A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion

clark · 2004-03-12 12:18:40

[http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=12171]Amendment passed providing full funding for NASA's FY2005 space exploration initiatives to Senate Budget Resolution S.Con.Res. 95.

The Senate has just passed NASA's FY2005 budget, with an additional increase of 600,000,000 for "General Science, Space, and Technology for the purpose of providing full funding for NASA's FY2005 space exploration initiatives ..."

Title: An original concurrent resolution setting forth the congressional budget for the United States Government for fiscal year 2005 and including the appropriate budgetary levels for fiscal years 2006 through 2009.
Sponsor: Sen Nickles, Don [OK] (introduced 3/5/2004) Cosponsors: (none)
Latest Major Action: 3/12/2004 Passed/agreed to in Senate. Status: Resolution agreed to in Senate with amendments by Yea-Nay Vote. 51 - 45. Record Vote Number: 58.

Now it just needs to pass the House...

Then NASA willbe funded to go to the Moon and Mars.

clark · 2004-03-12 17:00:53

To find out how your senator voted for funding NASA to go to the Moon and then Mars, follow this link:

[http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/r … vote=00058]U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 108th Congress - 2nd Session

I know two California Senators that will not be receiving my vote in the future, and they can look forward to a strongly worded letter telling them to get their heads out of their ass. :rant:

Looks like it was largely voted along party lines.

dickbill · 2004-03-12 17:35:04

Don't compare JFK with Dubya. When JFK made his announcement of a man on the moon BEFORE the next decade, remember we were in the sixties, probably everybody thought he was bluffing, including the russians, because that was a serious bet. The risks were enormous compared with today. This is what I call a serious challenge. Who would bet on that in 1963 ? I wouldn't believe it myself.
Now, Dubya annoucing the Moon by 2010 wow wow, big deal, everybody's impress.

As I said before in one of my favorite jokes, it's probably harder for an american to land in a muslim country WITHOUT a gun and come back alive, than to go to the moon. Here was the real challenge for Dubya, make the world more secure. Leave the Grand announcments to people of the class of J. F. Kennedy.
Beside that, I made a couple of jokes with Clark about a "JFK-like" anouncement to land a man on the moon by the end of 2010, because I found the idea ridiculous and I was sure that actually, he would announce Mars, not the Moon !

As said somebody before : " Le ridicule ne tue plus"

clark · 2004-03-12 17:39:07

Who would bet that America would support nuclear propulsion and make a declaration of sending people to Mars?

Oh wait, that was me.

It's not the people, it's the times. :;):

Cobra Commander · 2004-03-12 18:25:11

I know two California Senators that will not be receiving my vote in the future, and they can look forward to a strongly worded letter telling them to get their heads out of their ass.

Yes, your Senators do have their heads lodged firmly up their rectums and have for some time. As do mine. Jackasses.

Well, that's their logo, anyway

dickbill · 2004-03-12 18:48:08

Who would bet that America would support nuclear propulsion and make a declaration of sending people to Mars?
Oh wait, that was me.
It's not the people, it's the times. :;):

Absolutly It's the time. Nuclear propulsion was tried in the 60/70 ies with the NERVA prototype, so it's not really new. Mars is just the nearest possible place to go AFTER the moon, so it's not a new concept either. Von Braun had a project for Mars already.
Something equivalent to the JFK challenge would be a permanent base on Mars before 2010. You know my point of view Clark. I think that re-doing the moon first and postponing Mars might be safe at short sight, but not so much if you consider the considerable challenges of the future, on earth this time : global warming, ecological collapses, demographic problems, wars, diseases etc. Anything that could postpone Mars ... definitively.

Bill White · 2004-03-12 21:44:39

To find out how your senator voted for funding NASA to go to the Moon and then Mars, follow this link:
[http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/r … vote=00058]U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 108th Congress - 2nd Session
I know two California Senators that will not be receiving my vote in the future, and they can look forward to a strongly worded letter telling them to get their heads out of their ass. :rant:
Looks like it was largely voted along party lines.

Tsk! Tsk!

That vote was for the full budget. The NASA portion was but a teeney tiny fraction. Many Democrats voted for the NASA amendments but against the entire budget.

Like I said before, had Hitler won WW2, von Braun would have had his Martian colonies by now. But it wouldnt have been worth it.

dickbill · 2004-03-12 23:40:48

Everybody assume that the interest for mars will increase in the future.

Here is a catastroph scenario (for human on Mars) that few people mention : the aging in the population and disinterest in a Mars settlement. What if the occidental countries cannot overcome their aging trend so that the population actually declines and elders become the majority. Yes, the US or europe could colonize Mars in 60 years, BUT, will there be somebody to care about Mars in 60 years ?

As far as I know, America, south and north, was first settled by young and middle aged people right ? how many over 60 were in the Mayflower or in the first french canadian settlements in the north ?

Some of the reasons why I urge to go to Mars NOW, while we can and WANT. Look, the European are old and wise, they don't want to go to Mars, not before the americans show that they can go safely. I hope the american won't become old and wise.

Shaun Barrett · 2004-03-13 02:30:51

I don't know how old you are, Dickbill (never bothered to look it up), but those are wise words.
:up:

Rxke · 2004-03-13 04:57:42

how many over 60 were in the Mayflower or in the first french canadian settlements in the north ?
Some of the reasons why I urge to go to Mars NOW, while we can and WANT. Look, the European are old and wise, they don't want to go to Mars, not before the americans show that they can go safely. I hope the american won't become old and wise.

In the Mayflower era, being over 60 was not being old, it was being ANCIENT... Human lifespan has increased seriously since then... So the analogy is not really a good one.

And who says Europe doesn't want to go to Mars? They have actually a program with a timeline. (Aurora, i think it's called) Although a slow and not settled in stone scenario, ESA *has* one, nowhere did i see any remotely *official* timeline for Mars on NASA's site, yet...

EDIT: [http://www.esa.int/export/SPECIALS/Auro … ZAD_0.html]Aurora is a bit more than only Mars, in fact it looks like it's more the *total* ESA program with a fancy name...

dickbill · 2004-03-13 07:22:45

And who says Europe doesn't want to go to Mars? They have actually a program with a timeline. (Aurora, i think it's called) Although a slow and not settled in stone scenario, ESA *has* one, nowhere did i see any remotely *official* timeline for Mars on NASA's site, yet...

I know Eurora, it's a little bit the equivalent of the Bush space program. Something safe, advancing step by step, with human on Mars somewhere in the future. It's good, rational and sound. Might never be done.
Our human Settlement on Mars is a little bit of a crazy idea. It's a dream, not a scientific experiment.
Eurora or Bush space initiative have nothing to compare with the Zubrin prophetic visions : an urge to go, now or in the next 15 years.

Cobra Commander · 2004-03-13 09:00:11

While it is not politically correct to speak of such things, the "Manifest Destiny" approach worked, and it can again. trying to justify a bold and visionary action with practical arguments is practically doomed. many of the people who want to go to Mars, despite the front that may be presented, don't want to go to find water or discover some microbe hiding in a rock. they want to go to a new world, explore it, tame it, settle it, build a new and hopefully better life. These are the emotions that must be tapped if widespread public support is to be forthcoming. Reason is only half the equation, and the less influential half.

Mars because it is there, Mars because it is ours, Mars because we can.

clark · 2004-03-13 13:46:08

Mars because it is there, Mars because it is ours, Mars because we can.

Carpre Mars

clark · 2004-05-25 13:54:20

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=200 … r]Analysis: Summer showdown for space plan

So, when Congress gets around to authorizing the Vision for Space Exploration as outlined by Bush, I will need Adrian to decide if I win my bet with Josh.

Oh Josh...... :laugh:

Josh Cryer · 2004-05-25 17:21:50

UPI... :sleep:

clark · 2004-09-21 13:39:52

Andrews Space, Inc. Wins $6M Contract to Assist NASA in Refining its Space Exploration Vision

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.htm … ?pid=15088

Andrews Space, Inc. announced today that it has been awarded a $6 million contract from NASA to develop preliminary concepts for NASA's Crew Exploration Vehicle (CEV) and to define a vision and architecture for human missions to the Moon and exploration of Mars.
The NASA Concept Exploration and Refinement (CE&R) award builds on Andrews' track record of working with NASA to define and develop new and revolutionary space transportation concepts and capabilities. The six-month base period is valued at approximately $3 million with a six-month option for an additional $3 million.

The first element of Andrews' (CE&R) contract is to define objectives and requirements for human and robotic missions to the Moon and Mars.

So Josh, you getting ready to ante up or what?

Josh Cryer · 2004-09-21 22:14:47

Elections are coming up. :laugh:

clark · 2004-09-23 10:32:04

http://about.upi.com/products/perspecti … 5443-8222R

WASHINGTON, Sept. 23 (UPI) -- The Senate Appropriations Committee gave supporters of the Bush administration's new space exploration plan an $800 million budget boost Tuesday.
In a surprise move, committee members restored all funds trimmed earlier this month by the subcommittee responsible for funding the space program. They also exceeded, slightly, President George W. Bush's original request for the National Aeronautics and Space Administration for the new fiscal year that begins Oct. 1.
Sen. Barbara Mikulski, D-Md., offered an emergency funding amendment for NASA. Co-sponsored by Sens. Kay Bailey Hutchinson, R-Texas, and Richard Shelby, R-Ala., it added $800 million to a base NASA budget of $15.6 billion passed by the committee just minutes before.
The total approved by the Appropriations Committee raises NASA's FY 2005 budget more than $100 million above the $16.2 billion requested by the administration last February. If both houses of Congress can agree to the total, it would allow NASA Administrator Sean O'Keefe to reprogram enough funds to start the space exploration plan announced by the president last Jan. 14.

watch me win.

Josh Cryer · 2004-11-03 15:37:57

So Josh, you getting ready to ante up or what?

Soon? Much more likely than I was thinking at that point.

clark · 2004-11-03 15:56:39

Just an itty bitty "i told ya so" is warranted.

The one eyed hobo didn't lie. I wonder if his other predictions will come true.

clark · 2004-11-18 10:33:49

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/space/2906814

White House draws line on NASA's 2005 budget
Bush vows veto for plans with too much or too little

WASHINGTON - As negotiations continue on a massive budget bill for fiscal 2005, the White House sent a letter Wednesday to Capitol Hill, threatening to veto any bill that gives too little, or too much, to NASA.
Listing the space agency's budget among President Bush's top priorities, White House Budget Director Joshua Bolten told Senate and House budget writers that Bush would reject anything close to the House's version of the NASA budget.
It gave the agency $15.1 billion — $1.1 billion less than the president requested.
Bolten said that while the administration "appreciates the Senate's support and funding level" of $16.4 billion, it "also would not accept the Senate's use of $800 million in emergency funding to achieve this level."
John Scofield, spokesman for the House Appropriations Committee, said the four-page letter contained "no surprises."
He said House and Senate conferees are making progress in hammering out an omnibus bill, which is to include up to nine overdue appropriations bills.
"We're hopeful it will be on the House floor on Friday," he said.
Bush requested $16.2 billion for the space agency, which is struggling to resume shuttle flights and keep the international space station operating while pushing ahead to build new spacecraft that could travel to the moon and Mars.

Oh Josh....

clark · 2004-11-18 11:15:49

Oh when fortune smiles.

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.htm … 541]Notice of Establishment of the NASA Robotic and Human Exploration of Mars Strategic Roadmapping Committee

NASA Advisory Council; Notice of Establishment Pursuant to the Federal Advisory Committee Act, 5 U.S.C. App. Sec. Sec. 1 et seq.
AGENCY: National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA).
Explanation of Need: The Administrator of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration has determined that the establishment of a NASA Robotic and Human Exploration of Mars Strategic Roadmapping Committee is necessary and in the public interest in connection with the performance of duties imposed upon NASA by law. This determination follows consultation with the Committee Management Secretariat, General Services Administration.
Name of Committee: NASA Robotic and Human Exploration of Mars Strategic Roadmapping Committee.
Purpose and Objective: The Committee will advise NASA Administrator on Mars exploration, including robotic exploration of Mars to search for evidence of life, to understand the history of the solar system, and to prepare for future human exploration. The Committee will draw on the expertise of its members and other sources to provide its advice and recommendations to the Agency. The Committee will hold meetings and make site visits as necessary to accomplish their responsibilities. The Committee will function solely as an advisory board and will comply fully with the provisions of the Federal Advisory Committee Act.

Any thoughts or comments?

Josh Cryer · 2004-11-18 18:53:29

To get something done a committee should consist of three men, two of whom are absent. - Anon

A committee is a group of the unwilling, chosen from the unfit, to do the unnecessary. - Anon

If you want to kill any idea in the world today, get a committee working on it. - Charles F. Kettering

When it comes to facing up to serious problems, each candidate will pledge to appoint a committee. And what is a committee? ;A group of the unwilling, picked from the unfit, to do the unnecessary. But it all sounds great in a campaign speech. - Richard Long Harkness

A committee is a group that keeps minutes and loses hours. - Milton Berle

My favorite one is the second.

clark · 2004-11-20 18:50:54

i win.

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.htm … 3]Congress Fully Funds NASA - $16.2 Billion Funds Shuttle, ISS & Clears Way for Vision to Start

The mad rantings of a one-eyed lunatic... go figure.

Josh Cryer · 2004-11-20 19:15:48

You wish.

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#126 2004-03-12 12:18:40

Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion

#127 2004-03-12 17:00:53

Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion

#128 2004-03-12 17:35:04

Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion

#129 2004-03-12 17:39:07

Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion

#130 2004-03-12 18:25:11

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#131 2004-03-12 18:48:08

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#132 2004-03-12 21:44:39

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#133 2004-03-12 23:40:48

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#134 2004-03-13 02:30:51

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#135 2004-03-13 04:57:42

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#136 2004-03-13 07:22:45

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#137 2004-03-13 09:00:11

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#138 2004-03-13 13:46:08

Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion

#139 2004-05-25 13:54:20

Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion

#140 2004-05-25 17:21:50

Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion

#141 2004-09-21 13:39:52

Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion

#142 2004-09-21 22:14:47

Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion

#143 2004-09-23 10:32:04

Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion

#144 2004-11-03 15:37:57

Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion

#145 2004-11-03 15:56:39

Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion

#146 2004-11-18 10:33:49

Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion

#147 2004-11-18 11:15:49

Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion

#148 2004-11-18 18:53:29

Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion

#149 2004-11-20 18:50:54

Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion

#150 2004-11-20 19:15:48

Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion

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