New Mars Forums

Official discussion forum of The Mars Society and MarsNews.com

You are not logged in.

Announcement

Announcement: As a reader of NewMars forum, we have opportunities for you to assist with technical discussions in several initiatives underway. NewMars needs volunteers with appropriate education, skills, talent, motivation and generosity of spirit as a highly valued member. Write to newmarsmember * gmail.com to tell us about your ability's to help contribute to NewMars and become a registered member.

#26 2017-03-08 13:38:39

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 4,615

Re: Countries Without Armed Forces

Scott,

Maybe social sciences never exposed you to human nature, but your ideas about how Martian colonists will behave is another version of utopian fantasy land where no one ever hurts anyone else, we all get along with and respect each other, and nobody has those icky baddy bad weapons.  That form of humanity doesn't exist, it never has, and if it ever did you could bet your last dollar that some low life would be along swiftly to destroy it.  We have people who kill each other over what pair of shoes they're wearing, what color the shoes are, and whether or not a shoe is on one foot versus the other.

The United Nations, like so many other groups of "concerned" criminal multi-national organizations, doesn't follow its own rules and nobody listens to them, except when armed soldiers are sent into other countries.  Again, more compliance at the muzzle of a rifle.  Any treaty it enforces will be done at the muzzle of a rifle.  You know, those people with weapons you don't like who create fantasy land for you to live in.

Have Hutterites ever seen a computer before, never mind an interplanetary transport system?  You want to ship them off to a place where the air they breathe depends on a computer, so I thought I'd ask.  I have no idea what kind of neighbors Hutterites are, but they're alive today because the most powerful military on this planet defends the places they live with the most powerful weapons we can devise.  They're left to their own devices because nobody in our government sees them as a threat to the government.  Hutterites would otherwise be victims for unscrupulous people to rape, rob, and murder.

Last edited by kbd512 (2017-03-08 13:47:31)

Offline

#27 2017-03-08 17:25:30

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 6,743
Website

Re: Countries Without Armed Forces

Scott Beach wrote:

I want the Martian regime to be very accommodating to Hutterites.  The Hutterites are the fastest growing human population on Earth (on average, 10 children are produced by each married couple).  They have achieved utopia in the sense that homicides never occur in their "colonies" (60 to 160 people).  They are pacifists; they have no military weapons.  Hutterites are good neighbors.

My grandparents on my father's side were Mennonites. Hutterites, Mennonites, and Amish are all Anabaptist. The anabaptist movement started with the Radical Reformation, which started the Protestant movement. For some reason, Anabaptists themselves no longer consider themselves to be Protestant; they're "different". roll My great-grandparents lived in a Mennonite reservation, but that reservation was converted to a normal farming town. My grandfather took over the family farm, he farmed with modern equipment: tractor, combine, grain truck, etc. My great-grandfather's original house was still on the property, but my grandfather built a normal Canadian house with electricity, running water, flush toilet, etc. He also built a double garage and had a current model car. But my grandparents continued to dress in the traditional Mennonite black-and-white garb, and attend the Mennonite church on Sunday.

They also spoke Plattdeutsch; my grandfather spoke English with an accent, my grandmother never learned English at all. The English name for that language is "Low German", but it's more closely related to Dutch. It was the language spoken by rural farming communities at the time they left, centuries ago; spoken in the Netherlands, Germany, Prussia, Austria, etc. Today those countries have national languages, based on the language the upper class spoken at university in the capital of each country; but at the time of the Radical Reformation that started the Protestant church, rural villages in those countries spoke Plattdeutsch. That's a Germanic language, there was more variation from one village to the next village just 10 miles down the road than from one country to the next.

When I was in elementary school, our teacher took us on a field trip one day to a Hutterite colony. They also used modern equipment, but the colony was a commune. There was extreme chauvinism, women ate at a dining table separate from men. Each member only owned the clothes on his/her back, everything else was owned by the commune. The small population meant they could keep track of who was a slacker, apply heavy social pressure to ensure everyone did his/her job. I wouldn't call their commune a "utopia", far from it.

During the early days of Canada, the government encouraged Mennonites to migrate to Canada. They were hardworking and peaceful. Most Mennonites today do not live in any sort of commune, they're just Canadians who attend the Mennonite church. In fact there's a Mennonite church across the street from my house, and two blocks away in the other direction is a Mennonite high school. So I'm quite familiar with them.

My father joined the United Church; he doesn't consider himself Mennonite, but a lot of the values carry through. He was one of 11 children, 12 if you count the baby that died at 3-months old. So I have 8 uncles and 2 aunts on my father's side, each of which got married and had 2-5 children, most of whom got married and had children of their own. The last family reunion on my father's side had over 50 people, but that's because over 20 couldn't make it. My generation have smaller families: my brother had 1 daughter, my sister had 1, and I haven't had any children (yet).

Hutterites often come into town to shop. Winnipeg has a lot of yard sales and garage sales in summer; Hutterites often show up. They're shrewd negotiators and cheap. They don't outright steal, but they consider "The English" (anyone not Anabaptist) to be amoral, so have no qualms about cheating you. Be very careful when a Hutterite shows up.

Last edited by RobertDyck (2017-03-08 18:59:52)

Offline

#28 2017-03-08 18:56:37

Scott Beach
Banned
Registered: 2017-02-21
Posts: 132

Re: Countries Without Armed Forces

RobertDyck wrote:
Scott Beach wrote:

I want the Martian regime to be very accommodating to Hutterites.

Robert: The Hutterites are farmers.  I believe that Hutterites could be very important to efforts to turn Mars into a green, beautiful world.  A Martian city of 10,000 people might be surrounded by up to 100 Hutterite colonies that produce food for themselves and for the city dwellers. 

The high reproduction rate of the Hutterites, and corresponding increases in their ability to produce food, would allow city populations to grow rapidly by a combination of immigration from Earth and natural increases.


"It is possible to build a rational and humane culture completely free from the threat of supernatural restraints."  Arthur C. Clarke, The Songs of Distant Earth

Offline

#29 2021-05-23 15:18:18

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 885

Re: Countries Without Armed Forces

An interesting thing here, the Cosmonaut Survival Gun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TP-82_Cos … val_pistol

at one time the Russians and Soviets before the break up of the USSR used a specific gun for space, i guess to help suvive in case the landed in a place with Bears and Wolf...later

'the TP-82 had become unusable'

Also to take not of Japan and Germany, both de-militarized but spending less on arms and perhaps both having enjoyed the benefits of protection from the US

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2021-05-23 15:19:38)

Offline

#30 2021-05-23 18:01:55

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 6,865

Re: Countries Without Armed Forces

Japan and Germany both have armed forces. In Japan they are referred to as "Self Defence Forces" as they are not supposed to have an army.

Mars_B4_Moon wrote:

An interesting thing here, the Cosmonaut Survival Gun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TP-82_Cos … val_pistol

at one time the Russians and Soviets before the break up of the USSR used a specific gun for space, i guess to help suvive in case the landed in a place with Bears and Wolf...later

'the TP-82 had become unusable'

Also to take not of Japan and Germany, both de-militarized but spending less on arms and perhaps both having enjoyed the benefits of protection from the US


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB