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#51 2021-11-30 06:18:36

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 12,009

Re: Desalinating water

For SpaceNut re #50

This forum has the potential to become a resource for students wanting to learn how to live on Mars.

Your post #50 contains an intriguing set of ideas.  Would you be willing to expand them a bit?

The atmosphere of Mars is a near vacuum, but perhaps a greater vacuum would cause water to boil?

Mars is so cold that all water will be frozen, so I'm looking forward to learning how freezing the water further would make a difference.

Hopefully there will be more than one reader who will be watching closely as you develop this set of ideas.

(th)

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#52 2021-11-30 06:22:44

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 12,009

Re: Desalinating water

For Calliban re desalination of sea water ....

I am hoping you won't mind if I copy your post on this subject from the fuels topic ...

Calliban wrote:
tahanson43206 wrote:

For Calliban re #371

Thank you for your reply!  I am saving this post for a reply later today.  Chores are calling, but I wanted to let you know two things:

1) Thanks for your reply
2) The Phoenix Water initiative is NOT stalled, although the Social Engineering to bring it about is under furious revision as recipients are evaluated.

The Phoenix Water initiative is happening because of your sustained and consistent advocacy for nuclear fission to meet human needs of the present time.

The gent who's working the problem would not have been thinking about it if I had not contacted him, ** and ** if kbd512 had not provided so  much help with calculations that showed that the existing Palo Verde plant could supply all the fresh water that Phoenix needs, and have plenty of power left over to supply fresh water to much of Arizona, as well as a 10% share to Mexico for the kindness of allowing Arizona to sip water from the Sea of Cortez (Gulf of California).

I am holding steady to a vision of sizing the power plant sufficient to consume ** all ** the sea water, and NOT return a molecule to the Sea of Cortez.

A major (social) impediment has been the insistence of previous US originated designs to return vast quantities of brine to the Sea of Cortez.

If I am successful in helping the thought process along (and that is most definitely NOT guaranteed) then 10% of the water shipped North would be returned to Yuma as fresh water destined for distribution to Mexico via existing facilities, and NOTHING else would be returned.

The US side would have the benefit of all the Sodium, Chlorine, Magnesium and most importantly, Deuterium that would be removed from the input stream.

(th)

If the pipeline is sourcing water from the Sea of Cortez, then you could run it both directions.  Have the pipeline empty into a receipt pond at the desalination facility and discharge spent brine into a separate brine pond.  When the receipt pond is full and contains a couple of days worth of sea water feed for the desalination plant, you switch the valve to the brine tank and let the brine tank drain back into the sea by gravity.

Alternatively, you could use ion exchange membranes to produce fresh water and concentrated brine.  If you are using a nuclear powerplant to generate power, then why not use waste heat to evaporate the concentrated brine coming out of the ion exchange filters? The brine would flow down a long trench, covered by a high pitch glass roof.  Plastic water pipes under the concrete lined trench would deliver heat.  A fan would blow air down the trench causing surface evaporation, which will then condense on the glass roof and run down the roof to ditches running parallel to the trench.  Salt would collect at the bottom of the trench and could be shovelled out.
<snip>

With this post, I am hoping to enlist a bit of your time to think about brine.

In my post, which you quoted, I very explicitly stated there was to be no brine.

In your post, which I greatly value, I noticed that you had overlooked my specification of no brine, and instead reviewed some of the current thinking about desalination, all of which yields brine.

But the government of Mexico, let alone the ** people ** of Mexico do NOT want brine delivered into the Gulf of California / Sea of Cortez.

I very explicitly stated that NO brine was to be returned to the people of Mexico, or to any other location.

Arizona does NOT need a Great Salt Flat such as are found in many locations on Earth, where Nature has deposited vast quantities of salt.

Instead, we are using a power source that is 1,000,000 more effective than chemical fuels (at a minimum).

We have energy literally to burn!  Why are we still thinking as though we were limited in energy, when it is potentially so abundant.

(th)

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#53 2021-11-30 19:08:36

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 26,761

Re: Desalinating water

https://astrobites.org/2020/10/08/the-b … your-life/

Mars can sustain temperatures above 255 K or water activity above 0.6 near the freezing point of the brine, but not both. Any brine that had both a high water activity and high temperature would evaporate quickly because of the low water vapor pressure on Mars.

phases.gif

The 'triple point' is the combination of pressure (6.1 millibars) and temperature (0.01 °C) at which water can exist simultaneously in all three states: a solid, a liquid and a gas (see the 'phase diagram' below).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7191838/

The triple point of water under this condition is shifted to 269 K with a saturation solubility of 14.4 mass % of the salt.

https://www.phoenix.gov/waterservices/r … supply-q-a

More than 90 percent of our water supply is surface water that originates as snow in the mountains north and east of Phoenix. As the snow melts, it flows into reservoirs on the Colorado, Salt and Verde Rivers where it is stored for future release to our water treatment plants.

NWQP-Arizona-streamsites_0.jpg

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#54 2021-12-01 04:06:50

Calliban
Member
From: Northern England, UK
Registered: 2019-08-18
Posts: 2,218

Re: Desalinating water

tahanson43206 wrote:

For Calliban re desalination of sea water ....

I am hoping you won't mind if I copy your post on this subject from the fuels topic ...

Calliban wrote:
tahanson43206 wrote:

For Calliban re #371

Thank you for your reply!  I am saving this post for a reply later today.  Chores are calling, but I wanted to let you know two things:

1) Thanks for your reply
2) The Phoenix Water initiative is NOT stalled, although the Social Engineering to bring it about is under furious revision as recipients are evaluated.

The Phoenix Water initiative is happening because of your sustained and consistent advocacy for nuclear fission to meet human needs of the present time.

The gent who's working the problem would not have been thinking about it if I had not contacted him, ** and ** if kbd512 had not provided so  much help with calculations that showed that the existing Palo Verde plant could supply all the fresh water that Phoenix needs, and have plenty of power left over to supply fresh water to much of Arizona, as well as a 10% share to Mexico for the kindness of allowing Arizona to sip water from the Sea of Cortez (Gulf of California).

I am holding steady to a vision of sizing the power plant sufficient to consume ** all ** the sea water, and NOT return a molecule to the Sea of Cortez.

A major (social) impediment has been the insistence of previous US originated designs to return vast quantities of brine to the Sea of Cortez.

If I am successful in helping the thought process along (and that is most definitely NOT guaranteed) then 10% of the water shipped North would be returned to Yuma as fresh water destined for distribution to Mexico via existing facilities, and NOTHING else would be returned.

The US side would have the benefit of all the Sodium, Chlorine, Magnesium and most importantly, Deuterium that would be removed from the input stream.

(th)

If the pipeline is sourcing water from the Sea of Cortez, then you could run it both directions.  Have the pipeline empty into a receipt pond at the desalination facility and discharge spent brine into a separate brine pond.  When the receipt pond is full and contains a couple of days worth of sea water feed for the desalination plant, you switch the valve to the brine tank and let the brine tank drain back into the sea by gravity.

Alternatively, you could use ion exchange membranes to produce fresh water and concentrated brine.  If you are using a nuclear powerplant to generate power, then why not use waste heat to evaporate the concentrated brine coming out of the ion exchange filters? The brine would flow down a long trench, covered by a high pitch glass roof.  Plastic water pipes under the concrete lined trench would deliver heat.  A fan would blow air down the trench causing surface evaporation, which will then condense on the glass roof and run down the roof to ditches running parallel to the trench.  Salt would collect at the bottom of the trench and could be shovelled out.
<snip>

With this post, I am hoping to enlist a bit of your time to think about brine.

In my post, which you quoted, I very explicitly stated there was to be no brine.

In your post, which I greatly value, I noticed that you had overlooked my specification of no brine, and instead reviewed some of the current thinking about desalination, all of which yields brine.

But the government of Mexico, let alone the ** people ** of Mexico do NOT want brine delivered into the Gulf of California / Sea of Cortez.

I very explicitly stated that NO brine was to be returned to the people of Mexico, or to any other location.

Arizona does NOT need a Great Salt Flat such as are found in many locations on Earth, where Nature has deposited vast quantities of salt.

Instead, we are using a power source that is 1,000,000 more effective than chemical fuels (at a minimum).

We have energy literally to burn!  Why are we still thinking as though we were limited in energy, when it is potentially so abundant.

(th)

Understood.  I would recommend a two stage process.  (1) Use ion exchange membranes to produce fresh water and brine from the input sea water.  (2) Use nuclear waste heat to reduce the brine to fresh water and solid salt, using sub-atmospheric boiling.

Another option would be to skip stage 2, dump the brine into a shallow pond and let the sun evaporate it.  Then you shovel out the salt from the pond edges.  Nuclear waste heat can be pumped through pipes under the pond.  That would assist evaporation.

Last edited by Calliban (2021-12-01 04:12:18)


"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."

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#55 2021-12-01 08:42:21

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 12,009

Re: Desalinating water

For Calliban re #54

Thanks for your helpful reply!  You are getting closer to what I am recommending to the gent in Arizona.

The competition is unable to think beyond traditional solutions, which is why I am hoping the Mars Society input may be helpful to "our" team.

I agree that traditional methods of desalination should be used for the first stage output.  Those methods are proven, the costs can be accurately estimated, and the skill set needed to set up and operate the facilities are known and available.

Where "our" team will (hopefully) pull ahead of the competition is by eliminating the brine flow back to Mexico.  That is a ** really big ** selling point, if we can figure out how to do it.

What we do NOT want to do is to scare the population with another set of harms.  It's going to be hard enough to sell the use of nuclear fission in the first place. A major benefit in working with this particular population is that they already have what is reported to be the largest reactor in the US.

For Stage 2, you have suggested creating (not the right word.... liberating) salt from the brine, so that additional fresh water is released for consumption.

However, if we stop there, we are left with tons and tons of salt, for which the market would be quite limited, since salt is available from many existing sources already.  The customer (ie, the population where the plant would be sited) is ** not ** going to enthuse about allocation of their land (agricultural or recreational) for permanent storage of salt.

In trying to solve this social problem, I am enlisting the considerable support of knowing that atomic energy is abundant, and Nature has generously provided for a solution.  Because atomic power is (on the order of at least) 1,000,000 times more productive than chemical power, I would propose to make Sodium and Chlorine for the US and potential international market.

In offering this option to the customer, I would be proposing to translate abundant atomic energy into high value (high embedded energy) products that can ONLY be achieved on Earth today using chemical power.

There are costs associated with producing, storing and transporting pure Sodium and Chlorine in industrial quantities.

In the end, I am betting that the accountants who are trained to manage flows of material on this scale will be able to find a price point for the delivered materials that is competitive with all other makers, and yet yields a return that flows to the investors at rates that are acceptable if not robust.

Fresh water itself must be priced according to its degree of refinement.  The first stage output is already satisfactory for agricultural use, and that is the bulk of the requirement for Arizona.  A higher grade of processing is needed to deliver potable water to Phoenix and eventually other cities, as well as the distributed population throughout the state.

However, I am proposing that the enterprise pay close attention to the market opportunities available by handling massive quanties of sea water.

There are a number of valuable materials suspended in sea water, and to the extent practical, all of those should be extracted and prepared for the market as refined elements or compounds.

Beyond all the above, there is a potential treasure trove of Deuterium to be extracted, in anticipation of the arrival of fusion power in near decades. Deuterium is worth holding in storage tanks.  It already has a market value, but when fusion systems come online, Deuterium will be a major component of fuel mixtures.

The fission power plants will be replaced with fusion ones at end-of-life (taking the long view)

Thanks again for your interest in and support of this line of thought.

(th)

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#56 2021-12-01 08:55:08

Calliban
Member
From: Northern England, UK
Registered: 2019-08-18
Posts: 2,218

Re: Desalinating water

Heavy water has a slightly higher boiling point than light water.  It is heavier, has a slightly lower average molecular speed at any temperature and hence needs to be slightly hotter to break its hydrogen bonds.  This would be the key to concentrating it.

On Mars, atmospheric pressure is much lower and water can more easily be made to boil at lower temperatures.  This may make it easier to enrich deuterium using low grade heat from a reactor.  An abundant supply of heavy water would allow the construction of heavy water reactors that can fission natural uranium mined on Mars.

Last edited by Calliban (2021-12-01 08:59:03)


"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."

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#57 2021-12-01 22:27:11

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 26,761

Re: Desalinating water

The big thing about water is that we get rain but we just send it off into the rivers rather than directing it to holding ponds. The same processes would still be used to aid in the clean up of that water from where its caught and redirected to these newly made ponds.

http://www.pepperridgenorthvalley.com/rainfall.php

https://www.weather.gov/psr/PRI

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#58 2021-12-31 10:45:35

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 12,009

Re: Desalinating water

This post should fit well into this topic:

https://www.inceptivemind.com/engineers … 8XXvgPQ_W8

The experimental new solar distiller incorporates a rectangular basin, inside of which is a horizontally oriented black steel cylinder. The basin is filled with undrinkable water, and the cylinder is slowly rotated by a solar-powered DC motor.

The rotating hollow cylinder inside the solar distiller accelerates water evaporation in the vessel by forming a thin film of water on the outer and inner surface of the cylinder, which is constantly renewed with each turn. As the film is so thin, the water film quickly evaporates due to the rapid transfer of heat from the surface of the cylinder to the adjacent water film. To increase the temperature of water under the cylinder, the engineers used a solar collector.

“The performance improvement factor of the created solar distiller, compared to traditional devices, was at least 280% in the relatively hot months (June, July, and August) and at least 300% and 400% in the cooler months (September and October), at the same time, the cumulative water distillation capacity reached 12.5 l/m2 per day in summer and 3.5 l/m2 per day in winter,” commented Alharbawi Naseer Tawfik Alwan, a research engineer at the Department of Nuclear Power Plants and Renewable Energy (UrFU).

The rotating drum method has been tested and results are encouraging.

It might even work at Mars, with a bit of mirror magnification of the solar flux.

(th)

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#59 2021-12-31 12:17:37

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 26,761

Re: Desalinating water

Novel device harvests drinking water from humidity around the clock

ETH-Zurich-condenser-696x392.jpg

ETH-Zurich-condenser-02-1024x576.jpg

The small pilot system with a pane diameter of 10 centimeters delivered 4.6 milliliters of water per day under real-world conditions. Researchers were able to show that, under ideal conditions, they could harvest up to 0.53 decilitres of water per square meter of pane surface per hour.

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/7/26/eabf3978
Exploiting radiative cooling for uninterrupted 24-hour water harvesting from the atmosphere

https://ethz.ch/en/news-and-events/eth- … idity.html

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#60 2021-12-31 14:12:13

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 12,009

Re: Desalinating water

For SpaceNut re #59

Another great find!

SearchTerm:Cooling radiative - used to capture fresh water floating in air after natural desalination by Solar activity
SearchTerm:Water captured from air as fresh water after natural de-salination

(th)

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#61 2021-12-31 14:43:02

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 12,009

Re: Desalinating water

For SpaceNut re this topic ...

I just re-read this topic from the top...

There were interesting contributions (to me for sure) by Terraformer, Calliban, Void, SpaceNut and Elderflower (and probably others).

One discussion that I enjoyed re-reading was the one about the contaminated water in your property, and the MIT plan for solar distillation of fresh water from undrinkable water.

Very recently, we have addition to the topic of the rotating drum idea, invented (I gather) in Australia and tested in Russia with success.

I understand you have chosen not to invest in a solar water cleansing process at your home at this time.

The last time we discussed this, you contributed the surprising idea of adding salt to the water from your well to keep it from freezing in winter.

After the time that has passed since we last discussed this idea, I've had time to realize that the salt you proposed adding to the pool in the evaporation chamber would not have to be increased after the initial charge is made, because fresh ground water will be added as the fresh evaporated water is drawn off.

Is it possible you could make a test installation for a few hundred dollars?  Could you earn income from the investment by writing up an article for a commercial publication?  The amount of water you collect each day might be a few cups, but each such cup would surely be greatly valued and appreciated by the household, as a demonstration of your ingenuity and persistence in making the system work.

(th)

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#62 2021-12-31 15:27:22

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 26,761

Re: Desalinating water

image1.jpeg

I will actually need something more inclusive to storage and more to make this plausible for the well that has high iron and other mineral conditions but have gotten some more ideas going for the least cost to do so.

https://solarcooking.fandom.com/wiki/Water_distillation

https://www.sunoven.com/home-grown-food … er-health/

What this is is solar concentrating to cause the water to evaporate but in the same token if I can get power from steam I also get the drinking water at the same time.

The standard parabolic reflector for cooking that could be modified 1.5m Diameter Parabolic Focal Spot Temperature:700-1000°C 1800 w priced at $160 can be had from several vendors. Would definitely want to give a clock to shade the reflector when working around the focus point.

Something like this requires sensing of the temperature to cause flow of the or a float like device to cause the water to flow into replace the amounts that are turned to vapor or steam depending on how hot one wants it to get.

The well can act to cool the water after it evaporates
image28.png


I can only spend the money once so I need a full end to end design to build.

Here is another design
image7.png

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#63 2021-12-31 19:07:50

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 26,761

Re: Desalinating water

Distilling and reverse-osmosis filtering are the two best methods for purifying water.

But reverse-osmosis filtration wastes water: For every gallon of purified drinking water produced, the process consumes 2 to 4 gallons of water. In contrast, solar distillation wastes no water and is powered by the sun. instead of removing specific contaminants, as filtration systems are designed to do, solar distillation purifies water by removing only one thing: water.

Electric distillers, which consume about 3 kilowatt hours per gallon of water, will yield good water, albeit energy-intensive and more expensive, at about 30 cents per gallon.

About $400 will buy a small solar distiller that will produce 2 to 6 quarts of drinking water per day, depending on weather conditions. A larger solar distiller, selling for about $800, will produce up to 2 gallons per day, or 770 gallons per year

Solar Distiller Sources Solar Distiller Dealers

Agua del Sol Safford, AZ www.aguadelsol.com
Products: ADS Flat Distiller; TSS Leaner Distiller.

DMD Products Longmont, CO
Products: Solar distiller subsystem components (pumps, solenoid valves, filters).

Gaiam Real Goods Broomfield, CO www.realgoods.com
Products: Sunwater Solar Distiller.

SolAqua El Paso,TX www.solaqua.com
Products: Rainmaker 550 single-basin distiller, SoAqua DlY Solar Distiller Kit.

Sunwater Solar Joseph City, AZ atman @ cybertrails.com
Products: Sunwater 5-L and 8-L solar distillers; Also sold through Gaiam Real Goods.
Solar Distiller Plans

El Paso Solar Energy Association
El Paso, Texas www.epsea.org/stills.html

Pure Water Nature’s Way by Dennis Lemon
DMD Products Longmont, CO

Solar Still by W.R. Breslin
Volunteers In Technical Assistance Arlington, VA www.vita.org

Electric Distiller Dealers
Durastill Export, Inc. www.durastill.com
Glacier Water Systems distilled-water.com
Polar Bear Water Group Limited www.polarbearwater.com
Precision Water www.precisionwater.com
Waterwise www.waterwise.com
West Bend Co. www.westbend.com/water/product.html

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#64 2022-01-01 07:27:25

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 12,009

Re: Desalinating water

For SpaceNut re topic ...

It is good to see your continued support of this topic, and addition of new (or renewed) links to resources!

This topic is well suited for experiment by NewMars members, because the cost of a home solar water distiller is within reach of the average person.

While by definition, the members of NewMars forum are NOT average, it is possible that some may have the resources to build working solar water distillers and more importantly, to report their results.

Those members who are fortunate enough to have a working well, or who have actual running water on the property, are best situated to carry out real-world experiments, but even members who only have access to utility water can still set up the experiment because the utility water works the same way as ground water.

For those who live in northern latitudes they could try SpaceNut's suggestion of adding salt to the the supply pan, because the salt is only added once, and remains behind as water is evaporated by solar energy.

This topic could even become a repository of building plans for various configurations of equipment, as well as a storage location for results.

This forum has spent over 20 years discussing possible actions that might be taken.  We have an opportunity to begin actual work on (or leading to) the Mars settlement project.

(th)

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#65 2022-01-01 09:49:09

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 26,761

Re: Desalinating water

The quantity of water processed is based on whr of the absorbed energy which is applied to the quantity of water in the unit. The amount processed is also depended on what quantity is available for the process in the first place.

Southern areas of the US are in the isolation zones where solar is best get close to 6hrs and in the north we are closer to 2.5hrs so the reflecting or concentrating of solar will be a factor of 3 time greater to get the same input energy over the shorter time span.

This factor of 3 can be in size of a single unit or by making 3 of them to combine for through put.
By the way this is the issue for mars to start with since we are dropping from the 1100 w/m to just 430 w/m average and that is why solar is so hard to design.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/ea … insolation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_irradiance

1280px-World_DNI_Solar-resource-map_GlobalSolarAtlas_World-Bank-Esmap-Solargis.png

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#66 2022-01-02 18:15:21

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 26,761

Re: Desalinating water

Something that we need is the "single person daily water use" to make a base design from.

https://www.usgs.gov/special-topics/wat … e-each-day

Estimates vary, but, on average, each person uses about 80-100 gallons of water per day, for indoor home uses. Are you surprised that the largest use of household water is to flush the toilet, and after that, to take showers and baths?

https://www.epa.gov/watersense/how-we-use-water

ws-water-use-and-pop-growth.png?VersionId=A9nDkECdkyriZmhOSqSfg15ace0.8__N&itok=wDQkWeeh

The average family uses more than 300 gallons of water per day

The report found the following breakdown of average daily household water usage.

    Toilet - 24%
    Shower - 20%
    Faucet - 19%
    Washing Machine - 17%
    Water Leakage - 12%
    Other - 8%

With 12% of our daily water usage coming from leaks, that might actually be a spill worth crying over.

Average water usage per person per day

According to the EPA, here are how many gallons the average American uses in each room, per day:

    Toilet – 18.5 gallons per person, per day
    Washing Machine – 15 gallons per person, per day
    Shower – 11.6 gallons per person, per day
    Faucet – 10.9 gallons per person, per day
    Dishwasher – 1 gallon per person, per day

https://water.phila.gov/pool/files/home … se-ig5.pdf

https://www.watercalculator.org/footpri … e-at-home/

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#67 2022-05-13 18:58:47

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 26,761

Re: Desalinating water

bump

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#68 2022-05-18 19:28:33

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 26,761

Re: Desalinating water

Can we pump ocean water to the Great Salt Lake? Utah lawmakers will study that idea

Pipelines are run all over the US for a variety of products so why not sea water.

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#69 2022-05-18 20:34:14

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 12,009

Re: Desalinating water

For SpaceNut re #68

Thanks for posting that link to the Great Salt Lake story!

The lake is reported to be 4,206 feet above sea level.

They'd have to secure access rights over Nevada and California.

They'd have to secure rights to sea water from Californians.

Just a few days ago, citizens of California rejected a proposal to build a desalination plant on the shore near San Diego.

Perhaps the citizens of California North of San Francisco would be more accepting of a syphon pulling water from their coastline.

I have to admit, I'd be surprised.

Perhaps Utah would have better luck asking for right of way through idaho and Oregon.

The Salton Sea (as you know from posts by Void and others) is a candidate for a flow of sea water, but ** it ** is ** below ** sea level.

The State of Utah would need to pump water 4,200 feet up and (on the order of) 700 miles

The ** really ** need water, so it is possible they'll find a way to do this project.

A side benefit is that they could set up a desalination plant on their own turf, and avoid the California objections.

(th)

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#70 2022-05-19 20:08:24

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 26,761

Re: Desalinating water

With places picked along the pipeline for many plants to process the water you also reduce power required to also be drawn from more locations and not just at one location of high usage. In the end you can have more small lakes or ponds with this sea water be held along the way.

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#71 2022-05-27 04:59:54

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 12,009

Re: Desalinating water

I ** think ** this might be a way to harvest potable water from warmed sea water .... it might also work for the cloud harvester drone!

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/inc … 00537.html

Incredible new gel film transforms air into drinking water
Joshua Hawkins
Wed, May 25, 2022, 6:00 PM

Researchers at the University of Texas at Austin have created a water harvesting gel capable of pulling buckets of water out of thin air. What makes this gel so intriguing, and possibly revolutionary, is its low cost and easy creation process.


This new water harvesting gel can literally pull water from thin air

How it looks from the side

The water harvesting gel is so cheap to make thanks to its two primary ingredients. The first, cellulose, comes from the cell walls of plants. As such, it’s widely available and easy to obtain. The second ingredient, konjac gum, is a food additive that is widely used throughout the world.

The two ingredients combine together to make the gel film that is responsible for absorbing water from the air. Once absorbed, too, the gel can easily release it without requiring much energy to do so. But how does it work?

According to the paper the researchers published in Nature Communications, the porous structure of the gun attracts the water in the air around it. It then condenses inside the gel, storing it. To release it, though, all you need to do is apply gentle heat to the cellulose. When met with gentle heat, the cellulose turns hydrophobic and releases the captured water. This allows the water harvesting gel to do its job.

During tests, the water harvesting gel was able to absorb 13 liters (3.4 gallons) of water per day in an area with a humidity of 30 percent. Even when the humidity dropped to 15 percent, the gel produced more than 6 liters (1.6 gallons) a day. The researchers also believe they can improve the efficiency of the gel, which would make it able to absorb even more water from the air around it.

Making the gel
how researchers made water harvesting gel

How it works is impressive. But the most impressive thing about this cheap water harvesting gel, is that it’s easy to make, too.

The researchers say that all you need to do to make the gel is mix the basic ingredients together. Once mixed, you pour the ingredients into a mold and it has to set for two minutes. From there, they freeze-dried the product and peeled it out of the mold.

At that point, the gel is ready to get to work. Plus, you can scale it easily and shape it any way you want.

We’ve seen similar water harvesters that draw water from the air in the past. But, because it’s so easily producible at a low cost, this water harvesting gel could be a revolutionary way to address the water scarcity plaguing our planet.

Click here to read the full article.

See the original version of this article on BGR.com

Here's a link to the full article: https://bgr.com/science/incredible-new- … ing-water/

(th)

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#72 2022-05-27 13:53:17

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 26,761

Re: Desalinating water

The temperature range of operation is above freezing but needs to be heated above 140'C to get the water to release... That seems to be quite hot all in all.

Posted also by

Mars_B4_Moon wrote:

How to recycle water?

Super-Absorbent Gel Pulls Fresh Water Out of Thin Air

The gel material is cheap to make, and a single kilogram can produce liters of water in seemingly dry conditions.
https://gizmodo.com/absorbent-gel-pulls … 1848975857

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#73 2022-06-02 18:36:49

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: Desalinating water

MIT invents $4 solar desalination device

https://www.freethink.com/technology/solar-desalination

Lost at sea? This desalination unit fits in a suitcase

https://thenewdaily.com.au/life/tech/20 … -suitcase/

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#74 2022-06-02 18:43:26

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 12,009

Re: Desalinating water

For Mars_B4_Moon re #73

Thanks for the MIT research report!

For SpaceNut ... I wonder if that design would work for your water?  You don't have salt, but you do have lots of other minerals.

The experiment would not cost much, according to the article.

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#75 2022-11-21 17:30:27

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 26,761

Re: Desalinating water

Here is a New desalination plant points towards Morocco's drought response

That early assessment of the plant's effectiveness comes as the government plans a further 12 desalination facilities, part of an expected investment in water projects of $12 billion in 2020-2027.

The new plants, which will be added to nine smaller ones already operating, are supposed to open by 2035, the state water and electricity utility ONEE said in an email.

Morocco now relies on surface and underground water for nearly all its freshwater consumption, using mostly a network of 149 large dams.

Five consecutive years of drought have left many of these reservoirs depleted and Agriculture Minister Mohammed Sadiki last week told parliament most water would be diverted from irrigation to supply drinking water.

Rainfall is often the single biggest factor in determining Moroccan economic growth rates and this year, the cereals harvest was two-thirds smaller than in 2021 and milk output down by 30%.

The 12 new desalination plants already planned or under way should reduce reliance on surface and groundwater to 80% from 97% by 2035 with a daily output of 1.3 million cubic meters, ONEE said.

The most important one -- to supply Morocco's biggest city Casablanca -- is due to start construction next year and come on stream in 2026.

However, Morocco relies for most of its power production on imported fossil fuels whose surging costs have added to the trade deficit.

Energy represents 45% of the total cost of desalination, ONEE head Abderrahim El Hafidi said.

Morocco wants to expand renewables as a share of its total power output to 52% by 2030 from 20% now to reduce dependence on imports and lower electricity costs.

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