New Mars Forums

A thought on the airbags, habitats whatever...

Why don't you wrap (don't be too quick to discount) the airbags around the ship. Make them so that they can be 'unzipped' from around the craft. They can serve as extra protection on the trip and then used (again) as the habitats etc.

Don't laugh, it might work?

PLIND ???

Thanks for the reply GCNRevenger.

Does that mean that a dome on the surface of Mars intended for growing food etc is 2 ' thick? That's going to create a challenge?

Is there no argument for using helium/hydrogen for initial lift? Doesn't lifting all that weight up several miles buy us anything? How high would a hydrogen baloon reach before topping out?

Cheers,

PLIND

I feel a little hesitant to add to this thread, some heated comments in some of the replies.

However, I must add a few thoughts as I would dearly love to see someone from the planet heading for Mars.

It's an unfortunate time for the Mars endeavour, US is stretched too thin with the wars and security concerns (just or unjust wars as that may be). The chinese have a big advantage, they don't seem to get entangled in any outside affairs. That's not to say that the chinese have the right attitude but that is an advantage. If they plan to go to Mars they will do it according to their time schedule, regardless of anyone else's plans. In addition, I believe, they are more willing to gamble (for good or bad) then anyone else.
If a plan was in the works where, again this is my opinion, the chances of a successful outcome were 70%, NASA wouldn't touch it whereas the chinese probably would go for it? This is certainly debatable but that is how I see it. The chinese will trod forward and eventually get to Mars. If it is before or after the US is of no consequence to them. I don't think the US will get to Mars until they HAVE TO (the chinese have a spacecraft on the launchpad, ready to go)!

There's no need to dump on me, this is just my opinion. If the rovers discover lakes of platinum, humans will be exploring Mars within ten years. That's just the way it is.

One final comment. There's an incident in history that may apply here. Scott vs Amundsen in 1912 on a journey to the South Pole. Scott's team had heavier, more robust equipment. More supplies, had been planning longer etc, etc. Amundsen travelled very light (and thereby much quicker). The approach taken by Amundsen appeared riskier then Scott, however, Amundsen won out (got there first) because they travelled fast and light, got back fast as well (travelled with minimum supplies). Scott and his party perished. Nasa appears to be taking the Scott approach, try to cover all possible scenerios, have more supplies then you need , bigger, hardier crafts etc. They may end up taking too long to get to Mars, who knows?

Cheers,

PLIND ???

I'd like to add an additional comment, just to clarify my initial idea.

The laser (or it looks like it would more appropraietly be a microwave) would be integral to the spacecraft. The solar panels would power the device. The microwave generator would essentially be a long boom extending out from the spacecraft (not a remote beam of energy). The boom would point back to the 'dish' of the spacecraft. The craft would blast itself around, hope you understand my meaning.
Accuracy would not be an issue. When you want to slow down you simply spin the ship around and 'blast' the reactive dish until you have slowed down to the desired speed.

Finally, my idea in regards to this technology was for the interplanetary trip. We could use any other technology to get out of Earth orbit. This technology would keep the craft very light.

For added safety we could have several dishes and several microwave generators on the craft for fault tolerance.

Thanks.

PLIND

OK, I'll concede that, as far as economics goes, we don't gain that much. However, what about the experience of living on the moon surface, obtaining and utilizing surface material in preparation for what will take place on Mars?
The moon would be the Mars test bed. The Lunar pioneers would have to overcome and deal with the majority of challenges that the Martian pioneers will have to deal with. As part of that they need to have goals, tasks, achievements. Perfecting a fuel developed from Lunar material plus,radiation protection etc, plus other essentials might be what is needed?

Plus, what about the fact that material could be 'fired' up to the orbiting craft as opposed to launched from Earth?

PLIND

Hello Folks,
I have been snooping around various martian topics. I'd like to bounce off an few ideas and see what all of the chemists out there have to say (sorry, no chemist here).
OK, so for a number of reasons I believe we have to spend at least a decade (unfortunately) in the initial stages on the moon. Here's what I would propose.
The moon has to be central (even though I am as impatient to see us head for Mars as anybody) to the first stage
of getting to Mars. With all the discussions surrounding cost, possible overruns etc.
I would suggest that the vast majority of materials have to come from the Moon. Perhaps the very spacecrafts that are going to head out to Mars begin their journey circling the moon, gathering material for fuel, water, possibly other material (manufactured by the lunar pioneers) for radiation protection, whatever? Wickman Spacecraft, for example, have articles that I recently read regarding Lunar fuel (aluminum/LOX) and a Martian rocket based on CO2 and magnesium. These fuels (LOX is the challenge) could be obtained in vast quantities from the moon and mars respectively ([http://www.space-rockets.com/moon1.html]www.space-rockets.com/moon1.html).
After enough material etc is in place on the orbiting spacecraft then the astronauts (based on the moon) start living on the spacecraft (still circling above the moon surface) to confirm that all of the essentials are available for an extended journey. One, maybe two, years later the bugs are ironed out and the craft is ready to leave orbit and head for Mars. At that point there should be ample confidence and experience to expect a successful trip. By this time the astronauts have been living on the craft for more then a year, a six or eight month journey to Mars would not be all that much more demanding then what they've already been through.?? Because the Mars rockets uses CO2 the amount of material that has to be carted to Mars is much less. To further mitigate failure I would also suggest sending off one or two storage type crafts during the moon phase so that they would be onsite (orbiting Mars, perhaps a landing craft is manufacturing the new fuel etc) with ample supplies.

I see the biggest concern of all as the survival of the astronauts from radiation? That's another discussion.

I do not see why a plan like this could not succeed within 20 years. Now, please go easy on me folks, I am not a chemist just a space exploration enthusiast. What's wrong with this plan?

Look forward to your responses, thanks.

PLIND

There is one argument for having cyclers in the very early stages of Mars exploration. They could be used very much like oasis are used in the dessert. Many years before the astronauts get headed for Mars we could have a number (say five for example) of these cyclers at different locations between Earth and Mars. Two would be cruising from Earth to Mars, two more would be headed back and one (for good measure) would be circling Mars.
The astronauts could hook up to these 'drive ins' on their way to/from Mars. Because they have been in motion for years they could be travelling at very high speed. In addition, because we have been dropping off materials as they pass Earth they would be stock full of goodies. Finally, they would be, or could be, excellant shelters against the high radiation threat.
I see cyclers as an essential part of getting humans to Mars, refreshed and alive.

What do you think?

Thanks for the reply.
Actually, this material was not a propellant. It was some type of material that reacted to the laser, it did not burn or explode as propellant do. That was the beauty of it.
I do not recall how quickly it's reactive properties exhausted, that's one of the things I was curios about.

since the moon is being used as a preliminary step, I was wondering if the materials there could used as a component of some sort of magnetic field solution? Since the field will need to be significant, could we make use of the lunar material. Could get a large amount of material to a orbiting mars craft from the moon a lot easier then earth.