Why do we have Poverty in America

SpaceNut · 2020-07-30 19:29:37

Basic Income: Could This Out-There Idea Get America Out of the COVID Crisis?

You could think of a basic income as being like “Social Security for all.” Not only would a basic income theoretically make a number of other social programs redundant, but it could also reduce government spending in many other ways.

Is some one channeling Bernie?

Terraformer · 2020-07-31 03:41:48

Bernie? This was Yang's big idea, as part of his campaign of big ideas.

tahanson43206 · 2020-07-31 05:01:17

For Terraformer re #504

Thank you for giving Andrew Yang credit for his strenuous effort to promote Basic Income.

From the article SpaceNut cited:

It’s an idea that started to get mainstream attention earlier this year with the presidential campaign of Andrew Yang, and one that could be ideally suited to the country’s current crisis.

In my opinion, the vast majority of Americans who would receive such income would spend it wisely and frugally, and thus would pump billions of US dollars into the economy in ways that (I'm confident) Adam Smith would approve.

A small percentage of those investments would be successful in generating income for the individual or family, and just as expected by venture capitalists who expect to lose 9 out of 10 times, the 1 out of 10 times will out produce all the failures.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-07-31 16:51:15

Terraformer wrote:

Bernie? This was Yang's big idea, as part of his campaign of big ideas.

Thanks for the correction.

tahanson43206 · 2020-07-31 17:38:10

For SpaceNut ... we're about to see a ** lot ** more poverty in America, now that Congress has gone home without taking action to keep millions afloat.

(th)

kbd512 · 2020-07-31 17:52:26

tahanson43206,

Really? Those same people who write stories about universal basic income also write other stories about how the average American is buried by a mountain of credit card and student loan debts that they may never be able to pay back. Non-sequitur much? Are you saying that 9 out of 10 people who attempt to generate income using their new-found free cash are still going to fail to feed / house / clothe themselves without more government assistance?... Even after we hand them free cash? If so, then can you begin to understand why some people believe that you either succeed or fail on your own merits? What is the purpose of parenting if not to produce an adult who is intelligent and mature enough to make good personal decisions that don't require an independently wealthy benefactor to back-stop their poor choices?

Well, it's only funny money anyway. I'm not sure how "generating" a "few" extra 1s and 0s at this point will actually hurt anything. Throw it up in the air and wave your hands around like you just don't care.

As I said before, someone here put your thinking cap on and come up with an exchange system that doesn't require money, if you dislike capitalism as currently practiced so much, and then we'll talk about whatever the equivalent is of universal basic income under that system. That's what you really want, so that's what you need to do. Muh communism and muh socialism have either already failed or are, in point of fact, propped up by that evil capitalist system anywhere those ideas are attempted, so let's come up with a fundamentally new system that satisfies our magical thinkers and then let's see how things shake out under that fundamentally new system.

I think we all know why no fundamentally new economic systems have been tried thus far. The people who claim to be creative really aren't that creative, merely angry that they don't understand how or care enough to manipulate the system to their advantage (apart from supporting the exceptionally lazy "rob Peter to pay Paul" nonsense), they have little to no understanding of how the current economic systems actually work, and/or sheer laziness prevents them from breaking a sweat trying to come up with a fundamentally better way than what capitalism already accomplishes. Everything I've seen thus far is some minor variation on "I'm going to rob Peter to pay Paul" and, naturally, that'll make everything all better. Maybe it will, until Peter stops working, and then that plan falls to pieces almost immediately, if not sooner.

I already know what separates Elon Musk from nearly everyone else, mostly because somewhere along the way someone (my parents) thought it was important to teach me how to think, rather than what to think. Nobody "simply gets lucky" thousands of times in a row. Just as there are hierarchies of power, there are also hierarchies of competence. He's more creative, more intelligent, and willing to work harder than at least 99% of all other people on Earth. That's why he has so much money. Notice that he doesn't have any free time to spend it, though, because his work dictates that he literally eats and sleeps in the factory.

Then we have people like Kim Kardashian may be about as intelligent as a fence post in comparison to Elon Musk, or you or I or 50% of the rest of the people on planet Earth for that matter, but even she knows how to use what she has to make more money. There's an army of couch potatoes who are intellectually-challenged enough to watch her, the media knows exactly who to "sell her" to, there's an endless supply of such people, and one way or another they transfer their dollars from their bank accounts, and in that process wealth is transferred from less competent to more competent people (at making money, not necessarily anything else). That leads to her and the people who put her on TV... becoming more wealthy than most other people alive. Imagine what life would be like if there weren't many people who spent their free time vegetating in front of their TV. Being an actor or actress would merely be a hobby that still requires a real job. However, we have enough brainwashed zombies running around that the media industry is unlikely to ever run out of money or garden variety simpletons to put on TV for other garden variety simpletons to idolize. Why do they do that? Well, unfortunately for us, our socialists can't seem to redistribute universal basic intelligence.

Kim may be morally bankrupt and 50% of the populace may be able to run circles around her, academically speaking, but none of that matters because she has an hourglass shape and she's more than willing to jiggle what she's got for a little money. Someone out there is going to stare at her. I listened to her talk for about a minute or two and decided that my brain couldn't handle that much stupid.

I've now spent most of my adult life working on the supply chain management systems that make life as most of us here in America enjoy it, an actuality rather than possibility. I'll never make as much money as Kim does by being a clown on TV, but I also don't care. Kim and Elon can keep their money, as far as I'm concerned, because they've earned it. Someone was either dumb enough or smart enough to give it to them, so now it belongs to them, not you or I. BTW, I'm not ragging on Kim, either. I think she's great because her behavior and what it causes punishes both her and the people watching her at the same time for not making better choices regarding what to do with their time. I think Elon is great precisely because of the showcasing of the rewards that come from hard work and intelligence.

If Uncle Sam wants to print more money and hand it out to people who contributed even less than Kim Kardashian to our society, then that's his business. However, he'd better not come to my door with his hand out, demanding more money from people like me, to support someone else's "lifestyle choices". That's where this nonsense inevitably ends up.

Hint:
Most people don't work to gain leisure, let alone for pleasure, they work to avoid starving to death. That's how much "force" has to be applied to keep everyone in society fed and moving forward, not backwards. Think about that for a moment. We have to use the threat of starvation to get people to show up for work. What does that say about what we'd otherwise do if presented with the choice? If we attain such wild levels of excess that we want for nothing and require little to nothing in the way of labor to continue that way of life, then I'll withdraw my opposition to universal basic income. Until then, you show up for work or you don't eat. On that note, governments shouldn't have any say in when people can work unless they're providing the paychecks, rather than the tax payers.

SpaceNut · 2020-07-31 18:57:04

Eligibility requirements to qualify for unemployment compensation vary from state to state.
To qualify for unemployment, you'll need to have lost your job through no fault of your own. Generally, you're not eligible for unemployment if you quit or were fired, unless you were fired for something minor or you quit for a valid reason, like ongoing harassment. In most states, this means you have separated from your last job due to a lack of available work.

The corona virus does not qualify if the company folds, or if they can not open for business operation and that makes you fired not able to collect even under the cares act. Then if you were able to work for a few day and are laidoff you do not qualify again for help. There are no jobs or few to go seek out.

Of course you have the verifiction step in which you could have beentold you were let go or laidoff and a response letter of details are ask to be verified in writing of which a no response you are in but a returned might be you were fired and you would get nothing.

In the good old days you would go to work as self-employed but that is less likely to be barely survival in most cases. I know as I did 2 years and made after putting in 60 hour weeks just 6k after expenses. Not everything you can do for others can earn big bucks....

tahanson43206 · 2020-07-31 19:29:15

This is a quote from kbd512 in post #508

Most people don't work to gain leisure, let alone for pleasure, they work to avoid starving to death.

SearchTerm:WorkReasonFor

"Most" would mean more than 50% of people who work.

Taking the population of Earth as a whole, this estimate might be right.

Individuals who are higher in the Maslow Hierarchy would have no idea what kbd512 is talking about.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-07-31 19:42:44

work can be pleasurable if you are and do enjoy what you do for work. Even if you are underpaid for what you do and are made happy by and with those that you work with.
One does work to not need to continue to stayed working forever.
We work as it costs money not bartering or farming as we did a century ago.

Terraformer · 2020-08-01 06:29:35

Those same people who write stories about universal basic income also write other stories about how the average American is buried by a mountain of credit card and student loan debts that they may never be able to pay back.

Debt needs to be dealt with too.

We could make a big difference by abolishing usurious compound interest. It wouldn't affect debt that is being paid back, since that debt doesn't compound, but it would prevent people from being buried by a debt that is far larger than they originally took on. There shouldn't be a problem with getting secured debt such as mortgages, either.

Such a form of debt isn't something we lack experience with. That's basically what a bond is - a fixed percentage paid each year until the bond is redeemed. Bonds don't compound unless you're paying for them by issuing new ones.

SpaceNut · 2020-08-01 14:50:37

The changing reason for a social system. I’m 63, a widow and lost my job because of COVID. I don’t have much in savings and feel lost. What can I do? laid off from my restaurant job of 34 years.

I don’t have a lot of savings as I worked paycheck to paycheck, I have about $40,000 in my 401(k). I owe $100,000 on my house. You’d see a lower benefit now than if you waited because you have not yet reached your Full Retirement Age. Still, when you speak to a representative at the SSA, ask what your own benefits would be now, at Full Retirement Age and at 70 (the latest you could begin claiming). Benefits taken before Full Retirement Age are affected by employment, however, Cannata said. There is an earnings limit of $18,240 in 2020, and individuals lose $1 in benefits for every $2 earned above that threshold. You are older than the minimum age requirement of 59 ½ years old to withdraw from 401(k) plans without any penalties, but for readers who are in this scenario and not yet 59 ½, it is important to note that the federal government, under the CARES Act, expanded eligibility requirements for people who may need to withdraw or borrow from their 401(k) plans. The rule allows people to distribute or borrow the lesser of $100,000 or 100% of their account balance without any penalties.

tahanson43206 · 2020-08-03 07:55:24

Speaking of Andrew Yang .... he is back in the news with backing from a couple of tech entrepreneurs ...

https://www.yahoo.com/news/andrew-yangs … 00208.html

For SpaceNut ... As I understand the article, the qualifications for participating in this initiative are different from traditional vetting.

It is quite possible you may know one or more people in your part of the country who would qualify.

The stipend is intended to be $3000 per recipient ... It is (apparently) like a Micro-McArthur grant ... It can be used for education, for example

Please post if you are able to help someone to qualify

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-08-03 17:18:48

The pandemic unemployed were displace as fired, furloughed, and unemployed by layoff.
Nearly half of all furloughed workers now believe their temporary layoff will become permanent
If you have not been called back by now then you may never go back.
Couple that with business closures and you have rising unemployed....

tahanson43206 · 2020-08-03 17:47:57

For SpaceNut re the need to place folks in jobs (assuming they exist)

Here is part of an email from a government official in a local district. I hoped you might be interested to see how this effort is changing during the pandemic:

. That’s why, for the past 9 years, I have hosted an annual job fair. Now, as our country is faced with double-digit unemployment as a result of the shutdown of large segments of our economy, helping folks find gainful employment has never been more important.
However, we also need to take precautions to ensure we are not exposing our neighbors to the coronavirus. That’s why this year’s job fair is going to be different.
I am very excited to announce that my office will be hosting a virtual job fair.
This online experience will offer the same opportunities of a traditional job fair from the safety of your home. You will have the chance to meet with prospective employers live via video chat. It is free to participate. More information will be coming soon. To make sure you don’t miss any of the updates, click here to sign up for the mailing list.
2020 VIRTUAL JOB FAIR
DATE: Tuesday, September 8, 2020
SIGN UP: Click here to receive the link and login when it becomes available. It is free to participate.
FOR MORE INFORMATION CALL ANY OF MY DISTRICT OFFICES OR VISIT MY WEBSITE BY CLICKING HERE.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-08-03 19:33:24

Job fairs are not always for a current opening and are just resume hunting or hoping to pull talent to get rid of a current employee.
Sometimes its for future possible near term growth.

I have also seen it used as advertising for those business which might be at the job fair as well.

35 Companies That Have Filed for Bankruptcy Since the Pandemic Began — and 14 That Could Be Next

tahanson43206 · 2020-08-04 05:34:25

For SpaceNut re #517

Your response to the initiative by a local politician surprised me, but it is consistent with your generally skeptical approach to any topic that might come up.

In this case, I reported an initiative by someone who is trying to help constituents to find jobs. What is innovative about the effort is that it will feature an experiment with online job search. Online job search has been going on at the higher levels of employment for quite some time, but this is the first initiative I've heard of that will try to serve folks at the lower end of the employment spectrum.

I'll take your objections one at a time ...

Job fairs are not always for a current opening

In the present context, of people desperate for employment, I would find that behavior out of keeping with the intent of the effort

Therefore, if I were organizing the event, I would stipulate that the positions offered should be for current openings.

However, as I think about that, I realize that a company opening a new facility may not be immediately ready to put people to work. My guess is that in practice, an employer will start looking for staff before the facility is ready, so that the staff can be put to work as soon as the paint is dry.

For that reason, I'll ask you to expand a bit on your concern for openings being current or not.

just resume hunting or hoping to pull talent to get rid of a current employee.

It would seem to me (again in the current context) that such behavior would be out of synchronization with the needs of the population to be served.

Sometimes its for future possible near term growth.

Why would an employer go to the expense of taking resumes for "possible" growth.

In the present circumstance, many employers are barely hanging on at all, let along anticipating significant future growth.

I have also seen it used as advertising for those business which might be at the job fair as well.

We live in a capitalist society. Everyone at a job fair is advertising. That is perfectly normal behavior. In fact, it would be counter intuitive if the companies at the fair were ** not ** advertising their capabilities to provide beneficial employment to the candidates.

I think that the initiative by the politician should be applauded and supported as much as possible. The proposed activity looks to me like a good use of taxpayer funds. Under the current circumstances, I would expect a severe mismatch between opportunities and candidates. At least the candidates do not have to drive long distances to stand in a warehouse full of hundreds of candidates hoping for a small number of positions, as I had the "opportunity" to do a while back.

This initiative ** also ** may provide a model for others to use around the country, and potentially elsewhere.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-08-04 18:49:27

We now have an old way to get a job by looking at obituary as a result of gun violence.

tahanson43206 · 2020-08-04 21:21:20

For SpaceNut re post #519

Search Results
Web results
Obituary Jobs, Employment | Indeed.comwww.indeed.com › q-Obituary-jobs
76 Obituary jobs available on Indeed.com. Apply to ... All filters. Page 1 of 76 jobs ... I want to receive the latest job alert for Obituary ... Related to this search.

You may be on to something.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-08-06 14:46:21

The not economy... Nearly one third of people that have gone back to work after being laid off during the coronavirus pandemic have lost their jobs again, study finds

SpaceNut · 2020-08-08 16:22:29

The House and Senate failed to come up with any sort of relief bill as they could not even agree on amounts to be given for help to the unemployed.

This becoming the new normal A Memphis woman, barely recovering from COVID-19, was evicted from her home

we know those that survive after about a month in the hospitals are in recovery possibly unable to work..

Calculating America’s eviction crisis: Up to 40 million people are at risk of being kicked out of their homes

Permanent remote workforce may be around 10% after pandemic, says Cushman & Wakefield CEO

The unemployment executive order while its 400 a week it puts the states on the hook for 100 of that payment which is not legal to do. Expect law suits to follow....

SpaceNut · 2020-08-17 19:06:11

How would Trump or Biden approach housing and homelessness? BB184zFC.img?h=768&w=1366&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f

kbd512 · 2020-08-18 11:41:56

SpaceNut,

That's actually a very good question.

Since there are so many homeless people living in Democrat-run California, why don't you ask some Californians how Democrats there approach their own homelessness problems?

There aren't any Republicans in office in Los Angeles, so you can't blame them. I know you will anyway, but people who aren't brain dead will see through this finger pointing attempt rather quickly.

Their answer seems to be to have them defecating on the streets and employing people to run around the city cleaning up human feces. All these Democrat-run cities look like "peaceful war zones", complete with "peaceful riots" and "peaceful looting" and "peaceful murder"- or at least their victims look peaceful after they're dead. The enlightened ivory tower residents who live there keep voting for Democrats, so they must enjoy the general mayhem, death and destruction. Then again, since a million people are leaving California each decade, maybe they've come to realize that the Democrats don't have all the answers.

SpaceNut · 2020-08-18 16:42:24

Seems like the problem is to ignore them and not give an actual aid program to them. One in which job training for better than low end essential jobs would be in order. Next seems to be rent control that actually goes after the slum loads to keep the place fit to live in. Now a jobs creation program that builds up that core program of training for that higher paying level job. Other programs as needed to make these and other employable.

This might be a bit better than a tent and gains one a bit of mobility.

SpaceNut · 2020-08-20 16:33:13

No company can stay in business if it's consistently paying its employees a dollar for producing 75 cents worth of revenue, regardless of the product in question or the structure of the market.

Subsidized — not minimum — wages should assist workers during the pandemic

kbd512 · 2020-08-20 16:57:11

SpaceNut,

Your political party's latest minimum wage scheme will only ever lead to the firing of more workers. I hope you realize that. If there's no money to be made, at least enough to pay for the costs of doing business, then there's no way to stay in business. That said, the solution in your mind, as always, is more government intervention to dictate to the market what labor prices will be.

Why oh why didn't they not make passing Economics 101 in college mandatory for all students?

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#501 2020-07-30 19:29:37

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

#502 2020-07-31 03:41:48

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

#503 2020-07-31 05:01:17

Re: Why do we have Poverty in America

#504 2020-07-31 16:51:15

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#505 2020-07-31 17:38:10

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#506 2020-07-31 17:52:26

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#507 2020-07-31 18:57:04

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#508 2020-07-31 19:29:15

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#509 2020-07-31 19:42:44

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#510 2020-08-01 06:29:35

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#511 2020-08-01 14:50:37

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#512 2020-08-03 07:55:24

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#513 2020-08-03 17:18:48

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#514 2020-08-03 17:47:57

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#515 2020-08-03 19:33:24

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#516 2020-08-04 05:34:25

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#517 2020-08-04 18:49:27

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#518 2020-08-04 21:21:20

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#519 2020-08-06 14:46:21

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#520 2020-08-08 16:22:29

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#521 2020-08-17 19:06:11

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#522 2020-08-18 11:41:56

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#523 2020-08-18 16:42:24

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#524 2020-08-20 16:33:13

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#525 2020-08-20 16:57:11

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