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#26 2021-04-29 10:06:04

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,297

Re: Companion fo Mars Expedition Number One; 17 crew members

For SpaceNut ... I found it difficult to restrain myself from posting in Oldfart1939's topic this morning.

It is highly likely that a forum member will get carried away with enthusiasm and post something in the primary topic.

With your permission, I will stand by to quickly move any accidental posts from the primary to the companion, using the copy/paste/delete method you have demonstrated.

I would like to invite Noah to open a similar set of topics for his 8 person concept.  The primary is where you would develop your version of an article for publication, while the companion is where members of the forum can assist with ideas, comments, constructive criticism and whatever else they are moved to offer.

Your Settlement Design topic needs to move back into its lane, which (from Post #1) is intended to focus on life ** after ** initial missions are history.

(th)

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#27 2021-04-29 10:09:10

tahanson43206
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Re: Companion fo Mars Expedition Number One; 17 crew members

For Oldfart1939 ...

I am making the assumption your 17 person crew is a landing party.

If you can arrange for one of RobertDyck's Large Ships to carry the expedition to Mars, you will have room for 120 personnel (or so) to provide support services of all kinds to the landing party.  That is a tried-and-true procedure followed by scientific expeditions in recent decades.  It would seem appropriate for your mission.

I am working on a proposal for RobertDyck to add magnetic shielding to his design, but haven't gotten beyond the sketch on a napkin stage.

(th)

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#28 2021-04-29 20:16:09

SpaceNut
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Re: Companion fo Mars Expedition Number One; 17 crew members

The plan for going to mars needs a manifest of what we take and quite possible how and when its to be used but it means we need a logistics person. Record keeping of what is made use of is part of the plan to be successful. Duties also includes the schedule for all to follow for the work load aspects for each day activities. They keep a watch on the calculated progression of these to make sure the timelines for key work has and is performed so that we are not working overtime to make up for difficulties that are unforeseen in the planned building and supply creation from insitu resources as we are needing these to survive on. They will monitor the supply replenishment from insitu resource and advise when we are askew to what is needed so that we can get assistance in hoe to get back on track.

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#29 2021-04-30 05:46:24

tahanson43206
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Re: Companion fo Mars Expedition Number One; 17 crew members

For SpaceNut re #28

Your post is an example of the kind of advice/suggestion/tip that Oldfart1939 might find helpful!

Every member is welcome and invited to contribute to the project by posting in the companion. 

At the same time, we can all watch the Primary topic with close attention, as Oldfart1939 adds content!

I have added a post in the Analog topic about a Science Fact article written by Michael F. Flynn, about the history of astronomy.

It is available for viewing by the public, thanks to the generosity of the author.  I hope to provide other examples of Science Fact articles in the near future.

SpaceNut, with your permission, I will try to assist by moving any posts that inadvertently show up in the Primary topic to the Companion, using the copy/paste/delete operation you demonstrated.

(th)

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#30 2021-05-01 18:06:04

SpaceNut
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Re: Companion fo Mars Expedition Number One; 17 crew members

Mars on a fast track of 185-200 days; stay on Mars as 550-575 days; return to Earth as 185-200 days. For grins, I'm estimating food for 2000 days

Am I getting something wrong with the total day count as the min is 920 with the max being 975 so no need for the 2000 as thats double the duration and while I agree that you should take a surplus I think that its over kill..

A good number might be 1200 to allow for extra food to be consumed and or wasted as needed to save on energy requirements...

Food for return will have a fresh quantity that will be attempted to be grown as well for when we go home.

https://www.mars-one.com/faq/health-and … and-oxygen

Each astronaut will be able to use about 50 liters of water per day. The water will be recycled

If going with an ISS level of recycling the real question is how long to you cycle the system so as to track the rate of what is waste that can not be recycled. The sabetier is also part of the co2 recycling along with that waste water to keep from losing more of it. With that system being somewhere near the 2 mT arena for a number of which its not a bad idea to bring 3 or four of them for spare parts and complete units to be used as needed. The electrolysis units from the ISS we have quite a bit of experience with as well to take along the way to mars. So plan to have extras for the same reason as for water recycling.

The big issue is the equipment to mine, move and other such items as to mass has a big question mark along side of them since we do not have much in battery operated as of yet and the fuels to make use of them come with a huge energy penalty.


No need to bring an extra hab as the ship will serve as that and the second ship if a starship can house all of the ISPP equipment and connection hoses to refuel the ship thats going home.

lets not get into the solar versus nuclear as we know that it takes 5 ships of panels and batteries to do the job as previously calculated. so bring only enough solar for ground crew work to bring power to equipment thats not connected to the ships grid.

Connection from the cargo starship is the source of power for the one that brings them to mars.

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#31 2021-05-01 18:13:50

SpaceNut
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Re: Companion fo Mars Expedition Number One; 17 crew members

Another cargo it should be a version of the lunar rover that Apollo program used of course modified for mars but basically its for exploring.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Roving_Vehicle

The Lunar Roving Vehicle had a mass of 460 pounds (210 kg), and was designed to hold a payload of 1,080 pounds (490 kg). This resulted in weights in the approximately one-sixth g on the lunar surface of 77 pounds-force (35 kgf) empty (curb weight) and 255 pounds-force (115.7 kgf) fully loaded (gross vehicle weight).

We should also make use of a few ingenuity helicopters to allow for advance scouting to be telerobotically done..

will also be needing to bring along well drilling stuff to see what we can find at depth along with backhoes, bulldozers, graters, dump trucks ect...

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#32 2021-05-01 18:25:34

SpaceNut
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Re: Companion fo Mars Expedition Number One; 17 crew members

louis wrote:

I don't deny the need for that skill range. I just feel that, for Mission One, they should be focussed on water ice mining, life support and launching the return Starship.

Oldfart1939 wrote:

Composition of the science triad:

(1) Chemist. The principal investigator will be doing sample analysis of many things: soil (regolith) samples from the surface and from excavated samples. Mineral specimens collected by the geologist/exploration triad will also be subjected to analysis. Water testing when found; is it potable (drinkable); what needs to be done to make it suitable for human consumption and bathing. Be in charge of starting an electrolysis system for production of Hydrogen and Oxygen. Monitor performance of this system. In charge of starting and operating the Sabatier reaction system

(2) Microscopist and biochemist. Examine samples for evidence of past bacterial and monocellular life forms. Do testing of samples for organic molecules that are related to life (as we know it) forms. Look for amino acids and other stable molecules of biological origin.

(3) Chemical technician. Will keep instrumentation working and do sample preparation. Keep working area clean from sample cross-contamination. Will do cataloguing of samples and results. Operate both electrolysis and Sabatier reactor systems and monitor performance.

This activity should be accomplished in  a standard 6 hour workday. Then the triad members will assist in construction labor and/or accompany the geology field triad for about 3-4 more hours. I am planning on a 6 Sol work week. I do not want the expedition to become burned out by overwork for 18 months on Mars.

There needs to be some time for EVERYONE  to get out and "go exploring."

Note added in Edit: I may require the principal Chemist to be a Chemical Engineer and at least a MS in Chemistry. Running the Sabatier and Electrolysis systems will be more of an engineering task than chemistry.

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#33 2021-05-01 19:22:17

SpaceNut
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Re: Companion fo Mars Expedition Number One; 17 crew members

Just found our newmars page with mars direct information numbers for mass manifest

http://wiki.newmars.com/index.php?title=Mars_Direct

for others that still have a need
http://wiki.newmars.com/index.php?title … ace_Travel

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#34 2021-05-02 00:14:41

Oldfart1939
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Re: Companion fo Mars Expedition Number One; 17 crew members

SpaceNut-

I think you missed my reason for having the huge surplus of food, which is a possible inability to return during the planned Hohman Transfer window. Could be a lot of reasons, which could be as simple as political upheaval on Earth or not manufacturing enough fuel to facilitate the journey.
Mark Watney nearly starved to death in The Martian and subsisted on potatoes.

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#35 2021-05-02 07:12:53

tahanson43206
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Re: Companion fo Mars Expedition Number One; 17 crew members

For Oldfart1939 re "how this is going"

The two topic format is an experiment, and I am encouraged by both your endorsement and the support of SpaceNut ...

The comments and suggestions that show up in Companion should help you to anticipate the (mental) questions and objections of your readers.

In ** normal ** writing for publication, the author gets no feedback at all in the first draft, and only the editor's comments after submission.

This real-time feedback experience may be a little bit "bumpy" (I'm not sure what word to use) but I can see some definite advantages if the right group is present, and if the author is able and willing to go with the flow.

In the case of the missed point revealed by SpaceNut, you now know that at least one person missed that point in your original presentation, so you can blend the reinforcement into the final version of your piece.

If there is another potential author in the group who would like to try this, I'm willing to help, and all indications are that SpaceNut will back us up.

As ** always ** ... if there is someone ** out there ** in the forum readership who is not yet a member, we are now in possession of 4652 refurbished User ID's kindly created for us by spammers from around the world.  While having that many members able and willing to contribute would tax the resources of the hardware at Mars Society, it should be manageable in the real world.

The reason I think that number of active, contributing members could work is the data base design.  It allows for concentration on one or two authors, or one or two posts.  At the present state of activity, I try to read every post, but occasionally I find a flurry of activity has occurred in a topic and I don't have time to keep up.  The topic remains available for review for when there is time.

To apply for membership, please read Post #2 of the Recruiting Topic, and then write to NewMarsMember * gmail.com with youe mini-essay compositions.

(th)

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#36 2021-05-02 16:12:27

SpaceNut
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Re: Companion fo Mars Expedition Number One; 17 crew members

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hohmann_transfer_orbit

here is our wiki page
https://marspedia.org/Hohmann_transfer

Thanks oldfart1939, for the explanation for the food, water and air numbers being so high.

The explanation as part of the cause for reasons of a delay in the use of the Hohmann Transfer window as happen in both directs.

The reasons for delay are different and would need to be in the plan so that it explains the change of values that are consumed and or required to preloaded or brought to mars by other means such as ion drive vehicles or to be parked in mars orbit.


The what if's are always the hardest things to plan into a mission profile.....

The launch window for persaverence was just 15 days wide
https://mars.nasa.gov/mars2020/timeline … h-windows/

the windows for launch each time have different durations for going to mars once we are in them

https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/edu/teach/acti … h-windows/

the next is in 2022 and so on every 2 years for launch from earth to mars.

https://pwg.gsfc.nasa.gov/stargaze/Smars3.htm
Flight to Mars: the Return Trip

https://commons.erau.edu/cgi/viewconten … roceedings
Launch Window Analysis for Round Trip Mars Missions

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_mission_to_Mars

here is when mars will be closest to earth cycle
File:Mars_close_appr.png


Something now for the science technology deployment is a unit that does a simular function of weather collection and reporting but with other features such as a live mast cam for the crew to view, powered by an RTG and with some solar so that when you visit a unit you can plug in an top off your batteries. Some of the instruments can be the same as used on the curiosity or persaverence rovers and Insight lander.

629

I would also add in com repeater functions and uplink antenna to add to the ability to send data and gain improved device communications to such things as telerobotic controlled items as in drone helicopters or airplanes.

https://www.weather.gov/fsd/mars

https://mars.nasa.gov/msl/spacecraft/instruments/rems/

http://cab.inta-csic.es/rems/marsweather.html

https://mars.nasa.gov/msl/weather/

here is the weather from perseverance for sunrise and set, air pressure, temperature, Mars sol for the rover and earth day
https://mars.nasa.gov/mars2020/weather/

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#37 2021-05-03 06:36:06

tahanson43206
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Re: Companion fo Mars Expedition Number One; 17 crew members

louis wrote:

While there's nothing wrong with having this skill set available, I am not sure how necessary it will be, as long as we run with the JPL recommended landing sites (boundary of Amazonis and Arcadia). Satellite observations reveal water ice is very close to surface near these landings sites. Essentially there are hillocks of ice with a relatively thin covering of ice.

You're making positive identification of water ice sources sound like a search for a needle in a haystack, which it definitely isn't.

We should be able to confirm the presence of the ice by releasing a couple of probe rovers from the cargo Starships that will precede the human pioneers. Let these rovers go to the prime sites and stick some probes into the regolith to confirm the presence of water ice near the surface. Maybe we could even have a robot digger present to uncover the ice itself.


Oldfart1939 wrote:

Geology Triad.

Hydrologist. Need this particular specialty for finding easily obtainable water and doing some seismic studies.
Stratigrapher. This is for determining which formations may yield fossils, and supports the work of hydrologist in finding water.
Minerologist. Finding usable minerals is extremely important for future development of Mars based industry.

All geologists will participate in seismic studies.

Post by Louis moved from Primary to Companion 2021/05/03 (th)

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#38 2021-05-03 09:12:28

Oldfart1939
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Posts: 2,221

Re: Companion fo Mars Expedition Number One; 17 crew members

Identification of water ice isn't necessarily the problem, but finding easily extractable water is advantageous. That's where these skills are invaluable.

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#39 2021-05-03 18:29:20

SpaceNut
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Re: Companion fo Mars Expedition Number One; 17 crew members

So far the 17 crew are split up into 3's

I can see leadership being a 3 legs and 3 shift plan for staff as thats 9 different crew that must have this roll daily.

Construction and maintenance triads is only 1 leg of the mission but is it going to be a 3 shift need or daylight scheduled activity?

Medical triad is a 3 legs and 3 shift plan for staff as thats 9 different crew that must have this roll daily but would we not want to limit the period of the day that each specialty happens for the "One Surgeon, one GP, cross trained as a dentist, and one nurse with Nurse Practitioner certification." Not to mention we will need exercise trainers to aid in fitness of health over the long haul of each leg of the mission. Plus we will need to be capable of sustained telemedicine on Mars use.

That said we need a list of equipment required to care for the crew....

Mission 1, Science has to have a very high priority
The Geologist triad is only 1 leg of the mission but is it going to be a 3 shift need or daylight scheduled activity?

Scientist triad is only 1 leg of the mission but is it going to be a 3 shift need or daylight scheduled activity?

These analysis group are the hardest ones to staff for the daily schedule since some of the time is mission exploration to get samples for the materials to test....for post 5

The real question is how much of this external work science outside of the habitat area can be performed by telerobotic means?

Something brought up in the settlement topic by Louis is the need for space ship inspection and repair of heat shield capability that seems to be a must. While we might be able to rig up a tripod with cameras for the inspection its going to take staging and or equipment to lift a crewman into position to make the repairs....

Damage to the ship would possibly mean a missed return home window and then some if unrepairable.

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#40 2021-05-03 18:44:10

tahanson43206
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Re: Companion fo Mars Expedition Number One; 17 crew members

For SpaceNut re #39

The military needs people on guard duty throughout 24 hours, because the enemy can show up at any time.

The military maintains readiness, but does not require everyone to be on a 24 hour schedule except when there is a genuine emergency.

My experience was that there was ** always ** at least one person awake at the battalion level, but otherwise the work day for most troops was pretty normal.

I'm having difficulty understanding why your vision of the landing party activities is so strenuous?

There is no enemy threat to content with ... Why not establish a "normal" workday with relaxation time and rest periods? 

The "workday" for an expedition that is moving is likely a different story on Earth ... but even there I'll bet that most of the time a "normal" pattern is followed. There might need to be someone on guard duty in bear territory, but that's not a typical situation.

(th)

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#41 2021-05-03 20:45:44

SpaceNut
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Re: Companion fo Mars Expedition Number One; 17 crew members

Both the ISS and a Submarine are close to what will be needed and then some for work scheduling as it takes quite a bit of time to maintain the space you are living in.....

Crewmembers are constantly checking support systems, cleaning filters and updating computer equipment.

"The most challenging part is coordinating the exercise times. Each crew member must receive 2.5 hours of exercise to maintain muscle tone and overall fitness. Arranging that around meals, projects and other required activities is tough."


crewmembers use a cycle ergometer (i.e. an exercise bike) for cardiovascular exercise, a treadmill for cardiovascular exercise – loading the skeletal system and maintaining the neuromuscular patterns for locomotion, and a Resistance Exercise Device for maintaining muscles and bones.

We would like this to not be the case but until we test at AG and levels near mars gravity its an unknown.

actual work-day for the crew. 6.5 hours of their day will be divided between conducting experiments, installing new payloads, executing repairs and “housekeeping

https://blogs.nasa.gov/stationreport/20 … t-6102020/

A submarine "day" lasts 18 hours and is split into three six-hour shifts. So a submariner may work for six hours and train, maintain equipment or sleep for 12 hours. Bunks are generally stacked three high.

Aboard United States submarines, the crew is typically divided into three sections, with each section keeping 8 hours of watch followed by 16 hours off-watch. This schedule has been a fairly recent change to submariner work and rest routines.

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#42 2021-05-04 00:21:43

Oldfart1939
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Re: Companion fo Mars Expedition Number One; 17 crew members

Thomas-
There are many reasons that there will be someone "on duty" around the clock. Since the entire colonial expedition will depend on electric power, oxygen, and monitoring of radiation, there will be someone monitoring the nuclear reactor and oxygen levels constantly. There needs to be a "fire watch," in case something does get out of kilter. Out of 17 members of the expedition, at least 2, and possibly 3, will remain alert at all times. This should be a rotating responsibility and all members will have "night shift" on a rotating schedule.
To ignore the concept of equipment failure is irresponsible.

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#43 2021-05-04 06:12:26

tahanson43206
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Re: Companion fo Mars Expedition Number One; 17 crew members

For Oldfart1939 and SpaceNut re crew schedule ....

In post #42, Oldfart1939 seems to envision a work schedule closer to what I would consider 'normal'.  The previous post #41, with links to examples of similar situations, shows how extreme the work schedule can become if it is considered necessary.

The schedule maintained by a submarine crew is optimized for efficient use of resources, as well as maintaining optimum alertness and capability.

At some point, Oldfart1939 will make a decision about how the work schedule will be organized, and the result will appear in the primary topic.

The feedback provided by Louis and SpaceNut is surely helpful as Oldfart1939 organizes his thoughts.  I am guardedly optimistic this new venture in the forum is going to actually work.

(th)

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#44 2021-05-04 19:05:43

SpaceNut
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Re: Companion fo Mars Expedition Number One; 17 crew members

repost from the settlement topic

louis wrote:

Is it tight? A minimum of 500 tonnes.

Energy system (nuclear or solar) - c 150 tons.

Habs - 10 tons

Food and LSS Supplies - 50 tons

Propellant plant facility - 20 tons?

Spare parts/feedstocks - 50 tons?

Medical supplies and equiipment - 20 tons?

Industrial 3D printers - 30 tons.

The limits of mission mass to mars I think is just the 1 or 2 ships though if we had deep pockets we could go for more...

louis wrote:

You've got plenty of spare tonnage for Rovers, robots etc. For Mission One, I'd like to see

x2 Human rated rovers (for exploration and mining activity) (6 tons?)

x4 Robot drillers  (4 tons)

x2 Robot diggers (2 tons)

x4 Robot transporters (8 tons)

x2 Boston Dynamics Robodogs adapted for Mars (0.5 tons?)

x2 Inspection Robots - for inspecting exterior of Starships. (0.1 tons)

We also need some method for getting humans into position if they need to repair a Starship e.g. repair heat shield tiles. Those crane platforms with hydraulic platforms that can reach up are pretty heavy duty. Fortunately winds on Mars are light. A better option might be to take bespoke scaffolding, that could be built over several weeks if necessary. One hopes it won't be necessary but we know heat shield tiles did become detached on the Space Shuttles, so we need some capability.  Scaffolding might come in at under 5 tons at a guess.


Robots could be designed to go and recharge their batteries as and when necessary. The alternative to using robots for mining say is pioneers changing into EVA suits and working out in the open. That will take up a lot more time.

SpaceNut wrote:

Robotics that can not keep its self powered up or maintained is adding work to the crew to make use of them...plus this increases that mass as to the variety of machines we would want to add in when the budget to get to mars and back is already tight....

Not many of the robotics are in the works and if we are sending these are precussor mission site building plans to support the landings of a starship we are going to need help with getting them designed.

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#45 2021-05-08 17:13:16

SpaceNut
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Re: Companion fo Mars Expedition Number One; 17 crew members

I agree with oldfart1939's assessment in post #42 that power upon landing is the primary system that must be started immediately as the onboard batteries will begin to empty quite quickly.

Solar even if we did a night time landing will take time to set up a field of panels to create enough power during the first solar day in question is very questionable for risk factors. Deployment of an array could be a secondary deployment effort.

That makes a nuclear version of KRUSTY the most probable solution as its only the time to move the unit to a site far enough from the ship with cables to connect inside a hole to shield the radiation that it will emit. Is a single full power 10kw unit enough or will we need to get more than one running to take over the power duties for the first day.

We do know that replenishing Oxygen and water are the next priorities to access once sufficient power to operate those systems are deployed.

Food comes next in the priority of things to make the base sustainable.

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#46 2021-05-08 22:01:21

kbd512
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Re: Companion fo Mars Expedition Number One; 17 crew members

In the Navy part of the ship's company is on duty at all times, but we follow a normal work day schedule, unless people are actively shooting at us.  In most cases, the day shift is responsible for cleaning the ship and fixing system casualties.  The night shift is mostly there to ensure that everything is operating correctly.  The bridge, engineering, combat, and radio are staffed at all times, better known as "being on watch".  After assuming the watch, the duties of the watch are carried out and activity logs are kept to record any notable events.  For Starship, I would expect all similar functions to be controlled from the ship's bridge, so only one person needs to be on watch at any given time.  Watches can be 4 to 12 hours in length.  Engineering watches tend to be shorter (because you can literally sweat to death) and bridge / combat / radio (all air conditioned spaces, little different from an office environment) watches tend to be longer.  A qualified substitute watchstander is on hand if the primary watchstander needs to eat or go to the bathroom, and providing periodic relief is a pretty standard practice for most watches.  Passing qualifications with high minimum scores is required before a crew member is permitted to assume a watch, and some require 100% correct responses before a qualification is issued for a particularly critical watch, such as reactor watches or emergency medical response teams or weapon systems.  From boot camp onward, you'll hear the words "attention to detail" quite often, and rightly so, as the details of a problem tend to matter.  In any event, the rest of the crew is free to clean the ship, repair system casualties, cook meals or wash clothes, conduct science experiments, and to explore the area around the ship after landing on Mars.

To qualify for a watch, there are written tests, oral tests where you have to answer multiple rapid-fire questions from a board of qualified personnel, and practical tests where you demonstrate your working knowledge of the equipment you're responsible for and proper responses to problems or casualties.  There are also regular re-qualifications where questions and scenarios become progressively more complex to test the ability of more senior personnel to prioritize problems correctly.  To get your air or surface warfare pin, it's a similar process, but they take you around to the various major systems installed aboard the aircraft or ship and basically open a fire hose of information where they explain in detail how the power / propulsion systems, electrical systems, combat systems, navigation systems, communications systems, etc all work and interact with each other.  You can easily wind up with entire notebooks filled with information, which another board will expect you to respond with upon asking.  They'll sit there and watch you demonstrate the use of a sextant for navigation, for example, or how to assess the material condition of a backup generator.  The ultimate goal is that you be able to teach other sailors what you know, and to take over for them if they're killed in action.  In short, the learning and the drills never stop during the entire time you're in the service.  In addition to that, they're also fond of conducting drills where no matter what you do, there's no way to "win", just to see how you handle failure.  They want to know that no matter what happens, you won't stop trying to resolve the problem.

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#47 2021-05-09 06:29:57

tahanson43206
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Re: Companion fo Mars Expedition Number One; 17 crew members

For kbd512 #46

Thanks for your review of shipboard procedures, including constant training and testing for all ratings. 

A scientific expedition may have quite a bit in common with the traditions you describe, in the sense that there is (usually or often) a ship involved, and that ship has a crew that delivers the science team to the work site.

I understand that in Oldfart1939's primary topic, he is thinking of making the landing party and the ship's crew one and the same.

It'll be interesting (to me for sure) to see how Oldfart1939 develops his crew manifest.  He provided an outline with his triads of interwoven skill sets.

I'll have to go back to the primary topic to see if he included any of the elements you've described in his descriptions of crew responsibilities.

Question for you ... Aside from Oldfart1939's special case, would you recommend selecting crew members with military background, and the proven ability to accept a level of discipline comparable to your description of live aboard a US vessel?

Here is Oldfart1939's outline of crew responsibilities ...

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 39#p179239

I note he referred to "somewhat military" organization. 

(th)

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#48 2021-05-09 06:59:27

louis
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From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 6,858

Re: Companion fo Mars Expedition Number One; 17 crew members

Isn't there always a danger of someone falling asleep if it's just a single person watch especially in a zero G environment where you don't have standing or walking to keep you awake?  I've always favoured a two person watch for both transit and during the surface stay.

kbd512 wrote:

watch".  After assuming the watch, the duties of the watch are carried out and activity logs are kept to record any notable events.  For Starship, I would expect all similar functions to be controlled from the ship's bridge, so only one person needs to be on watch at any given time.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#49 2021-05-09 07:11:45

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 6,858

Re: Companion fo Mars Expedition Number One; 17 crew members

Assuming a Space X mission, I don't foresee any difficulties. You'll have at least 4 cargo Starships in the vicinity. Each of those will have their own solar power and battery systems. Your human lander will be continuing to generate power from its substantial solar power arrays. If as I suggested you have robot rovers deployed at the surface (from lower storage points) if there is an issue with power, the robot rovers can deliver battery power to neighbouring Starships. I have also recommend you would arrive with perhaps 30 tons of charged batteries on board - so 9000 KwHes immediately available on arrival (exlcuding the Starship's internal battery array).  ATK solar arrays could be deployed by robot rovers before humans move off the Starship.

I envisage the pioneers disembarking via pressurised rover. The rover, or a robot rover, could then tow the first hab, a  Bigelow style inflatable hab, to the desired location, where it would be inflated. The first hab would be small and provide temporary or emergency accommodation. Maybe not all the crew would be living there. Maybe it would just be a 4 person hab. Some would stay on the Starship. The purpose of the first hab would be provide an operational base, from which construction of the solar power facilitiy and the second, much larger hab with double air locks could be undertaken.


SpaceNut wrote:

I agree with oldfart1939's assessment in post #42 that power upon landing is the primary system that must be started immediately as the onboard batteries will begin to empty quite quickly.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#50 2021-05-10 18:48:44

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,078

Re: Companion fo Mars Expedition Number One; 17 crew members

If space x builds it and does not sell anything then they are in a losing battle with trying to do this all on there own as they have not designed anything for the scale of the starships use.

Something in regards to electronic operated valves and switches is to make a analog valve bypass system along with gages and switches as we can ill afford anything that can not be operated when needed on mars.

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