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Neither Ariane nor Angara have enough payload
The Angara Family looks to have a very wide range of payloads AngaraKVRB and Angara-5-UOHB look to be in the range of 20-40 T in LEO or perhaps 8,000 Kg to 16,000 to GTO. I suspect the CLV might be more exciting that the Gemini of the 60s but Assuming there are no more NASA budget cuts and assuming the CEV and CLV'Stick' ever gets built, they might be able to launch the payload of a Proton, TitanCentaur or Angara.
No, they will probobly never build a true HLLV, but they don't have to in order to contribute to getting man off this rock. If NASA is going back to the Moon to establish a base, then they are going to have to spend in the region of $800M-$1Bn every time they need to exchange crews, $500-600M for every heavy unmanned payload, or around $300-400M to send a Progress-like supply mission. If they have to send these on a regular basis, then this will chew up probobly around 33-50% of NASA's manned spaceflight budget, which will make doing Mars right and well difficult.
Elon's rockets don't have to be cheaper then Russias, which is possible anyway on the account that they are built simpler perhaps, they just have to be cheaper then what NASA is paying now. Why? Simple, so that Russia doesn't have veto power over the US Lunar program if Putin or his sucessor decide they need to excercise some political leverage over us. As I have said many times, Russian rockets are financially cheap, but politically speaking they are ruinously expensive. Elon's rockets don't have this limitation, not to mention the company is American, which will make Congress much happier too.
If SpaceX can offer a launch vehicle in the region of Delta-IV HLV or TheStick for his advertised $50M, how could NASA and the USAF not buy them?
It's too early to judge so we should wait and see and I hope Elon's next Falcons fly a lot better
but Forking out millions for an expensive fireball is not on
http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4535
given a few dollars I'm sure the ancient Chinese could build you some cheaper fireworks
http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Philosophy/Ta … o-tzu1.gif
yeah, the debts and Katrina costs are bad - here was the deficit chart for 2001
http://www.maravot.com/CBO.deficit.gif
I'm not sure where that big red deficit line is today ( it may have dropped off the chart altogether and fallen under the floor ! )
Space Scientists Whining About Bush, NASA
http://www.bloggernews.net/2006/03/spac … -bush.html
Apparently some space scientists upset about the President's vision for launching humanity off this rock and onto it's lunar neighbor. With NASA focusing on putting humanity back on the moon permanently, scientists are complaining that their toes have already been stepped on--in other words, their projects cut.
Earlier, I’d spoken to planetary scientist Jonathan Lunine of the University of Arizona, Tucson, who told me: “As far as NASA goes we have no strategy for the outer Solar System any more – it’s in a complete shambles.” He worries that the astrobiology program, which has seen some of the most significant cuts, will really suffer.
http://blogs.nature.com/news/blog/2006/ … tless.html
This comes up again in the meeting, with Cleave countering that astrobiology was not being killed, “just slowed down.” An audience member disagrees, saying that it is the biggest threat to their science in a generation. Emily Lakdawalla of the Planetary Society stood up to announce that they were launching a 'Save Our Science' campaign.
Maher: Bush Guilty of “Treason” for Putting “Oil Profits” Before Global Warming Proof
Posted by Brent Baker on March 25, 2006 - 05:58.
http://newsbusters.org/node/4616
Bill Maher ended his HBO show Friday night, Real Time with Bill Maher, with a tirade about supposed efforts by the Bush administration to suppress information about global warming. Picking up on the allegations of NASA's James Hansen who was featured on last Sunday's 60 Minutes, Maher charged that “cowboy” Bush “and his corporate goons at the White House tried to censor Mr. Hansen from delivering” the message that carbon dioxide emissions must be reduced within ten years or a disastrous “tipping point” will be reached.
GW approval animation
http://www.radicalruss.net/blog/images/bushmap-new.gif
Enyo, We won't be back to the moon before Bush is out of the White House.. The presidency is limited to two terms. Also, thats under the impression that he gets re-elected. Being that this is the first thing Bush has done That I like, I am not voting for him.
More of the same, only different.
LINK
That was the mixed message offered by Republicans who want to succeed President Bush, as they gathered over a three-day weekend here for the first White House audition of the 2008 campaign.
NASA cuts in research budget bring regrets, concerns
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascit … 196694.htm
HOUSTON - This Wednesday evening, if all goes according to plan, an American astronaut and a Russian cosmonaut will blast off aboard a Russian rocket headed for the International Space Station, the latest crew in an uninterrupted procession that has kept humans aboard the station for more than five years.
The cover story of this week's TIME magazine is on global warming. The title: "Be Worried. Be Very Worried." I agree with Chris that this is a huge deal, and further evidence that the issue of global warming is nearing a tipping point in public consciousness. The Battle of the Skeptics is over.
http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/3/26/14338/8641/
They lost. Now talk will turn in earnest to what we can do about it.
Scientists object to Bush's moon-Mars missions
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercuryn … 001410.htm
WASHINGTON - Scientists who study the sun, moon, planets and stars on Thursday protested the Bush administration's plan to send humans back to the moon and on to Mars.
They say the president's two-year-old Vision for Space Exploration program is gobbling up billions of dollars that they think could be better used for less expensive projects, including new telescopes and unmanned robots such as the twin rovers on Mars.
Blind in space
Budget cuts threatening satellites that forecast hurricanes, study global warming
LINK
This is dangerous
http://www.flatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a … 04/opinion
Jeb Bush 2008 ?
http://www.slate.com/id/2138031/
As a politician's politician, George W. Bush must have smiled to hear what Republicans who dream of succeeding him had to say in Memphis this weekend. Like any second-term president, he wants the wannabes to run for his third term. Yet Bush understands better than anyone how hard winning a third term can be.
Republicans start search for George Bush's replacement
By Rupert Cornwell in Washington
Published: 13 March 2006
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/ame … 350913.ece
The next US presidential election is still more than two and a half years away. But that didn't stop Republicans scared stiff by George Bush's wretched second-term performance from holding a beauty contest to look for his successor this weekend.
Have you all run the recent numbers yet ? It seems NASA's VSE has a lot of baggage, and some high costs - hence the cuts to JIMO, Dawn and MTO.
Here are some of the big numbers
1Return the Shuttle, launch Japan's Kibo, Finish the ISS...costs 900million-1.2billion per Shuttle flight
2Do research studies, astrobilogy projects and robotic missions around the solar system Cost - more Tens of billions
3One cost cutting method is do a little gamble with outsourcing - ask for private help from the Falcon or alt.spacers or outsource some exploration to nations like India and such
Cost many millions or dollars at perhaps a few billion
4Do the Moon Rockets ( CLV, CEV, CaLV ) and return astronauts to the Moon
Cost 90-110 Billion, then in year 2015-2018 we see the first manned orbital test of full lunar-CEV and where does CEV-LEM2 go ? Build a Lunar colony or plant flags ? Establish a settlement or collect Moon rocks, put another footprint on moon surface ? In year 2022-2025 after CEV-17 or LEM2-17 the American public opinion and Congress ask NASA why spend so much billions only for lunar-rocks, meanwhile Euros, Chinese, Japanese or Russians are either doing stuff on the Redplanet or about to do it
( MarsExpress-5 ? Russia's PhobosGrunt, Shenzhou redplanet ? MarsExpress Sample return ? )
After spending 90-110 Billion NASA finally looks away from the Moon and at serious Mars missions but the American public and Congress are unhappy with their expensive Moon-rocks.
5 NASA will finally use the CEV and Ares-Magnum for other means such as Mars, Jupiter-Europa sample return, spacestations or Neptune. NASA finally looks at Methane Engines Mars-base designs and they will now try and explore the Red Planet with unmanned and do manned Mars missions, CEV finally looks larger. This whole Mars trip will also cost billions more on the VSE but might be much cheaper than the Moon. Other lobby groups want a new 'Shuttle' or cheap Station support vehicle - due to rising costs many want CEV-CaLV retired like the Saturn-V was. NASA finally wakes up and sees it spent to much money and the Moon and will now have to abandon Mars or Europa.
Rough estimate for VSE total $190-320 billion ( give or take the Pork and bureaucracy Baggage )
some recent press on the Shuttle
delayed again
http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2006J … 035340.htm
program should be scrubbed
http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/he … 071957.php
I think people should cut NASA slack for not doing the private thing or tourism - these ideas can only cause NASA more problems. They more or less tried the whole tourist/private thing - it wasn't like Olsen's tourism flight.
Shuttle was a good old craft but already cutting safety corners, and some astronauts new risks were getting tougher but back in 86 they tried putting teacher Christa McAuliffe in Space and we know what happened there. NASA had a heap of ideas Foreigner in Space ( a co-operative effort from Canada, Japan or Europe ), American Journalists in Space, Teachers in Space, they were going to do the teacher-thing again with Barbara Morgan - she seems to have cheated death twice. She was backup for the Teacher in Space Program ( Christa McAuliffe) and she was supposed to come back in 2003 or 2004 but shuttle flights were again grounded after the loss of Columbia.
As for NASA neglecting its international partnerships, we know there have been some budget cuts lately and probelms witht he grounding of Shuttle. The biggest probelm lately is billions spent on ISS by Europe and Japan, and then NASA mmight suddenly say "ok we don't like this anymore, we are going to do something else" Then the Europeans and Japanese start wondering when a new administration comes in will it change its mind once again ? Russia is also wondering when NASA is going to fix the Shuttle or replace it - however Russia has little patience and often plays hardball and or uses NASA's stumbles against it by getting NASA to fork out cash for more Soyuz and Progress. The Japanese are still wondering when their Kibo space lab will be launched. Over the years the ESA have also taken the brunt of NASA's U-turns missons such as NuSTAR delayed, NEAP, FAME getting dumped, JWST delayed, CRAF axed, Ulysses cuts, LISA cut....I think this is why ESA is pushing ahead with its own ideas for Mars such as an MSR or perhaps thinking of using its own launchers to do its own missions to the Moon, Mercury exploration, European space-telescopes or Comet studies.
We do not want reds communist any where! The evil empire is dead lets not bring it back for free health care. Slaude!
You guys can spend billions to go celebrate your 2019 Apollo birthday on the Moon, meanwhile Chinese will have the red planet
The vessel detailed in the broadcast and book does indeed use a fusion engine and prepositioned fuel stocks around the solar system.
IIRC, the Venus manned lander is built alot like a deep sea submarine while the lone astronaut to venture out wears a spacasuit similiar to a deep sea divers suit to withstand the heat and pressure.
Also, the Io lander does have superconducting magnets to help shield the astronauts from the intense radiation.
this BBC tv show sounds more like a scifi episode than something based on fact
What concerns me is that putting this unit into a stand down hold pattern is going to further add to the cost.
good point, I wonder how much extra this is going to add to the budget ?
very good project by NASA
the Euros and Chinese are already doing a joint mission on in this area - its called Cluster/Doublestar, the European DoubleStar project includes seven instruments that are identical to those currently flying on the four ESA Cluster spacecraft, the mission was Launched in December 2003 from China.
It has been rumorred that Bush wanted to give Nasa 1 billion more this year but with that he also wants to get more for the war in Iraq. Part of the increase was to cover the Huricane one two damage.
Shortly Nasa will submit a budget request and though it will take a while to pass it could also be not recieved all to well in congress. Matters could even go real bad if the next launch is still plagued by more foam falling from the ET.
We are now having difficulty pushing ahead without substantially raising the budget, but why all the budget trouble ?
Doesn't NASA and the USA have a heap of money for space and Mars, or is it all getting eaten by the Iraq mess, taxcuts for mega-corporations and money for Hurricane disaster ?
http://www.worldnewsstand.net/history/your_debt.htm
http://www.eriposte.com/economy/indicat … raphic.gif
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
Sadly without a raise in the budget NASA must start getting cut if it wants to keep going on.
Canadians say forget the Moon, let's go to Mars ! ?
http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news
Canada's fourth territory?: As U.S. interest in Mars wanes, the Canadian Space Agency is calling for our scientists and engineers to prepare the concept for an all-Canadian probe of Mars, so it'll be ready if someone comes forward looking for a partner -- or leader -- of a Red Planet exploration.
he head of the European Space Agency (ESA) will come to Russia in April to discuss the agency's participation in a project to build a re-usable space craft, the head of Russia's space agency said Tuesday.
http://en.rian.ru/world/20060307/43984411.html
Anatoly Perminov said leading space agencies from around the globe discussed the issue of participation in the Clipper spacecraft project at a meeting in Florida on March 2.
He has already tried to make some key changes to the VSE or plan-Bush
Visions missions like MSR and TPF look like they will be cut
Hubble will be repaired by Shuttle
Astrobiology and LISA got cut
Griffin will try to close the 2010-2015 gap
CEV Methane engine got dropped
At the moment the ATV does not need to fly there is nothing on the ISS for it to service a progress capsule is perfect for the supply run.
At the moment with the small crew compliment and no science modules the ATV would just be a supply run overkill. ESA just does not have to rush now does it.
A moot point as ATV has had many technical problems with its valve-actuators, solar arrays and flight software, so it can't fly anyway.
Moot point indeed but for ESA which had 98% ready by 2004 they knew they had a lot of time before they where going to be needed.
The Euros should fly it, ISS needs all the support it can get. The Shuttle is still being looked at and it is getting delayed again so groups like ESA, Japan or Russia need to help out NASA with some Russian-Progress and ATV flights.
Mike Griffin will be speaking at the Mars Society Convention in August 06 at Washington
It seems I've to explain myself and my position yet again, just because my name is Yang doesn't mean much except that I'm a fan of China's space-deeds, I enjoy seeing its Shenzhou and I like the future Chinese launchers but I'm not even a Chinese person. I'm not a fan of China's human rights record, nor do I like Mao and I dislike many other Chinese methods but I still like China's space feats and I could be a Korean, an African-Morrocan or a blonde haired fellow with blue eyes living in Canada's Ottawa for all you guys know.
CIclops is a Bush-fan and we all know where GCNRevenger stands, he is a died hard GOP-fan and never said anything good about liberal-Democrats and their space plans. GCNRevenger would love to see NASA flying Nuke-powered craft all over the solar system ( I am not against this idea as long as it is safe ). He also seems to hate Lefties or Greens for cutting his Nuke-wings, although this was more got to do with public-opinion than politics because no sane person wants to be breating Nuclear fallout for the next decade. Some massive changes have been happening to America while the BushJnr Admin have been in power. He first tried to get a rise out fo China like a perverted peeking tom sending his spy-planes to stick his nose in Chinese affairs. An even bigger event occured when Osama in Afghan-land sent his Saudi hijackers crashing into the WTC in NYC, the world felt America's pain and most of the world was united in helping the USA try and destroy the Taliban in Afghanistan.
Finally the world seemed to return to some form of normality but that was until Bush-Jnr started banging the war-drums again and this time his target was Iraq. Bush-Jnr seemed to be getting very annoyed with ideas like the international court, the UN, international weapons inspectors, the Hague, like the admins of Reagan and Daddy-Bush he reversed all former policies on gay-rights, medicare, big-gov, enviornment or Kyoto, Isreal-Arab peace treaties, and made more advances in their favourite areas pushing ideas like military spending, minimal-gov, tax-breaks for the rich, reduction of public services, anti-gay slogans, reduction of funds for public education and de-regulation. Then in 2003 we saw the tragic Columbia fireball as it disintegrated over Texas. Apart from the NASA disater GW seemed to be getting his things done but he had a big stumble when he went into Iraq too quick with a lot of false evidence. With the Russians, Europeans and Chinese doing new things in space and Shuttle grounded, Bush tried to comfort America's space-people and science-fans by doing a Kennedy impression but rather than giving NASA a good JFK vision he just dusted off some old grandiose NASA projects with the GOP stamp on them.
The Bush Cheney admin had started to greatly weaken before the election of 2004, Kerry and Edwards seemed to have a lot in their favour. The economy was weak, the dollar was becoming worthless, Iraq was turning into a disater and seemed to be a war waged for invisible WMDs or perhaps to settle an old score between Saddam and Daddy-Bush dynasty and ever since his VSE speech Bush seemed to have totally forgotten the word 'NASA'. The VSE started to get dim, the US was facing a large deficit, the dollar was poor, homeless numbers were bad, the USA had record debt levels so many NASA programs saw cuts, Kerry on the other hand was willing to talk about the Moon, NASA and Mars - he said he supported Space but the USA must also balance its books and Kerry's plans seemed ok but not great. However the Bush-Cheney made a big comeback with ideas on science and social issues such as stem-cells, gay-weddings, creationism, and the shocking social issues such as janet jackson's boobs....the Deep-south, evangelicas and middle America loved these ideas so Bush and Cheney were back and the grandiose NASA vision with the GOP stamp would be pushed ahead again or at least be outsourced to India.
The Bush-Cheney admin have also resurrected many Nixon and Reagan era ideas such as opposing the greens, containment of communists, defeating the leftists and pushing down socialists or liberals. There is now huge opposition to United States foreign policy, the US enjoyed some early advances with the far-right conservatives of Europe but now there is trouble with Spanish and Polish having a change of mind and much of Europe now going left. France and Russia were the most unhappy and the Canadians have also great opposed Rummy's Starwars ideology. Most of Latin-America has now gone left while the USA is struggling to keep friends. The Russians have a growing economy, the EU and its Euro are doing well with the Euro zone expanding as the years go on, the Europeans also like the idea of the Kyoto Protocol. Europe has become an economic superpower while the Chinese are growing rapidly. The Europeans have been thinking of setting up a giant army like China or the USSR had - this would be called the european rapid reaction force. Recently the French and Germans were thinking of selling arms to China, and a split between European matters and US matters came even bigger when the Pentagon made a threat that it may shoot down the ESA's network of GPS-Galileo satellites.
Right now there is conflict around the world and USA's troops are streched and weakened - a third world war may be coming, and this war will be bigger than any other. Unlike Worldwar-2 where the US had chosen to fight with an Alliance of Canadians, De Gaul, Churchill, Aussies, Chinese, Russians... this time USA seems to have chosen the wrong side and make an alliance with right-wing conservative nations and people such as India, African nations, John Howard, TonyBlair, Unitedstates-of-Afghanistan, Pakistan against liberal, against socialist, Russian, Chinese or European intrests...the only thing is the British and Australians seem to be getting tired of Bush and Chirac and Blair may respond by hitting back at Bush with missiles if the USA attacks European satellites, much of Asia and almost the whole of Latin America seens to have drifted to the left side. A US attack on the EUs Galileo satellites would be a dire mistake by the Conservative-Republican rulers, the EU is already becoming an economic superpower and each European country is well equipped with a powerful army and military aircraft. The White House admin are in serious difficulty they are now having trouble struggling with the costs of the Iraq war, the pension system going to the dogs, US ports getting sold to the Arab world, social security getting looted and the scandal of Hurricane Katrina it is now unlikely to find billions more for space travel. GCNRevenger I love how you try to play the old Abe 'race-card' should I remind you of the Conservative GOP's policy on race ? Try to remember that the Republican party have changed quiet a bit since the days of Abraham Lincoln, although they still have a few token African-Americans on their team but AA-groups, Jesse Jackons and Civil rights groups have called these people wolves in sheeps clothing. The Republican party have done a big U-turn on liberal policy since the days of Abe while the Democrat party have done a big reversal on their ideas for slavery and conservative plans during the civil war - and if you're looking for liberal today then you gotta go democrat. The GOP's recent policy on race is really bad : Cheney wanted Mandela back in jail, Bush doesn't seem to care for the human rights of Asians or Arabs, Barbara calls gay marriage disgusting, flying of confederate flags, Cheney supported the Aparthied and attends CCC ( uptown Klan ) gatherings, minorities and poor Americans starved to death during Katrina and while people begged for Huricane aid Bush played tunes on Gee-tar-One.
http://soundroots.org/uploaded_images/b … 779638.jpg
As for the NASA vision - let's just see how far it goes but breaking up federal programs and outsourcing was always part of the GOP's plan.
GNC:
Well, I wouldn't expect an ion tug would be "magic" - I presume it isn't impossible to refuel such a thing?I don't even know if it's a solution - just how much fuel mass might it save, per cargo trip to the moon?
You'd save huge money the only trouble is that alternate-propulsion has its limits today.
You still need lots of rocket fuel to get from Earth's ground up into Earth orbit like LEO, then when you've been lifted you can start using your ion-drive but when you're in Lunar orbit you still need rocket fuel to help your Lunar-lander.
The Europeans have been testing this method of travel - their current moon mission is called Smart-1 ( check out the unmanned thread section of newmars )
Was Huygens outsourcing?
Yes the Cassini-Huygens was outsourcing or offshoreing or whatever you American guys call it. The difference with outsourcing to Europe or doing joint missions with places Russia, Japan or Canada is that these guys actually know a thing or two about space-exploration unlike those other third world nations with useless scud missile launch pads. Bush is now quickly becoming a lame Duck and even the Republicans are moving away from him, he has started to make too many mistakes his policy on outsourcing, the eavesdropping scandals, Iraq fallout, TomDelay-Cheney fiascos, Katrina mess. Another huge problem is that Bush has few friends on the international level, they are isolated from Canada, relations with Brazil have gone backward, relations with European nations like France an all time low, relations with Russia aren't great either, even British citizens who voted for the Loyal Blair are getting tried of the Iraq mess. As for GW's vision for NASA, it could all fall apart by the time the next election comes.
Keep in mind that the only guy who tried to his best for NASA is long dead, JFK is this famous NASA legend. Kennedy was way ahead of his time and gave space-fans a great thing and every other President ( both Republican and Democrat ) have been a failure to NASA's space exploration needs.
President Kennedy could see years ahead of his time, he knew how to get America ahead in Space and even during the height of the cold-war he still made NASA's vision as non-partisan as possible. Clinton and Carter had a policy that caused a heap of probelms at NASA and they all stuck their stupid political party onto the missions : Carter’s UFO ideas, the AlGore-Sat...The Reagan and Bush-Snr Admin also filled NASA with political nonsense and rubbish plans : Ideas like Spacetrucking the Shuttle to the spacestations like MIR, fantasy Starwars plans, a Mars plan was never really going to get off the ground.
Some people however are really sceptical of the VSE and plan-Bush, some think of it as a sneaky tactic by giving NASA too many herculean tasks and set NASA up for an even bigger fall. Some sceptics of Bush's VSE think it is a cunning game to end NASA much like Tricky-Dicky's admin weighed ending the space exploration for good. However would Bush really do this to NASA or could he ? Can GW finish what Nixon started - Bush never cared much for science before his VSE talk except for perhaps his ideas like stem-cells, climate-change and creationism. After the Shuttle broke up over Texas, and later with the Chinese, Europeans and Russia pushing ahead George Bush Jnr was then forced to do something about space for a change. Some people think his VSE is just a big trick give NASA too many grandiose and expensive goals and set it up for an even bigger gall, some see plan-Bush as a cunning game to end exploration. Remember that part of the Bush and GOP policy is that things like government organizations, Medi-care, fed bodies and big-government are bad while other things like no-bid contracts in foregin lands, privatization-policies, corporations, and outsourcing are good.
India is one of those treacherous ally's that will shake your hand with one arm but stab you in the back with another, the Indians can never be frank or straight with America unlike the Russians or French who are always blunt with the USA. India isn't sitting in a unique positon, America has had many of these types of treacherous so-called friends before : Saudia Arabia, Venezulea, Egypt, Iran...the list goes on and on. Just because India has a few good philosophers or a few good mathematicians doesn't really mean squat ! The Persians, Aztecs, Greeks, Mayans, ancient Chinese also knew a thing or two about geometry and numbers but does that mean we should suddenly outsource everything NASA to Manchu Picchu because these guys knew a thing or two about numbers - of course we should not ! India is one of those pseudo democracies that enjoys the best crimes of many past regimes and current dictatorships. India has failed to modernise, have huge social problems like slavery corruption, a cast system, they also have a massive infrastructural deficit. India have already shown their militant intent when Coldwar Indian flyboys in low-tech Russian defeated the USA in joint excercises - meaning they wont be buying 'MadeinAmerica' anytime soon. India has also been something of a Cold-war enemy of the USA, 90% percent of its military supplies come from former Soviet areas and they used this equipment to destroy American made planes and hardware. Outsourcing NASA to India is a totally stupid idea, it gives away jobs and gives India free-technology. However Bush-Jnr has been in India to defend outsourcing. Bush has said that outsourcing the recent robotic Lunar mission will be a major advance for more space co-operation and do activities critical to GW's Vision for Space Exploration. Bush-Jnr will also expand NASA outsourcing to areas such as exploration, satellite nav and earth science.
There is however some good news and that great thing is Michael D Griffin. He is a man who understands NASA's troubles and has a skill in sweet talking both the Democrat and Republican camp. Griffin has some great ability, he'll do his best to go through each of the herculean goals in Plan-Bush and see if they are really credible, Griffin will go through every mission and check these VSE tasks one-by-one and determine which ones are do-able. Michael D Griffin is the best thing to happen NASA for these past years
We're not going to get past the "NIH" problem, because:
-It will still be made in Russia, which would still have veto power over our space program as a weapon.
-It will still be a Russian engine, even if its built here, with the associated image & political damage to NASA.
-NASA needs the engine fast, Russia may not even be able to build them soon, much less be validated in time.
-If Congress permits NASA to abandon SSME, then NASA should just use J-2S and RS-68; forget RD-0120.
The J-2S engine coupled with the bigger five segment booster is a viable alternative to SSME for the CEV launcher, especially since NASA was planning on developing both engines later anyway. The RS-68, with its superior thrust and comperable Isp at sea level, will not cause a signifigant reduction in payload of the big HLLV either, and is available off-she-shelf, no modification required.
Edit: Looking more into how complicated the SSME is, I think abandoning it entirely is looking like a better deal by the minute.
I see your point
good for Europe, I liked some of the ESA's manned ideas but they are stuck having to hitch a ride from the Russians and Americans.
thanks for that !
It's a fact that NASA is the greatest space agency that ever existed so NASA will always have more to offer other Space Agency's in joint co-operative missions. The United States has more to give them when compared to the amount that they or other space groups offer the NASA, so NASA often loses out because they gain more. However I doubt very much that the Russians or Europeans ever needed any real help from NASA to get their any of their missions going. Remember firstly that Russia and Europe have had some massive scientists and a history of inventors way before NASA existed and a history that would make people like Benjamin Franklin and Robert Goddard seem ordinary. Europe and Russia have produced people like Newton, DaVinci, Dmitri Mendeleev, Einstein, Copernicus, VonBraun, Milankovitch, Plato, Darwin, Hertz, Hawking, Konstantin Tsiolkovsky, Herschel...( I don't time to write a list that could take ages )
NASA can't go all over the Galaxy and do everything, it gets stuck for time or sometimes mission prices starting to spiral out of control. Then NASA are forced to do joint-missions but there are very few Space agency's that have something great to offer NASA. Russia could be a good partner for the Moon, they built Energia and have been in Space for double the time NASA has, China is starting to pass Japan's economy and technology by building up great infrastructure could become a good help ( however USA and China are also likley to become Space rivals ). Canada does good robotics and Europe have very good technology and wisdom to offer NASA, they have built many ESA space telescopes, building robot spacecraft, the Europeans are testing new forms of propulsion and doing extra solar planet missions.
Partnerships with anyone else are completely worthless - and outsourcing NASA to India is just dumb - its just like outsourcing to any nation with a scud missile launch pad. Horrible places like Iran, India, NorthKorea or Pakistan not only are a political mess or enemy-states but they also have nothing worthwhile to give the USA, if NASA has to outsource it should do joint missions with people who actually know something about space-exploration.
