New Mars Forums

Alright, two brief comments.

Btw free and open? A minute ago you and Cobra were talking about stopping immigrantion and forcing people to either assimilate or get deported. Weird contradiction

See Treb's reply. I was not suggesting we stop immigration. I am suggesting that countries should control immigration to prevent their own demise and I maintain that no country has an obligation to let anyone in. If a representative sovereign state chooses to not admit anyone else, their call.

But the dude who got killed was a bit of an idiot. He was very Anti-Religon. Having naked women wear sentences from the Quran? I'm suprised that he didn't die earlier for that stupid and foolish act. He was asking for trouble and he got it.

Dude, that's akin to saying to a rape victim "you were asking for it, dressing like that."

Think about your statement and how screwy it really is. You may have inadvertantly illustrated part of the point of this thread.

Well i got this idea from Star Trek.

*Interesting that you mention ST.  The second I saw this subject line, an episode from the original Star Trek came to mind:  The Trouble with Tribbles, where that Klingon guy insulted The Enterprise in front of Mr. Scott, calling it "a garbage stow."  (I think that word was "stow" anyway; has been awhile since I've seen that episode and Google is no help).

Hopefully there'll be no fistfights over booze-joint tables, though...    :laugh:

Give ISS the MER treatment.  Abandon it, let it burn up on re-entry over the middle of the ocean.

Provided all Tribbles are safely evacuated first, of course.   :;): 

--Cindy

Hi Smurf975.  The Atlantis legend doesn't have to be true at all, you're right. But the legend of the Trojan War was assumed to be all myth and no substance too because, for a start, there was no Troy! Then Schliemann discovered Troy's ruins, including the remains of the "topless towers of Ilium", just as the legends described them.
    Now, it's believed that the old stories were probably based on reality, though embellished somewhat for theatrical effect. It's unlikely, for example, that any country of the day could have "launched a thousand ships" as part of a seaborne military campaign!
    It was difficult enough to find material evidence of the Trojan War, even though it happened 'only' about 3000 years ago and the land masses on which it occurred are still essentially unchanged. What hope do we have of finding the remains of Atlantis, 11,000 years old, on a continental land mass which was swallowed up by the sea and no longer exists?!
    All I was trying to say was that it may be possible Atlantis really did exist out in the Atlantic Ocean and that the Mid-Atlantic-Ridge is as good a place as any to look for it.
                                             

Hi Grypd.
    I don't know that the Canary Islands have any direct link with legendary Atlantis at all, except perhaps in as much as the volcanic power that might have given rise to Atlantis, and then doomed it, is also responsible for the instability of the Canaries today.
    And the waves I was talking about are sheer supposition; there's no actual evidence for them, as far as I know. I just wondered whether anyone here knew of any such evidence, that's all.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050712/ap_ … an_gogh]To murder victim's mother:  "I don't feel your pain."

*And he admits he'd do it again, if given the chance.

"I can't feel for you because I think you're a nonbeliever," he said.

He preaches that anyone who thinks differently can be killed ...

Some persons in the courtroom stood up, stunned by his statements.  Why the surprise?  That he openly admitted it or that he feels that way to begin with?

--Cindy

http://www.livescience.com/animalworld/ … s.html]The critters humans REALLY evolved from...

*Nearly 1500 sheep in Turkey followed the lead of a sheep who jumped off a cliff.  450 dead.  The remaining sheep were saved, though:

Those who jumped later were saved as the pile got higher, cushioning the fall

::shakes head::  I wonder what in the world possessed that first sheep?  What prompted it to that behavior?

Poor folks in the area are financially devastated as a result.  How awful to be powerless to stop it.  :-\

--Cindy

Well your idea was implemented by the Nazi and is genocide. Which was completely diffrent from what i said. I said that unless we want to strip the freedom women have we shouldn't be complain about the low birth rate in Europe.

Actually it was not the Nazis who invented the idea of racial seperation this is a very victorian idea.

And incidentally well into the 1960s Sweden used to sterilise women who gave birth out of childhood and the children of those women. It also used to sterilise the mentally ill too. I really wish I was joking.

Most immigrants assimilate. But it takes time and in the process they affect the culture around them as well. If too many are taken in and they assimilate too slowly the culture erodes. In the case of European culture eroding to Middle Eastern and African culture, I have no problem saying that I think it's a profound loss for humanity. I catch alot of flack for that, but there it is.

No population can reasonably be expected to yield to the cultural norms of immigrants.

Ooh, make the Nazi comparison and use the line specifically labeled for out-of-context quoting in the same sentence.

For extra clarity, I don't mean it but it's not joke. It's merely one of many viable options for dealing with the issue, though one to which I do not subscribe. It's purpose is to illustrate, in context with the other examples, that your "take freedom from women or shut up about it" answer is lacking a full grasp of the issue.

I'm probably coming across a little hostile in text here, again that isn't my intent. I'm not a racist nor I am making any personal attacks, just arguing a position.

It seems to me everyone complains about "Americanisation", even some people in America.

It's the logical conclusion of a documented continent-wide trend.

Numerous examples have been mentioned previously in the thread if I recall correctly, but they generally center around the documented fact that the Muslim birthrate in Europe is roughly three times higher than the native birthrate. That kind of volume can't be effectively assimilated and therefore the native culture gets swamped. As that plays out, the borders become as artificial and meaningless as those in the MidEast. Lines on a map, nothing more.

The native Europeans will only be pushed so far. Mark my words, it's going to get ugly.

When a native sees their country declining and can tie it directly in some aspect to the influx of people from elsewhere they get very defensive and I can't blame them for doing so.

They could force immigrants to assimilate culturally or deport them, problem solved.

If they really wanted to get sneaky they could sterilize immigrants with "vaccines" to get one generation of cheap labor as needed.

Many European countries are rapidly ceasing to be "nations" in the sense they once were, meaning confined groups of people sharing a common culture, language and heritage.

Instead they are becoming a hodgepodge of mutually exclusive ethnic and cultural factions with no real intent to blend contained within a series of now-meaningless borders. For the immigrants this may be all well and good, but the Europeans themselves are watching their homelands metamorphose into something alien and in almost every respect less desireable.

Their huge growth does come from Islamic countries - the birth rates are comparatively high there, and people more or less inherit their religion (most people are not converts). The Christian core has either stable populations or shrinking ones (US, Europe, Russia). If you thought about it for a second and applied some common sense, you'd realize that your numbers suggest that - Islam's growth in numbers is slightly higher than natural increase.

How long can China keep its cheap labor force cheap, with increasing wealth? Why do you worry about China, which faces a variety of major crises - the demographic one of too few children to too many adults (ironic, considering it's China, but One-Child policy leaves a stiff bill for the children!) and too much bad debt? Why not worry about India, which will have a larger population in thirty years or so and is getting just as much investment? Why not worry about the US, which is increasing in population fastest among the industrialized nations, and should more than double in size over the next century? Why don't you?

It's because China is in the news, dummy. Personally, I think it's a shadow of old racism not quite forgotten - a new softer variant of the 'yellow peril'.

t's because China is in the news, dummy. Personally, I think it's a shadow of old racism not quite forgotten - a new softer variant of the 'yellow peril'.

That fails the laugh test. You guys couldn't handle a little mess in your own back yard (Serbia) and need the US to provide logistics for force projection overseas.

I've pointed out that Iraq has gotten vastly better over a year, and the insurgents have been downgraded from threat to nusiance. A lethal nuisance, granted, but one that isn't strong enough to change reality on the ground anymore. And yeah, our troops are dying. It would take about 70 more years of this to match Vietnam casualties, though, at the average (not recent) rate of death.

As for our recent deficits, they've been caused by the inability of the Bush government to resist spending money on anything. That comes from massive domestic spending, not massive overseas spending. The US government has literally trillions of dollars (2.2 or thereabouts) to play with in its spending - the old joke in Washington is "A billion here, a billion there, soon you're starting to talk about real money!" Much like the casualty rate, the expense of running a war in Iraq will only frighten people who don't realize the context.

As for what planet I live on - I do live on Earth, the real Earth, dealing in real facts. You would be the one living on "Planet Perception".

The problem of planting trees is not so much that they can not grow in the desert but it is one of water supply, nutrients for good growth and the blistering temperatures. If one uses high altitude balloons that were large in size or just placed lots of them over this area to effect a temperature change a new weather pattern would start. Supplement that with the planting and a progressive stepped approach it just may work. Reduce the number of sun blocker balloons as time goes on to aid with temperature control.

One could possibly make these balloons with solar cells on the top, add some steering capability and maybe an anchor line or tether to allow for free energy to supplement to process to be brought to the ground.

Your right about the water supply but if we plant enough trees it should create a cycle where the shade cools the area and more moisture will arrive. With luck eventually and enough plant life you create a full rain cycle.

North Africa used to have this but the depredations of man in cutting the trees down to give the cities growing there (Carthage, Roman) fuel and extra food area changed the enviroment to what is now desert or semi desert.

Anyway, no thanks.  I want to see my meteor showers, the Milky Way in the summer, and "just" an ordinary dark night sky when the Moon is at new phase or is at minimums of waxing and waning.