New Mars Forums

Indeed, as others have noted, Europe is a very different place.  In America, our closest neighbors and we have hardly been warlike with one another.  Other than a very brief and decisive war with Mexico in the middle of the 19th century, we haven't been at war with the few countries that surround us.
In Europe, however, some of these countries have been at one another's throats as recently as fifteen years ago.  More wars -- influential and pointlessly trivial alike -- have occurred between France and Germany, in whatever form these nations took, than anywhere else in the Western World.  The blood of the dead soaks the ground for over a millenium and a half.  And two of the most infamous and terrible dictators, Napoleon and Hitler, came respectively from the twain European giants.

It is an indescribable miracle that these two countries in the modern day get along politically, even to form an alliance against the rest of Europe.  And the price is national pride, at least in Germany's case.  The teutonic nation is forever branded with a scarlet A, for Adolf.  The French tend to harp on the Germans any chance they get, and ostrocize anything remotely resembling a sense of national pride.

That's a perfect example, and totally true; you will get arrested if you sing the German national anthem (which is about "Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit", Unity and Justice and Freedom).  Germany is like the uncool kid who just wants to fit in, and will do anything to change his outward appearance, even sacrifice his own dignity to be a part of the crowd.

And they deeply, deeply hate the French for this.  They mask it on the fa?ade of it, but talking with almost any German for a few hours, it becomes painfully clear how wounded the Germans all feel.  But despite how tremendous their anger, all their willpower is gone.  They'll never start another war, and have entirely resigned themselves to self-loathing for the rest of their days.

But to say that all European nations would find our patriotism strange is quite untrue.  Look at France.  They have military parades on Christmas.  They have a "National Day" celebrating 'their victory over the Germans in World War I', rather ironically.
These are not a people with a very good sense of historical memory.  Immutable facts such as the intrinsic and certainly heroic rescue of their self-fragmented nation by thousands of American lives laid down at their shores and in their vinyards seems to escape their recollection as they deface the graves of those very men just because they disagree with the politics of those men's decendents.  Anything that hints of French inferiority to anything is anathema, or untrue.  (These are vast generalizations, but one can find them easily in the pages of Le Figaro or Le Monde, and quite openly expressed.)
Contrast this supremely nationalistic attitude (more severe than the American one by far) with that of Germany's, which remembers everything wrong it ever did and feels as if it constantly has to apologize for if every moment of every day, while secretly harboring profoundest angst and loathing.

I'm very glad I live here.  I think, if any Western country may, the United States has justification in its nationalism.  Systematically saving both hemispheres of the world (which I remark candidly and without exaggeration) is quite a feat.  Moreover, America hasn't ever tried to conquer the world.  I think Finnland and Canada are the only other Western countries that can say the same.  That's a pretty good record.
No wonder we salute the flag; the flag which represented the very first true sense of Freedom in the entire world's history to exist on a national level, which thusly spread to all the globe's corners like a wondrous disease; the flag which was raised in the name of Liberty for any man who lived, no matter what color his skin was; the flag that led the liberation of a continent and saved an entire race of people from extermination; the flag that briefly stood above the fallen flag of the murderous Baathist regime of Iraq, before surrendering itself to the true people's Iraqi flag.
These sanguine, argent stripes and silver, cerulean stars have been a lot of places in the world: Japan, Malaysia, Australia, Italy, China, Vietnam, France, Korea, Britain, Spain, Germany, the Philipines, Austria, and even on the Moon.  And, indeed, they have in all these places represented "peace, for all Mankind."

That is what I salute.  And so does any other American, wittingly or not.  It is an emblem of the right to live, happily and in liberty.  Any notion, European or otherwise, that an American hailing such liberal, abstract idealism as Freedom and Happiness is in any way indicative of "totalitarianism" or "imperialism" is so oxymoronic, it isn't even laughable.  For all the terror, for all the destruction, for all the horrible, horrible death that Europeans have in their history caused the world over, that Europeans would insult the United States because we pride ourselves in not ever being a part of those truly imperial massacres, just comes off as petty jealousy.

But despite what general attidues exist in their psyches, I love them all.  I really, really do; Europe is so wondrous and beautiful, and I love how they delightfully get along now, and that they (though some of them rarely) act in the name of peace and liberty, just as their radical philosophers once taught us.  Horray for Europeans! say I.  I wouldn't be learning French, Italian, German, Finnish, Spanish, Gaelic, Latin, and Greek if I didn't adore them just a li'l.  I accept their misguided blunders as quaint, just as I'm sure they accept my flag-saluting as very endearing.  And if not endearing, then they have the right to think whatever they want to think.  But that doesn't mean I don't have the right to laugh at them right back.

*Chuckles quietly.* Very good point.

Well said, Cindy.

At first I was greatly disappointed, but maybe Zubrin got through to him after all.  That sounds like Mars Direct.

Still, I hope Congress insists on Zubrin communicating directly with Bush.  That's all that needs to happen.

Yarr!!

Well, as long as we're promoting racial stereotypes, let me advocate my own Italian blood. *Cracks his nuckles cerimoniously.*

Firstly, nearly every famous explorer, from Columbus to Vespucci, Verranzzano to Cabot, was extremely Italian.  Therefore it is only fitting that the new explorers be imported from the motherland and trained for Martian expeditions this instant.

Secondly, Italians are incredibly passionate, dedicated as the ceaseless lovers they are in every venture they undertake.  They are, however, also quite fickle and unfaithful, and are more likely to steer the ship to Luna or Venus or some other celestial beauty to hear her siren call.

And unfortunately, Italians get quite lonely after being away from their beauteous homeland after too long, for not even the striking Martian scape is adequate to charm them from their Italia bellissima.  We're also notorious at making horribly bad jokes.

And as for me Irish side; your standard Hibernian is rather used to discomfort and cramptness and livin' on naught but pototatos as long as he can choke 'em down.  As tragedy on the Martian surface is a must, no other but a humble Irishman could do better to mourn the crew once [http://www.leoslyrics.com/listlyrics.ph … m6gJ9nQ%3D]everybody's died.  And as far as cold and dark goes, nowhere's more inhospitable than emerald ?ire.

And now that we've all (at least I've) made fools of ourselves for actually suggesting that Armageddon had the right idea for enlisting incompitent oil riggers at the very last second to save the world, we may possibly realize that racial chauvinism and overblown stereotypes are a terrible, terrible thing.

Now then, lads, let's all go and drink and drink and drink and drink and then we'll drink some more! we'll dance, and sing, and fight until the early morning light! [http://www.leoslyrics.com/listlyrics.ph … m6gJ9nQ%3D]then we'll throw up, pass out, wake up, and then go drinkin' once again!

Indeed, Rxke.  We're so close to getting to Mars; and a lot of the brief phrases that Zubrin used reminded me very much of the rumors of Bush's announcement.  It may be that the two presidents already have met one another.  If so, then Bush has a plan like Mars Direct, and we will be there in less than a decade.  If not, Bush and Zubrin need to meet, at once, so that our future may be given its salutary life's breath.

I recommend everyone who reads this send a quick e-mail to the President (president@whitehouse.gov) commending his proposals and urging him to meet with Dr. Robert Zubrin, sine mora! (without delay)

You'd be surprised how horridly few people have any idea what Mars Direct is or who Robert Zubrin and the Mars Society are.  I've personally called multiple senators and congressmen affiliated with the space program and who are advocates of exploration of other worlds, and they didn't have any idea about Mars Direct or anything but the 90-Day-Report until I did my best to inform them.
Do you know why?  Because they're connected with NASA, the corrupt, factionalized institution it's become, the agency which abhors Zubrin and his ideas.  And you think the Commander in Chief would be better informed than the dedicated officials I contacted?  I only pray that a little good comes from the effort I exerted.

Direct that to the previous adminstration, who systematically destroyed the space program into the burning wreck that Columbia became, the shattered fragments of Polar Lander strewn across the Martian surface, the flakes of Deep Space 2 longsince vaporized in the atmosphere of the Red Planet.  The Clinton Adminstration, and most especially Al Gore, are to blame for our inexcusable stagnation with the godawful International Space Station.  I refer you to Entering Space for more details.
But that's not to say that debilitation of space-based efforts is partisan, oh not at all, for 'twas Nixon, the wretch, who ended our missions to the Moon to begin with.  Conservative, liberal, Democrat, Republican; the whole history of space since Sputnik has been brutalized by both.

And just as Kennedy initiated our first steps into the unknown, so Bush shall continue our uniquely American tradition of braving the final fronteer, and with skill and excellence.  Ignorance is the enemy, dear Cindy; greed is not a factor.  It was ignorance which ended the Moon landings; it was ignorance which brought about the 90-Day-Ungodly-Report prophesying a mission cost twenty times more than it had to be, despite the "best and brightest" supposedly behind it; it was ignorance which cut funding in the nineties from the space program, and it was that very ignorance which led to the loss of millions of dollars worth of artfully produced hardware, and the very loss of six human lives.  Ignorance is the foe which we are here to combat, to educate ourselves via these inimitable fora, so that we might educate the world.

Ad Martem sic nunc imus,
et nos non hic sistimus,
nam homines hic sumus,
ad astra sic ibimus.

Oh yah, and trim it nice and short, like Patrick Stewart:

That's certainly the most professional.  My father already looks a lot like Patrick Stewart; but his hair is all scraggly and weird and ugly looking, not unlike Zubrin on his bad days, minus the comb over.

Yes, when I met him, he looked just as you describe, Josh, but worse.  Still, it was an incredible presentation he gave.

Nice avatar by the way, Mad Grad.  Be ware the power of the Sampo!

Merry Christmas, everyone!

*Laughs outloud!*  Certainly not the English or Germans!

Actually, I think it's fine that Europe gets the Moon; the place absolutely sucks.  It sure looks pretty from Earth, but boy is it a crappy place to do anything.  Let them keep it; let America pioneer Mars.  I don't mind letting the rest of the world nibble futilely on the lunar leftovers thirty years after we've been done with them.

Ad Marte!

No, that wouldn't work, I'm afraid, to come from the "far" side of Europa, as it's not Jupiter itself that's emitting any radiation (Jupiter is just a bunch of helium and other gasses; there isn't anything Jupiter directly does other than make a tremendous magnetic field).  However, due to Jupiter's emmense gravitational field, it has collected solar radiation over the course of aeons.  Earth has done the same; the Van Allen belt is a perfect terrestrial example.  The Earth doesn't actually emit any radiation, but it can collect it from the sun through the millenia.  However, sustainedly staying in the Van Allen belt or Jupiter's main radiation belt (which envelops the orbit of Europa) is very dangerous for almost anything.  The built up stores of charged particles just love to burn you from the inside out, kind of like a microwave oven.

Not to be secret, friend, but just to practice writing in a foreign language.  Up 'til now, I've done Italian and she French.  Now, as I did say, yes, we can practice French.

Then I said, so, dear Cindy, I am studying French; now we can comminicate in the language, when we desire, eh?

And then, If you would, please correct me when I don't speak correctly.

Forums are about learning from one another, aye?  Might as well learn anything we desire if it's possible.

That's funny as hell.