New Mars Forums

Tholzel

Banned

From: Boston

Registered: 2004-03-20

Posts: 56

Re: The "White Mars" theory - CO2 not water

I have not seen much talk of the "White Mars" theory, which posits that all the so-called water flow sighted on Mars is nothing else than liquid and gaseous CO2 that has suddenly erupted (explosively) when underlying beds of frozen CO2 suddenly reach a critical warm temperature and explode.

The result is a massive outflowing of liquid CO2, as well as gaseous, which carries along with it huge boulders, clunkers of rock, dirt and ice, all of which make the familiar rivulets NASA scientitst are claiming to be evidence of water flow.

You can get a tast of this theory (and some references) at: http://www.velocitypress.com/pages/wate … n_mars.php

(Sorry to be the skunk at the dinner party...)

Shaun Barrett

Member

From: Cairns, Queensland, Australia

Registered: 2001-12-28

Posts: 2,843

Re: The "White Mars" theory - CO2 not water

I think the 'White Mars' hypothesis was always a rather exotic and contrived one, even though proposed by a fellow Australian, Dr. Nick Hoffman!
    Since it was first being touted back in 2000, a great deal of evidence has emerged in favour of water as the agent which has produced the ubiquitous fluvial features on Mars.

    While not impossible, I think it very unlikely that the dying 'White Mars' hypothesis will stage a miraculous death-bed recovery at this stage!  :;):

    The Mars Express ground-penetrating radar, due to be deployed in May, should finally tell us one way or the other, assuming all goes well. Let's wait and see. 

---

The word 'aerobics' came about when the gym instructors got together and said: If we're going to charge $10 an hour, we can't call it Jumping Up and Down.   - Rita Rudner

srmeaney

Member

From: 18 tiwi gdns rd, TIWI NT 0810

Registered: 2005-03-18

Posts: 976

Re: The "White Mars" theory - CO2 not water

Of course there is water. It is called Permafrost. The Iron which is mixed in with the water to make the permafrost is busily stealing the Oxygen atoms in a slow, low energy process which involves photonic excitation of the Hydrogen to a slightly higher valency level. The amount of energy that this requires is far below the energy requirements for evaporation where you get molecular fission of the water molecule. This is why most of the Oxygen is being trapped as Iron Oxide and the source water molecule rather than releasing to the atmosphere, will now require us to expend vast amounts of energy to seperate Oxygen from Iron rather than Oxygen from Hydrogen.

"The energy cost to produce a bottle of water on Mars just went up."

Because the valency energy change is most active at the equator, The Vallis Marineris is going to take the next eight billion years to cut the planetary permafrost glacier in half.

Of course this energy surges during solar cycles and drops back below the minimum energy required during off peak times.

seanrobertmeaney@bigpond.com.au

Considering that increased atmospheric pressure will lower the temperature of transition of all that ice to liquid, the sooner we get done dumping our coal reserves into the martian atmosphere, the better.

Joseph_Dunphy

Banned

From: Chicago

Registered: 2007-03-27

Posts: 6

Website

Re: The "White Mars" theory - CO2 not water

I have not seen much talk of the "White Mars" theory, which posits that all the so-called water flow sighted on Mars is nothing else than liquid and gaseous CO2 that has suddenly erupted (explosively) when underlying beds of frozen CO2 suddenly reach a critical warm temperature and explode. ...

(Sorry to be the skunk at the dinner party...)

Oh, don't be. Skepticism is a good thing. However ...

Let's take a look at what the triple point of carbon dioxide is. Notice that dry ice (frozen CO2) sublimes even in Earth's atmosphere, which is a lot thicker than Mars' atmosphere:

I was lazy and did a search instead of a trip to the library, but this source will probably be accurate:

http://chemmovies.unl.edu/chemistry/sma … SS071.html

A pressure of five atmospheres is cited, so if the ancient Martian atmosphere had a lower pressure than that, liquid CO2 would not have been stable on the surface, and some of these proposed riverbeds stretch for a good distance, something that one would not expect to see in a channel carved out by a liquid rapidly boiling off.

One might ask what this 5 times denser Martian atmosphere was composed of, because CO2 is known to be a greenhouse gas, and a CO2 atmosphere that thick would have made Mars a lot warmer, certainly more than warm enough to melt any water ice on the surface (if not vaporize it outright), I would guess. (Look at what 90 atmospheres or so worth of the stuff has done to Venus). Mars may be further out in the system than we are, but it's hardly circling Neptune. 

I would think that a white Mars scenario would actually be more remarkable than a wet Mars one.

noosfractal

Member

From: Biosphere 1

Registered: 2005-10-04

Posts: 824

Website

Re: The "White Mars" theory - CO2 not water

You'd also have to explain away this MARSIS result  ...

Plaut et al: South pole has enough water to cover planet
http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5287

---

Fan of [url=http://www.red-oasis.com/]Red Oasis[/url]