mass To LEO, the moon needs many of the same questions answered if we are going to be successful beyound flags and foot prints as well.

Where do I start, in order to know the down mass we must detail the needs for the given size crew and the stay time frames plus a buffer zone on consumables and this includes energy needs.

Energy needs are not only for science, lighting, Heat and other uses. So what is the exact quantity of the supply that we can send and what forms of creation can be supplied for the safety of the crew(solar, nuclear..).

If nuclear we can detail out what it would provide and we know how much it weighs but what happens when it is not working for any reason or that it must work at a reduce power available rate. What them would the crew do for there energy needs?
Multiple power sources are needed and they each must be capable of at least half of all power requirements or needs each or more.

Mars is different from the moon, The moon lack of atmosphere, gravity levels and yes radiation exposure are greater and these along mean we must work out the details of a sealed habitat.

Actually the plan would be to demostrate the ability on the moon with a mars pre-planning process being put in place.
Meaning make the goals to design hardware to last as long as a mars mission would, design ships capacities to those that are required for a mars mission.
Doing all the ground work as it were in order to justify funding for Mars, for we can say we can do it then. There would be no nay sayers for We will have worked out the radiation potential for damage to crew, to have worked out the power requirement and types needed, the consumables of food, water and air regeneration as well as resupply capabilities and lastly the ship will have been designed for the journey.
Until Nasa can get the shuttle flying to finish the ISS we will not be able to do any of this without some contractors just say no to profits and doing the work needed.

#28955 Re: Human missions » We Should Not Plan For Permanent Presence on Mars - It Will hurt congressional approval » 2004-12-20 06:19:38

Actually the plan would be to demonstrate the ability on the moon with a mars pre-planning process being put in place.
Meaning make the goals to design hardware to last as long as a mars mission would, design ships capacities to those that are required for a mars mission.
Doing all the ground work as it were in order to justify funding for Mars, for we can say we can do it then. There would be no nay sayers for We will have worked out the radiation potential for damage to crew, to have worked out the power requirement and types needed, the consumables of food, water and air regeneration as well as resupply capabilities and lastly the ship will have been designed for the journey.
Until Nasa can get the shuttle flying to finish the ISS we will not be able to do any of this without some contractors just say no to profits and doing the work needed.

#28956 Re: Human missions » Going to Mars To stay - How Much Mass To LEO » 2004-12-20 06:09:36

Ok so I am late jumping into this topic  sad  long weekends with family and such. Thanks for posting it thou John:

Where do I start, in order to know the down mass we must detail the needs for the given size crew and the stay time frames plus a buffer zone on consumables and this includes energy needs.

Energy needs are not only for science, lighting, Heat and other uses. So what is the exact quantity of the supply that we can send and what forms of creation can be supplied for the safety of the crew(solar, nuclear..).

If nuclear we can detail out what it would provide and we know how much it weighs but what happens when it is not working for any reason or that it must work at a reduce power available rate. What them would the crew do for there energy needs?
Multiple power sources are needed and they each must be capable of at least half of all power requirements or needs each or more.

#28957 Re: Human missions » Hubble Mistake **2** - Action still Needed » 2004-12-20 05:57:48

One question what do ground telescope cost to build, this includes land purchase and fighting the public perception of we do not want it here additudes. Then there is the fact that earth based telescopes never die they just fade away into the sun set.
Space telescopes are not the same...

We need a telescope topic area for all of them...

#28958 Re: Human missions » Return to flight slipping » 2004-12-17 20:53:46

Sounds like a big gemini capsule but in either case it would need lots of redesign to get to where we need to be.

If Nasa was a business it would have never been allowed to act that way nor would the funding for such continue.

#28959 Re: Unmanned probes » Opportunity & Spirit **8** - ...More... » 2004-12-17 14:35:56

We actually could but it would require a clean sheet rocket design and most likely in orbit assembly to get the ship large enough to do the science on the first mission out there. In fact it may mean multiple ships for each purpose with the posibility of them being not sent at the same time.

#28960 Re: Unmanned probes » Opportunity & Spirit **8** - ...More... » 2004-12-17 13:41:00

Not really with all the loose top soil and dust making things that would normally be possible to be seen. Best chances would be a clifts or walls but we have not been able to get that close to any of them.

#28962 Re: Unmanned probes » SMART-1 - ESA lunar orbiter » 2004-12-17 11:22:22

Just a few more tid bits:
On this page you will find the article Moon says "Cheese" for lunar mini-camera

12 November 2004   Since its launch in September 2003, the small but remarkable SMART-1 satellite has been silently spiralling its way to the Moon. In mid November, it will be captured by lunar gravity and next January it will reach its final orbit and start science observations. This week EuroNews talks to the SMART-1 AMIE camera team.

Spacedaily article

Once it enters into a near-polar orbit around the Moon in January 2005, SMART-1 will also become a science platform for lunar observation. SMART-1 will search for signs of water-ice in craters near the Moon's poles, provide data to shed light on the still uncertain origin of the Moon, and reconstruct its evolution by mapping its topography and the surface distribution of minerals and key chemical elements.

#28963 Re: Unmanned probes » SMART-1 - ESA lunar orbiter » 2004-12-17 09:37:47

Mission status page it does seem very quite indeed but not much to speak of since it is mostly an imaging probe.

#28964 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Radiation Protecion - What Sheilding is Adequate? » 2004-12-17 07:50:37

Spatial Scale Of High-Speed Flows In The Magnetotail
Studing the earths own protective system is a must if we would want to design something that will work.

#28965 Re: Unmanned probes » Mars Science Laboratory (MSL) - rover » 2004-12-17 06:31:51

While the contanimation question probably deserves a new thread I will post here. NASA preps spacecraft, hygiene tips for Mars

Preventing biological contamination will be one of the key elements in a series of missions to Mars slated for the next two decades, particularly when samples of Martian soil come back to Earth around 2014, said scientists at the American Geophysicists Union, a science symposium taking place here this week.

Many probes and landers mentioned in the article.

The issue of Earth inadvertently contaminating other planets was first raised in the 1950s. An outer-space treaty in 1967 then made it U.S. policy to try to prevent extraterrestrial infections.

#28966 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Any Asteroids in the asteroid belt made of rocket » 2004-12-17 06:28:07

Former Astronaut, Engineers Hope to Deflect Asteroid

Hollywood films have dramatized an event that scientists say could one day happen. An asteroid approaches the earth, threatening the planet, and a team of daring astronauts travels to space to stop it. Some scientists and engineers say the films were not realistic, but that the threat is real.

In the 1998 film Armageddon, Bruce Willis and his team landed on an asteroid and used a nuclear weapon to destroy it. Scientists say the movie was not accurate in its science, but that its central premise was authentic. An asteroid could one day strike the earth with devastating results.

Actually enjoyed that movie as well as space cowboys and a few others but that's for a different thread.

Former astronaut Rusty Schweickart, chairman of the foundation, spoke about its goal at the Planetary Society in Pasadena, California. "To deflect an asteroid in a controlled manner by 2015. And we're not saying to write a paper about it, to think about it, to talk about it. We're saying our goal is to deflect an asteroid, that is, to move an asteroid, to change its orbit, by 2015," he says.

They feel that they could borrow the nuclear engine technology needed from the prometheus project in order to accomplish this task.

#28967 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » LIGO, LISA and Gravity Probe B - Gravity Wave Studies » 2004-12-17 05:59:56

Gravity Probe B, the most precise experiment ever, will assess frame-dragging of the fabric of space.

Spinning spheres test relativity's subtlety

Part of this was actually proven a few months back with geo stationary satelites positioning error.
Lengthy article with lots of detail of the how the measurements will be done.
But I am surprized about the silence since the time of its launch. ???

#28968 Re: Unmanned probes » Mars Science Laboratory (MSL) - rover » 2004-12-17 05:35:32

Another update on device going to Mars.
Los Alamos Laser to Be Launched to Mars

A laser developed by a Los Alamos National Laboratory scientist will be aboard the Mars Science Laboratory. The  "ChemCam" as it is referenced in the article will blast the Martian rocks with a laser beam to determine what they are made of. Vaporizing a small amount of the underlying mineral. Then it collects light emitted by the vaporized rock to see what it's made of. The technique, laser-induced breakdown spectroscopy will play an important part with where has the water gone and for how long was it there question.

#28969 Re: Human missions » Return to flight slipping » 2004-12-17 05:29:21

Well since the last official update on the 15 recommendations that had been approve we have up'ed the anti from 5 to 8 as of this news article.
Shuttle return edges closer Panel: NASA has satisfied 8 of 15 recommendations to launch again

The task force, which met this week in Huntsville, Ala., has certified NASA has satisfied eight of the recommendations, though minor work remains on two. Seven still need the panel's blessing.

NASA Makes Progress in Columbia Board Recommendations

Covey and his fellow task group members remained confident they would be able to complete their assessment of NASA's return-to-flight work as early as March 2005. The group plans to make its final report to NASA at least one month before the next shuttle launches.

While this last item is the real sticking point for fly or no fly for the shuttle come this next may or june time frame.
Group Urges Doable Shuttle Repair Method

NASA needs to supply astronauts with a "reasonable, doable and practicable" way to plug space shuttle holes in orbit before resuming launches, an advisory group said Thursday.

You would have thought this question would have been answered already for what size ice chunks would be dangerous to the shuttle. sad
Nasa Stennis Space Center grows ice for shuttle tests

NASA is simulating conditions typical of space shuttle launch days to see what kinds of ice and frost form on the foam insulation of the super-cooled external tank. Engineers are trying to understand better how much ice can safely accumulate on the tank without becoming a debris hazard.

#28970 Re: Human missions » Prosthetic Limbs For A Manned Mars Mission - Carry Four » 2004-12-16 20:56:54

Yes right again they are customized for the user since depending on how the amputation plus where on the body it changes the lengths of any type arm or leg.

#28971 Re: Human missions » The need for a Moon direct *2* - ...continue here. » 2004-12-16 20:53:49

I missed something I think but the object was to modify there current product for a moon mission. Which would render GPS of no value and I think the accelerometer would be off since they are not calibrated for the moons gravity, I think. kalman filters well that I know nothing of so no comment.

But the good thing is that such a mission would be somewhat subsidized by the military in that I am sure they would want to be present so as to not give away any technology inadvertently if there vehicles are used. Plus these would already be payed for by the military budget.

#28972 Re: Human missions » The need for a Moon direct *2* - ...continue here. » 2004-12-16 15:18:10

South African chemical engineer has come up with a way to produce liquid oxygen from lunar rock.

This process would make it feasible to establish permanent manned bases on the moon sometime in the future.

US space agency Nasa has made available R82m to further develop the process devised by Shaan Oosthuizen, 28, who works for British Titanium in Cambridge.

Oosthuizen is a co-inventor of the Ilmenox process, named after the process' ability to produce oxygen from the lunar mineral ilmenite.

The process exctracts oxygen from moonrock, which are metal-oxides that may contain up to 30 or 40% oxygen.

#28973 Re: Human missions » The need for a Moon direct *2* - ...continue here. » 2004-12-16 15:07:48

Missile team homes in on the Moon

Pretty novel approach to using what you have to get the job done.

A US firm is proposing to use guided missile technology to make a precision, automated landing on the Moon.
Raytheon has outlined plans for a low-cost lunar lander that uses elements from missiles designed to intercept and destroy enemy warheads fired at the US.

_40636189_ekv_raytheon_203.jpg

#28974 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Inflatable space parachute or escape pod - Just another use inflatable technology? » 2004-12-16 14:40:41

There have been a couple of points in the Has Dr. Zubrin Addressed Mars Direct Objections? thread where we have talked about the use of aerobraking the vehicles into mars orbit.

Andrews Space, Inc. Wins Contract to Flight Test a Variable-Drag Ballute

A Ballute is a pressure-stabilized, inflatable membrane that provides a large, blunt, high-drag surface for aerobraking systems. Ballutes offer significant advantages over rigid shells for aerocapture and reentry of spacecraft by providing simplified packaging and lower total weight.

Another use for inflatables?  ??? Very simular to the one the russians are working on under the technology thread.

#28975 Re: Unmanned probes » Mars Science Laboratory (MSL) - rover » 2004-12-16 09:57:42

More details for where the instruments to be included in the unit will come from and to what they will be.
NASA Picks Two IU Devices To Go To Mars

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