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#626 2022-11-02 06:25:09

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 12,644

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

For SpaceNut re topic

There would be NO poverty in America (or anywhere else) if the wealth of energy and material of the Universe were harnessed in sufficient quantity so that everyone could be served.

Over in the Abundance topic, Calliban is showing how that might be done.

In an ideal Universe, humans would be able to organize themselves so that everyone's needs can be met, while at the same time the desires of those who have desires could be pursued.

The American system provides for the pursuit of happiness.  it most definitely does NOT guarantee happiness.

Happiness requires work.

I'd like to separate meeting the needs of the population from the worthy goal of seeking happiness.

We have a few folks who consider it their business to require others to do things according to their idea of what is good and proper.

We'll probably always have folks like that.  It appears to be a part of the human condition.

However, meeting the needs of the population is a separate problem, which (I have faith) is addressable.

Calliban seems to be looking (admittedly with a skeptical eye) at one possible way to accomplish that.

(th)

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#627 2022-11-17 23:52:28

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 27,140

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

Trying to change the equation of income is part of the answer if the other part which is expense also do not increase to a figure more than income.

A Washington company is creating $5,500 prefab tiny homes that can be setup in under one hour to help solve the homelessness crisis — take a look

600856cbe3d62500185fd59a?width=1000&format=jpeg&auto=webp

https://palletshelter.com/

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#628 2022-12-04 14:22:35

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 27,140

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

Why should a state, city or town have so much power as to housing?
A woman had to move out of her tiny home after 1 day because the city threatened to fine her $1,000 a day

A woman is suing the city of Meridian, Idaho, over its ban on living in mobile homes that threatened to fine her $1,000 a day if she continued living in it, because the action left her unhoused. Chasidy Decker of Meridian, Idaho, couldn't afford to buy a house, so she opted for the 252-square-foot tiny home and arranged to put it on Robert Calacal's property for $600 a month, according to the lawsuit.

A neighbor called the Meridian Police Department when the tiny home arrived on the property and asked whether living in it would be legal.

Decker and Calacal filed a lawsuit to challenge the city's ban, bringing five claims as to why the restriction on tiny homes breached the Idaho constitution.

Robert Belden, a lawyer with the Institute for Justice, told Insider: "Everyone needs a place to live, but the city would rather have Chasidy be homeless than living in a tiny home on wheels parked on private property. That's not just wrong, it's unconstitutional. Making Chasidy homeless does nothing to improve public health, safety, or welfare in Meridian, and it certainly doesn't improve Chasidy's."

"At a time when so few affordable housing options are available, why is the city's zoning ordinance further reducing such options?" Belden said.

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#629 2022-12-04 14:28:03

Void
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Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 5,332

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

I agree, the more fortunate should be told to sit down and shut up in this case, unless there is some great reason to interfere with a small person making it in a small way.  Mercy should be considered as important.

Done.


Done.

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#630 2022-12-04 20:15:13

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 12,644

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

For SpaceNut --- inspired by your recent post about the Not In My Backyard response of the neighbor to a small home...

One possible answer to that scenario could be for some enterprising capitalist to see a potential market for millions of homeless people and create an entire city around the concept of tiny homes.

After all, that is effectively what is happening in refugee camps around the world.  Individuals and families are displaced, and UN agencies attempt to assist by providing tents or tent making materials.

The "entrepreneurial" aspect of this scenario is the potential that people might be able to collectively generate a profit for the investor.

The planned communities need water, power, communications and waste collection built into the infrastructure.

Just like refugee camps, I see no need for mechanized transportation, unless it might be something like street cars.

(th)

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#631 2022-12-04 20:30:42

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 27,140

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

I remember a time when Trailer parks were the in thing but due to a few making campgrounds into permanent resident parks that held trailers some of the cities clamped down on these and even tried to close them down, but they lost in courts as they were grand fathered under law to exit even if the city did not like it.

I have a couple of them set up with single lot sizes such that they are not able to see directly through your windows into the neighbors but not all are set up that way. Even some are setup for the over 55 only crowd that have downsized their homes.

Minimum lot size comes into play for land to build on as well due to zoning but in the end run these need power, plumbing, heat, water, sewerage waste collection to city systems or to a tank that would require pumping to get rid of it in time ect as you have noted for a proper design layout of these homes....

These due to the closeness of the structures need to be somewhat gated or with security to patrol to ensure safety for all.

So other needs for some tenants would be covered under welfare or other such programs to aid people to be able to move on in time from these tiny homes for the most part. Those that struggle with other issues should be given the chance to thrive not to continue down that path of homelessness.

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#632 2023-01-08 19:50:27

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 27,140

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

This would help if done in more ways than one since it creates a source of power for charging and shade.

Redditors are obsessed with South Korea’s ‘solar highway’ for bicycles: ‘Very neat’AA165OgW.img?w=534&h=300&m=6

Against the idea

While some commenters in the Reddit thread were skeptical about the covered bike lane in the middle of a highway, citing concerns like danger to the cyclists and noise and air pollution from surrounding cars, one Redditor claimed to be able to share a firsthand experience of biking on that particular road.

“I have had the luck of riding my bike on this ‘solar highway’ as well as the SolaRoad in the Netherlands and some of the smaller ones in South Korea,” writes the Redditor. “You can smell quite a bit of exhaust in the South Korean bike path … Still very neat and I believe they estimated the solar panels could power about 500 homes.”

There is no reason to have it without a barrier between you on a bike and cars on both sides of a highway and typically there are jersey barriers even between most multi lane highways, so this is minimal land and costs if done right to support a larger use of roads for safe use.

We have such a bike lane with barriers going over the route that I take to work

c4bfd495-c684-487d-8157-cd8f47d82210-Gen_Sullivan_rendering_1_1.png?width=660&height=371&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp

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#633 2023-01-08 21:07:40

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 12,644

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

For SpaceNut re #632

Thanks for this glimpse of a solar covered bike path ....

Can you clarify something... I ** think ** the solar panels are on a roof over the bike path, but can you confirm that?

***
Also ... it seems to me only a small leap from that to electric bikes with power pick up from the overhead solar panels.

That feature would encourage riding during the day time, but perhaps batteries could be incorporated into the design for evening traffic.

(th)

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#634 2023-01-08 21:39:19

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 27,140

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

https://interestingengineering.com/inno … lectricity

Under the overhead solar panels, cyclists use subterranean tunnels to enter and exit the path, which boosts safety tremendously since they can get on and off the bikeway without being involved in the regular traffic. Once on the route, they're shielded from the traffic on each side by barriers, and while that doesn't provide pleasant roadside views, it does offer sun protection.

video pf the path

https://www.deltadailynews.com/local/so … uth-korea/

There is a five-and-a-half mile bike path sitting in the middle of an eight-lane highway, topped with a solar panel that lights up the streets below in South Korea.

But this is no regular bike path. What started as an idea to produce clean energy while simultaneously giving people a place to exercise, South Korea built this eco-friendly cycle lane that connects the cities of Daejeon to Sejong — the administrative capital of South Korea — in 2014.

The 13-foot-wide path set in the middle of a highway is unique in South Korea, where most bicycle paths are built adjacent to pedestrian roads. But what really makes the path stand out is its one-of-a-kind feature — a solar panel-lined roof.

With 7,502 solar panels installed at intervals of approximately 30 inches, the paneling covers 3 miles of the 5.5 mile cycling highway and is capable of producing an annual average of 2,200 MWh of eco-friendly electricity that powers many of the streetlights and electronic displays in Sejong. In fact, the solar panels produce an equivalent amount of energy to power approximately 600 households, according to South Korea’s Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport

That is quite a bit of power being created...

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#635 2023-01-16 20:09:41

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 27,140

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

It seems that it is becoming poor and unemployed will become a law to attack people that have lost everything such as to be homeless.
More cities and states make homeless encampments a crime, leaving low-income people with few options

Federal data shows 582,462 people were experiencing homelessness on a single night in January 2022. Experts warn more people will enter homelessness as housing costs increase, if visible, unsheltered homelessness continues to grow in ways that cause danger is that the worse the housing situation gets, the more people we see on the streets, the more will be the push for these punitive policies

Sort of something that a tiny home can stop.

https://homelesslaw.org/wp-content/uplo … lement.pdf

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#636 2023-01-17 04:40:19

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 12,644

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

For SpaceNut re #635

Thanks for the quote showing a number for homeless people in the United States as 582,462 on a single night.  I'm assuming that is an estimate, computed using sampling data and extended over the population.  The figure is useful for trying to get a handle on the problem. 

I think it might be reasonable to add the number of people who are incarcerated to the total needing housing. 

In another topic, very recently, forum members have been discussing the small kit home (400 square feet) that RobertDyck found and posted.

That sample home would have cost millions of (monetary units) and a large corporation to design, build and deploy.  The only way that corporation (or it's investors) are going to recover their investment and have a prayer of earning even a small return is by finding a customer for thousands of those.

An approach that has worked in the past is the Levittown example. 

It seems possible to me that there may be plots of land available, perhaps totalling up to 582,462.  The concept I have in mind is to create walk-only communities with amenities such as food stores, pharmacy, doctor's and dentist offices, and the occasional hardware store for home improvement projects.

What I'm thinking about here is a program I caught recently, talking about helping incarcerated people to get back on their feet when they are released.

The bet made by society, in creating a starting point for individuals who are not performing at the minimum expected of a citizen, is that if a home is provided, then stability occurs in a disrupted life, and a sufficient number of individuals will recover to become productive to pay back the investment.

For that reason (those reasons) I'd like to try to encourage you to enlarge your vision of what is possible.

Instead of limiting your thinking to a single individual tiny home for a single person, I'm hoping your will think about how to provide comfortable, independent housing for a million people or so who need a running start in life.

Some will not succeed.  That seems inevitable.  But many will succeed, and acquire skills to become productive in the evolving highly technical society we humans are building.  The bet is that the productivity of those who succeed in making the transition will cover the costs of the program.

That is essentially what happened with the GI bill after World War II..... society made a ** really ** big bet, and ** BOY!!! ** did that pay off!

We probably won't see a comparable pay off for the small home initiative I'm thinking about, but a decent return on the investment seems likely.

(th)

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#637 2023-01-18 20:40:51

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 27,140

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

I did look at the jail release issue a bit the other day and it does have data to equally support that if you were homeless when you went in or pretty close that most of the time quickly you end up back in that same situation.

The Union leader today had a front-page article about a judgement to remove a tent encampment from in front of a shelter in take service center as its was on city property while all they wanted was the help that seem to not be coming from those that were to give it.

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