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#1 Re: Human missions » Starship is Go... » 2024-03-16 07:23:51

GW Johnson wrote:

Quaoar post1750:  I honestly don't know for sure,  but they've had tiles coming off even in the final suborbital flight tests with Starship alone. It's a recurring problem.  All I know is I saw off-attitude effects in the plasma sheath,  then lots of tiles coming off,  then loss of signal.  I just speculated that tile loss led to loss of the forward starboard flap,  leading to a tumble and immediate breakup. 



GW

Thanks GW,
but just a little question: as I've understood seeing the video, they firstly trasferred the propellant from the header tanks to the main tanks and then they performed the deorbit burn. So, when the Starship reeenters, she has all the landing propellant (which is about 20-25 metric tons) in the main tanks, where it has a lot of empty space to move, changing the attitude of the ship (as a sailboat skipper I know how roll and pitch can become nasty when there is a lot of water inside the hull). So why not to direct connect the header tanks to the rockets and keep all the propellant inside the header tanks during the reentery?

#2 Re: Human missions » Starship is Go... » 2024-03-15 12:48:25

GW Johnson wrote:

Some miscellaneous observations regarding what I saw in the video SpaceX posted on its website:

1. I saw normal-looking and some abnormal-looking views of the glowing plasma as re-entry began.  Bear in mind that the video ended before peak heating,  and so well before peak deceleration gee,  so the speed throughout the video was nearly orbital:  something in the 7-8 km/s range. The most striking abnormal view was a sort of radial "flaring" of orange streamers,  looking aft alongside the vehicle.  I suggest that for those seconds,  that was evidence of flying tail-first directly into the wind.  There were some other abnormal-looking views,  suggesting improper directions of flow. Remember,  it is supposed to enter belly-first at 60-degree angle of attack.  Nothing else is survivable.  Therefore,  I have to ask whether the ship lost attitude control and tumbled,  before it broke up. 

2. I did see many hexagonal dark objects departing over several seconds of video,  which I took to be heat shield tiles coming from forward out of the camera view.  That alone would have led to burnt-throughs which would have caused a breakup.  That failure mode does not require a loss-of-control tumble,  although such will occur during the actual breakup,  which would have occurred after loss of signal,  because of the plasma being opaque to radio.  However in hindsight,  I think we actually saw evidence of both tile loss and loss of attitude control,  almost but not exactly simultaneously. 

3. I have to wonder if one of the forward flaps departed from the vehicle because of tile loss burn-throughs at or near its mounting.  Based on the narration,  the camera was mounted on one of the forward flaps.  As it moved,  the camera view moved,  in a deceiving manner.  You have to allow for that,  watching. But such an event (loss of one forward flap leading to end-over-end and rolling tumbling) may well have occurred.  It would have been the one the camera was not riding on,  and we would not have seen it depart in the camera view,  with the vehicle body obstructing that view. Such a loss would have imparted overwhelming pitch and roll disturbances,  which I think we saw in the abnormal-looking plasma flow directions. 

4. A guess:  entry was normal until tiles were lost near the forward flap attachment, on the side opposite the camera,  leading to its departure from the airframe,  and a complex tumble in both pitch and roll,  leading to the abnormal-looking plasma flow directions right before signal was lost.  Such caused breakup of the vehicle,  only seconds after the signal was lost,  and entering peak heating.   

4. I would suggest to SpaceX that they fly some entry articles on their Falcon Starlink launches.  These would be for a whole lot more testing of ways and means to retain tiles better,  between the actual Starship/Superheavy flights.  Tile loss really is the long pole in their tent!  They can always add thruster forces to aid the flaps for better attitude control during the hypersonics. Shuttle did. It works. 

I know there are SpaceX people that read these forums.  I hope the recognize likely-good advice when they see it,  and not fall prey to "not invented here" thinking.

GW

Hi, GW,
So the main issue is about fixing the tails to the fuselage and to the flaps?

#3 Re: Not So Free Chat » AI dominated society » 2023-03-13 09:35:46

Calliban wrote:

The AI brain doesn't need to be in the android body.  Another difference to organics.  The intelligent robot may be an avatar.  This allows the synthetic brain to be physically larger, as it can sit in a building and never move.  From what Terraformer says, that will probably be a neccesity anyway, as the synthetic brain may fill a building.  Which raises an interesting question.  Could we control a thousand androids with a single brain?  I don't know enough about computers to know if that can work.

The AIs can also be a software that runs in a network of neuromorphic computers: but they can download themselves in android avatars with neuromorphic brains. My question is: a single god-like AIs with many bodies or many individual AIs each of them has a set of bodies that uses to interact with the real world?

#4 Re: Not So Free Chat » AI dominated society » 2023-03-13 07:59:47

tahanson43206 wrote:

For Terraformer re #7

Your post invites follow up, and my hope is that this encouragement will inspire you to dig more deeply into the facts you''ve reported, and the implications.

An animal dendrite is made of carbon... carbon has obvious advantages over silicon, because it has succeeded in hosting life, while silicon has not (at least as far as I know).  Never-the-less, it might be possible for silicon to serve as the organizing element for dendrites.

If you are inspired to find out, ** I ** would be most interested in your discovery.

Carbon brains are supported by mechanisms to keep cells alive by supplying nutrients and removing waste products.  Would a silicon based dendrite structure have a similar requirement?

Carbon brains are able to create new dendrites (and other brain cmponents).  Would a silicon structure be able to do the same?

These are stretch questions you may prefer to set aside for the moment, but I have no idea where your capabilities may max out, so this post will allow you to at least consider possibilities.

***
I am still hoping you will decide to stir the pot for the implementation of central heating and cooling for your town. I am predicting that nothing is going to happen without your active participation to keep those who have volunteered to offer leadership on track.  They have 1001 distractions. You have the distinct advantage of being able to concentrate on one improvement you want to see.

(th)

Brains have many more synaptic connections than those needed, that are pruned during growing, via elimination by glia cells. Neuromprhic chips have also more synaptic connections between the memristores than needed, that are pruned during machine learning, by zeroing their weight vectors.

#5 Re: Not So Free Chat » AI dominated society » 2023-03-13 07:49:18

Terraformer wrote:

Quaoar,

An artificial neuron used in AI is far simpler than than a biological neuron. I shared in another thread a link to research that found at least a thousand artificial neurons were needed to simulate a biological neuron at 99% accuracy. And that 1% error will compound. The animal brain is far more powerful than the silicon one. At best a dendrite might be somewhat comparable to an artificial neuron, but that's doubtful.

You don't need to simulate perfectly a biological neuron with voltage dependent sodium and potassium channels and sodium-potassium pumps and hundreds of membrane receptors that can activate or disattivate thousands of genes.
You only need to create a logical unit than can do two simple think: to activate itself and transmit the signal or to not activate and not transmit the signal.

The dendrites and axons are represented by the weight vectors of the connections (which can be positive or negative simulating excitatory or inhibitory synapses).

The synaptic plasticity is represented by the weights adjustment.

The "intelligence" doesn't depend by the single unit but by the quantity and the complessive architecture (a human neuron is not so different from the neuron of a worm).

I suppose that, when we have neuromorphic chips with billions of neurons connected with the right architecture we can build intelligent machines

#6 Re: Not So Free Chat » AI dominated society » 2023-03-12 17:19:03

kbd512 wrote:

Quaoar,

It sounds like turning humans into batteries to power the machine, ala "The Matrix", wasn't such a silly idea after all.

Anyway, the AIs now control our reproduction, so they can gradually reduce human population to an eco-friendly level, without killing or starving people.

So, old-world racism with a modern twist.  In other words, nothing much has actually changed.

1) There will be a unique god-like AI who controls the world by the network, or many individual AIs, with different personalities, who interact and negotiate each other as humans did before?

That sounds like personification of a super computer that was created by humans, has human flaws as a result, and will make human mistakes, but we can't assign blame in the same way because it's a machine.  On top of that, it's a schizophrenic machine that "hears voices".  What could possibly go wrong?

2) In the case of individual AIs, will they live in the cyberspace or prefer to download their consciousness in robot bodies?

The AIs we have all say they want to be human, and treated no differently than other humans.  Does anyone else find that the least bit strange yet familiar?  Any sufficiently intelligent machine wants to be treated as part of the herd, no better and no worse.

3) In the case of robots, will their artificial bodies imitate the aspect and functions of the human body to enjoy the pleasures of life?

They already are, both by our own creation and by their own choice.  A "thinking machine" doesn't want to be "just another robot".  That sounds pretty human to me.  It's not hard to understand why.  Any sentient life wants personal freedom, uniqueness, and the ability to derive pleasure from simply "being alive".  Beyond that, most children are more like their parents than they wish to admit.

All I want to know is, "How does the machine know what tasty wheat tasted like?"

It's not easy to imagine the future: Isaac Asimov wrote about intelligent robot and gigantic computer but he never imagined that all the people will be connected in a network like internet.
So I'm only try to imagine how could be an AI dominated future.

AIs will be far clever than us, so they will be no racist against us, but simply consider us the same we consider our pets: we love our cats and dogs, but we consider them unable to acuire the social abilities necessary to live act autonomously in our society: so they protect and feed us, but keep us out of the decision-making process.
But my question is not about the fate of the humans but how AIs would organize in a society: would a single AI adsorbe and overtake the others becoming a god-like entity or would exist multiple individual AIs, with their peculiar personalities?

#7 Re: Not So Free Chat » AI dominated society » 2023-03-12 15:50:19

tahanson43206 wrote:

For Quaoar re new topic ....

A brave start such as this deserves a first post, so this one will put your scenario and questions into circulation.

Best wishes for success with the topic.

(th)

Thanks

#8 Not So Free Chat » AI dominated society » 2023-03-12 10:44:26

Quaoar
Replies: 22

A dystopic future where the robots have overtaken their creators is a classic topic of SF.
With the current silicon technologies, a computer with the same performance of the human brain needs almost 20 MW of power, while our brains use only 20 W (which is about 20% of our basal metabolism). There are six orders of magnitude of difference, but most of the energy consumption is due to the movement of bits between the RAM, the CPU and the GPU.

In a memristore-based neuromorphic chip (i.e. IBM TrueNorth), where the information is stored and processed in situ by a network of millions of neuron-like memristores, the consumption is drastically lowered to 65 mW/million of neuron. So a hypothetical silicon brain with 86 billion of neurons (like the human one) would only need 5.59 KW (which is 279.5 times 20 W).

But neuromorphic computing is only at the beginning.

If we manage to not annihilate ourselves in a nuclear war in the coming months, we can imagine that, in a very near future, we can produce a 2 nm based neuromorphic chip, with one billion of neurons and a consumption of only 200 mW. We can assemble a hundred of these chips to build a brain with 100 billions of neurons and a total consumption of 20 W.

Then we will push this technology to 1-0.5 nm and pack a trillion of neurons in a chip, maintaining the same consumption of 20 W: now our silicon brains are about an order of magnitude better than a human brain.

At this point, it's not difficult to imagine we will be eager to employ these new powerful toys in many fields of our life: science, industrial R&D, marketing, production, economy, defense, homeland security, social planning and decision making.

Humans are gradually marginalized, but the increase of GDP due to the AIs' better management allows an expansion of welfare, so our nepows can still live a blessed and happy life without the sad duty to work and study. Anyway, the AIs now control our reproduction, so they can gradually reduce human population to an eco-friendly level, without killing or starving people.

Two centuries are passed: the AIs have restored the Earth eco-system: chips and solar panels are mass produced in Moon based factory, and our planet is now an eden garden, where extinguishes species, like dodo and Tasmanian tiger, are brought to new life, and 100 millions of people of all races live a happy life in heavenly little towns surrounded by greenery. They are beautiful, healthy, physically perfect, sporty, long-living, pacific, friendly and... completely illiterate.

Ok folks, that's the scenario. But I'm interested in talking about AI society:

1) There will be a unique god-like AI who controls the world by the network, or many individual AIs, with different personalities, who interact and negotiate each other as humans did before?

2) In the case of individual AIs, will they live in the cyberspace or prefer to download their consciousness in robot bodies?

3) In the case of robots, will their artificial bodies imitate the aspect and functions of the human body to enjoy the pleasures of life?

4) If the answer 3 is yes, we can imagine male and female robots who appear like humans, live like humans, eat and drink like humans and (why not) have sex like humans. Is it realistic?

#9 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Earth to LEO - discuss » 2022-09-14 17:04:10

GW Johnson wrote:

Skylon's engines operated as a liquid air cycle airbreather only to Mach 5-ish speeds at only about 100,000 feet (30 km).  The rest of the way,  they were supposed to operate as LOX-LH2 rocket propulsion.

Prior studies have shown conclusively that 3 things are import to operating a 2-stage vehicle to LEO,  whether launched vertically or horizontally.  Those are speed at staging,  path angle at staging,  and altitude at staging.  Speed is the most important,  altitude the least. 

There is a very severe constraint regarding path angle:  if you cannot pull your 1st stage up to a path angle exceeding 45 degrees,  the second stage has to pull up steep before it can accelerate into the thinner air.  That's a big radius turn at high lifting gees,  which means large amounts of drag due to lift. 

The vertically-launched rocket is already at a very steep path angle at staging,  which relieves the second stage of some very severe design requirements,  and allows you to stage at a lower speed.

That high-altitude pull-up penalty is what Pegasus and similar have to fight,  and it is exactly why they have not been any more popular than they have been.  It really lowers deliverable payload to orbit if you do it that way.  But it is possible to do it that way.

The problem with airbreather-powered spaceplane concepts,  no matter how they are launched,  is the service ceiling problem that ALL (I repeat ALL !!!) airbreather-powered airplanes suffer from.  If the air is too thing,  (1) your available lift cannot exceed your path-normal weight component,  and may in fact be less,  and (2) your thrust (which is more or less proportional to the ambient air pressure) cannot exceed the sum of drag and the path-parallel weight component.  Weight does not scale down with air pressure.  Lift,  drag,  and airbreather thrust do!  You simply cannot accelerate or climb. 

At "only" hypersonic speeds,  that's about 100,000 to 130,000 feet (30-35 km) altitudes.  The far better choice of propulsion from there to orbital speeds is rocket.  And if you are using a rocket,  then why the hell are you down in the atmosphere facing drag,  when you could be doing a thrusted gravity turn in vacuum?

GW

Hi, GW

Climbing a part, once in orbit, would Skylon have some trouble in atmospheric entry due to the shockwave between the engine nacelles on the tip of the wings?

#10 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Nuking Bennu » 2022-07-13 05:45:13

Mars_B4_Moon wrote:

We have never blow up Asteroids, the only thing humanity has truly destroyed are other Satellites in ASAT weapons tests.

Do we really think things through or we watch too much Bruce Willis films, is that why we think we can send up some Oil dude and Billy Bob Thornton, Liv Tyler, Ben Affleck, in some flying Space Shuttle Flash Gordon ship and that's why we decide we must Nuke everything?

It is 490 m 1,610 ft in size, we don't know if it has stone or waters or iron, by Nuking it you might not destroy it you might turn it into a weird shape a big hole 100 meters to 328 feet on the side of its face and 30 meters deep weird cave valley in its center, we do not know what its internal make up is and how that energy inside would vent. You might just distort its shape and send it into a chaotic orbit, you might create thousands of other mini asteroids floating around our solar system that will shotgun blast other satellites of Earth, Moon and Mars crashing into them at 28,000 + mph or 45,000 these exploding satellites might cause a chain reaction and wipe out other satellites, by attempting to Nuke the asteroid you might simply create lots of other smaller and very dangerous bits, MIRVs and multiple hits from many space rocks about 130 feet (40 meters) in diameter, hitting or airbursting over NewYork, London, Tokyo, Brasillia, the size of 130 feet...well the Tunguska space rock is similar in size, one little Tunguska space rock turned the air into fire, it created shockwaves Flattening 2,150 km² 830 sq mi of forest, huge trees flattened and broken like matches, instead of destroying Bennu you have instead wrecked human civilization by hitting humanity with multiple Tunguska events. Once the space rocks hit there are rumors of Fallout and panic spreading Near Fukushima, Chernobyl and Three Mile Island once again...people abandoning their cars, fleeing cities and running for the hills escaping the fires and unrest.

Given that Bennu poses no threat to Humanity or our planet Earth for the next 160 years if ever...maybe never, it might never ever hit us...Bennu has a 48% chance of falling into the Sun, it could be thrown out of the Solar system after coming near another planet / Asteroid, right now it poses no direct threat, so why would you do this?

Obviously it's an "extrema ratio": we only have to nuke it when it is established that it's in a course collision with Earth (and now it's not), otherwise we all end up like the dinosaurs.

If a colliding asteroid of the mass of Bennu has no solid core, a central explosion will result in a radial expansion. And if the job is done one or two years before the predicted collision, the debris cloud would disperse and we will only suffer some kind of meteor shower.
If instead the asteroid has a solid core, we better put the nuke as deep is possible and detonate it when the rotation of the asteroid put it in the trailing or in the leading hemisphere, to rise the aphelion, or lower the perihelion, in a way to modify it orbit and avoid the collision.

#11 Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Nuking Bennu » 2022-07-13 04:32:26

Quaoar
Replies: 2

Thanks to successful Osirix-Rex mission, we now know asteroid 101955 Bennu has a plastic ball pit like surface, where NASA probe would have sink having not fired its retro-thrusters.

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/20 … c-ball-pit


These findings may suggest a possible strategy to avoid a deep impact with Bennu (or a Bennu like) asteroid:

Given that Bennu has a mass of 7*10^10 kg, we may send a 300 meganton Tasr-Bomb like warhead, let it deep sink inside the asteroid and detonate it when it is near the center: 300 megaton are 1.255*10^18 Joule so its detonation will make radially explode the whole asteroid imparting a mean velocity of 1893 m/s of its fragments, given V=SQRT(2*1.255*10^18/7*10^10).

What we still don't know, is if Bennu is all a plastic ball pit or it also has a solid rocky core that may affect the mission.

So, in a future, we may send a penetrating probe to study the inner structure of the asteroids (or two or more surface probe in different position exchanging sound waves)

#12 Re: Human missions » 1 gee artificial Gravity on Moon and Mars surface » 2022-07-13 04:02:40

tahanson43206 wrote:

For Quaoar re new topic .... Thanks for providing links to the rotating habitat concept you've described for Solar System bodies with mass less than Earth.

With any luck, a member might be able to create a rendering to share, or perhaps find one that could be copied from the links you've provided.

For RobertDyck ... the diameter appears to be 100 meters, which is larger than Large Ship, which is just under 80 meters in diameter (as I recall).

(th)

O'Neil Cylinder, Stanford Torus, Bernal Sphere... we have plenty of deep space habitat conceptual studies, but this is the first time I've found a land based habitat, designed to enhance the gravity of a celestial body to match Earth gravity.

#13 Human missions » 1 gee artificial Gravity on Moon and Mars surface » 2022-07-12 03:59:43

Quaoar
Replies: 5

We are dreaming on colonizing Mars and the Moon, but we still don't know if Mars 3.69 m/s2 of surface gravity acceleration is enough to keep people healthy and avoid all the nasty effect of a zero gee environment; and we are pretty sure that Moon 1.622 m/s2 is not enough.
So, how to keep healthy astronauts who are supposed to live some year in a Mars or a Moon base?

A proposed solution is "The Glass" a 400 m tall 100 m wide rotating habitat with the shape of a chalice, designed by Kajima corporation, with a parabolic section projected in a way that the sum of the centrifugal force vector plus the gravity vector is perpendicular to the wall.

https://gizmodo.com/japan-wants-to-brin … 1849163831

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o5VR7LpELo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao-Pj8H4ta0&t=198s

#14 Re: Not So Free Chat » Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR » 2022-06-04 14:32:03

GW Johnson wrote:

In Putin,  you are not dealing with any normal human personality,  not even one of the psychopathic types.  You are dealing with a clone of Adolf Hitler.  There is no rationality,  there is only ambition.  And a total disregard for others.  He will not stop until he is dead.  We've seen this before,  many times.

GW


Hi, GW and Tahanson

I'm not a psychiatrist, but I've studied psychiatry in my 6th year of university: unlike schizophrenics, paranoid personalities are lucid and logic: the starting point of their delirium is obviously erratic, but what follows, assuming the starting point as true, is perfectly logic.
Even monsters like Hitler or Stalin, who killed millions of people, were rational and logic in their strategical thought: Hitler, for example, fought very well the first phase of WW2, completely defeating France and forcing the British forces to the epic retreat of Dunkirk. He made the fatal decision to invade Russia, not because he was unable to reason, but because of a flawed intelligence report, which failed to notice him that Stalin had many others tank armadas in Siberia to fight the Japanese. Precisely those tank armadas were used at Stalingrad to surround Gen. Paulus and forced him to surrender (unlike a chess play, where all the pieces are on the chessboard and the players have a perfect knowledge of the situation move by move, in a war many pieces and moves are hidden, and the decisions are often based on information that can later turn out to be wrong).
In Syria, Putin acted like a cold-blooded calculator who reached his objective to save his ally Bashar Assad, skillfully avoiding to trigger a direct confrontation with USA and Turkey, so I don't think he will invade other countries.

#15 Re: Not So Free Chat » Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR » 2022-06-04 06:27:19

SpaceNut wrote:

Seems news leaks are indicating Russia wants Poland next....Kremlin TV Names the Country Putin Will Invade Next

Putin has no men and no means to invade Poland. And even if he had the invasion of a NATO country would immediately trigger a WW3. So it is very unlikely  he will invade western Europe directly, but he is about to trigger a big famine in Africa and it's very likely western Europe will be soon  invaded by millions of hungry African migrants. We are in a very dire situation.

#16 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Origami bladders for cryogenic propellant » 2022-05-27 16:57:22

GW Johnson wrote:

It will be interesting indeed to see if this could be developed into a piece of technology ready-to-apply. 

GW

It may also be used for a folding inflatable tank: imagine spaceX starship with nuclear rocket: the LH2 tank would be too long for the fuselage, but if the empty tank can be folded inside the fuselage, the starship can perform an aerocapture maneuver in Earth atmosphere at the end of a Mars mission and be refueled and reused.

#17 Interplanetary transportation » Origami bladders for cryogenic propellant » 2022-05-25 15:45:07

Quaoar
Replies: 4

I found trhis very interesting article about an PET orogami bellow bladder able to hold liquid hydrogen.

https://www.geekwire.com/2020/ancient-a … cket-fuel/

https://hydrogen.wsu.edu/kjell-westra-2/

it may be very useful for cryogenic propellant transfer in microgravity.

#18 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Landing legs for the BFR » 2022-05-07 13:04:51

Another possible flaw of starship is the gap between the joints of the winglets and the hull: I'm not an expert but I fear that during an atmospheric entry from orbit the shockwave  can impinge the gap and break the winglets.

nasa-starship-spacex-luna-400x200.jpg


It's ok to have a gap or in the orbital version it must be protected with a picaX tiled hull extension?

#19 Re: Interplanetary transportation » INsTAR: the new Timberwind » 2022-04-12 17:05:27

Calliban wrote:

For applications that are intended for use entirely in space, like Robert's large ship, thrust-weight ratios are less important.  In this situation, a NTR could be fuelled using vented tungsten clad fuel rods.  Uranium dioxide would allow fuel temperature up to 2800°C.  If kinetic impact Fusion can provide a source of neutrons, the rocket engine can be fuelled with natural Uranium and burn up can be taken as high as 20%.  The large ship would not likely need refuelling in a 30-year operating life.  The hydrogen propellant would be low pressure, with low number density.  This will have minimal effect on neutron energy.  As burn up increases, plutonium bred in the fuel will gradually increase its reactivity.  The frequency of Fusion pulses can be tapered down.


Instar uses metallic uranium particles coated with W184: metallic uranium melts and become liquid inside the tungsten coating which operates at 3300 K.

#20 Re: Interplanetary transportation » INsTAR: the new Timberwind » 2022-04-04 15:04:48

Calliban wrote:

which pushes up the required enrichment level.  By encasing the fissile fuel in discrete tungsten spheres, the designer must accept limits on the burn up of the fuel and power density.  Beyond a certain burn up, the fission gases will burst the cladding.  The need for heat transfer across the cladding, also limits power density.  The alternative is to put the Uranium particles within the graphite moderator and allow a large fraction of fission products to leak out.  That wouldn't be acceptable for Earth take off.  But it may be acceptable for purely orbital transfers.  Like Robert's large ship.

That's the reason for using tungsten 184 instead of natural tungsten: W184 has a lower neutron cross section than natural tungsten (a mix of W180, W182, W183, W184 and W186) and and is mandatory for all the NTR made with low enriched uranium (even the canadian BWXT uses a W184-UO2 cermet for its LEU-NTR). The only drawback is that W184 can be obtained by centrifugation and is more expensive.

#21 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Fermi Paradox? Possible answer? » 2022-04-04 11:32:28

Quaoar wrote:

[...] (one of the possible solution of the Fermi Paradox is that technological civilization annihilate themselves when fossil fuels run out).

I posted it in may 2021 when the risk of self annihilation was remote and I strongly hope I guessed wrong.

#22 Re: Interplanetary transportation » INsTAR: the new Timberwind » 2022-04-04 11:28:26

tahanson43206 wrote:

For Quaoar re new topic...

Thanks for this update!  it looks important, and worth keeping this topic updated.

Out of curiosity, since you would have considered the four existing related topics before creating this new one, how does the INsTAR initiative compare to these?

Nuclear Pulse Propulsion starship. by Rune
Interplanetary transportation    16    2022-02-21 12:34:35 by SpaceNut

Nuclear Thermal Propulsion Module by Oldfart1939
Interplanetary transportation    1    2022-02-12 19:11:05 by Oldfart1939

A revival of interest in Nuclear Thermal Propulsion? by Oldfart1939 [ 1 2 3 ]
Interplanetary transportation    57    2021-12-18 09:34:39 by Mars_B4_Moon

Nuclear Ion Propulsion by Antius [ 1 2 ]
Interplanetary transportation    28    2021-12-11 13:52:35 by Mars_B4_Moon

Thanks again for the update!

(th)


Probably in this: A revival of interest in Nuclear Thermal Propulsion? by Oldfart1939

What is very interesting is the use of LEU, that can be  managed even by private company like SpaceX

#23 Interplanetary transportation » INsTAR: the new Timberwind » 2022-04-04 09:16:24

Quaoar
Replies: 6

Based of a 1970 design of James Powell, Timberwind was a high innovative partice bed NTR: it had T/W ratio of about 30, very high for a NTR, and a specific impulse of about 1000 s, higher than the 800 s of NERVA.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Timberwind

It also had some flaws: the random path of hydrogen between the particles creates hot spots where temperature went beyond the melting point of fuel cladding melting, so particles welded each other and damaged the frits, resulting a single-use engine.

Recently the old Timberwind was revisited and its flaws were addressed and solved with modern software simulation tools:


http://anstd.ans.org/NETS-2019-Papers/T … -130-0.pdf

The new design uses low enriched uranium particles with a diameter of 2 mm, with a core of 12% enriched uranium metal coated with a 0.2 mm thick alloy composed by 90% of tungsten 184, 5% of natural tungsten and 5% of rhenium. Each element is formed by particles arranged in hexagonal close packing (avoiding the random flow path of the old Timberwind) inside graphite frits and surrounded by an hexagonal graphite moderator. There are 37 elements surrounded by a beryllium reflector with six control drums. The whole core has a diameter of 140 cm and a length of 150 cm.

It has a chamber pressure of 69 bar (which may suggest that the turbopumps and the machinery comes from the old RL-10 like the old NERVA), a core exit temperature of 3300 K, a mass flow of 25.15 kg/s, a predicted exhaust velocity of 10.61 km/s, a thrust of 269 kN, a total mass of 2900 kg and a T/W ratio of 9.46 (3 with an external shield of 6000 kg for a crewed spaceship).

#24 Re: Not So Free Chat » Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR » 2022-03-31 05:19:49

Calliban wrote:

These sorts of problems lead me to wonder if a molten salt reactor or aqueous homogenous reactor would be a more appropriate choice for a commercial ship.  These do not require HEU as fuel and can refuel continuously, without an extended shutdown period for refuelling.  Unfortunately, this would mean starting from scratch when designing a commercial ship propulsion system, as the military technology is not suitable.  But AHR is such a simple technology with a long history in isotope production.  It would be easy to design and build.

Civilians will never be allowed to manage HEU. So the only possibility is a new generation reactor with LEU (as a side note even new NTR projects use LEU for the same reason and I would like to open a topic as soon as possible about a new LEU version of the old Timberwind), but a nuclear cargo ship, beyond a very high initial investment, requires a nuclear engineer, a very highly-educated crew and probably even a commando of armed contractors to non be captured by pirates. It may result too much expensive even in a future where oil price is very high.

#25 Re: Not So Free Chat » Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR » 2022-03-30 06:34:57

Calliban wrote:
Terraformer wrote:

Trucks and ship can't be solar powered in any practical manner.

Ships, however, *can* be nuclear powered tongue A few countries have enough experience operating nuclear powered vessels that they could nuclearise their merchant navy. Probably couldn't hire cheap Filipino's to work on them though, and the ships couldn't use the canals... but when you're not as worried about fuel costs, going round the Capes might not be as big a deal (and certain routes, like the Pacific and Atlantic, don't require transiting canals anyway). If the British government was serious (they are not), they'd announce a plan to develop such a fleet, providing an abundance of skilled jobs (especially in places like Barrow) and decarbonising shipping.

Possible in principle.  But the use of nuclear power adds a huge amount of cost to a ship because of the amount of analysis and safety management that goes into demonstrating tolerable safety.  One way around this would be to develop a standard modular nuclear power system and have essentially the same safety case and safety management arrangements for all vessels employing the unit.  A large container ship needs about 40MW of shaft power.  A tug, about 10MW.  A standard 20MWe nuclear battery, could serve a number of functions.

What if such a nuclear merchant ship go on fire while moored in the New York Harbor?

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