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GW said it Impeachment isn't just Trump vs. Democrats. It's executive vs. Congress
Trump Team Wraps Up Impeachment Defense With Bolton Testimony in Question
Another is Trump’s impeachment defense: Who is paying the president’s lawyers?
Its bad when the GOP would rather not hear the truth from those that have worked for Trump but
GOP Doesn't Now Have Votes to Block Witnesses
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GW,
Yet you managed to find the time to regale us with a complete non-sequitur story from your personal life, complete with edits, apparently?
Don't get me wrong, I think you're a pretty interesting guy, but some of the stuff you write just looks like a refusal to acknowledge the self-destructive nature of this new wave radical far-left ideology. Basically, there was nothing germane to the subject matter in your response apart from a belief that whatever our intelligence community tells us is gospel. Fun fact, though; even if people don't lie they still make mistakes all the time. When last I checked, being a part of the intelligence community doesn't make them impervious to human failings. It turns out that I'm "quite right" about what I stated in Post #123. The "consensus" was that the WMD threat from Iraq was imminent and the CIA's own October 2002 National Intelligence Assessment (NIA) which I have very helpfully linked to below proves that beyond a shadow of a doubt.
From the October 2002 NIA posted on the CIA's website (you know, that document containing the "evidence" cited as "proof" that we needed to invade Iraq again):
Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction Programs
This literally comes from the first two pages of the report:
Key Judgments
Iraq’s Weapons of Mass Destruction Programs
Iraq has continued its weapons of mass destruction (WMD) programs in defiance of UN resolutions and restrictions. Baghdad has chemical and biological weapons as well as missiles with ranges in excess of UN restrictions; if left unchecked, it probably will have a nuclear weapon during this decade.Baghdad hides large portions of Iraq’s WMD efforts. Revelations after the Gulf war starkly demonstrate the extensive efforts undertaken by Iraq to deny information.
Since inspections ended in 1998, Iraq has maintained its chemical weapons effort, energized its missile program, and invested more heavily in biological weapons; most analysts assess Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program.
• Iraq’s growing ability to sell oil illicitly increases Baghdad’s capabilities to finance WMD programs; annual earnings in cash and goods have more than quadrupled.
• Iraq largely has rebuilt missile and biological weapons facilities damaged during Operation Desert Fox and has expanded its chemical and biological infrastructure under the cover of civilian production.
• Baghdad has exceeded UN range limits of 150 km with its ballistic missiles and is working with unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), which allow for a more lethal means to deliver biological and, less likely, chemical warfare agents.
• Although Saddam probably does not yet have nuclear weapons or sufficient material to make any, he remains intent on acquiring them.How quickly Iraq will obtain its first nuclear weapon depends on when it acquires sufficient weapons -grade fissile material.
• If Baghdad acquires sufficient weapons - grade fissile material from abroad, it could make a nuclear weapon within a year.
• Without such material from abroad, Iraq probably would not be able to make a weapon until the last half of the decade.— Iraq’s aggressive attempts to obtain proscribed high-strength aluminum tubes are of significant concern. All intelligence experts agree that Iraq is seeking nuclear weapons and that these tubes could be used in a centrifuge enrichment program. Most intelligence specialists assess this to be the intended use, but some believe that these tubes are probably intended for conventional weapons programs.
— Based on tubes of the size Iraq is trying to acquire, a few tens of thousands of centrifuges would be capable of producing enough highly enriched uranium for a couple of weapons per year.
Baghdad has begun renewed production of chemical warfare agents, probably including mustard, sarin, cyclosarin, and VX. Its capability was reduced during the UNSCOM inspections and is probably more limited now than it was at the time of the Gulf war, although VX production and agent storage life probably have been improved.
• Saddam probably has stocked a few hundred metric tons of CW agents.
• The Iraqis have experience in manufacturing CW bombs, artillery rockets, and projectiles, and probably possess CW bulk fills for SRBM warheads, including for a limited number of covertly stored, extended-range Scuds.All key aspects—R&D, production, and weaponization—of Iraq’s offensive BW program are active and most elements are larger and more advanced than they were before the Gulf wa r.
• Iraq has some lethal and incapacitating BW agents and is capable of quickly producing and weaponizing a variety of such agents, including anthrax, for delivery by bombs, missiles, aerial sprayers, and covert operatives, including potentially against the US Homeland.
• Baghdad has established a large-scale, redundant, and concealed BW agent production capability, which includes mobile facilities; these facilities can evade detection, are highly survivable, and can exceed the production rates Iraq had prior to the Gulf war.
Iraq maintains a small missile force and several development programs, including for a UAV that most analysts believe probably is intended to deliver biological warfare agents.
• Gaps in Iraqi accounting to UNSCOM suggest that Saddam retains a covert force of up to a few dozen Scud-variant SRBMs with ranges of 650 to 900 km.
• Iraq is deploying its new al-Samoud and Ababil-100 SRBMs, which are capable of flying beyond the UN-authorized 150-km range limit.
• Baghdad’s UAVs—especially if used for delivery of chemical and biological warfare (CBW) agents—could threaten Iraq’s neighbors, US forces in the Persian Gulf, and the United States if brought close to, or into, the US Homeland.
• Iraq is developing medium-range ballistic missile capabilities, largely through foreign assistance in building specialized facilities.
Emphasis on the point about Iraqi weapons delivery capability assessed as capable of being used against the US homeland added by me. I'm sure it didn't go unnoticed by former President Bush after we were just attacked a year earlier. I don't know how in the world former President Bush could've possibly misinterpreted the "key judgements" of that report. He basically ignored the previous report on the al-Qaeda threat assessment and swiftly witnessed first-hand or nearly first-hand what followed. It's only scrawled out in big bold letters on the first two pages of the report- and it goes on and on and on.
Most people, but especially liberals and creative types, have this thought process quirk wherein they interpret something someone else said or wrote and then everything they believe about that person or what that person represents to them, in their own mind, gets blended together with whatever was objectively expressed and thereafter they lose all ability to differentiate between the objective expression and their own beliefs about it. That's why you wrote an interesting, but also entirely irrelevant to the subject matter at hand, story about your life instead of a substantive rebuttal to what I plainly stated or inquired about. You immediately blended together your own beliefs about me with what was stated. I don't mix intelligence assessments with personal political ideology, but it's increasingly clear to me that you do. There is no deception as powerful and complete as self-deception.
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The impeachment non trial is coming to a close as a result of the recent near split vote to not hear from witnesses and from other found material evidence of the corruption in the white house.
Senate ushers final phase of Trump impeachment trial without witnesses
A majority of the U.S. Senate has determined that the numerous witnesses and 28,000-plus pages of documents already in evidence are sufficient to judge the House Managers' accusations and end this impeachment trial is a vote with party and not on the evidence at all.
No witnesses, no documents in an impeachment trial is a perfidy as you can get to not being on trail at all. If this is a trail then what would be the appeals process?
It looks to me that rather electing party individuals for each state representatives we need to elect independants to hold those posts.
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Kbd512:
You missed one of my main points: just how far wrong a single intelligence agency can be, in assessing something. The example I gave was CIA vs SA-6. To this very day I still marvel at how anybody could mistake 4 spike-equipped supersonic inlets for "exaggerated fairings". But the CIA did, in 1967.
I went a bit overboard perhaps, describing what I personally did in evaluating the SA-6 in 1978-79. That was a big part of my life way back then, but only one of very many important things that I worked on. Perhaps I can be forgiven for writing too much about that.
However, what I should have pointed out was that anybody capable of recognizing a supersonic air inlet would have concluded SA-6 was some kind of airbreather, likely a ramjet, from only the May Day parade photos. Such were well known: both ramjet Talos and ramjet Bomarc were then flying as SAM's in the US inventory, and the SA-4 Ganef ramjet SAM was flying for the Russians.
Another main point I tried to make was the consensus effect, that being a consensus among multiple different agencies, headed and managed in different ways. That tends to mitigate the effects of this or that particular agency getting something wrong (which includes politically-motivated biases as well as technical errors). Not perfect, but it does help. A lot.
Another point I didn't make, but in hindsight I see that I should have addressed, is that there is an enormous difference between the existence of a chemical / biological / nuclear research and development project, and the possession of an actual fieldable capability, in any of those areas. The timeline from one to the other is typically several to many years, if indeed success is ever obtained at all. Often it is not.
The 2002 CIA NIE that you cite was only 2 years later determined to be in very serious error by the US Senate. Unfortunately, we were already needlessly embroiled in Iraq because of it. Here is what the Wikipedia article on George Tenet (then CIA director) has to say about this problem:
quote:
Congress voted to support the Iraq war based on the NIE Tenet provided in October 2002. However, the bipartisan "Senate Intelligence Committee Report on Prewar Intelligence" released on July 7, 2004, concluded that the key findings in the 2002 NIE either overstated, or were not supported by, the actual intelligence. The Senate report also found the US Intelligence Community to suffer from a "broken corporate culture and poor management" that resulted in a NIE which was completely wrong in almost every respect.[53]
end quote.
The overstated intelligence assessments parlayed ongoing Iraqi research and development efforts (conducted in violation of UN resolutions against such work), into the false claims of real weapons capability. This sort of thing is far less likely with a consensus approach to intelligence estimates, that consensus being among multiple agencies.
Note the one-year-ish timeline in the NIE for going to real weapons capability from an R&D effort, for any of these weapons types. That contrasts greatly with typical reality. Note that, even for the gigantic Manhattan Project effort, the US required 3 years to get from R&D feasibility to a crude but deployable weapon. It's usually a decade or more. Sometimes multiple decades.
There are many undercurrents in this, but one is the political "sale" of war in Iraq to the American public by the neocon advisers to Bush 43. In the Wikipedia article, the preceding paragraph to the quote above speaks directly to this:
quote:
Tenet refused to do a report on the military or occupation phase, but reluctantly agreed to do a NIE on the weapons of mass destruction. Graham described the Senate Intelligence Committee meeting with Tenet as "the turning point in our attitude towards Tenet and our understanding of how the intelligence community has become so submissive to the desires of the administration. The administration wasn't using intelligence to inform their judgment; they were using intelligence as part of a public relations campaign to justify their judgment."[52]
end quote.
In that quote, "Graham" is then-Senator Bob Graham. "The administration" refers not just to the President, but to him, his cabinet, his VP, and his other advisers collectively. All save one (Powell) were known to be "neocons". Neocons were well-known to be advocates of never-ending war-for-profit over oil in the mideast.
To reach its conclusions, the Senate had to consult the other intelligence agencies and other sources as well. That's the consensus effect that should have been applied before authorizing the invasion, but was not.
R&D into something is just not equal to weapon capability in that thing. Period. It may (or may not ever) lead to one. Big difference. None of our enemies are (or were ever) 12 feet tall. By and large, they were and are the same 5'-6"-or-so that we are, technologically speaking. In hindsight, when you see too-fast a claim of fielding something from R&D, that's clearly a "red flag" about how wrong the intelligence estimate might be.
There are a bunch of US intelligence agencies. Off the top of my head, there are the CIA and NSA, plus the FBI and the DIA, and separate military intelligence operations in each of the USAF, the Army, and USN. There's more, besides.
The lesson here is not to trust an NIE from one and only one agency! There needs to be a consensus among multiple agencies before intelligence estimates are accepted as true. I'm not confident the US government has yet learned that lesson.
Since the 9-11 debacle, the intelligence agencies do talk to each other better. And that is an improvement. But only talking is not enough.
Spacenut:
Given what Kbd512 and I have been discussing, plus that vote to delete witnesses at a trial, why would anyone expect anything out of the Senate except self-serving political gain?
GW
GW Johnson
McGregor, Texas
"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew, especially one dead from a bad management decision"
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Spacenut:
Given what Kbd512 and I have been discussing, plus that vote to delete witnesses at a trial, why would anyone expect anything out of the Senate except self-serving political gain?
GW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------GW Johnson
McGregor, Texas
One channel, one mindless end as expected by just the simple wiki of Trumps crimes, until we can vote them all out....
One voted with his conscience The Conservative Political Action Committee (CPAC) officially snubbed Utah Sen. Mitt Romney
Maybe he should run for president...
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A total of new redacted Trump emails are in the hands of the DOJ which prove that he broke the law....
DOJ says withheld emails reveal Trump’s thinking on Ukraine aid freeze. New documents show President Donald Trump asked about U.S. military aid to Ukraine a month before the call with Ukrainian. Wildly Incriminating Emails Show the White House Knew Trump Was Extorting Ukraine Staff, including Mick Mulvaney, scrambled to justify the hold on nearly $400 million in aid..
Then again there is more to the Russia: US peace plan contravenes UN resolutions The reaction of the Palestinians and a number of Arab states to the Trump peace proposal “raises doubts over its viability,” says Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov. U.S. President Donald J. Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin, July 16, 2018.
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The zealot members Senator Rand Paul reads alleged whistleblower's name on Senate floor. Paul used the final deliberations of the impeachment trial to name the person the purported intelligence whistleblower Thursday after Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts refused to read his question including the name in the Senate impeachment trial... whistleblower is a person who exposes any kind of information or activity that is deemed illegal, unethical, or not correct within an organization that is either private or public. The Whistleblower Protection Act was made into federal law in the United States in 1989. As such he should be charged with the crime and brought to justice....
We know that party first followers will like McConnell whom has blasted the impeachment, will vote to acquit Trump. With Roberts holding the tie breaker which has said he will not do so its a hung jury and a new trial can be had..A normal jury must be unanomous but for congress is just a simple majority, which does make it not even a jury trail....
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Did they not call the 'whisteblower' to witness? It's not really a trial if you don't have the star witness there for cross examination, is it.
Use what is abundant and build to last
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That's the Whistleblower who worked closely with and for John Brennan - the main conspirator against Trump? I think there you have the reason why they never called him.
Did they not call the 'whisteblower' to witness? It's not really a trial if you don't have the star witness there for cross examination, is it.
Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com
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3 winners and 3 losers from the impeachment and acquittal of Donald Trump
Their reasoning is easy enough to understand — they were committed to voting to acquit Trump, so a full and extended airing of the facts could only set them up for embarrassment. This was all fairly predictable to any observer of American politics, but we didn’t know for sure until we saw it happen. The concern that impeachment would only lead to acquittal and further erosion of the rule of law was aired in Democratic circles before the House acted, and the doubters turn out to have been entirely correct on this score. Still, it’s hard to see any other possible tactical course of action by Democrats generating a better result. The essence of the problem is that almost every Republican has decided to stand by Trump no matter what.
Not Guilty: Split Senate acquits Trump of impeachment 52-48 favoring acquittal of abuse of power, 53-47 of obstruction of Congress' investigation — fell far short.
Two-thirds “guilty” votes would have been needed to reach the Constitution's bar of high crimes and misdemeanors to convict and remove Trump from office. McConnell, who commands a 53-47 Republican majority, braced for dissent, refusing efforts to prolong the trial with more witnesses, arguing the House should have done a better job.
Hundreds of anti-Trump protests planned nationwide after impeachment acquittal to make it clear that voters are watching, and that we'll remember the lawmakers who chose cowardice over patriotism.
More than 200 "Reject the Cover-Up" protests are planned around the nation Wednesday in response to President Donald Trump's impeachment acquittal.
https://rejectthecoverup.org/
Most were expected to begin at 5:30 p.m. EST in opposition to the Senate trial. They encompass 45 states and the District of Columbia.
“Corrupting an election to keep oneself in office is perhaps the most abusive and destructive violation of one’s oath of office that I can imagine,” "The omission of witnesses and evidence in Trump's removal trial will be met with resistance by every individual who believes in government for the people and by the people,"
Now its ok to go an testify after all of the heal dragging Bolton was blocked by the White House from testifying last year during the House's impeachment inquiry and threatened to sue if he was issued a subpoena. Impeachment investigators declined to do so, citing the lengthy court battle that would ensue. Bolton Will Likely Be Subpoenaed by House to Testify, Jerry Nadler Says since he had lost his bid to not be forced to do so.
I guess what is good for the goose is good for the gander as its possible that What Comes Next After Impeachment And Acquittal? Re-Impeachment
Sure with new evidence that even attaches to the same event would it really change the senates GOP sticking to party first and nothing else even if it shows the crime was committed. Since the GOP by and large, lawmakers voted with their political futures in mind, rather than the facts. By the end of the trial, some Republican senators were forced to acknowledge that Trump did do the things the House accused him of. BUt even with factual witnesses they still would not have impeached him for his crime.
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Trump’s litany of "accomplishments" have always been a misrepresentation of the truth. He fooled half of America because it sounded great and everyone was high on partisan patriotism more like nationalism.
With the impeachment of President Donald Trump officially concluded, it is time to acknowledge that the Constitution has undergone a stress test and it failed. The underlying cause — lack of moral character among those in Congress who violated their oath to “support and defend the Constitution.”
James Madison, considered the principal architect of the Constitution, understood the potential threat that character imperfections posed to a budding constitutional democracy. To guard against these shortcomings, the framers created a system of institutional checks and balances, which has held since ratification.
Despite the need for safeguards, Madison remained optimistic. He presumed that “virtue in the people” would offset these human frailties and allow for effective self-governance. Over two centuries later, the 116th Congress, driven by personal interest, has proven him wrong.
I wish to express my condolences on the death of co-equality between the executive and legislative branches of the United States government. Co-equality died at the hands of the Republican Senate majority. I will sadly miss congressional oversight providing transparency for presidential decisions and actions and constraints on the president’s ability to place personal interests above the national interest.
That we have a king that is above the law....and not a president that represents America and its people...
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SpaceNut,
President Trump is bombastic and over-the-top, personality-wise, completely narcissistic as all people who think they could possibly govern a country of a half billion people or more always are- no matter their political party affiliation, yet the underlying truth of what he states is self-evident and those with ideologies that insist that only their ideas could ever possibly be "right" or "correct" know it. That's why he so confounds his detractors- he exposes the simple truth of their own beliefs about themselves and others.
It's refreshing to read such an ardent appeal to defending our Constitution from one of my Democrat colleagues. I'd like to refer back to this moment the next time I read suggestions that we repeal the parts of our Constitution you don't like. It's also amazing that you never even suggested that self-interest might apply equally to both major political parties (or simply all politicians everywhere at all times).
Much like 2016, the Democrats won't collectively decide to select a viable candidate for 2020. They can't even stop fighting amongst themselves long enough to get votes properly counted for their own primary. They've already started accusing each other of nefarious plots to prevent someone's favored candidate from winning the election. In short, they're still choosing to act like a bunch of squabbling children who have no business running our country. Even if I disagreed with some of his policies, at least former President Obama acted the part.
The bottom line on this impeachment sham is that Democrats insisted that there was nothing to see when former Vice President Biden publicly claimed he did exactly what Democrats accused President Trump of doing. So guess what? The law shouldn't care whether or not you have a "D" or a "R" next to your name. If it's acceptable for former President Obama or former Vice President Biden to do it, then it's equally acceptable for President Trump to do it. If you can't or won't agree to that standard, then we "my rules for me and my rules for you", which doesn't work for governing millions of people if 50% of them think that way.
I wish to express my condolences over your ideologically-motivated belief that the purpose of our Legislature is to reverse the results of an election that certain members of a political party didn't like because their side lost that particular election. Former President Obama, who was no fan of President Trump and a member of the opposing major political party, plainly stated on national television that the results of the 2016 Presidential election were free and fair and represented the will of the American people. If Democrats and Republicans can't both agree to accept the results of our elections processes, then very quickly we will no longer be America.
President Trump is not a king and never will be. He may not represent your specific interests in the way that you want them to be represented, but that's also not what he was elected to do. Former President Obama certainly didn't represent my interests, though I never expected him to. All I want from our President, whomever is elected, is someone who can get the economy moving at a better pace, not tax us to death or otherwise take more of what little we have than is absolutely necessary to run our government, and not involve us in more pointless wars. President Trump is this strange once-in-a-lifetime force of nature who has thus far managed to do just that. The one thing collectivists never seem to manage to do is display any gratitude, possibly because they constantly feel entitled to this / that / the other.
If you truly dislike President Trump that much, then go out and vote for someone else who you think can win the 2020 Presidential election. If the Democrats win, you won't see me waste 4 years of my life obsessing over their choice and posting mindless media drivel here because I dislike who was elected President.
What's so special about President Trump that you and your fellow Democrats manage to find the time and energy to fixate on everything he says and does 24/7/365? Is there nothing else more important going on in your lives?
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In my opinion Trump was not elected as president out of any illusion on behalf of voters that he was a perfect candidate. He is too old and too poorly educated to be the sort of statesman that the US needs in a time of civilizational crisis.
What Trump had going for him was the simple fact that he wasn't Hillary Clinton. He didn't have to be perfect when the alternative was a dirty and corrupt internationalist, with pockets deep with extorted money from the Russians, Israelis, Saudis and anyone else that wanted to buy her patronage. Likewise, the Republicans don't have to be perfect, when the alternative is the anti-white, anti-male, civilisation wrecking, Zionist dominated madhouse that the Democratic party has evolved into.
https://www.theburningplatform.com/2020 … te-people/
Why would any American that cared about the future want those perverts in power? When faced with a choice like that, the majority of Americans (and an even greater proportion of white Americans) voted to keep the civilisation wreckers out of power. The same Hobson's Choice is presented to British voters every election. Do I vote for evil? Or do I vote for something bad, but not quite so bad?
Last edited by Calliban (2020-02-06 07:40:17)
"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."
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During the impeachment trial, Trump's legal team argued for an unconstrained presidency. They also said that the charges brought by the House - abuse of power and contempt of Congress - did not cover conduct that amounted to impeachable offenses.
They argued that if a president trying to win re-election believes he is acting in the national interest, any quid pro quo - a Latin term meaning a favor for a favor - arrangement aimed at boosting his election chances cannot be impeachable. They also argued that an impeachable offense must be a violation of a statutory law.
The issue with the election is that when the GOP found out they wanted a hands off to effecting the elections outcome as they would claim foul as a democrat had changed its results. Of course now they are doing the blame game for not doing enough.
The part of the vote is whether or not you know anything of the bad or evil as to how you might have changed your vote. I find this was as well part of that vote as only thing in the news was all about Hillaries emails...gee a decade is not enough to keep finding out poor judgement was made. Civilians should not ever be put into a role that they are unqualified to execute.
Opinions | Marie Yovanovitch: These are turbulent times. But we will persist and prevail.
When civil servants in the current administration saw senior officials taking actions they considered deeply wrong in regard to the nation of Ukraine, they refused to take part. When Congress asked us to testify about those activities, my colleagues and I did not hesitate, even in the face of administration efforts to silence us. We did this because it is the American way to speak up about wrongdoing. It has been shocking to experience the storm of criticism, lies and malicious conspiracies that have preceded and followed my public testimony, but I have no regrets. I did — we did — what our conscience called us to do. We did what the gift of U.S. citizenship requires us to do.
Mitt Romney just showed Trump how a president should act
What is next for the man that thinks he is above the law is the Courts are the next front in Trump's battle over presidential powers
Three cases will be argued before the Supreme Court on March 31 focusing on Trump's contention that a House of Representatives committee and a New York City prosecutor are powerless to enforce subpoenas to obtain his financial records. Lawyers for Trump argued that the Constitution renders sitting presidents immune from all criminal investigations and that even if he shot someone on New York's Fifth Avenue prosecutors would be powerless to act while he was still in office.
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Trump warns on impeachment payback: 'You'll see'
Trump does not understand what the law reads as he has acted against all that testified under the whistle blowers act.
These are grounds for removal from office....as its to tell the truth not lie as he has done to all....
Trump’s quest for revenge could mean the end of whistleblowing
Trump Fires Gordon Sondland Hours After Dismissing Impeachment Witness Alexander Vindman
Gordon Sondland says he’s been dismissed by Trump as ambassador to EU
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Purges Show Trump Learned Nothing From Impeachment Though many Republicans said that the president might now behave more cautiously, the reality is that he just feels empowered to abuse his office again.
There are also word of investigations into votes granted in favor based om a promise that Trump would not do it again from GOP members.
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The purges show that President Trump learned that leaving former President Obama's criminal lackeys in place was an egregiously bad idea. President Trump was not allowed to replace those criminals from the Obama administration with his own personnel selections because Congress still refuses to approve appointments to hundreds of positions. There really ought to be some kind of retribution for the Democrats wasting so much of the peoples' time trying to overturn the results of an election that former President Obama said was free and fair and represented the will of the American people. The Democrats need to learn to accept the results of elections or they'll be removed from their positions of power for a truly excellent cause.
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Trump has been meddeling of court decisions to caused the trials sentencing decision leaving of procescutors of the Roger Stone trail sentencing from the Mueller probe to resign in mass numbers.
Just because he's a long time freind he should pardon him for the crimes that were committed.
Trump usual over stepping is abuse of power in an equal branch government...
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This is just what you would expect a person that has done wrong to do so as to keep other whistle blowers from coming forward with what had been done that was not legal to do....
Trump says he may stop allowing aides to listen to foreign leader calls following infamous Ukraine call
You do the listening to potect our nation from the he said she said in the first place from the nation that you are speeaking with.
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SpaceNut,
The only "he said, she said" is coming from the evil clowns that our President was forced to contend with because he was not permitted to replace former President Obama's hand-picked politicriminals. President Trump tried mightily to work with most of the personnel who were already in place when he took office and quickly found out that they were more interested in the regressive Democrat agenda than they were in implementing the agenda he set forth, which was why he was elected President in the first place.
It's quite humorous that the stupidity that started this impeachment nonsense was repudiated by every "witness" (not a single one claimed that an impeachable offense was committed by President Trump when directly questioned), the transcript from the phone call, and the leader of the foreign country he was supposedly asking political favors of.
The only thing President Trump is guilty of is naively expecting that even politicians with a "D" next to their name would act like civilized human beings at some point in their miserable lives. Since President Trump was a Democrat his entire life until 4 years ago, I guess he thought they'd recognize the insanity of their own dogma when it was replayed back to them. It's kinda weird that being called out on their nonsense is what drove them nuts because I thought they were proud of it.
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Trump lied about everything from the Ukraine and admitted it Trump tells Geraldo he sent Giuliani to Ukraine, 'not' sorry for it after months of saying he did not send Giuliani... Trump Basically Confessed to the Ukraine Charges
Of course the striking out at all that testified Even now, Trump can't stop going after Lt. Col. Vindman
"The continued public attacks by the President of the United States on an active-duty officer in the military are designed to intimidate and to punish. Just as the direction the President provided to the Department of Defense earlier this week is both unmistakable and chilling, by using the power of his office to repeatedly humiliate and punish those following the law, the President is encouraging breaking the law."
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From one president to another president lier, lier pants on fire... Zelensky responds to Trump's claims: 'It's not true that Ukraine is a corrupt country'
Zelensky Ukraine corrupt: Stop Saying My Country Is Corrupt. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky rejected President Trump’s claim that Ukraine is a corrupt country.
Quiet updating
The right to tell when things are wrong is the very thing that is if you see something you need to say something in this new world since 911 and to not go after those that are attacking those that do blow that whistle is a crime that should not be allowed. 'All traitors must die': Feds charge man for threatening whistleblower attorney
I guess a pardon is in order from Trump in his eyes...
Not all whistle blowers run the risk as others have when telling the truth that events occur but dieing seems to be an eventual outcome for some as they are bullied, threatened and forced out of working... Obama-era Department of Homeland Security (DHS) whistleblower Philip Haney was found dead in Amador County, Calif., on Friday, according to local authorities.
A court has finally stood up to a Pardon as it does not void a guilty verdict.
Court won't let Trump pardon void guilty verdict against Sheriff Joe Arpaio
3-5-20
Romney voted his mind but when it comes to the conspiracy that Trump claims Biden did something wrong that he has not done already while he is in office is just the kettle whistling...Romney may vote against Trump again — this time with some bite
Trying to find manufactured evidence of a crime that never happened...
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Good question repost:
The only things I would add to what I said in post 1582 just above are these two items:
1. The earlier you get started quarantining, the lower the total infections, and the lower the total deaths. We and South Korea had our very first confirmed cases on the same day, Jan 20. We both had warning it was coming no later than just after Christmas '19.
S. Korea had the supplies ready and the quarantining in place, early. They are passing or past the peak now. We screwed around for nearly 2 months denying there was a threat, and we are exponentially exploding toward 100,000+ deaths and a collapsed hospital system.
My own opinion is that the delay based on denials is prima facie evidence of valuing money (or political gain) above lives.
2. Once you embark on quarantining, you must not stop too soon, lest the outbreak resurge. Centuries of experience tell us that. It is the outbreak statistics that tell you when you can end the quarantine, not any other consideration, unless you value money or politics over lives.
That arbitrary nonsense about ending quarantines by Easter has fortunately been walked back. But it speaks eloquently about the relative priorities of a particular politician, as regards money and political advantage versus lives. Not that he is alone, but he leads the charge. And his true-believer supporters will do absolutely anything he asks, no matter how heinous. We have already seen that.
My questions:
1. How is killing people with bad decisions based on evil priorities not one or another degree of murder, or at least manslaughter?
2. Is not murder/manslaughter a high crime in our society?
3. Are not "high crimes" impeachable per the exact phrasing in the constitution?
4. Does that not apply to multiple political figures at multiple levels in this country?
GW
I seem to recall that HOAX being said multiple times in the past and getting out of it by the senate majority isnt it time that he should just resign?
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SpaceNut,
Spain has more than twice as many deaths as the US and half the number of confirmed infections. Italy is even worse. The socialist-friendly EU can't take care of their own people? Should they put all of their socialist leaders in jail? Comrade Beria over here thinks we should, though some of us are quite pleased that he isn't in charge of anything. Should we start charging doctors with crimes if they incorrectly diagnose someone, too? Good grief.
South Korea is using the drugs that our media and some within our scientific community have claimed do little or nothing to ameliorate the worst of the effects of COVID-19, quite possibly because President Trump said we should use them and that they work. They clearly do work in countries where half the population doesn't feel the need to oppose any good idea merely on the basis of who stated we should try it. Since it was never President Trump's idea to use the drugs that happen to work, I'm not sure why they're opposing it. We did, in point of fact, quarantine everyone we knew or suspected had COVID-19 infections.
The Democrats held up the bill to get paychecks to now unemployed American workers in order to try to sneak in more of their nutty agenda, such as new emissions standards for airliners. Yes, I'm quite sure airline emissions were of the utmost importance when millions of people are unemployed and the airlines are now bankrupt. There's no mention of that from GW because he's a political partisan hack, just like you and I are. He still can't bring himself to admit that he is because then his moral superiority schtick would ring pretty hollow at that point.
Yes, we must not stop quarantining after we start because I'm quite certain that if we succeed in destroying the entire American economy that that won't result in any deaths, either. That's not heinous at all, is it? Weren't you the one complaining about poor people starving to death? Furthermore, why make any attempt to give people hope when you can give them doom and gloom into perpetuity?
1. GW may think making money is an "evil priority", but some of us like feeding our children and keeping a roof over our heads and we use that icky money thingy to do it. Yes, we're all evil for thinking our economy is a top priority- and far more of a priority than religious political ideology dogma from regressive leftists who are constantly seeking new ways to undermine our way of life because they're so power-mad.
2. Yes.
3. If getting your own people killed for any decision made or no decision at all is an impeachable offense, then every President in our history would need to be impeached by GW's sophomoric reasoning, without exception.
4. See the answer to Question #3. We do not need any more special laws for special people.
By GW's absurd line of reasoning, he should be in jail right now for working on the Space Shuttle due to the fact that two of them never made it back. His superior intellect should have provided him with the foresight to know years ahead of time that someone at NASA would make a bad management decision and that as a result even his engineering skills were inadequate to prevent the deaths of the Challenger and Columbia astronauts. Matter of fact, NASA should be shut down entirely because every dollar spent exploring distant space rocks is a dollar that can't be spent feeding hungry children or providing health care. Oh, wait, I think we already did that. JFK should've known what NASA would become and never made the speech that caused NASA to sacrifice 3 of our astronauts on a launch pad over velcro, which means Apollo would've never happened, nor the Space Shuttle, nor SpaceX and Starship- all due to an absolutely infantile belief system that refuses to acknowledge that mistakes happen and people die. Unless we're going to start holding everyone accountable, then we can't charge one man that GW's never met but absolutely can't stand with murder in furtherance of his self-centered and mind-blowingly hypocritical political agenda.
No, in closing I'll tell you what it's long past time for. It's time for people like you and GW and so many others out there, irrespective of political ideology, to learn that nobody gets their way 100% of the time and to simply get over yourselves and move on with the rest of life. President Trump is President because he was duly elected to office by the American people, whether you agree with their decision or not, and all the whining and complaining in the world won't change that simple fact.
Apart from being upset over who was elected 4 years ago, is there anything else that occupies your time that you find worthwhile, or is complaining about President Trump the highlight of your day? If you know so much better than everyone who elected him, then stop talking about how much better your decision making capabilities are and run for office already. While you're gone, I'll do my best to defend your decision making capabilities from the cheap seats. If someone comes on here making wild accusations about how the Iranians put you in office without any evidence, you can rest assured that I'll ask to see their evidence. If they can't produce any, I'll call them out on it.
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Should we start charging doctors with crimes if they incorrectly diagnose someone, too?
We actually do but with lawyers and lying they get out of it with malpractice insurance pay outs most of the time.
It should not matter what size the nation is as we were not treating our seasonal flu's any different than this one and that's a mistake that needs to chain as its not just the FLU.
I still need to find and read a copy of the bill to see what else was stuffed into it. Then can comment on what should not have been in a relief bill and for bailouts for businesses.
So not quarantining for a 4-6 week period is as suggested but go to work only to have 50% of the nation die from the spread of the virus is ok...which could include family, friends, neighbors....and not being able to be with the loved one's in their final lonely hours....We should be protective of the members of community that give back to others not give them a death sentence because some arbitrary expiration date.
Yes doing an effective quarantining is changing America the Land of United States but its not killing its way of life, its economy but putting value on life and how to be better for it. More and More brick an motar building not warehousing are converting to some form of drive up or delivery for all business that have not panicked closing for good as some have done. Social distancing have not closed the others only made people more aware of what could happen if we do not use clean practices.
Money making is evil when its done inspite of peoples lives, as thats one of the reasons we have osha, epa and other agencies to stop doing so.
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