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#626 2022-11-02 06:25:09

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,420

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

For SpaceNut re topic

There would be NO poverty in America (or anywhere else) if the wealth of energy and material of the Universe were harnessed in sufficient quantity so that everyone could be served.

Over in the Abundance topic, Calliban is showing how that might be done.

In an ideal Universe, humans would be able to organize themselves so that everyone's needs can be met, while at the same time the desires of those who have desires could be pursued.

The American system provides for the pursuit of happiness.  it most definitely does NOT guarantee happiness.

Happiness requires work.

I'd like to separate meeting the needs of the population from the worthy goal of seeking happiness.

We have a few folks who consider it their business to require others to do things according to their idea of what is good and proper.

We'll probably always have folks like that.  It appears to be a part of the human condition.

However, meeting the needs of the population is a separate problem, which (I have faith) is addressable.

Calliban seems to be looking (admittedly with a skeptical eye) at one possible way to accomplish that.

(th)

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#627 2022-11-17 23:52:28

SpaceNut
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Posts: 28,598

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

Trying to change the equation of income is part of the answer if the other part which is expense also do not increase to a figure more than income.

A Washington company is creating $5,500 prefab tiny homes that can be setup in under one hour to help solve the homelessness crisis — take a look

600856cbe3d62500185fd59a?width=1000&format=jpeg&auto=webp

https://palletshelter.com/

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#628 2022-12-04 14:22:35

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
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Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

Why should a state, city or town have so much power as to housing?
A woman had to move out of her tiny home after 1 day because the city threatened to fine her $1,000 a day

A woman is suing the city of Meridian, Idaho, over its ban on living in mobile homes that threatened to fine her $1,000 a day if she continued living in it, because the action left her unhoused. Chasidy Decker of Meridian, Idaho, couldn't afford to buy a house, so she opted for the 252-square-foot tiny home and arranged to put it on Robert Calacal's property for $600 a month, according to the lawsuit.

A neighbor called the Meridian Police Department when the tiny home arrived on the property and asked whether living in it would be legal.

Decker and Calacal filed a lawsuit to challenge the city's ban, bringing five claims as to why the restriction on tiny homes breached the Idaho constitution.

Robert Belden, a lawyer with the Institute for Justice, told Insider: "Everyone needs a place to live, but the city would rather have Chasidy be homeless than living in a tiny home on wheels parked on private property. That's not just wrong, it's unconstitutional. Making Chasidy homeless does nothing to improve public health, safety, or welfare in Meridian, and it certainly doesn't improve Chasidy's."

"At a time when so few affordable housing options are available, why is the city's zoning ordinance further reducing such options?" Belden said.

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#629 2022-12-04 14:28:03

Void
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Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 6,844

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

I agree, the more fortunate should be told to sit down and shut up in this case, unless there is some great reason to interfere with a small person making it in a small way.  Mercy should be considered as important.

Done.


Done.

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#630 2022-12-04 20:15:13

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,420

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

For SpaceNut --- inspired by your recent post about the Not In My Backyard response of the neighbor to a small home...

One possible answer to that scenario could be for some enterprising capitalist to see a potential market for millions of homeless people and create an entire city around the concept of tiny homes.

After all, that is effectively what is happening in refugee camps around the world.  Individuals and families are displaced, and UN agencies attempt to assist by providing tents or tent making materials.

The "entrepreneurial" aspect of this scenario is the potential that people might be able to collectively generate a profit for the investor.

The planned communities need water, power, communications and waste collection built into the infrastructure.

Just like refugee camps, I see no need for mechanized transportation, unless it might be something like street cars.

(th)

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#631 2022-12-04 20:30:42

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
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Posts: 28,598

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

I remember a time when Trailer parks were the in thing but due to a few making campgrounds into permanent resident parks that held trailers some of the cities clamped down on these and even tried to close them down, but they lost in courts as they were grand fathered under law to exit even if the city did not like it.

I have a couple of them set up with single lot sizes such that they are not able to see directly through your windows into the neighbors but not all are set up that way. Even some are setup for the over 55 only crowd that have downsized their homes.

Minimum lot size comes into play for land to build on as well due to zoning but in the end run these need power, plumbing, heat, water, sewerage waste collection to city systems or to a tank that would require pumping to get rid of it in time ect as you have noted for a proper design layout of these homes....

These due to the closeness of the structures need to be somewhat gated or with security to patrol to ensure safety for all.

So other needs for some tenants would be covered under welfare or other such programs to aid people to be able to move on in time from these tiny homes for the most part. Those that struggle with other issues should be given the chance to thrive not to continue down that path of homelessness.

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#632 2023-01-08 19:50:27

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,598

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

This would help if done in more ways than one since it creates a source of power for charging and shade.

Redditors are obsessed with South Korea’s ‘solar highway’ for bicycles: ‘Very neat’AA165OgW.img?w=534&h=300&m=6

Against the idea

While some commenters in the Reddit thread were skeptical about the covered bike lane in the middle of a highway, citing concerns like danger to the cyclists and noise and air pollution from surrounding cars, one Redditor claimed to be able to share a firsthand experience of biking on that particular road.

“I have had the luck of riding my bike on this ‘solar highway’ as well as the SolaRoad in the Netherlands and some of the smaller ones in South Korea,” writes the Redditor. “You can smell quite a bit of exhaust in the South Korean bike path … Still very neat and I believe they estimated the solar panels could power about 500 homes.”

There is no reason to have it without a barrier between you on a bike and cars on both sides of a highway and typically there are jersey barriers even between most multi lane highways, so this is minimal land and costs if done right to support a larger use of roads for safe use.

We have such a bike lane with barriers going over the route that I take to work

c4bfd495-c684-487d-8157-cd8f47d82210-Gen_Sullivan_rendering_1_1.png?width=660&height=371&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp

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#633 2023-01-08 21:07:40

tahanson43206
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Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

For SpaceNut re #632

Thanks for this glimpse of a solar covered bike path ....

Can you clarify something... I ** think ** the solar panels are on a roof over the bike path, but can you confirm that?

***
Also ... it seems to me only a small leap from that to electric bikes with power pick up from the overhead solar panels.

That feature would encourage riding during the day time, but perhaps batteries could be incorporated into the design for evening traffic.

(th)

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#634 2023-01-08 21:39:19

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,598

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

https://interestingengineering.com/inno … lectricity

Under the overhead solar panels, cyclists use subterranean tunnels to enter and exit the path, which boosts safety tremendously since they can get on and off the bikeway without being involved in the regular traffic. Once on the route, they're shielded from the traffic on each side by barriers, and while that doesn't provide pleasant roadside views, it does offer sun protection.

video pf the path

https://www.deltadailynews.com/local/so … uth-korea/

There is a five-and-a-half mile bike path sitting in the middle of an eight-lane highway, topped with a solar panel that lights up the streets below in South Korea.

But this is no regular bike path. What started as an idea to produce clean energy while simultaneously giving people a place to exercise, South Korea built this eco-friendly cycle lane that connects the cities of Daejeon to Sejong — the administrative capital of South Korea — in 2014.

The 13-foot-wide path set in the middle of a highway is unique in South Korea, where most bicycle paths are built adjacent to pedestrian roads. But what really makes the path stand out is its one-of-a-kind feature — a solar panel-lined roof.

With 7,502 solar panels installed at intervals of approximately 30 inches, the paneling covers 3 miles of the 5.5 mile cycling highway and is capable of producing an annual average of 2,200 MWh of eco-friendly electricity that powers many of the streetlights and electronic displays in Sejong. In fact, the solar panels produce an equivalent amount of energy to power approximately 600 households, according to South Korea’s Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport

That is quite a bit of power being created...

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#635 2023-01-16 20:09:41

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
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Posts: 28,598

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

It seems that it is becoming poor and unemployed will become a law to attack people that have lost everything such as to be homeless.
More cities and states make homeless encampments a crime, leaving low-income people with few options

Federal data shows 582,462 people were experiencing homelessness on a single night in January 2022. Experts warn more people will enter homelessness as housing costs increase, if visible, unsheltered homelessness continues to grow in ways that cause danger is that the worse the housing situation gets, the more people we see on the streets, the more will be the push for these punitive policies

Sort of something that a tiny home can stop.

https://homelesslaw.org/wp-content/uplo … lement.pdf

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#636 2023-01-17 04:40:19

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,420

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

For SpaceNut re #635

Thanks for the quote showing a number for homeless people in the United States as 582,462 on a single night.  I'm assuming that is an estimate, computed using sampling data and extended over the population.  The figure is useful for trying to get a handle on the problem. 

I think it might be reasonable to add the number of people who are incarcerated to the total needing housing. 

In another topic, very recently, forum members have been discussing the small kit home (400 square feet) that RobertDyck found and posted.

That sample home would have cost millions of (monetary units) and a large corporation to design, build and deploy.  The only way that corporation (or it's investors) are going to recover their investment and have a prayer of earning even a small return is by finding a customer for thousands of those.

An approach that has worked in the past is the Levittown example. 

It seems possible to me that there may be plots of land available, perhaps totalling up to 582,462.  The concept I have in mind is to create walk-only communities with amenities such as food stores, pharmacy, doctor's and dentist offices, and the occasional hardware store for home improvement projects.

What I'm thinking about here is a program I caught recently, talking about helping incarcerated people to get back on their feet when they are released.

The bet made by society, in creating a starting point for individuals who are not performing at the minimum expected of a citizen, is that if a home is provided, then stability occurs in a disrupted life, and a sufficient number of individuals will recover to become productive to pay back the investment.

For that reason (those reasons) I'd like to try to encourage you to enlarge your vision of what is possible.

Instead of limiting your thinking to a single individual tiny home for a single person, I'm hoping your will think about how to provide comfortable, independent housing for a million people or so who need a running start in life.

Some will not succeed.  That seems inevitable.  But many will succeed, and acquire skills to become productive in the evolving highly technical society we humans are building.  The bet is that the productivity of those who succeed in making the transition will cover the costs of the program.

That is essentially what happened with the GI bill after World War II..... society made a ** really ** big bet, and ** BOY!!! ** did that pay off!

We probably won't see a comparable pay off for the small home initiative I'm thinking about, but a decent return on the investment seems likely.

(th)

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#637 2023-01-18 20:40:51

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
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Posts: 28,598

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

I did look at the jail release issue a bit the other day and it does have data to equally support that if you were homeless when you went in or pretty close that most of the time quickly you end up back in that same situation.

The Union leader today had a front-page article about a judgement to remove a tent encampment from in front of a shelter in take service center as its was on city property while all they wanted was the help that seem to not be coming from those that were to give it.

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#638 2023-01-31 19:21:30

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,420

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

The web site at the link below is showing manufactured homes made in traditional ways.

https://expohomes.com/

A few posts back there was discussion of a 400 square foot "home" that could be automatically assembled on a prepared site.

I would expect the homes at the site here would take a bit longer to set up.

The smallest offers 552 square feet, and it looks reasonable to me for a single occupant.

Prices start at the low $40k level, and climb from there.

(th)

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#639 2023-01-31 19:48:10

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,598

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

These prefab homes at one time were even less than 1/2 that a decade ago as they were made from lower quality materials and pieces rather than planned sheets were used in normal building.
These also need to consider that you must have a piece of property that is zoned and approved for this style of home construction. Not all companies that provide these take care of the buyers required connections and setup for use.

Updating post with image content that are quite beautiful..
Amazing tiny homes]AAV2Vwp.img?w=800&h=415&q=60&m=2&f=jpg

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#640 2023-02-18 19:03:07

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,598

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

Over and over the cities and states keep making the same mistake on what should be done for those that have become homeless.

California city bans people from living in tents amid homeless crisis

With more than 170,000 people living in tents and cars and sleeping outdoors on sidewalks and under highway overpasses, California is the epicenter of the nation’s homeless crisis, yet few, if any, communities have been able to make a significant dent in the number of unsheltered residents living within their borders.

Thats a huge number for a very large state...

Other states have also done the same.
More cities and states make homeless encampments a crime, leaving low-income people with few options

Federal data shows 582,462 people were experiencing homelessness on a single night in January 2022.

https://www.hud.gov/press/press_release … _No_22_022

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#641 2023-02-18 19:09:41

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 6,844

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

It is sad.

Done.


Done.

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#642 2023-02-18 21:44:28

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,420

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

This post was inspired by the exchange between SpaceNut and Void ...

Given an estimate of nearly 600,000 homeless in the US, I wondered what that number might be for the entire world.

The answer (excluding earthquake and war) seems to be about 2% of the population.  I expect recent disasters would increase that number.

Question for google ... how many homeless people are there in the world?

About 198,000,000 results (0.41 seconds)
150 million people
The last time a global survey was attempted – by the United Nations in 2005 – an estimated 100 million people were homeless worldwide. As many as 1.6 billion people lacked adequate housing (Habitat, 2015). In 2021, the World Economic Forum reported that 150 million people were homeless worldwide.

Global Homelessness Statistics - Homeless World Cuphttps://www.homelessworldcup.org › homelessness-statistics
Image result for how many homeless people in the world
Image result for how many homeless people in the world
Image result for how many homeless people in the world
About featured snippets

Feedback
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List of sovereign states by homeless population - Wikipediahttps://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › List_of_sovereign_stat...
It is estimated that 150 million people are homeless worldwide. ... Habitat for Humanity estimated in 2016 that 1.6 billion people around the world live in " ...

Global Homelessness Action - The Shifthttps://make-the-shift.org › homelessnessaction
As of today, 150 million people around the world are living in homelessness. That's equivalent to the entire population of the UK and France combined.

About Us - Institute of Global Homelessnesshttps://ighomelessness.org › about-us
Homelessness is a global challenge. The United Nations Human Settlements Program estimates that 1.6 billion people live in inadequate housing, and the best data ...

Homelessness by Country 2023 - World Population Reviewhttps://worldpopulationreview.com › country-rankings
Country    Homeless    2023 Population
Nigeria    24,400,000    223,804,632
Pakistan    20,000,000    240,485,658
Egypt    12,000,000    112,716,598
View 86 more rows

Homelessness - Our World in Datahttps://ourworldindata.org › homelessness
by E Ortiz-Ospina · 2017 · Cited by 21 — How many are homeless? ... Homeless people are among the most vulnerable groups in high-income countries. ... Commission on Global Poverty.

State of Homelessness: 2022 Editionhttps://endhomelessness.org › ... › Homelessness Statistics
In 2021, the Coronavirus pandemic interrupted homelessness data collection, specifically the Point-in-Time Count. Thus, the current version of the State of ...

21 Dreadful Homelessness Statistics & Facts - Movityhttps://movity.com › Blog
Aug 18, 2020 — 1. An estimated 2% of the world's population is considered homeless. ... That's an estimated 150 million individuals. However, it's perceived that ...

Homelessness Statistics Are Baffling, But Not Beyond Solvinghttps://newstoryhomes.org › Blog
Sep 26, 2019 — It's estimated that about two percent of the world's population is homeless. Two percent — it doesn't sound like much, but when you do the ...

Yet another emerging global crisis- Homelessness - MAHBhttps://mahb.stanford.edu › Library Items
Sep 13, 2019 — Based on national reports, it's estimated that no less than 150 million people, or about 2 percent of the world's population, are homeless to ...

(th)

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#643 2023-02-19 17:42:31

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,598

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessn … ted_States

https://www.statista.com/statistics/555 … in-the-us/
Estimated number of homeless people in the United States from 2007 to 2021

https://usafacts.org/data/topics/people … opulation/
This statistic is collected by the Department of Housing and Urban Development and reflects a snapshot of the homeless population as of a single night at the end of January each year. The total number of people who experience homelessness for some period each year will be higher than this figure.

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#644 2023-03-02 11:57:33

Mars_B4_Moon
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Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,674

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

Iconic Walmart is Permanently Closing in Portland....but some say Rampant crime and criminal homeless don't have any impact?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGY60Qq3Wrg

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#645 2023-05-21 09:23:27

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,598

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

Even thou RobertDyck aspires to create housing that is more sustainable there are many offers that can also work depending on location.
This tech startup is creating ‘smart homes’ that could change our monthly power bills forever: ‘We can figure this out’

Also forgotten is that amount of debt that some of carry when disater strikes.
8 Moves If You Want to Stop Living Paycheck to Paycheck

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#646 2023-06-04 17:58:14

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,598

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

Ok this is a close resemblance to the real deal
LEM9b93e68ff423394e8a5669e6bab833d0

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#647 2023-06-12 13:53:46

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,420

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

For SpaceNut .... This weekend NPR ran an interview with a gent who founded a company on the premise it's mission is to eliminate poverty.  It set as a corporate goal to distribute at least 1% of it's earnings to people living in poverty, and in good years it has distributed close to 3%. 

If you are curious to hear the interview, I'm pretty sure it is available in the NPR archives, or I can find out where it lives on the web.

The proprietor apparently made the decision to use capitalism to achieve worthy goals.

It would take a ** lot ** of companies like that to put a dent in poverty, but on the other hand, there appears to be a potential for such a concept to work.

(th)

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#648 2023-06-19 09:50:28

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,598

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

This will not solve all of the issues but its a good start.
A Texas real-estate investor created a tiny home village where sites rent for $700. Its residents get a slice of the American dream, and have formed a tight-knit community

I remember my first rent of an apartment that was 1-2 bedroom was in the 80's just $50 a week everything but electric was included.

Lots of details and images.

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#649 2023-06-19 09:57:25

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,420

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

For SpaceNut re Tiny Home community ...

Your report did not include the detail you have to bring your own tiny home.

The proprietor is providing electricity, clean water, sewer service and a security service.  You have to provide your own tiny home, and whatever furnishings you can fit into the property.

Plus! This is a rental situation, similar to a mobile home park.

The difference seems to be a tiny home is smaller than a mobile home.

In 2017,  Lantrip began construction on the property. He installed new water, sewer, and drainage lines, and built a communal laundry room for his future residents.

In 2018, the Lake Dallas Tiny Home Village finally opened with Lantrip as property manager.

The site has 13 rentable lots where residents can park their non-RV tiny homes. Twelve of the village's lots are currently occupied, with a new tenant expected to arrive soon. The waitlist for a spot in Lake Dallas Tiny Home Village is nearly a dozen long.

Residents pay around $700 each month for the site and communal facilities, which include a laundry room, fire pit, and garden.

The community garden is a nice touch.
(th)

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#650 2023-06-19 10:22:15

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,420

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

For SpaceNut re Tiny Home community...

Is this something that could flourish in New Hampshire?

I notice that the Texan had to deal (repeatedly) with the local government, but eventually they went along with his proposal.  What would happen in New Hampshire?

Along the same lines .... Such a community would need to be near to amenities such as:

1) food
2) pharmacy
3) library
4) hardware
5) police
6) fire
7) doctor
8) dentist
9) lawyer
10) post office branch
11) Uber service or similar

(th)

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