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#26 2019-10-04 18:11:14

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 6,858

Re: Language Preservation

"My expectation is that EVERY person who speaks a particular language considers that language to be superior to all others, and furthermore, that they are motivated to preserve it. "

What an absurd statement! Yes we all have an emotional attachment to our mother tongue but there are plenty of rational people on this planet who can see that languages other than their own are superior in this sense: they enable many more activities (like advanced technology and science) and have many more  ways of expressing complex ideas. Basically the English language is superior to all other languages on Planet Earth. It covers virtually all human activity and it is the epicentre of all new word/concept creation. Other languages like  French, German, Spanish, Chinese and Hindi only "keep up" with English by borrowing wholesale from English or formally converting English words into new words in their own language. 

tahanson43206 wrote:

For IanM re #23

Thank you for picking up on the intention of this topic ... It was initiated when I read a report of amazing (very hard) work done by volunteers to create a written representation of a language spoken by several million people. 

I did not expect the response that occurred initially, but accept that the topic of language is a sensitive one for some folks. 

My expectation is that EVERY person who speaks a particular language considers that language to be superior to all others, and furthermore, that they are motivated to preserve it.  My intention in starting this topic was to facilitate a discussion of how language preservation may best be accomplished in a backup site such as Mars promises to be.

It seems to me that IF (a BIG if) the United States is the lead nation in settlement of Mars, then English would have a good chance of being known to a useful degree by everyone who travels there, but (in my opinion) EVERY language whose adherents travel to Mars deserves an opportunity to be remembered and spoken at home or school or (other institution) without objection by any other human being.

As it happens, a full scale My Hacienda community on Earth would be a good proving ground for the UN concept you've outlined.

Google Translate is already able to perform what seem to me to be astonishing feats of near-instantaneous translation of text, and (I'll bet) translation from live speech is coming along.

Thanks again!
(th)

Last edited by louis (2019-10-05 06:37:23)


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#27 2019-10-05 06:32:59

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,298

Re: Language Preservation

For SpaceNut and other Moderators ...

The following edit was added to the header post for this topic:

Edit: 2019/10/05 The intention of this topic is to develop strategies to help Earth citizens to preserve and perhaps even expand their native languages in a backup civilization on Mars.  The discussion triggered responses by online personalities who chose to express themselves in ways that I perceive to be small-minded, parochial, mean spirited and self defeating.  Those responses DO NOT represent this topic in any way, shape or form.

For those who will be drawn to this topic in the future, I invite you to overlook the messages which do not meet the requirements for this topic, and instead make helpful contributions of your own to advance the project.

Ultimately, I want to see every language that still exists on Earth today reflected in a thriving community on Mars and other backup locations.

The crimes committed against speakers of some languages on Earth in past centuries are enormous and (most probably) beyond reckoning.

Such crimes are STILL in progress on Earth in 2019, despite a slowly growing understanding of the harm being done.

In particular, some Native American tribes are trying to bring their native languages back to life, after 200 years of extinction attempts by members of a particular ethnic/language group. 

I invite speakers of languages who wish to preserve them to help move this topic along.

(th)

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#28 2019-10-05 06:41:37

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 6,858

Re: Language Preservation

My grandmother used to be beaten for speaking Welsh in school, so I know all about language oppression.

But what possible purpose is there in preserving all existing languages on Mars? I can't think of one. You might as well as say all arts and crafts from all around Earth must be continued on Mars. It's just as logical, or rather illogical/sentimental.

I am strongly of the view that the Mars community should be creating a new society on Mars, one that has no place for war and conflict and that creates an essentially unified and advanced human culture. Importing every single language from Earth is not the way to go about doing that in my view.

tahanson43206 wrote:

For SpaceNut and other Moderators ...

The following edit was added to the header post for this topic:

Edit: 2019/10/05 The intention of this topic is to develop strategies to help Earth citizens to preserve and perhaps even expand their native languages in a backup civilization on Mars.  The discussion triggered responses by online personalities who chose to express themselves in ways that I perceive to be small-minded, parochial, mean spirited and self defeating.  Those responses DO NOT represent this topic in any way, shape or form.

For those who will be drawn to this topic in the future, I invite you to overlook the messages which do not meet the requirements for this topic, and instead make helpful contributions of your own to advance the project.

Ultimately, I want to see every language that still exists on Earth today reflected in a thriving community on Mars and other backup locations.

The crimes committed against speakers of some languages on Earth in past centuries are enormous and (most probably) beyond reckoning.

Such crimes are STILL in progress on Earth in 2019, despite a slowly growing understanding of the harm being done.

In particular, some Native American tribes are trying to bring their native languages back to life, after 200 years of extinction attempts by members of a particular ethnic/language group. 

I invite speakers of languages who wish to preserve them to help move this topic along.

(th)


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#29 2019-10-05 09:06:53

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,078

Re: Language Preservation

Not to get the topic off track but that came in ww2 when code talkers were used as the indian language  was not very known over the world and was used to transmit messages so the enemy would not know what was happening.
I would hope that when we go to mars its for another reason as its about book marking history for the future.

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#30 2021-09-10 07:50:32

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 884

Re: Language Preservation

Each year there are many papers published on lingusitics,  about where langauge and Culture might go, ideas published about Future in Thought, how Verbs and syntax and grammar might 'evole' or de-evolve for want of a batter term ideas about where the world will go and 'Future Language

Maybe the machines will help save this dying part of humanity

AI language  Robot Software models with algorithms fluent in German, Italian, Spanish, and English?

https://www.wired.com/story/ai-write-en … languages/

The AI can write!!


Endangered languages? There are lots of endangered Native indigenous languages going extict, I personally would have no reason to send multi lingual speakers to Mars, I feel it would become a distraction out of one of the many other important things to do to keep a colony running. Do languages go extinct, yes, is it a bad thing, yes it is.
A 2018 study projected that the percentage of Quebecers who speak French at home will drop from 82 per cent in 2011 to about 75 per cent in 2036.

Terraformer wrote:

If the Chinese are the first to reach Mars, then according to Louis, it should become a Han colony, and the language will be Chinese. The Chinese living there will gain the right, by being the first, to exclude everyone else from the entire planet.

Mars might have a new Blade Runner type language, a mongrel mix of other languages. As for right now the only tow nations to have functional craft operate on Mars are the United States and China.

As of now the official language of Mars might become Chinglish some Anglo-Sino-Amerioca dialect and Singlish, in the real world these terms are sometimes used to describe mixed dialects of English & Chinese.

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