New Mars Forums

I was referring to in terms of near term military applications, in an us vs. them mind set.

You do make a very interesting point however that I didn't think of, I don't think it will be necessarily valid in space (I'd guess Americans in space will be just as inclined to start families as Chinese in space) but it could come into play very seriously here on Earth, the western world has low and declining birthrates and in many parts of Europe are experience negative population growth. This would be true here except for immigration. We could be sowing the seeds of our own unmaking just by one or no children familes. Isn't one of the main tenets of evolution expand or die?

In any event I still believe that the US will take the lead in space development and colonization. If nothing else we should be motivated to beat the Chinese and others, and eventually to claim and defend territory for miners and settlers. Once we have cheap access to space I see the settlement of near space to happen very analogously to the American west (well sans the complication of an indigenous population)

In reguard to their new fighter, well as far as any home grown (read as Russo Chinese hybrid) I am seriously unimpressed by what I have seen. Their flight control and combat management systems are laughable, using an archaic system they copied from Dassault. They have serious issues with their engines, both in their efficiency and in their metallurgy.

As far as Chinese space control.....

All I'm going to say is space warfare has been the number one priority for us since the late 90s, we're spending about 120 billion a year on it all said and done, and only a fraction of that is in the 'white' world. I agree that a war with the PRC is in the cards, but I think they highly overestimate the effectiveness of their 'warrior spirit'. Let's keep in mind the Japanese thought that one of their soldiers was the equal of five of ours.

As far as the 'decline' of America I find that a moot point. We finally have leaders that recognize the importance of the military, and especially R and D. Our economy is second to none and is the most robust and fastest growing in the western world. We continue to produce and develop science and technology because of our universities, national labs, and space program. We are not on the eve of the end of the American Hegeonomy; we are merely at its dawn.

As far as the 'illiterate frat boys' comment, look up Bush’s credentials; if you still think he is unintelligent you are simply kidding yourself.

I think it's really an odd statement to say that the war or defense spending is the reason we "can't afford" an advanced space program or national lab projects like our own large scale tokomak. NASA gets about 0.7% of the federal budget, the national labs get about 0.67%. That's small change compared to the vast majority of worthless and pork barrle social programs that are in the budget (53% last time I looked) or the militaries budget of about 45%. (although one could argue that at least the USAF/Navy side of that house is driving towards the space goal as it was the military that developed the EELV and is working on some really advanced systems, both for launch and power. A 200 kilowatt fission reactor developed to power space based rail guns and lasers for the SDIO and later STRATCOM would come in pretty handy for H2M if it got declassifed. Of we won't know specifics of the systems for many year until they are declassified but they are out there.

Point being there is more then enough room in the budget for defense and space, and in many cases they go hand in hand. Space is the new ocean, and like the ocean going powers of the previous century whoever controls the ocean controls what goes on in the world. That's why space control, acess, and strike (SCAS) is the biggest priority now of USSTRATCOM and DARPA.

I said NASA. I think that the current administration has very little stomach for globalism, plus for valid reasons or not many of people view the pre-Columbia ISS delays on the Russians.

I agree with this stance, I think that our exploration of the next new world should be an American (the British can come too) affair. Ideally I would like to see private industry step up to the plate, but I don't think that is in the cards at this juncture. I also think a good motivator for a continuing program is if we dumped the space treaty so that the driving ethos of the Mars program would not be 'we came in peace for all mankind' but 'We claim this next new world for the United States'. I know I'm sure I will be flame for being a jingoist or what-have-you, but every new frontier has been conquer by national expansion because that's what offers incentive, resources, territory, prestige. Plus, the Chinese haven’t signed the space treaty, and in the long run I really, really don't want to see Mars under the banner of the PRC. (Or the UN for that matter)

You make an excelent point. Not only would extra segments get around the Max-Q problem but I suspect it would be a much simpler and cheaper project then modifying the external tank and the associated fuel lines for the engine pod.