New Mars Forums

May seem like a 'pipe dream' some, but with the clock ticking ...

Following was posted over at the BBS for Richard C.Hoagland and his The Enterprise Mission.  Time for coalition politics regarding momentum in space exploration may have come;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>&g
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It may be a long shot. It may be tilting at windmills. But;
"Carpe' diem ... Carpe' Ares"!

This is text of the one I just sent to Noory at C2C;

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George,

Caught the tail end of Richard C. Hoagland's call-in during "open lines" last night where he expressed strong interest and desire to replace Sean O'Keefe as head of NASA.

YES! YES! YES!

If ever there was one from outside the Beltway Politicos best suited to head NASA, than Richard is that person! With O'Keefe's replacement slatted to be announced on Thursday, timing is very critical and the moment is now!

You must get Richard back on your show tonight to announce and expand upon his candidancy and to get rolling one of those "faxes, calls,e-mails, and letters" to the White House campaigns to take a shoot at making this happen.

Richard would be the sort of leader of NASA who could re-ignite public support for space exploration and help give our nation a direction of hope and promise in this new century that lifts our eyes to the stars and beyond.

"WE" can't let this slim window of opportunity slip by. Please call him and get him on the air. We need to galvanize your audience to get a groundswell started. We haven't a chance unless we try ~ We won't know if we don't go ....

G David Bock
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Now I need to spread this word to other boards and craft a message to the White House.

Let's make it so!

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An advocate who will do everything possible to get things rolling to get humans on Mars, ASAP!

Not sure if this is the best thread for it, but;

Robert Zubrin scheduled guest on Coast to Coast Am radio talk show for Sunday, March 9.
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/

Re: US and Iraq
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The other shoe drops. The final part of the puzzle looks to have been placed. As seen by this article the armor (tank) heavy parts of the Army, 1st Armor Division, 1st Cavalry Division, etc. have been notified of their deployment to the "Iraqi" theatre. These are the key elements needed for any offensive and the 'most expensive' to deploy. That the 'big punch' ground forces wise is now enroute suggests that the assault is near emminent.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/870749.asp

[footnote to those who may not know, my oldest son is with the 1st Cav, assigned to the Mechanized Infantry of 2-5 Cav.]

Hoagland was on Coast to Coast AM briefly tonite to comment on the Sate of the Union Address.  The counter at C2C read just over 8,000 e-mails at time of the Address, but RCH says his "inside source" claimed the tally on their end was about 14,500+.  No where near the numbers the White House hoped for, but given just four days effort, a Super Bowl weekend, and most of the nation 'nail-biting' over the Iraqi mess, not so bad in my book.

Considering most of the nation hasn't even heard of Prometheus/NERVA, and the general low interest in space, NASA, Mars, etc. combined with this only going out to the C2C listening crowd....Then there's the reaction and misconceptions of many due to "anti-nuke' programing the minute they hear word of 'nukes in space'....

Anyway, Bush has signed off for initial funding, O'Keefe broaches it to Congress and the public next week, so round two here is to get behind this and continue to pump it to the press and public.  For now, it'll be unmanned probes powered using Prometheus, so we get further 'proof of process'.  In the meantime, work on building public awareness, interest, and then support.

I'll revise something I posted above in connection here.  Rethinking things, there may be a shoot for "crewed missions to Mars" to get official and public support and not too far down the road.  Iraq and North korea are the only real threats to international security at the moment, and both may have been "neutralized" within the next few months.  No other key nations, Russia, PRChina, Japan, assorted 'Europe' look to be wanting to start wars or world conquest for the near future.  Something like Pakistan/India might flare up, but would be mostly regional~contained. 

Some Middle East nations continue to make rhetoric about ending Israel, but other than Iraq, none seem strongly inclined in this direction yet.  And Islamic Radiacls still spout their holy war/Jihad cause isn't done till Isreal is no more, same with the West/USA and the whole world converted to Islam.  so they may still bomb and kill people when and where they can to make that happen, but this so far is being handled "low profile" via assorted Special Forces operations and that looks to continue to be effective and low cost comparred to something like invading Iraq.

Point is, international geopolitics may settle down significantly within a year, and related drain on US budget might also drop some.  Meaning that funding and public interest/support for something else and more 'positive' like the world joining common cause to go to Mars could work out.  We keep our stick on the ice and keep working it, IMO, of course.

Prometheus and missions to mars frontpage news at;
http://www.marsnews.com/

Also, several extensive and interestingly related articles, including many from/about Mars Society/Mars Direct;
http://www.marsnews.com/focus/humans/

Posted at another BBS;

Mars Society's statement of support for Project Prometheus is a step in the right direction, but would have been better if they'd included an appeal to their membership to send in e-mails, faxes, and phone calls of support to the White House.

I'll admit, this being an RCH 'schtick' attributed to his unnamed 'sources' ("Deep Space") could lend one to wonder if it's for real or not. Either way, an occasion where it should have been worth the investment of "a dime and a few minutes time" to make the effort, couldn't hurt or lose and may be more to gain.

The "Coast to Coast" audience once reportedly numbered in the tens of millions. Might be advertisers hype and likely was up there when Art Bell was in his better form. I suspect it's shrunk a bit since. Given numbers of past similar efforts and my guesstimates on the "politics" in play now, suspect that GWB~White House is looking for at least 10,000+ positive supportive statements from the public on this Prometheus project and/or by extension a 'manned' mission to Mars.

So far the number approaches @ 6,200, nearly double what it was when RCH was on the air last night. Hopefully it will climb higher by this evening. Way 'politics' in DC works, something as large and expensive as "Mankind setting foot on Mars" usually only announced in either a "State of the Union Address" (once each year) or in conjunction with some major and related event. Latter not looking likely at the moment, and 'mid-term' such as now likely Junior's best "timing" on this. A year from now will see more turmoil and conflict (war or two) in the world, other distractions and likely lagging public support for GWB comparred to what he has now.

Such could be a case to try again something "Big" and "distacting" but more likely Junior won't have as much support in Congress and the public then for such an idea as he has now. Why I'll agree that now seems the best time for the next couple of years to 'run this up the flagpole' and get the most salutes. Next best 'opportunity' may be as part of the next presidential race as one of the candidate's platforms, but that hinges on 'numbers' again in the American public 'hot on' and supportive of the idea.

For those who don't/can't e-mail or who wish to add a verbbal message as well, the White house comments phone # is 202-456-1111, but that line has been rather busy so far.

Somewhat predicable has been the response of many over at "another" BBS. True to form, many have used this weekend's episode to renew single minded and petty jabs at RCH/TEM rather than set aside such temporarily for the more probable common ground/good of 'anomalies' in general by supporting Prometheus and it's potential to advance the "anomalies" investigations.

In my book, underscores how many there are far from their claim of being really objective and interested in furthering investigation, since they chose instead to display more of their devisive and 'critical' objectives and agendas. And displays the 'general decline' happening at that forum, IMO. Not aided by the lack of understanding (comprehensive research?) by some of the basic economics and technology involved here. Little risk of any 'radioactive accidents' as these engines are assembled and activated in space for use in going beyond Low Earth Orbit and the little radioactive output is added to the greater amounts already there in space (like duh! What does the Sun pump out in massive quanties every minute?)

Also, such a program (Prometheus) translates into "jobs" and revitalized economy/aerospace industry, both of which are currently lagging in this nation. Plus likely 'spinoffs' of new industries and technology similar to the Apollo Program paybacks begun in the 1960's and continuing on to today.

Some may recall back in early summer of 2002 both Robert Zubrin and Richard C. Hoagland were on the same show together with Art Bell. Their expectable differences aside, they both agreed that "If we don't go, we won't know" what's really on Mars and how much it may be important to our future. From possible ruins/artifacts to it's potential for off-Earth colonization and maybe eventual "terraforming" into a more habitable world. Looking now as if it doesn't happen tonite, may be several years before 'we go', if ever.

Though I just posted this in the Political Outreach area of this board (and on a few other boards), given the topic of this thread, it may fit here as well.  No intention of 'spaming' btw.

Note that we've barely 24 hours left for some large-scale public pre-action to influence GWB's 'State of the Union' message which could announce this and more.  A brief 'window of opportunity' is now in effect.

Mars Society ~Mars Direct joins bandwagon

Brief backstory here, as usual (due to long distance relationship) I was away from and not too active on the 'net this weekend. Seems 'stuff' usually happens on weekends though. So when I got home late last night was a bit of 'catch-up' to do on this Prometheus and SotU matter, kept me going till the wee hours of near dawn.

Reveiwed the mixed reactions of assorted boards, but made my main and limited posting initially over at the BBS for MarsNews.com, replying to Robert Williams openner there and exchanging a few with 'goatstory'. Along the way mussed about Zubrin and his Mars Society and Mars Direct crowd as a look at their website had nothing on this and what looks to be a recently openned BBS for them was also a bit quiet.

So I joined that BBS and started a thread in the Political Action forum on this matter of calls and letters to GWB at this last minute/eleventh hour. I also sent text of one of those posts to a name on the "Contacts" list at the 'Mars Society (Mars Direct)' website, one Brian Frankie, head of their "Political and Public Outreach Task Force" essentially asking him why they haven't "jumped onto this yet".

Haven't received a reply from him, but check the latest on the main board of Mars Society's website;
http://www.marssociety.org/
Looks like they may be getting in on the act, "jumping on the bandwagon" since this is now up in their 'news' section;
http://www.marssociety.com/news/2003/0127.asp

Now I'm not claiming that my e-mail sparked this development, it could have been actions of others or just a monitoring and 'wait see' approach finally got them going. Then again....

The flow of events in human affairs often offers as much chance to "build bridges" as it does to "burn bridges". Given the large membership of Mars Society~Mars Direct crowd and their greater potential for associated networks, along with their 'single minded focus' towards crewed Mars missions this may possibilly work to greatly increase those numbers.

Speaking of numbers, the Prez may propose national policies and directions, but it's Congress that approves such and especially the funding. I suspect GW wants to say he's heard from "tens of thousand of Americans" (if not and better yet, hundreds of thousands) who are supportive and on board towards this increased funding and purpose to not only NASA, but likely other 'private ventures', to get the ball rolling on increased space exploration and 'Missions to Mars'. Numbers sway and if GW has 'in hand' stacks of public response and support to back his State of the Union request and "mandate' then Congress will likely get on board.

Consider sending some follow-on and even pre-'heads-up' e-mails to your elected reps on this, letting them know you expect something will be revealed this SotU and you are for it.

It's the eleventh hour for this initative, 'fourth down and ten to go', we all need to move with a sense of purpose and urgency on this, get the word out, network, make any 'alliances' we can to add to the grassroots groundswell. Time to show what the 21st century and this new age of instant internet exchanges and communications can accomplish, time to empower the peoples of this nation and world on this matter.

[end of soapboxing for the moment]

There's a link for direct e-mail to the White House here;
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/gen/page39.html

Zubrin was on this show with Hoagland back in the early Summer.  From what RCH said that night, GWB is looking for 'number' in public resposne and support for Prometheus and it's "implied" potential to make Mars in 10 years a plausible goal initiated by this administration.  'Junior" wants to do "great things", kicking off the next generation of space tech and goals would be such.

http://www.space.com/busines....17.html

Speaks directly to the fundemental "WIN~WIN" aspect of this project, "Prometheus" is a chance for humanity to draw victory from jaws of defeat via a hope and methodology to meld a new future that reaches for the stars.

"Prometheus" and NERVA like technologies provide both enhanced payloads and/or transit times several times over current antiquated chemical reaction rockets. Translates into not only more robust and capable remote sensor missions, but also the sort of power needed to make manned missions such as to Mars more affordable and practicable.

No matter our thoughts or feelings towards "Anomalies", RCH, TEM, NASA, GWB, or whom/what ever, this is an agenda that is all ready too late in being started, and one that will transition thru this Prez Admin to the next others as well as transcend our petty disputes and quarrels here. Spin-offs will be equal to or beyond those gained in the 60's as Mercury, Gemini, and then Apollo brought our nation and the world into a new age. An age gone stagnant too many decades now and in need of revitalization.

This program would provide;
Economic boosts to a lagging aerospace infrastructure, and then more indirectly to the general economy as a whole.

Will provide renewed incentive for enhanced research and learning/education.

Increased payload 'weight' and 'speed' yields enhanced and earlier data and discoveries thruout the solar system via remote sensor probes.

Crewed missions to return to the Moon and more importantly, shot for Mars within a decade, with intend for enduring presense, not a drop-by and scoot (again) is now more practical and enticing.

As during the "race for the Moon", the combination of "off the shelf" knowledge plus integration of new techonolgies should generate an exponential of new ideas, new er technologies and new "industries" similar to the winfalls of this sort from back then.

Most importantly, if Prometheus is coupled to a commitment to explore and/or colonize Mars (especially with some 'urgency'), than once again this nation and planet has a 'rendezvous with destiny' and a hope and goal that many nations can come together on. Humankind once again has a dream and ideal that lifts our gaze skyward and provides a positive direction for our future.

We all need to get them e-mails, faxes, and letters~calls in on this one.

The following does have a 'usual dose' of Hoagland's view on things, but also contains some needed links to other information and data on this project.  One can vote for Prometheus without having to also 'vote for' Hoagland (RCH/TEM) if that makes them feel better;
http://www.lunaranomalies.com/prometheus.htm

Near the top of their website TEM provides and area where you can contact other elected officials and major news media/persona on this.
http://www.enterprisemission.com/

At this point there's less than two days to mount a major campaign of public interest, enthusiasim, and support not only for Prometheus, but by extention the crewed exploration and 'colonization' of Mars.  Those seriously interested in this may accelerate an already lagging timeline by some action now.