Weather Watching

Stu · 2003-12-31 08:34:24

The Brocken Spectre

Just reminded me of the opening of GREEN MARS, one of my very favourite passages in the whole trilogy, when the young martians are taken out onto the polar ice cap by Coyote and they see "Glories" around their own silhouettes on the ice. Anyone else remember that? Absolutely beautiful writing.

Stu

Palomar · 2003-12-31 09:13:46

The Brocken Spectre
Just reminded me of the opening of GREEN MARS, one of my very favourite passages in the whole trilogy, when the young martians are taken out onto the polar ice cap by Coyote and they see "Glories" around their own silhouettes on the ice. Anyone else remember that? Absolutely beautiful writing.
Stu

*Stu: I have a confession to make.

I am a heretic.

I've never read any of Kim Stanley Robinson's works. In fact, I'd never even heard of him until I joined the Mars Society.

Based on what comments I've seen many others make of his works, much of it seems to be brilliant; he has garnered lots of rave reviews around here. But apparently we also have him to thank (at least in part...most references to such ideas are credited as originating with/being "inspired" by his stories) for some people going nutty with "playing marbles with the solar system," i.e. "Mars doesn't have a moon like Earth does and we never see the backside of our moon anyway, so why not blow it up into even halves and push the darkside of the moon faceward towards Mars, so it too can have a real moon..." etc. And now I've probably given somebody an idea...(moan)...but perhaps that idea has already been put down in print somewhere! :laugh:

Perhaps I should start a "NonRobinson Readers (But Love Mars Anyway) Anonymous" support group. :;):

I mostly read non-fiction.

--Cindy

Stu · 2003-12-31 09:25:48

*Stu: I have a confession to make.
I am a heretic.
I've never read any of Kim Stanley Robinson's works. In fact, I'd never even heard of him until I joined the Mars Society.
Based on what comments I've seen many others make of his works, much of it seems to be brilliant; he has garnered lots of rave reviews around here.

Aw, that's okay, I'm sure there are quite a few people in the group who haven't read The Trilogy. You are missing out on some amazing writing tho - some of Stan's imagery (even the images of a terraformed Mars... boooo!!!!) is just spellbinding... gems like watching a polar bear stalking a colonist on the ice; thousands of settlers gathered on the summit of Olympus Mons to watch a comet deliberately crashed into the atmosphere to thicken it, after which, for the first time, the stars twinkled; the enormous space elevator falling to Mars after being severed, wrapping itself around the equator; the view from the floor of Marineris... I could go on and on, honestly. He's the guy who made Mars "real" for me, I have to say. It's no exaggeration to say that reading RED MARS changed my life.

I live in hope that when/if I ever get some of my Mars fiction published it would affect its readers in the same way, but I seriously doubt it!

Stu

Shaun Barrett · 2004-01-01 05:22:57

Oops!
I have read the KSR trilogy and so I should remember that opening section of Green Mars ... but I don't!
But still, as and when I read 'em again I'll have a better understanding of what I'm reading when I get to that part.
Thanks guys!
Your old friend and Alzheimer's victim, Shaun!

Palomar · 2004-01-13 06:50:44

[=http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap040112.html]Something mighty peculiar

*I have never seen this phenomenon before, and don't recall ever having seen a photo of it before either. Very striking and beautiful.

--Cindy

Byron · 2004-01-13 06:55:17

[http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap040112.html]Something mighty peculiar
*I have never seen this phenomenon before, and don't recall ever having seen a photo of it before either. Very striking and beautiful.
--Cindy

That is really cool! Wish I could spot something like this.

I have seen virga (falling rain or snow that doesn't reach the ground) plenty of times though...it's pretty common here in Florida. I've even seen it raining out of a blue sky, as the clouds that produced the shower in the first place dissipated before the rain made it to the ground. That was an interesting thing to see...

B

Palomar · 2004-01-13 09:03:25

I've even seen it raining out of a blue sky, as the clouds that produced the shower in the first place dissipated before the rain made it to the ground. That was an interesting thing to see..

*My father mentioned he'd seen the same, while stationed in Korea during the war. He was so impressed by that; of course, coming from the cloud-loaded Midwest, it must have been a sight to behold. I've never witnessed such a rain.

Virga photos:

[http://www.noaa.gov/questions/question_081701.html]http://www.noaa.gov/questions/question_081701.html

--Cindy

Palomar · 2004-01-15 08:59:07

[=http://www.space.com/imageoftheday/image_of_day_040115.html]Fascinating

*Gravity waves in clouds. Wild.

--Cindy

Byron · 2004-01-16 07:40:35

Any of you watching the news of the polar outbreak of cold in the Northeastern U.S.? Minus 30 degrees windchill in Boston this morning...wow! I wonder what that kind of cold feels like...

Of course, I *never* want to see winter come to an end...down here in FL, we're having the best weather imaginable With low's in the 50's, I'm getting the best sleep in months, and these golden Indian-summer afternoons...ahhh. Talk about livin' in paradise! I'll be sure and cherish these precious memories of January come July...lol.

I ask Old Man Winter....please, please don't go away...at least not anytime soon!

B

Palomar · 2004-01-16 08:10:58

Any of you watching the news of the polar outbreak of cold in the Northeastern U.S.? Minus 30 degrees windchill in Boston this morning...wow! I wonder what that kind of cold feels like...

*Well, I suppose you could catch a plane to Boston and find out; I doubt their morning temps tomorrow will be in the 40s (windchill or otherwise).

I've felt cold like that, growing up in the northern section of the Midwest. There's one word for it: Brutal.

Bill White posted this in Free Chat yesterday (he also included a link in his post, not reproduced here):

"ITHACA, N.Y. -- During the most recent early afternoon on Mars, the temperature at the rover Spirit landing site in Gusev crater was an admittedly chilly minus 11 degrees Celsius (12 degrees Fahrenheit). But it was still warmer than most cities in the upper Northeast, gripped in a frigid winter chill."

As for the weather in my area: Cool, overcast, with occasional rain. We need it; this area has been in rather bad drought conditions for nearly 3 years now.

--Cindy

Byron · 2004-01-16 08:28:08

*Well, I suppose you could catch a plane to Boston and find out; I doubt their morning temps tomorrow will be in the 40s (windchill or otherwise).

And I can do it for cheap, too, as JetBlue is offering a $69 special to B-town at this time...lol. I bet they have a lot of smiling faces on the southbound leg, and a lot of sour expressions going north on that route...lol.

This brings to mind an interview with KSR, discussing his field trip to Antarctica in the process of performing research for his novel "Antarctica", which was written after the Mars trilogy. He mentioned that this type of intense cold really has to be *experienced* to have an idea of what it's really like, and he regretted not going there before penning the "...Mars" novels...although I think he did a fine job of describing the intense cold experienced by the early Martian settlers.

But man, it never ceases to amaze me that it can be so cold in one area of the country and it being so warm in another. If you sit down and think about it, Boston and FL really aren't that far apart from each other (compared to global distances.)

Interestingly enough, Mr. Bastardi (the greatest weather guru of all time, IMO) has a theory that the next 10-15 years will feature extreme swings in North American weather in response to long-term cyclical swings in the Pacific and elsewhere, and winters may actually be colder than normal in the years ahead. This is certainly good news to my ears down here in the hot zone...lol...

B

Palomar · 2004-01-19 20:07:12

*What's the largest hail stone anyone here has actually seen? For me, about 1/2 inch in diameter.

My husband and I were watching "Storm Stories" on the Weather Channel the other evening. Two guys in their mid-20s, storm chasers, got caught in a really nasty hail storm in Nebraska (last year). They decided to take a certain road in the hopes of getting away from what looked like the more dangerous area of a storm...and drove right into the patch of this horrific hail storm. The guy in the passenger's seat had his hand-held video camera rolling as baseball-sized hail stones began pounding down; the car's back windshield was soon smashed out and the front windshield sustained 3 direct hits; the passenger had to hold the windshield in place while the driver tried frantically to find shelter. They drove up to a farm house, which fortunately had a porch on it. The car they were in was small, so there was no chance of them hunkering down on the floorboards. They got out the car and ran for the porch, being bruised by the hail stones of course -- crying out in pain, etc. They both made it onto the solid-roofed porch safely (thank goodness...imagine what would have happened if one had been knocked unconscious and on the ground). Another stroke of luck: The farm house was unlocked, and they ran to the basement (four tornados in the area).

I've heard of grapefruit-sized hail stones. That is simply unimaginable!!

My husband once stayed out in the yard when it began hailing (pea-sized)...I yelled for him to get under the carport; he finally did when one hit his head, tearing his skin and causing bleeding. Our dog had run out into the yard with him (I thought animals had better sense than us most of the time!); I'd never seen a dog move like that -- jumping back and forth from front paws to back paws like a teeter-totter, then he began jumping around in circles rump-first until finally flattening his ears against his head and running like crazy for the carport. Ay carrumba!

--Cindy

Byron · 2004-01-20 06:20:11

Some of those "Storm Stories" are pretty exciting, huh?

I've seen a few hailstorms in my lifetime...I would say the largest hailstone I've seen is about an inch in diameter, while driving through West Palm Beach. But the biggest hailstorm, of which I was on the edge of, was a massive super-cell thunderstorm in Orlando, in March of '92. Just a few miles north of where I lived at the time, a blizzard of golfball-sized hail hit a rather large area of northwestern Orlando, causing millions of $$ damage. The hail accumulated over a foot deep in spots, and it literally ruined 1000's of roofs and cars.

Some time afterwards, I drove through some of the worst-hit neighborhoods...where a majority of the houses had tarps over their damaged roofs, and cars looking as if they had been beaten up with ballpeen hammers. But what really got to me was the lack of anything green. It was if I was up north in the middle of winter...there wasn't a leaf on the trees! It was an eerie thing to see...it must have taken a LOT of hail to completely defoliate all the trees, bushes, etc. Definately not a storm you'd want to be caught outside in...

B

Palomar · 2004-01-22 09:03:44

Some of those "Storm Stories" are pretty exciting, huh?

*I'll say. I watch "Storm Stories" whenever I get a chance. Come to think of it, I'm surprised "weather" isn't lumped in with death and taxes as unavoidable certainties.

[http://www.tornadoproject.com/]Tornado Project Online

I'm going to have fun ransacking this web site.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2004-01-22 09:33:19

Some of those "Storm Stories" are pretty exciting, huh?
*I'll say. I watch "Storm Stories" whenever I get a chance. Come to think of it, I'm surprised "weather" isn't lumped in with death and taxes as unavoidable certainties.
[http://www.tornadoproject.com/]Tornado Project Online
I'm going to have fun ransacking this web site.
--Cindy

[http://www.jimreedphoto.com/]Whoa Nellie!

*Professional photography site of Mr. Jim Reed; severe and unusual pics. Really amazing, gorgeous photos; his site is linked through Tornado Project Online.

That huge cloud in his "Supercell at Twilight" pic looks a bit to me like a skull (yipes).

And check out the car and the massive tornado ahead of it! Scary.

--Cindy

Byron · 2004-01-22 10:21:14

Hey, did you notice the advertisment for the upcoming movie "The Day After Tomorrow"?

I found a trailer of that movie, and I tell you what, it looks to be an AWESOME movie...this is one film that's got my name written all over it...lol... My skin was totally covered with goosebumps when I watched the movie trailer...twice. Apparently, it's based on the book, "The Coming Global Superstorm", which I got from a bargain bin a while back. While it was a crappy book, I had the idea that it'd make a really cool movie....apparently Hollywood thought of the book in the same fashion! It's about this huge "superstorm" that wrecks havoc all over the planet (tornados in LA, tidal waves, city-destroying winds, etc), ending with NYC being covered in snow and ice...basically all the extreme weather you can think of...and then some...lol.

Oh boy, I can't wait until May 28th...hehe....

B

Palomar · 2004-01-22 10:29:34

Hey, did you notice the advertisment for the upcoming movie "The Day After Tomorrow"?
I found a trailer of that movie, and I tell you what, it looks to be an AWESOME movie...this is one film that's got my name written all over it...lol... My skin was totally covered with goosebumps when I watched the movie trailer...twice. Apparently, it's based on the book, "The Coming Global Superstorm", which I got from a bargain bin a while back. While it was a crappy book, I had the idea that it'd make a really cool movie....apparently Hollywood thought of the book in the same fashion! It's about this huge "superstorm" that wrecks havoc all over the planet (tornados in LA, tidal waves, city-destroying winds, etc), ending with NYC being covered in snow and ice...basically all the extreme weather you can think of...and then some...lol.
Oh boy, I can't wait until May 28th...hehe....
B

*Yeah, it's the first thing to show up when you click the link to Jim Reed's photographs through Tornado Project Online (but the ad for the movie doesn't show up if you visit his site directly). It does look very good, huh? I've already made a mental note to catch it when it comes to town; in the meantime I'll watch the trailer.

As for "The Coming Global Superstorm," I picked it up and looked through it when it first came out a few years ago...but I figured it was a bit too alarmist, and didn't buy it. Coincidentally, I came across that very same book just a few days ago, while searching for something else in the science section of Hastings.

--Cindy

::EDIT:: The movie Byron mentions:

[http://www.jimreedphoto.com/jrpportfolio4.htm]http://www.jimreedphoto.com/jrpportfolio4.htm

Byron · 2004-01-22 10:37:31

Here's the link to the movie trailer...(high-speed internet recommended): [http://www.apple.com/trailers/fox/dayaftertomorrow/]The Day After Tomorrow

B

Palomar · 2004-01-22 11:39:06

*What's the most striking cloud formation you've ever seen which looked like some familiar object?

Around 1980 I was "walking beans" with my family, back home in Iowa ("walking beans" means walking between rows of soy bean plants and whacking out weeds with a hoe). It was a warm, humid afternoon -- clouds were piling up; the very tight popcorn-kernel-looking type. To the west I noticed a cumulonimbus cloud a bit off by itself. I swear, its south-facing portion looked like the profile of an old farmer with a straw hat, curve of the shoulder, bumps which looked a bit like the outline of nose and chin, and where the mouth would be was a small outflow of cloud which my mind's eye associated with a pipe. Its north-facing portion looked like a smaller human figure -- the farmer's wife, standing back-to-back with him. Curves in the clouds suggested the slope of a shoulder, a bosom, a head. I wished then that I'd had a camera.

I *rarely* see specific shapes and forms in clouds, by the way; most of the time I don't even look for "associations," but simply enjoy their beauty "as-is."

Once, over a mountain range here in New Mexico, on a bright summer day around 1996, my husband and I noticed a billowing white cloud which looked like a pig.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2004-01-23 07:12:32

[=http://www.weatherpix.com]Weatherpix.com

*I found this yesterday, and was going through the Gallery when the bad news about Spirit broke. I'll post this now, as I don't want to forget.

Really splendid photos, information, etc. Might be a nice distraction for some here (meaning persons here who, unlike yours truly, aren't consistent weather enthusiasts), while we're in "limbo" waiting for Spirit's recovery and the landing of Opportunity very late tomorrow night.

--Cindy

Shaun Barrett · 2004-01-23 08:09:17

Hi guys!
I don't often post in this thread because I can never think of anything interesting to report. But hailstones ... ! I do know something about hailstones.
One hot sunny afternoon in Swan Hill, Victoria (Australia), I drove over to my parents' house to say hello while my wife went to the golf club just out of town with a bunch of her girlfriends for afternoon tea. Sue was the girls' driver, in her new car.

Anyhow, I'd parked our car in the drive and was talking to my parents on their front porch, when the conversation stopped. We could all hear something strange and we didn't know what it was. Could it be a train ... a low flying jet maybe? No, it was just a kind of a distant roaring sound and it was getting progressively louder.
After what seemed like several minutes, though it was probably much less than that, with all three of us exchanging puzzled looks, I saw something white fall on the front lawn. Before I had time to consciously think "hail", more and more of them started coming down and the roaring noise muffled my shout of "Holy s***!" as I bolted for the car!!
I don't think anyone has ever crossed 5 metres of ground, leapt into a car, started it, put it in first gear and lurched forward under a carport faster than I did that day!
Just as well I did, too. Hundreds of cars caught out in the open that day were badly dented all over and the repair bills would have been so high that many people without comprehensive insurance just drove around in multi-dented vehicles for years afterwards.

Meanwhile, on the way out to the golf club, my wife had commented to the girls on a massive, unusual, cloud with a strange colour to it, in an otherwise clear sky. Later, from inside the golf club, people noticed hail beginning to fall outside. Sue panicked and ran outside to save her new car but there was no shelter anywhere. As the hailstones became bigger and bigger, she just hit the accelerator and tried to drive away from the storm. That action probably only made the impacts worse because her windshield was destroyed.
When the freak storm passed and a distraught Sue returned to the clubhouse in her battered vehicle, my wife and her friends were picking up hailstones literally the size of tennis balls! In fact, many of them had jagged ice spikes sticking out of them which made them bigger still. If Sue had been a little slower getting to her car, it's unlikely she would have escaped very serious injury.

Quite a few people we knew still had samples of the massive hailstones from that storm in their freezers for a long time afterwards.

Palomar · 2004-01-23 13:44:28

Meanwhile, on the way out to the golf club, my wife had commented to the girls on a massive, unusual, cloud with a strange colour to it, in an otherwise clear sky. Later, from inside the golf club, people noticed hail beginning to fall outside. Sue panicked and ran outside to save her new car but there was no shelter anywhere. As the hailstones became bigger and bigger, she just hit the accelerator and tried to drive away from the storm. That action probably only made the impacts worse because her windshield was destroyed.
When the freak storm passed and a distraught Sue returned to the clubhouse in her battered vehicle, my wife and her friends were picking up hailstones literally the size of tennis balls! In fact, many of them had jagged ice spikes sticking out of them which made them bigger still. If Sue had been a little slower getting to her car, it's unlikely she would have escaped very serious injury.
Quite a few people we knew still had samples of the massive hailstones from that storm in their freezers for a long time afterwards.

*Shaun, what a story! My god. You mention an "unusual cloud with a strange color to it"...do you recall what color your wife said it was? I ask, because in the Midwest people sometimes report clouds suddenly taking on a "sickly greenish cast" just before a tornado strikes. Hail and tornados often go hand-in-hand in the Midwest of the US, which is why I ask in particular.

Well, I'm glad Sue is okay! But...my goodness, she could have gotten into a serious accident. But I understand sometimes we do things without stopping to think through first if it's really a good idea...I think it's incredibly fortunate she was able to drive her car back to the club even.

This is another good reason not to be out in the open when a storm is approaching, especially in rural areas (I know some people who will walk between farmsteads -- at least a mile apart, with no protection around -- for exercise), where hail has been frequent. You could literally get stoned to death. Not to mention lightning-strike menace.

<whew>

Hmmmm, that reminds me of a time when my family and I were driving to visit a lakeside resort, around 1979. A thunderstorm blew up on the way. Lightning and thunder all around, and then came a noise as if (I saw a picture in my mind's eye) thousands of solid steel rods had been dropped onto the roof of our car; an ear-splitting metallic crashing sound. I've never heard anything like it before or since. I wonder to this day, when I remember that, if our car was struck by lightning. I squinted and ducked down when it happened, it was so terrifying -- so I don't recall even a split-second flash. My father nearly lost control of the car, but he kept good enough control to prevent an accident (thank goodness).

--Cindy

Shaun Barrett · 2004-01-25 05:15:29

No Cindy, my wife doesn't remember that cloud looking green - more like different shades of dark steely grey. But it was the size and shape and singular nature of it that caught her attention.
I think I know what you mean, though, when you mention that 'sickly greenish cast'. I believe I've seen that in clouds just before particularly nasty storms.

[Almost like a 3 or 4 day old bruise that's starting to dissipate!]

Palomar · 2004-02-03 07:45:30

[=http://science.nasa.gov/spaceweather/aurora/gallery_01jan04.htm]Auroras Galore

*Mmmmmm, lots of lovely photos and even short video clips! I've only seen aurora phenomenon (aka "The Northern Lights") once in my life, IIRC. Nothing spectacular like in these images: Simply a misty patch of greeness which pulsed brighter then dimmer.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2004-02-20 09:00:10

[=http://science.nasa.gov/spaceweather/swpod2004/20feb04/Vaughan1.jpg]Mountain shadows are *triangular*; this pic from Hawaii

*Hey, here's something cool, courtesy the folks at spaceweather.com. Mountain shadows tend to be triangular in appearance, when projected in the sky. I live near mountains, but haven't seen such shadows from a high vantage point (I don't do a lot of mountain climbing -- understatement). I'm linking them instead of going the "Image" route because I think they are too big.

Here's another:

[http://www.sundog.clara.co.uk/atoptics/mtshad.htm]Shadow looks like Great Pyramid in Egypt

*The short paragraph at spaceweather.com has this to say about the phenomenon:

"'Surprisingly, mountain shadows are nearly always sharply triangular regardless of the actual mountain profile,' notes atmospheric optics expert Les Cowley. 'Unlike ordinary flat shadows cast on walls, mountain shadows are three dimensional-- huge tubes of unlit air tens to several hundred miles long. As seen from the mountain summit perspective effects make the tube walls appear to converge to a tiny point in the distance.'"

--Cindy

::EDIT:: Here's another one of Mauna Kea...:

[http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap031203.html]Hey...what's the Moon doing in there??

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