New Mars Forums

Official discussion forum of The Mars Society and MarsNews.com

You are not logged in.

Announcement

Announcement: As a reader of NewMars forum, we have opportunities for you to assist with technical discussions in several initiatives underway. NewMars needs volunteers with appropriate education, skills, talent, motivation and generosity of spirit as a highly valued member. Write to newmarsmember * gmail.com to tell us about your ability's to help contribute to NewMars and become a registered member.

#576 2021-01-19 18:34:34

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,099

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

Kbd512 I agree that we should let such building continue with the city support to reduce aid to those but that is only part of the answer as these cities are claiming that these are not fit for using in one regard or the other.

Calliban I too am skeptical of the increase as it will come at a cost to some one....whether is by job losses or higher taxes something needs to give for always dumping the change of things back to the consumer once a business does not change.

Offline

#577 2021-02-10 21:18:49

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,099

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

Here is the levels of income for the percentages that represent low income to the 1% and what those brackets earn...

This Chart Reveals How Much Money Families Will Get From Stimulus PackageBB1dzx5m.img?h=500&w=600&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f

https://itep.org/details-of-house-democ … xpansions/

20% earn less than &11,000 ouch....

Offline

#578 2021-02-11 11:58:24

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 4,615

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

Calliban,

There's no such thing as a minimum wage in objective reality.  It's merely another fictional concept peddled by communists seeking to destroy a country from within.  They do that in order to garner votes from destitute people so that their fellow communists can increase the power of the state, which the people impoverished by said communists falsely believe they have control over in some way (because they're typically not very bright).  Lots of deceased morons / "good communists" from the Soviet Union and China all thought that very same thing, just prior to being murdered by their all-powerful state.  That's just democracy in action, as our Democrats would no doubt claim.

Anyway...  Homeless people will clean the windshields of passing motorists for pocket change.  There's no OSHA dictating working conditions, no health care to protect them from on-the-job injuries, and no unions to funnel money into the coffers of their fellow communists.  That's precisely what this idiocy inevitably leads to, and I refuse to accept the idea that all communists are complete imbeciles, even though most of them are, so the only real unanswered question is how many homeless people our communists want to create.

YES!  People really are so stupid that they think they can dictate every aspect of life to other people.  We run an indoctrination program over here in America, plain and simple.  We can't have anyone thinking for themselves, or there'd scarcely be anyone left to steal from.  Why do you think we have mandatory state-sponsored education?  It sure as hell isn't to teach kids to think for themselves.  We glorify criminality and moronism to an absurd degree, then tell kids to behave themselves and to get an education.  Only profoundly stupid people wouldn't reject that kind of hypocrisy and societal decay.  Anyone who actually read a history book would note the number of wars, violent revolutions, and societal upheavals that have historically resulted from people who think they can dictate every aspect of life to everyone else living in a society, from cradle to grave.

If any of the kids over here had seen the mass graves of dead Russians and Chinese and Cubans, do you think many of them would be extolling the virtues of communism or wearing "Che Guevara" T-shirts?  These days, being a communist revolutionary is "cool" or "trendy" or whatever other buzzword these indoctrinated but not educated kids are using because they can't speak / read / write English.  The meaning of simple words has been hijacked by the communists for the express purpose of confusing and dividing stupid people into small tribes, in order to make them easy prey.

Offline

#579 2021-03-13 14:23:59

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,099

Offline

#580 2021-03-19 16:00:46

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,326

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

For SpaceNut ... the item quoted below is from the local paper ...

The name of the author and the name of the paper are available upon request ... My purpose here is to invite serious discussion of the premise ...

Rich won’t foot bill in Biden’s tax plan
Does Biden and the Democrats really think a tax
hike on $400,000 earners will be paid by those peo-
ple? Who pays for the price increase on bananas,
bread, autos, clothes and everything else? It gets built
into the cost of producing the items that anyone buys.
Look at the price of gasoline: it goes up and then drops
back some, if not all of the increase, when sales de-
crease. Clothing prices go up, and if no one buys, it
goes on sale or goes to a disposal seller to unload.
Profits on stock capital gains can be offset against
losses on other stocks. Numerous other “loopholes” in
the tax code allow offsets to avoid paying much of that
“taxing the rich.” As a small business owner, all my
costs are included in the final price my customers pay.
Taxing the rich is a fantasy, and Biden’s planned in-
crease will fall back on the “sheep” who fall for it.

In a preliminary evaluation of the writer's position, I think that the rich are indeed acting as "tax collectors" for the community at large.

The question that I think is open for discussion is how fair or regressive this system may be.  Individuals work through the market, so one way of approaching this is to conclude that individuals tax themselves (by paying for goods and services) only as much as they can afford.

Calliban and kbd512 and Louis have been engaged in a really substantial discussion in the Hydrogen from Fission topic.

(th)

Offline

#581 2021-03-19 16:41:53

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,326

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

As a follow up to the Letter-to-the-Editor posted in #582, I'd like to inquire if it might make sense to implement a system where rich people (ie, job creators) absorb ** all ** the burden of providing funds for operation of the society.

This would be combined with a policy to insure that every citizen of a nation is provided enough resources to live on.

A part of this could be to allow businesses to pay workers as little as possible (ie, $1.00 per hour) while the government fills in the difference to whatever a living wage is in a locality.

A "living" wage in this situation would be enough to rent an apartment, provide a minimal diet, and minimal health care.

Those who want to do better than the minimum would have a strong incentive to attempt to do so.

Those who cannot do better (and there are millions who are in this situation in the United States) would be provided a way to live off the streets and without starving.

(th)

Offline

#582 2021-03-19 18:14:40

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,099

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

If you can live on the gifts from government the why work at all. I am not for giving that to just everyone but for those disabled from medical and not of choice.

Offline

#583 2021-03-19 19:11:02

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,326

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

For SpaceNut re #584

It is time to address the attitude expressed in #584 head on ...

I believe that ** every ** person born is ready and willing and wanting to engage in meaningful activity.

Those positive attitudes can be and usually are killed off by adults shortly after birth.

Children of wealthy parents very rarely show no interest in productive activity, so I'll grant you that.  The vast majority work hard to become excellent in some field, and the support of their parents allows them to pursue those ambitions.

I believe that if ** every ** child enjoyed the support that the wealthy children enjoy, we (society) would see the same level of performance.

(th)

Offline

#584 2021-03-20 12:15:11

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,099

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

The earned wage per hour for the same job should be the same in every US State.

Offline

#585 2021-03-20 12:44:57

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 4,615

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

SpaceNut wrote:

The earned wage per hour for the same job should be the same in every US State.

SpaceNut,

The cost of living is not the same in every state.

Offline

#586 2021-03-20 14:53:42

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,099

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

Why is that not being compensated for then as a McDonald's worker is still a McDonald's worker from a business point....why would they want to pay a higher wage but for other than the state set a wage minimum...its why some will not work once they move to another state.

Offline

#587 2021-05-16 18:33:50

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,099

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

What I have described has been done LA's first prefab tiny home village for the homeless opened this year as a 'test case' for the city]BB1gMMd3.img?h=416&w=799&m=6&q=60&u=t&o=f&l=f

The program lasts for 90 days, but can be extended for an additional 90 days if they find the resident is making good headway and improvements, and is "actively working" with the case managers to meet goals.

Safety protection and skill building to get the help to be able to get oneself out of the gutter....

Offline

#588 2021-05-23 08:38:56

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,099

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

Another not in my backyard effort to stop that will continue on as Homeless camp in church parking lot? Denver neighbors say, 'No way'AAKhSmO.img?h=533&w=799&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f

Its a foot forward that many need to "access meals, medical care and other services."

Colorful outdoor fencing kept the encampment private, and bright red tents outfitted with electrical power for fans and heat were lined up in neat rows. Portable showers and toilets were positioned nearby, along with hand-washing stations and trash cans.

We need solutions like this that seek to mitigate harm, seek to reduce impacts in surrounding neighborhoods and, most importantly, seek to provide services and long-term housing connections to people on the streets

Offline

#589 2021-06-19 18:11:26

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,099

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

Republican lawmakers in Ohio, Arizona, Arkansas, Missouri, Montana and others have proposed more restrictive policies to qualify for food assistance, cutting off benefits to those who have saved a little money or who drive a halfway decent car, or adding paperwork requirements to document tiny changes in income and efforts to find work

In the Ohio state budget, Republicans inserted last-minute changes to SNAP. They now require recipients to report any shifts in income over $500 within 30 days and document child-support agreements. The law also now requires new reviews of assets, meaning those with as much as $2,250 in checking or savings accounts or those who own cars worth more than $4,650 could lose benefits. The changes were drawn from a bill sponsored by state Sen. Tim Schaffer, R-Lancaster.

cars are essential tools for re-employment and upward mobility.

Offline

#590 2021-07-02 05:20:12

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 885

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

Los Angeles considers stricter limits on homeless camping
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/los-angeles-c … 20679.html

California renters locked out of 7,677 homes despite eviction ban
https://www.dailynews.com/2021/07/01/de … ocked-out/

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2021-07-02 05:21:36)

Offline

#591 2021-07-18 20:46:04

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,099

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

Its sort of comical when cities and towns are trying to keep homes that could be affordable to the poor when Why billionaire Elon Musk downsized to a $50k tiny home

some would call it a shed for its size...

This was shown before elsewhere
AAM9DHz.img?h=416&w=799&m=6&q=60&u=t&o=f&l=f

Offline

#592 2021-07-24 10:43:28

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,099

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

Sort of admission that why we are here at this point with the many that can no long survive on what they earn.
Money printing is a flawed experiment that’s done America more harm than good

Offline

#593 2021-07-24 15:05:54

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 4,615

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

SpaceNut,

Given that you've recognized that you can't print your way out of a net economic prosperity problem, when will you also recognize that you could take every penny of what "the rich people have" (by the Democrats' current definition), and still fail miserably to fund the US government for 1 lousy year?

tahanson43206 appears to have recognized that you can't tax a business because the business turns right around and increases the cost of their goods or services or simply goes out of business when they can no longer remain globally competitive.  Obviously you can tax a business anything you like, but if they can't increase the price of their widgets, then they either pay their employees less or fire them, or go out of business altogether.

Offline

#594 2021-07-24 15:53:39

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,099

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

One commodity that has found a way to increase price is transparently done by changing its size, yes that is the food we buy at the stores. At one time a can of anything was 16 oz and as inflation continued upward the size of the can has shrank to 10 or 11 oz currently on the store shelves. Boxed products have also done the same by changing its shape and no longer filling it to capacity.

Offline

#595 2021-08-07 16:47:14

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,099

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

We know that the number of jobs has been shrinking since the covid waves keep occurring so those jobs that would be created from huge infrastructure bill The $1.2 trillion bill, designed to fund much-needed upgrades to US roads, highways, bridges and high-speed internet, $550 billion in new federal spending on the nation's aging infrastructure seems to me a means to the end of getting employment.

Offline

#596 2021-08-07 17:02:21

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 6,865

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

From what I understand, the genuine infrastructure elements in the bill are there to camouflage the deeply subsversive elements.


SpaceNut wrote:

We know that the number of jobs has been shrinking since the covid waves keep occurring so those jobs that would be created from huge infrastructure bill The $1.2 trillion bill, designed to fund much-needed upgrades to US roads, highways, bridges and high-speed internet, $550 billion in new federal spending on the nation's aging infrastructure seems to me a means to the end of getting employment.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

Offline

#597 2021-08-19 20:58:02

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,099

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

So not having enough money on hand to survive is a problem The (Minimum) Emergency Savings Needed in Every State

A recent GOBankingRates' survey found that 58% of Americans have less than $1,000 in savings, which isn't a whole lot when it comes to cost-of-living expenses.
The average total annual expenditures per year in the U.S. is a whopping $61,224, according to the 2018 Bureau of Labor Statistics' Consumer Expenditure Survey.

Here are a few states from the slides

Texas
Total annual expenditures: $56,265
Cost-of-living index: 91.9
Savings needed
3 months: $14,066
4 months: $18,755
5 months: $23,444
6 months: $28,132

New Hampshire
Total annual expenditures: $66,428
Cost-of-living index: 108.5
Savings needed
3 months: $16,607
4 months: $22,143
5 months: $27,678
6 months: $33,214

Offline

#598 2021-08-21 20:07:59

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,099

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

With the last few years having many stimulus and unemployment funds increased as well as duration one would not see this coming as universal basic income seems to be catching on.
How one universal basic income experiment is helping the homeless get off the streets

The program was designed so that the $500 monthly income would not interfere with other government benefits the participants may receive.

All of the participants had to set up bank accounts in order to receive the money. They also were paired with a "buddy" from the community, with whom they would keep in touch. Financial coaches were also available upon request to help them navigate their new resources.

Notably, there were no requirements as to how they used the money.

The initial results of that pilot were "astonishing," Adler said, with more than 35% of the participants able to use that monthly income to secure permanent housing. "I wasn't anticipating anyone getting housed. That was not even a thing we were measuring at first," Adler said.

It must have been enough with what they had for other resources but under normal income they could not have a roof over there heads.

Offline

#599 2021-08-27 13:36:57

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,099

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

repost

Its that price tag that makes it feel like its for the rich as a toy...

I am looking at the cost versus expense for a vehicle use.

It is sad that your yearly earnings can support a 35% purchase in cash or financed whether its used or new for a purchase.
That financed as well as the ownership costs must be less than the 10% of the monthly moneys to pay for having it not to exceed 15% with you needing to replace or repair yearly depending on its aging.

This has nothing to do with being rich or how many you need to transport with one.

2021 POVERTY GUIDELINES

  • Persons in family/household    Poverty guideline
    For families/households with more than 8 persons, add $4,540 for each additional person.
    1    $12,880
    2    $17,420
    3    $21,960
    4    $26,500
    5    $31,040
    6    $35,580
    7    $40,120
    8    $44,660

of course state numbers for the table are weighted for cost of living.

ignoring the per person you can buy for $12,880 yearly earnings of just $4,508 with the monthly pay out being for use of $1,288 to $1,932...
Sure the more you earn the more you can afford but there are still lending limits and income stability to consider.

Offline

#600 2021-08-27 13:50:22

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,099

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

This includes insurance, gas, repairs and maintenance, parking and even tolls. states with taxation


If you bought a $30,000 car in Florida, then you also would pay the following:

Sales tax: $1,800 (6% sales tax)
Initial registration fee: $225
New title fee: $77.25
Original license plate fee: $28
Dealer fee: $399 (varies by location)
TOTAL: $2,529.25

Sure these are based on price of what you purchase and used will be lower...

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB