New Mars Forums

No Way shaun! I have that Spaceships of Ezekiel book, though I wouldn't have admitted if you hadn't bought the subject up, for fear of being rejected from the forum for being a loony 'Mars Face boy'. I haven't read it for ages but I do remember bits of it, like the wheels within wheels etc, but didn't realise the Manna was microbes made by nuclear reactors. I will have to dig it out again!
As fars as vat food is concerned I think for as long a trip as a Mars Mission, good food with lots of variety is a must (for health and moral reasons), so vat 'mush' doesn't really sound that appealing but I admit there have to be sacrifices.

Phobos, the Salamanders seem an interesting solution, how much power would they require?

I think some sort of reflective surface on the ground of a dome (if that is the way to go, rather than in-hub hydroponics) could help increase the light to plants. If the light cannot be increase a great deal then it is down to plant selection or maybe genetic alteration to improve productivity.

With Nuke power though we could have loads of lights I guess, but I'm sure it would be too expensive, un-safe, heavy (lead lined) and politically challenging.

A few gardening links for those interested

ET Agriculture - Mars soil

Plants on Other Worlds

Does anyone know offhand whether any of the 2003 rovers planned to visit Mars, have any sort of drilling device to look properly and extract hydrogen ( ice/water) ? I noticed Nasa have still not confirmed the sites for landing but wondered if they were planning to drill down below the surface at all? There were some hydrogen hot spots in the equatorial region shown on the data from the Mars Surveyor, surely they will opt for somewhere near there?
Any ideas or news would be of special interest. I've checked the ESA Beagle website but not found anything related to drilling, it is worth a visit anyway.
Beagle 2 Website

I think it would be good to bash out some ideas on actually growing food on Mars. There seems to be many problems with greenhouses on mars, not just what they would be made from, but whether they will actually work.
Water is a key concern. Where to get it from and the need to keep it from freezing are big worries. Recycling of waste water is a good source and maybe from ground ice but wherever you get it from it has to be kept warm. Solar water heater seem a good option for this, just like the domestic roof ones, anything to keep the stuff from freezing. Also you don't want to be growing rice for example there won't be an abundance of the stuff!
Another concern is the soil itself. I have doubts wether anything will grow in the Martian regolith. It has no organic matter and with no water table you would have to have isolated containers to keep the moisture in anayway. Again recycling of human waste could be a good source for soil, ESA have a experiment called 'Melissa' researching that. Another thing I have not heard mentioned much is worms. They are valuable in my compost heep at home, so at can't see that not being the case on a Mars base either. Once you have things growing, composters will provide a good amount of future soil.
Light is the other point. I believe Mars recieves only 44% the light that the Earth gets, so the right plants would have to be chosen that grow well with very little of it, unless you want to use power on extra lighting. Anyway...
Opinions and links on any of the above would be appreciated

I think nuclear power would best be avoided, so I have been looking into other forms of wind turbine that may be of more use on Mars. The Savonius Rotor design looks to be one of the best bets. It would be much much lighter and easier to transport to Mars and is a high torque/ low speed machine so could be good for power generation even at non duststorm times.
It could be made of a fabric to make it even lighter and it turns whichever way the wind is coming, (reducing the amount of moving parts). The only problems are the low efficiency and could fail if the winds gust too high. The fact that the gearing is all on the floor make it easy to maintain and generally the size need not be huge to produce a decent amount of power.Wine Turbines

Another idea for electricity generation is human power. The Astronauts will be exercising not stop for the months they are in space; to stop the bone depletion etc; so why not rig the execise bikes with generators.  OK you are not going to make megawatts, but why waste the energy as heat when you can top up the batteries when you want (on a calm night) in the comfort of the hub.
In emergencies, once the dust has warn down the panels and screwed with the turbine's gearing, it would be the only way to contact Earth.
On Yer Bike!
Pedal Power