Mueller's Russian Investigation

SpaceNut · 2019-03-24 17:14:47

While there is a ton of evidence that matters its the level to which it does not rise to for a purposeful indictment of a crime thou what was done is just that. As such it Stops Short of Exonerating President while sitting as the president but not later. Of course lots of smoking guns surround the president for the collusion and for obstruction.

Attorney General William Barr summarized the key findings of special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation, which is little more than his opinion in which Barr authored a memo last year ruling out obstruction of justice..

After making a “thorough factual investigation” into these matters, the Special Counsel considered whether to evaluate the conduct under Department standards governing prosecution and declination decisions but ultimately determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment. The Special Counsel therefore did not draw a conclusion — one way or the other — as to whether the examined conduct constituted obstruction. Instead, for each of the relevant actions investigated, the report sets out evidence on both sides of the question and leaves unresolved what the Special Counsel views as “difficult issues” of law and fact concerning whether the President’s actions and intent could be viewed as obstruction. The Special Counsel states that “while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.”
The Special Counsel's investigation determined that there were two main Russian efforts to influence the 2016 election. The first involved attempts by a Russian organization, the Internet Research Agency (IRA), to conduct disinformation and social media operations in the United States designed to sow social discord, eventually with the aim of interfering with the election. As noted above, the Special Counsel did not find that any U.S. person or Trump campaign official or associate conspired or knowingly coordinated with the IRA in its efforts, although the Special Counsel brought criminal charges against a number of Russian nationals and entities in connection with these activities.
The second element involved the Russian government's efforts to conduct computer hacking operations designed to gather and disseminate information to influence the election. The Special Counsel found that Russian government actors successfully hacked into computers and obtained emails from persons affiliated with the Clinton campaign and Democratic Party organizations, and publicly disseminated those materials through various intermediaries, including WikiLeaks. Based on these activities, the Special Counsel brought criminal charges against a number of Russian military officers for conspiring to hack into computers in the United States for purposes of influencing the election.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/russia- … d=57427441

kbd512 · 2019-03-24 19:25:31

Let me translate that: In the words of Peter Strzok to Lisa Page, "There's no there there."

The people making the claims need to provide evidence to support their claims or they need to stop making claims without evidence. In this country, if you accuse someone of committing a crime, then you'd better have evidence. Sorry folks, nothing to see here. Just more political games to distract the voting public from the very real issues facing our country.

louis · 2019-03-24 19:44:45

If I was an American I would be arguing that the investigation needs to be investigated. How did these allegations come into circulation? Was it a coincidence the allegations were being promoted by people associated with the "5 Eyes" (US, Canada, UK, Australia, and NZ spy agencies). Remember it is ex CIA head John Brennan who has been the most rabid of anti-Trump haters. Someone was organising this attempted coup d'etat. It didn't happen by accident. The pattern to me is clear: it was decided that because of Hillary's vulnerability over the server scandal a counterweight had to be found for Trump. It was too dangerous for this to be internally generated within the USA (too many fingerprints when it came to a FISA application), so the job was sub-contracted to "friends" in the 5 Eyes (with of course the usual "deniability" built in). I think this could only have happened with extremely high authority - either the President or the head of an agency like the CIA.

kbd512 wrote:

Let me translate that: In the words of Peter Strzok to Lisa Page, "There's no there there."
The people making the claims need to provide evidence to support their claims or they need to stop making claims without evidence. In this country, if you accuse someone of committing a crime, then you'd better have evidence. Sorry folks, nothing to see here. Just more political games to distract the voting public from the very real issues facing our country.

kbd512 · 2019-03-24 20:31:46

Louis,

It probably should be, but I'm more interested in the good of our country than prosecuting politi-criminals for their petty crimes. We have real problems that we need President Trump, Congress, and Judiciary to focus on. If the regressive leftists wish to criticize him ad nauseam for not sharing their worldview of anything and everything, that's fine, but they're only hurting our ability to move forward. The administrations of the former Presidents Bush and Obama were profoundly criminal in nature, yet nobody was ever prosecuted for their crimes, nor will they ever be.

All of this started with the Steele Dossier that was originally funded by Republicans and then used by Democrats as a political weapon to smear President Trump and redirect public attention away from the criminal activities of former President Obama's administration, such as the sale of our Uranium to RosAtom and sale of weapons to drug cartel members and assorted terrorist groups in the Middle East. The FBI knew from the word "go" (these would be people who despise President Trump), that the Steele Dossier was a total fabrication concocted by other people who despised President Trump for purely partisan political reasons. Now that President Trump has been investigated longer than he's held political office and the entire world knows it was a partisan political fraud, I think it's time to move on. Both the Republicans and the Democrats need to get off it already. America doesn't need any more of this nonsense, as it will only hurt both political parties in the end.

I want this President and Congress to focus their efforts on our plethora of energy / infrastructure / jobs / border security / over-criminalization of everything in an absurdly litigious society- death by regulation / geo-political problems and inability to solve problems without starting pointless wars. There are too many problems to spend another second on non-existent problems or problems we don't intend to solve.

louis · 2019-03-24 20:49:58

I think the threat is more insidious than you allow. The PC globalist leftists aren't just engaged in political games, they are looking to capture state power permanently (it is the "permanency" which differentiates them from the past, makes them non-democrats and allies them more with totalitarian movements). The Democrats are clearly aiming to move to the popular vote, enlarge and stuff the Supreme Court with leftists, use agencies like the FBI to intimidate political opponents, use Antifa to suppress free speech, liquidate your country's borders and create a media monopoly (there are worrying signs they are moving in on Fox News).

kbd512 wrote:

Louis,
It probably should be, but I'm more interested in the good of our country than prosecuting politi-criminals for their petty crimes. We have real problems that we need President Trump, Congress, and Judiciary to focus on. If the regressive leftists wish to criticize him ad nauseam for not sharing their worldview of anything and everything, that's fine, but they're only hurting our ability to move forward. The administrations of the former Presidents Bush and Obama were profoundly criminal in nature, yet nobody was ever prosecuted for their crimes, nor will they ever be.
All of this started with the Steele Dossier that was originally funded by Republicans and then used by Democrats as a political weapon to smear President Trump and redirect public attention away from the criminal activities of former President Obama's administration, such as the sale of our Uranium to RosAtom and sale of weapons to drug cartel members and assorted terrorist groups in the Middle East. The FBI knew from the word "go" (these would be people who despise President Trump), that the Steele Dossier was a total fabrication concocted by other people who despised President Trump for purely partisan political reasons. Now that President Trump has been investigated longer than he's held political office and the entire world knows it was a partisan political fraud, I think it's time to move on. Both the Republicans and the Democrats need to get off it already. America doesn't need any more of this nonsense, as it will only hurt both political parties in the end.
I want this President and Congress to focus their efforts on our plethora of energy / infrastructure / jobs / border security / over-criminalization of everything in an absurdly litigious society- death by regulation / geo-political problems and inability to solve problems without starting pointless wars. There are too many problems to spend another second on non-existent problems or problems we don't intend to solve.

louis · 2019-03-24 21:02:34

32:20

Greg Jarrett who has been right about most things re this investigation points the finger at John Brennan...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oztTMPLqnZw

kbd512 · 2019-03-25 05:45:19

Louis,

While I appreciate the concern, and certain aspects of what happened to President Trump are very troubling, our current crop of regressives are utterly incapable of running a lemonade stand, let alone the United State of America. They keep proving it every time they're elected, for all the world to see. Unfortunately, our regressives (both left and right of political center) are moving further and further away from our founding principles- the principles that made life as we know it possible to begin with and which have granted unto the American people the blessings of freedom and liberty. As those elected officials and their ideologically divergent supporters part company with the ethos, values, and ideals of ordinary "Salt of the Earth" Americans, they will increasingly alienate ordinary Americans with their divisiveness and their support will swiftly erode as a result.

I wouldn't put anything past a politician, but if anyone tells you that the President of the United States is colluding with the Russians or Chinese to steal an election or do much of anything else, then they'd better have ironclad evidence to support such an accusation. In general, politicians are not to be trusted. The claim was so incendiary specifically because the American people are distrustful of politicians and government in general, as well they should be. Our media, instead of maintaining any standards of objectivity or skepticism of wild claims without evidence, completely shirked their duty to do their due diligence on the evidence presented, or lack thereof, and decided to pour gasoline on the embers of public distrust in government by engaging in partisan political rhetoric. That goes for all of them- CNN, CBS, Fox News, MSNBC, etc... That's why I haven't bothered to watch any of it.

President Trump, former President Obama, and former President Bush were all duly elected by the American people. Whether you agree with any of their policies or like them, personally, is an entirely different matter that has no bearing whatsoever on the outcomes of elections.

The Democrat Party faithful are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. They're being psychologically abused by the people they trust, but don't know how to get away from their abusers- namely their radical regressive college professors, media personalities, celebrities, and politicians who keep promising a better tomorrow through this nonsensical and sociopathic socialism idea that has never worked at all or ever anywhere on planet Earth whenever humans were involved. Meanwhile, those same regressive politicians they elect rob them blind, encourage them to murder their children (perhaps the sickest idea of all), and spare no attempt to destroy the societal and economic engines that feeds / clothes / houses all of them and gives them a sense of belonging and humanity.

After reading all that, you might think I dislike our fellow Americans who identify as Democrats. I'm no fan of regressive politicians masquerading as Democrats, but the people in their party are generally very sophisticated and quite unlike the people they elect to represent them. Our civilization requires their creativity and divergent thought to grow and thrive. At the same time, we need a sort of sophisticated "guidance system" for them to employ that steers them away from collectivist ideologies and abusive indoctrinators that invariably murders them any time collectivism is actually implemented by the politicians they elect. Since they are so intelligent and creative, they're the first to become disillusioned with such forms of governance after they get what they think they want. Some of them have the insane idea that they're still free to speak their minds under these collectivist regimes, which is never the case, and that ultimately leads to their demise.

Venezuela immediately comes to mind as the latest abject failure of socialism. The people there, and some of our own American leftists who went there in a show of support for the Venezuelan people, thought they were free to protest the inexcusably poor treatment of the Venezuelan people at the hands of the socialist / communist Venezuelan government. The Venezuelan Police shot some of those people dead and maimed many others. They then said that they were "shocked" by what happened. I'm not. I've seen this with my own two eyes in a communist / socialist country (China) and that lesson has stuck with me to this day. There was never any doubt in my mind about what was going to happen. The psychological abuse swiftly turns to physical abuse the moment the socialist / communist government believes that those subjected to its tyranny don't have the means to resist.

It just sickens me to know that the same people who most fervently believe that our government ever could or would solve everyone's personal problems, if only we had some magical benevolent form of collectivism as our governance principles and the "right people" were in charge, will be the very first people who are treated as if their lives were worthless.

All that said, I still have unshakable faith in my fellow Americans, whether they're smarter than the average bear or not, hold liberal or conservative values, have an unhealthy fascination with what shall become communist / socialist / totalitarian ideology in practice- ultimately, none of that matters to me. They're my countrymen and I value them all as such. After we've tried everything else that doesn't work and admit to ourselves that it didn't work, then eventually we'll do the right thing. We always have and we always will.

GW Johnson · 2019-03-25 11:52:13

According to AG Barr, what Mueller actually said was (1) no evidence of actual active collusion/conspiracy/pick-a-word with Russia, to try to sway the election, and (2) no evidence that indicates obstruction of justice and no evidence to exonerate from obstruction of justice.

Those two apply to a charter that said (1) determine whether and how Russia interfered in the 2016 election (answer: yes, by fake info mostly on social media), (2) did they have help from anybody in the US doing it? (answer: no evidence for or against anyone in Trump's people doing that), and (3) if any other crimes are uncovered, either file charges or refer to DOJ or other authorities (he did).

It looks like the Mueller investigation uncovered nothing impeachable. Fine. But remember, there are something like 17 other investigations going on besides Mueller's. Those have yet to conclude. Those exist because of egregious behavior by Trump, meaning he brought this on himself. The same way Nixon and Bill Clinton did, within my living memory, and Andrew Jackson did, well before my time.

Myself, I think the damage Trump has done to our alliances, by insulting the leaders of our allied countries (and our intelligence services) while cozying-up to the likes of Putin, is very likely treason of the "aid and comfort" type, or close enough to it, to warrant impeachment.

One former security official lost his clearance for saying so publicly. I happen to have agreed with him. I didn't like what I saw Trump doing, and I still don't. The bad he has done certainly outweighs the good, regarding foreign policy, such as it is.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2019-03-25 11:56:19)

kbd512 · 2019-03-25 14:27:46

GW,

Prosecutors aren't in the exoneration business because that's not part of their job description. Any honest and non-partisan Attorney General reserves the right to prosecute anyone for anything they think could later be construed as a crime if new evidence is found. In short, prosecutors prosecute people because that's the dictionary definition of their job. Only judges and juries can exonerate people and only if a case is actually brought to trial. Please stop buying into the Democrat-run media's verbal gymnastics of twisting words and phraseology around to mean something other than what it actually means. There are two people in the entire world who can answer the question of what that phraseology meant. I really think it's high time we trouble ourselves to actually ask the people who wrote that before jumping to incorrect conclusions about what they meant. Thus far, we've done a bang-up job of jumping to conclusions that later turned out to be incorrect.

You dislike President Trump because you dislike his personal behavior. I get. Honestly, I do. He's not the most likable person on the planet. As long as he does his job well, I'm okay with that. There were lots of things about the behavior of former President Obama and former President Bush that I disliked. I didn't accuse them of treason without evidence, as you've done multiple times and continue to do to President Trump. It's almost as if the outcome of the Mueller investigation wasn't a "teachable moment" for you, as former President Obama would say. The other investigations you referenced are mounting evidence of a "get Trump by any means necessary campaign", rather than any legitimate attempt to enforce the nation's laws. If half as much effort was devoted to prosecuting Hillary Clinton for theft of classified material, then she'd have been sitting in jail long before Bernie Sanders lost the run-off election.

Personally, I think President Trump's statements directed towards a few of our allies' leaders were spot-on. Our job is not to protect their countries from every ill-advised economic and defense decision that they can possibly make. The US is not an impenetrable shield to go run and hide behind after egregiously poor decisions are repeatedly made over the course of decades. At some point, some level of responsibility and accountability is necessary. We've offered nearly every possible mechanism and tool with which to adequately deter aggression against them from foreign powers like Russia, yet they still don't want to bite the bullet and pay for defense agreements that their governments signed. If they don't like what we're selling, for whatever reason, then they're welcome to roll their own- and some have. Either way, treaties and agreements that are not adhered to no longer have any meaning. We share just about everything that isn't a deep black super secret squirrel program with them. Do they reciprocate and fund their own defense to adequate levels? Very few have. There's a dangerous normalcy bias at play here that our enemies are taking advantage of. Meanwhile, Russia is busily engaging in military adventurism in eastern Europe. Former President Obama's only response to the Russians was "cut it out"... As if strongly worded rhetoric and dirty looks were going to affect the Russians' behavior? Reality check, please.

Sometimes very ugly things need to be said to the people you cherish most to prevent them from literally jumping off a cliff. Love doesn't always get the job done. If it did, there wouldn't be any wars on our little planet. Put in much simpler terms, there's only so much wealth you can siphon off from the US before there's no more shield to run and hide behind if the Russians or Chinese are feeling froggy.

Under President Trump our military turned the airbase that launched the aircraft that gassed their own civilians into a smoking hole in the ground, our artillery and close air support laid waste to a couple of companies of Russian Spetsnaz and contractors who were dumb enough to try to attack one of our FOB's in Syria, we're arming and training the Ukrainians to get rid of the Russians in Ukraine, ISIS is just a nasty memory, he tore up the short range nuke treaty after it was blatantly obvious that the Russians weren't following it, and North Korea got an eye-full of what a full scale military invasion would look like. The sanctions on the Russians today are stronger than they've ever been after Germany decided to start playing ball.

President Trump went into the job thinking we just had some sort of deal making issues with our adversaries and the job quickly taught him that there's no misunderstanding between us- we just have viewpoints and objectives that are fundamentally in opposition to theirs. At times I wonder if the same is true of some of our allies in Europe, but I do my best to banish those thoughts, give our allies the benefit of the doubt, and move forward. That said, when our allies flatly refuse to present a unified front in the face of our enemies, they are not our allies. There are no neutral parties in fox holes.

Our allies and our last administration stood by and did absolutely nothing after that animal gassed his own people in Syria. President Trump effectively carpet bombed the airbase with 2,000 pound warheads on Tomahawks and not a word of honest support except from our most stalwart allies, like the United Kingdom and Australia and South Korea. If we can't even get everyone onboard with "no matter what happens in a country politically, it's never acceptable to gas your own civilians with chemical weapons", then what does that say about our alliances?

I think you're right, though. We have a fundamental point of disagreement about what's been going on.

louis · 2019-03-25 15:12:56

It was under Obama's watch that the USA became dependent on Russian - repeat Russian - rocket launches. Can you imagine how that would have been spun had it happened under Trump?!

EdwardHeisler · 2019-03-25 15:26:57

Long before Barr became Attorney General and even longer before the report was delivered he publicly said that Donald Trump could not be found guilty of obstructing justice!

He is Trumps lapdog Attorney General.

Case closed …. on Barr's impartiality.

EdwardHeisler · 2019-03-25 15:36:55

louis wrote:

It was under Obama's watch that the USA became dependent on Russian - repeat Russian - rocket launches. Can you imagine how that would have been spun had it happened under Trump?!

It has happened under Trump. A decision was made in 2014 under President Obama, not Trump, to hire outside contractors to send U.S. astronauts to the somewhat International Space Station.

November 20, 2015

SpaceX received orders Friday from the US space agency to send astronauts to the International Space Station in the coming years, helping restore US access to space, NASA said.

The announcement was a formal step in a process that began earlier this year when Boeing was given the nod by NASA to send crew to the orbiting outpost by late 2017.

Both Boeing and SpaceX have received billions in seed money from NASA to restore American access to the ISS, after the US space shuttle program was retired in 2011.

The announcement of $4.2 billion for Boeing and $2.6 billion for SpaceX was made in September 2014.

Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2015-11-nasa-spac … s.html#jCp

kbd512 · 2019-03-25 16:07:40

EdwardHeisler,

If AG Barr lied about or otherwise misrepresented what was contained in Mueller's report, don't you think he'd have an awfully hard time explaining that to Congress when both he and former FBI Director Mueller are called to testify before Congress?

Any misrepresentation of the report on the part of AG Barr would go over like a lead balloon. Last time I checked, lying to Congress is a felony when you're a Republican. If you're a Democrat or your last name is Clinton, then it might be acceptable. Since AG Barr is neither of those, he'd find himself in jail if he misrepresented what was in the report. Who knows, we might even waste another $25M of taxpayer money on another obvious fraud, only to discover that there's no there there.

Edit #1:

Edward, tell you what. I don't really know much about who Barr is and I don't trust anyone I don't know, Democrat, Republican, or otherwise. On the possibility that you're right, let's wait and see what happens when both men are called to testify to Congress instead of pre-judging the outcome of the hearings. Strike the ill-advised off-the-cuff remark I made earlier. Let's just see what happens.

Last edited by kbd512 (2019-03-25 16:23:23)

SpaceNut · 2019-03-25 17:07:52

louis wrote:

It was under Obama's watch that the USA became dependent on Russian - repeat Russian - rocket launches. Can you imagine how that would have been spun had it happened under Trump?!

That snowball started before Obama when Bush declared that the space shuttle was to unsafe for everyday use, that its cost to recertify them would not change that concern. We did take rides up during that stand down time of the shuttle investigations and would sometimes send one crewman down as needed for health reasons.

SpaceNut · 2019-03-25 17:09:15

EdwardHeisler wrote:

Long before Barr became Attorney General and even longer before the report was delivered he publicly said that Donald Trump could not be found guilty of obstructing justice!
He is Trumps lapdog Attorney General.
Case closed …. on Barr's impartiality.

Sort of the main reason that both sides of the aisle have called for the real deal and not a summary opinion as to what it contains.

SpaceNut · 2019-03-25 17:31:48

kbd512 thank you for your post # 207 as its spot on to the question of whom do we trust.
Also the second paragraph of post 209 is also quite on as well with Trumps behaviour. Hillary as well was shielded from the main crime as well since it was marked after the fact for security and was seen as not rising to the level of a crime as well. We have become the worlds police force in making nations behave correctly towards there people and we should have stepped in soon on Syria and not needed ISSI to get involved. Terror assaults is still terror even when its civil in a nations borders.

As far as rising to the level of crime comes back to the definitions of what crime constitutes whats required to convict with.
Russian Collusion which is a behaviour. We did see lots of the smoking guns from many a fired campaign personnel but what is lacking is the victums body to say whom was shot as its not enough to have the gun power trace on the holders hands saying that the gun was fired. This is the problem with collusion but there is plenty of conspiracy to do just that but its lacking other than the one time he hoped the Russians would find the 30,000 missing Hillary emails albiet jokenly as proported to have been the conotation. Its not enough to say things if not meaning what they would or could mean as it requires more in light of the video era of cellphones, facebook live suicides and more it takes more to rise to the ability to charge the crime was comitted level for the seated President. He has plenty of people that have taken the bullet for him in this regard.

As for the next election Hillary and Bernie need to just shut up at this point and go away.

kbd512 · 2019-03-25 17:34:20

SpaceNut,

I agree. Let's give the report to the Congress. The House and Senate intelligence committees, at a minimum, have the security clearances required to read the entire un-redacted report. There may be some intelligence-related stuff the public isn't allowed to see, but we should at least get the basis for former FBI Director Mueller's findings and his conclusions. I can't think of any reason why, apart from names of intelligence sources or programs, that that would need to be classified. If something has been struck from the report, then there needs to be a citation explaining that it was for national security reasons and won't be released to the public without proper authority to do so.

That said, I'm also tired of Nunez (for President Trump), Schiff (against President Trump), et al, from all outward appearances, lying their rear ends off about evidence they don't have and, in all probability, have never had. If anyone had evidence, then Special Counsel should have had access to it. So... Let's allow this process to play out instead of making any more wild partisan political claims without evidence. I'm sick of the lies and innuendo from both sides. If this report doesn't have the proof of whatever that the Democrats or Republicans claim is or isn't there, then I want to know why not.

GW Johnson · 2019-04-02 11:54:05

Unless Mr. Barr lied to us, it would seem within Mueller's charter that (1) he did not find evidence to support a case "beyond reasonable doubt" that Mr. Trump or his coterie actually conspired to cooperate with Russia with intent to commit fraud or a crime against the US, and (2) that there was not sufficient evidence to warrant indictment for obstruction of justice; although, the explicit statement that this was not an exoneration carries the implication that there was at least some evidence of obstruction, just not enough to bring a case at the "beyond reasonable doubt" standard.

That's the end of the Mueller thing, unless future disclosures reveal Mr. Barr lied in his summary. I rather doubt that, myself. That is a disappointment to the more extreme leftists in the Dem party, but not so much to the more mainstream members. Unlike the R's, the D's are not (yet, anyway) dominated by their extremist elements. The extremists make a lot more noise, but so far, it's all sound and fury signifying nothing. I cannot say that in truthfulness about the R's anymore.

But, don't forget that there are plenty of other investigations going on, some 17 last I heard, although that picture seems to shift daily. Some of these are likely witch hunts, others are not. We'll see, as they all grind to their conclusions. Mr. Trump has no one to blame but himself for this. He brought this on by his egregious behaviors and lies.

GW

kbd512 · 2019-04-02 14:15:02

GW,

I'm looking forward to reading about what you've come up with, as it relates to the winged booster design. To me at least, that's a lot more interesting than who our President is or isn't.

Best Advice for Everyone

These partisan political shenanigans have run their course.

It's time to get over it and move forward with the rest of our lives.

Whether you love or hate President Trump, he is "The President" and he was duly elected by the American people and our Electoral College.

No American, irrespective of political party, colluded with the Russians to do anything. That's what the report said and that's something we should all be thankful for. No matter what, we all agree on who are adversaries are.

We won't always agree on politics or, heck, maybe never, but we're all still Americans.

, everyone. It's another great day for America.

SpaceNut · 2019-04-02 17:49:05

His first amendment right to say on the media broadcast for the Russians to find the 33000 emails of hillary via hacking comes very close but it did not rise to the next level with Manaford, cohen, gates, stone ect as there is no private scraps of paper, telegrams, emails, cellphone recording, video or tapes as of yet found with Trump making simular requests at this time which does not exonerate him since they worked for him. The 1 to 2 % poll difference when not all votes were counted seems more than a hack of data bases and such in many cases where evidence was found that voter registries where altered. Voters were denied to vote as well. Winner take all of a state electors where the popular vote said other wise is an another way it was tampered with. The political shenanigans are still ongoing in the house where they will not go against for fear of retribution even when they know that its right.

kbd512 · 2019-04-02 19:04:15

SpaceNut,

The Democrats lost one lousy Presidential election. It's over. Let it go. Time to move on.

GW Johnson · 2019-04-03 12:14:20

Kbd512:

It's up there. Go to http://exrocketman.blogspot.com, and for right now, it's top of page. It's dated 3 April 2019, and titled "Pivot-Wing Spaceplane Concept Feasibility".

GW

kbd512 · 2019-04-03 13:47:28

GW,

Many thanks, I'll read through it.

SpaceNut · 2019-04-03 16:29:26

Its not about an election lose its about the corruption to change the results, to make my vote not count and many other such activities that are in plain view and being ignored.

Terraformer · 2019-04-04 07:03:15

Is there any evidence the Russians actually hacked the election? I mean the actual election, not the run up to it.

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