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#51 2005-08-17 06:57:01

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Heliopolis *2* - ...Sun, Solar Science Cont'd...

and hoping to avoid having their DNA roasted!

LOL.  smile

But they can't be sure exactly when such events will occur.

Yep; that's the dilemma.  Solar weather unpredictability.

-*-

Glad you brought this thread up.  I've got a new solar poster here in my home office.  It contains this item about our Sun:

"At its core, the Sun's temperature is approximately 15 million degrees Celsius (knew that).  A grain of sand this hot would cook a person 150 km away."  :shock:  Yipes.   

--Cindy


We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#52 2005-08-17 08:10:52

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
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Posts: 28,632

Re: Heliopolis *2* - ...Sun, Solar Science Cont'd...

In addition it seems also to have more NEON than it was also expected to have.

Since hydrogen be get helium and then to others leading up to NEON could this also indicate that the process of becoming the sun we know was very fast at first or is it just older than we think it is as well.

periodic table

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#53 2005-08-17 17:56:28

Shaun Barrett
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From: Cairns, Queensland, Australia
Registered: 2001-12-28
Posts: 2,843

Re: Heliopolis *2* - ...Sun, Solar Science Cont'd...

... A grain of sand this hot would cook a person 150 km away."

Is this true?
It doesn't seem possible to me, though I'm willing to be persuaded.  yikes


The word 'aerobics' came about when the gym instructors got together and said: If we're going to charge $10 an hour, we can't call it Jumping Up and Down.   - Rita Rudner

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#54 2005-08-18 05:04:00

Palomar
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From: USA
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Re: Heliopolis *2* - ...Sun, Solar Science Cont'd...

... A grain of sand this hot would cook a person 150 km away."

Is this true?
It doesn't seem possible to me, though I'm willing to be persuaded.  yikes

*Hi Shaun:  I found this online:

The Sun's core is an inner "ball" that extends from the center to about a quarter of the way to the surface and contains 60% of the Sun's mass. It's made of mostly hydrogen, some helium, and a tiny bit of heavier atoms like carbon, nitrogen, and oxygen. The core (and, indeed, the entire Sun) is neither a gas nor a liquid. It's an electrically conducting medium called a plasma.

The plasma core is hot — 27 million degrees F (15 million C). A grain of sand this hot would cook a person 90 miles (145 km) away. The core is also dense, even denser than the next outermost shell where the Sun radiates its energy. Even this outer shell is so dense that it takes 170 thousand years for each energy particle to zigzag its way from the core out to space.

Further reading: The Royal Observatory

There's a discrepancy as to distance:  My solar astronomy poster says 150 km distance; the article says 145.  Minor difference, but still there. 

That was from a USA Today online article penned by A. Holladay on April 2004.  I can't link to it (subscriber use only).

--Cindy  smile


We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#55 2005-08-23 13:17:47

Palomar
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From: USA
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Re: Heliopolis *2* - ...Sun, Solar Science Cont'd...

[color=#000080]SOHO nearing landmark

Should occur this summer:  #1000.  All this has been an unexpected benefit for the Solar and Heliospheric Observatory.

*This is one of those "overlap" situations I prefer to avoid.  It does pertain to SOHO, however, so have posted in this thread.  neutral 

SOHO's 1000th

It's cool that what was originally intended solely for solar science (SOHO) resulted in something unexpected (and plentifully at that).  smile

As for Sol itself...no dramatics lately.  Danged minimum.  sad

--Cindy


We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#56 2005-08-23 20:49:53

Shaun Barrett
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From: Cairns, Queensland, Australia
Registered: 2001-12-28
Posts: 2,843

Re: Heliopolis *2* - ...Sun, Solar Science Cont'd...

Thanks for the background info., Cindy.

There's a discrepancy as to distance: My solar astronomy poster says 150 km distance; the article says 145. Minor difference, but still there.

Hmmm. Well, I think I'll stay at least 200 km away from stray bits of the Sun's core .. just to be on the safe side!  big_smile


The word 'aerobics' came about when the gym instructors got together and said: If we're going to charge $10 an hour, we can't call it Jumping Up and Down.   - Rita Rudner

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#57 2005-08-24 05:10:07

Palomar
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From: USA
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Re: Heliopolis *2* - ...Sun, Solar Science Cont'd...

Thanks for the background info., Cindy.

There's a discrepancy as to distance: My solar astronomy poster says 150 km distance; the article says 145. Minor difference, but still there.

Hmmm. Well, I think I'll stay at least 200 km away from stray bits of the Sun's core .. just to be on the safe side!  big_smile

*Lol!  wink 

The dread Solar Minimum is here 

Dread because it means decreased activity and maybe less posts for this thread.  :cry:  Image comparison.  Better dig out that Solar Encyclopedia I've got. 

But there is a bit of activity on ol' Sol:

Golden Loops

Nice "backdrop" contrast.  The magnetic loops are emerging from Sunspot 798.  They'll persist for a few days more.  Photo by J. Stetson on August 23.  Host:  Spaceweather.com.

Sunspot count is hovering around the 50's range this past week.

--Cindy

P.S.:  Just now saw at spaceweather.com that there were two CME's yesterday:

798 exploded twice on August 22nd, hurling a pair of coronal mass ejections toward Earth.

Images of the CME's available for viewing at the web site.


We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#58 2005-09-08 05:34:41

Palomar
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Re: Heliopolis *2* - ...Sun, Solar Science Cont'd...

*Sunspot count has been very low in the past couple of days, hovering around the 12 range.  The far side of the Sun isn't active either, according to the holographic image (helioseismography).  Despite this, on Sept. 7 a major X17-class flare exploded from Sol's eastern limb.  Information is being hosted at spaceweather.com (today's date -- the site archives daily). 

False-color image:

SXI_20050907_181547259_BB_12_strip.gif

That's almost akin to a "diamond-ring effect" (ala eclipses).

The blast caused a complete blackout of HF radio transmissions on the daylit side of Earth.

Sunspot 798 is the culprit.  It's lingered on Sol for quite a while now. 

Spaceweather.com is also hosting links to an audio file of this recent flare:

LISTEN--RADIO BURSTS! In New Mexico, amateur astronomer Thomas Ashcraft recorded strong radio bursts during the flare: audio file. These slowly undulating signals, known as Type II radio bursts, are emitted by shocked gas at the leading edge of a coronal mass ejection (CME) racing away from the blast site. Use stereo headphones for best effect; the file plays 22.2 MHz in one ear, and 22.7 MHz in the other.

Again:  Spaceweather.com is archived daily; that information is for today's date.  Of course the archived information is easily retrieved at the site's main page (upper right-hand corner "View Archives" and date selector).

'Spot 798 also has "an impressive magnetic field."  Here's a photo of magnetic arches.  Nice.  smile  Pic by J. Newton of Canada.

--Cindy


We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#59 2005-09-10 05:03:59

Palomar
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Re: Heliopolis *2* - ...Sun, Solar Science Cont'd...

*Giant Sunspot 798 in the news still -- and likely for a while. 

Solar activity is very high. Earth-orbiting satelites have detected five X-class solar flares since Sept. 7th, including one X17-class monster-flare. NOAA forecasters say there's a 75% chance of more X-flares during the next 24 hours, possibly causing radio blackouts and radiation storms.

Rather nasty:

Kremer.jpg

This 'Spot has just recently emerged over Sol's eastern limb and will be facing in our direction for days to come.

Spaceweather.com is also currently hosting a photo from SOHO of a solar radiation storm (protons).  The image isn't liftable, unfortunately; spaceweather.com has been hosting the image the past 2 days.  The site archives daily though some features/images/etc. are carried over for a day or two.  That radiation storm (thanks to -- what else -- 'Spot 798 CME) is still bombarding Earth with protons flying past at near light-speed.

--Cindy


We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#60 2005-09-11 18:27:31

Palomar
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From: USA
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Re: Heliopolis *2* - ...Sun, Solar Science Cont'd...

Sol's "string of fury" continues...

*Seventh major flare -- including 2 yesterday.  'Spot 798 the culprit (again). 

Article (which includes images, including one of 'Spot 798) says there's a 75% chance of more X-class flares through Tuesday.  Wow.

'Spot 798 is, as mentioned above in previous post, already well over Sol's eastern limb and soon will be pointing directly at us:

And the likelihood of Earth taking one directly on the chin goes up with each passing day as the sunspot takes aim.

'Spot count is also up:  Aprox 6 days ago the count was 11 or 12, now it's nearly 60.  Hey Shaun those aren't blemishes, they're beauty markswink 

Lots of aurora phenomena as well -- as can be imagined.

--Cindy


We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#61 2005-09-12 11:25:19

Palomar
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Re: Heliopolis *2* - ...Sun, Solar Science Cont'd...

*'Spot count has jumped dramatically yet again.  I noted yesterday that last week it was hovering around 11 to 12.  Yesterday the count jumped to 59 -- and today it's 101.

Aurora Gallery

Some of those pics "thanks" to the X-17 class flare the other day.

This is fun.  big_smile

--Cindy


We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#62 2005-09-13 10:59:24

Palomar
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From: USA
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Re: Heliopolis *2* - ...Sun, Solar Science Cont'd...

*"Into the maelstrom" is right:

friedman.jpg

That was the caption for this photo of Sunspot 798 -- the cause of all the recent massive flares.  But it is beautiful.  Such a closeup and the area all around does look like fine golden feathers. 

Photo by A. Friedman on Sept. 11.

This being hosted by spaceweather.com, which is also hosting two additional features:

MOVIE: On Sept. 9th, Birgit Kremer of Marbella, Spain, caught sunspot 798 in the act of exploding--and he took 47 pictures of the X6-category flare. His friend Sabine Börsch combined all the photos to create a jaw-dropping movie.

SOUNDTRACK: The same flare produced strong radio bursts. Using a 22 MHz ham rig in New Mexico, Thomas Ashcraft recorded the sounds. These slowly undulating signals, known as Type II radio bursts, are emitted by shocked gas at the leading edge of a coronal mass ejection (CME) racing away from the blast site.

I'm not sure how long those options will be on spaceweather.com's homepage; it does archive daily but some items remain on the homepage for a few days.  I can't hyperlink to any of the options so you'll have to visit spaceweather.com yourself. 

The source of all this activity is giant sunspot 798, which has fired off seven X-class solar flares since Sept. 7th, including a record-setting X17-class monster. NOAA forecasters say there's a 60% chance of more X-flares during the next 24 hours

The Sunspot count has dropped down to 62 from 101 yesterday.


We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#63 2005-09-14 05:40:58

Palomar
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From: USA
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Re: Heliopolis *2* - ...Sun, Solar Science Cont'd...

*Here we go again:  Sunspot 798 has unleashed yet another coronal mass ejection -- yesterday, Sept. 13.  Spaceweather.com predicting a "severe geomagnetic storm" as a result, which might hit tonight or tomorrow. 

The rundown on 'Spot 798:

This remarkable 'spot has produced nine X-flares since Sept. 7th including a record-setting X17-monster.  All by itself, sunspot 798 has made Sept. 2005 the most active month on the sun since March 1991.

Wow. 

You can still listen to audio (radio bursts) hosted at spaceweather.com. 

They're predicting aurorae in places as far south as southern California, Arizona and Texas (hey -- what about New Mexico?  Sheesh) if the incoming CME does wallop our magnetic field as strongly as predicted.

SOHO movie of Sept. 13 CME

Sunspot count has bounced back up to 95.  Up, down...up, down...solar calisthenics, teehee.

--Cindy


We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#64 2005-09-14 06:53:18

Palomar
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From: USA
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Re: Heliopolis *2* - ...Sun, Solar Science Cont'd...

*The post above this one has more info about the continuing adventures of Sunspot 798....

-*-

Sol has a binary partner???

That'd be fabulous, if so.  And I'd want confirmation ASAP.  Discusses precession of the equinox in relation to this theory. 

While the findings in Lost Star are controversial, astronomers now agree that most stars are likely part of a binary or multiple star system. Dr. Richard A. Muller, professor of physics at UC Berkeley and research physicist at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, is an early proponent of a companion star to our sun; he prefers a 26 million year orbit period.

Hmmmmm. 

Sol is a variable star (little factoid dropped into this post).

Haven't we all naturally considered Sol as sol-itary?  Interesting to think it might actually be a double star.

--Cindy


We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#65 2005-09-15 13:57:13

Palomar
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From: USA
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Re: Heliopolis *2* - ...Sun, Solar Science Cont'd...

Solar minimum is looking more like a maximum

*Good article/summary on recent solar events.  The CME of 9/13 traveled past Earth around 4:00 a.m. Central Standard Time; its impact is reported as weak on our magnetic field...and so of course auroral activity is less than anticipated.

Current 'Spot count is 86. 

--Cindy


We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#66 2005-09-17 05:30:14

Palomar
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Re: Heliopolis *2* - ...Sun, Solar Science Cont'd...

"Light bridges" across 'Spot 798

*Nice.  smile  Photo taken Sept. 14 by J. Grenier of France.  Sunspot 798 currently Neptune-sized. 

The bright gash splitting this sunspot down the middle is called a "light bridge." The bridge, explains solar physicist David Hathaway, separates positive and negative magnetic polarities in the spot. It's a sign of explosiveness, because opposite polarities bumping together can spark solar flares.

9 X-class flares since Sept. 7.  Info and photo are hosted by spaceweather.com.

Another example of "light bridges" on Sol, from Astropix archives.  I posted it a long time ago in the 1st Heliopolis thread...bears a repeat, considering.  wink  Good info in the caption as always.

--Cindy


We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#67 2005-09-19 07:06:24

Palomar
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From: USA
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Re: Heliopolis *2* - ...Sun, Solar Science Cont'd...

Aftermath of 'Spot 798-induced CME's

*Aurora Australis.  Such a striking photo.  Caption repeats info previously posted.

--Cindy


We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#68 2005-09-20 09:17:18

Palomar
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From: USA
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Re: Heliopolis *2* - ...Sun, Solar Science Cont'd...

Adios, Sunspot 798

*It's been a doozy.  :shock:

Is currently disappearing over Sol's western limb and also dissolving.

By the time the sun's 27-day rotation swings it back around to face Earth, sunspot 798 should have dispersed.

There are no further chances of Earth-directed flares from the 'Spot.  Thanks for the excitement.  tongue

--Cindy

::EDIT::  The solar animation shows days of Sept. 7 through the 18th.


We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#69 2005-09-20 11:09:17

SpaceNut
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Re: Heliopolis *2* - ...Sun, Solar Science Cont'd...

This solar storm seems to be even be upsetting the Rosetta probes instruments.
Solar Flare Interacts with Rosetta

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#70 2005-09-22 04:14:53

Palomar
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From: USA
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Re: Heliopolis *2* - ...Sun, Solar Science Cont'd...

*Sunspot number has dropped to 19.  'Spot 798 is indeed gone -- not just over the eastern limb, but it's dissipated.  However, there is activity on Sol:

Quite a solar prominence

That's from A. Friedman of NY.

Another photo:

Color pic of prominence

From L. Alvarez of TX.  He captured the photo just an hour before sunset.

Two additional images were hosted on September 21 at spaceweather.com (is archived).  All info/photos courtesy spaceweather.com

--Cindy


We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#71 2005-09-24 13:16:21

Yang Liwei Rocket
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Registered: 2004-03-03
Posts: 993

Re: Heliopolis *2* - ...Sun, Solar Science Cont'd...

Two future missions


ESA's Solar Orbiter
http://www.esa.int/esaSC/SEMTWG1A6BD_index_0.html
The Solar Orbiter describes exactly what the spacecraft will do - it will orbit the Sun. 

NASA's STEREO (Solar TErrestrial RElations Observatory)
http://www.stereo.jhuapl.edu/mission/st … tatus.html
The NASA-sponsored STEREO (Solar TErrestrial RElations Observatory) project is currently in its integration and test phase at the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory (APL) in Laurel, Md., during which the twin observatories are being assembled and tested prior to launch.


'first steps are not for cheap, think about it...
did China build a great Wall in a day ?' ( Y L R newmars forum member )

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#72 2005-10-06 05:37:15

Palomar
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From: USA
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Re: Heliopolis *2* - ...Sun, Solar Science Cont'd...

New optics produce ultrasharp images of sunspot

*This involves the Dunn Solar Telescope at Sunspot, New Mexico (my husband and I visited that facility in January 2004).  The area seen in the photo spans 3 Earths. 

Optics and instrumentation aren't my strong suit (and this is a new advancement), so will copy and paste mostly.  Is *adaptive optics*:

revealing striking details inside sunspots and hint at features remaining to be discovered in solar activity.

AO76 advanced adaptive optics image correction system and a new high-resolution CCD camera.

This ultrasharp image of sunspot AR 10805 shows several objects of current scientific interest. G-band bright points, which indicate the presence of small-scale magnetic flux tubes, are seen near the sunspot and between several granules (columns of hot gas circulating upward).

The dark cores of penumbral fibrils and bright penumbral grains are seen as well in the sunspot penumbra (the fluted structures radiating outward from the spot). These features hold the key to understanding the magnetic structure of sunspots and can only be seen in ultra high-resolution images such as this one. Magnetism in solar activity is the "dark energy problem" being tackled in solar physics today

Photo was built up from a series of 80 images.  Very sharp.  smile

--Cindy


We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#73 2005-10-06 06:34:58

SpaceNut
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Posts: 28,632

Re: Heliopolis *2* - ...Sun, Solar Science Cont'd...

Amateur astronomers are getting more and more events captured all the time.
This being another case of why should space cost so much is also in the comparison of the tools used to capture the event.

NASA beaten at its own game by Narrabri man

A NARRABRI man has shown his flair for astronomy, beating the world's best scientists at their own game to record the biggest solar flare ever measured.
CSIRO software engineer and student astronomer David Brodrick recorded the image, the only recording successfully made of the flare.

Mr Brodrick made the observations with a $210 telescope kit bought from US space agency NASA.

And while the Radio Jove antenna kit consists of little more than a series of plastic poles with wire strung between them, it trumped billion dollar NASA satellites in recording the flare.

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#74 2005-10-06 21:49:45

Yang Liwei Rocket
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Registered: 2004-03-03
Posts: 993

Re: Heliopolis *2* - ...Sun, Solar Science Cont'd...

Ulysses is the first mission to study the environment of space above and below the poles of the Sun.
6 October 2005
http://www.esa.int/esaSC/SEMTNC5Y3EE_in … l#subhead2
At 15.4 kilometres per second, it became the fastest space probe ever, propelled by the Inertial Upper Stage and the Payload Assist Module (the spherical motor immediately below Ulysses). Ulysses is a joint ESA/NASA mission studying the interplanetary medium and solar wind in the inner heliosphere beyond the Sun's equator for the first time. Its high-inclination solar orbit took it over the Sun's south pole in 1994 and then the north pole in 1995. It made a second southern solar pass above 70° latitude during September 2000 to January 2001, and a similar northern pass during September to December 2001.


'first steps are not for cheap, think about it...
did China build a great Wall in a day ?' ( Y L R newmars forum member )

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#75 2005-10-07 07:01:44

Palomar
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From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Heliopolis *2* - ...Sun, Solar Science Cont'd...

Amateur astronomers are getting more and more events captured all the time.
This being another case of why should space cost so much is also in the comparison of the tools used to capture the event.

NASA beaten at its own game by Narrabri man

A NARRABRI man has shown his flair for astronomy, beating the world's best scientists at their own game to record the biggest solar flare ever measured.
CSIRO software engineer and student astronomer David Brodrick recorded the image, the only recording successfully made of the flare.

Mr Brodrick made the observations with a $210 telescope kit bought from US space agency NASA.

And while the Radio Jove antenna kit consists of little more than a series of plastic poles with wire strung between them, it trumped billion dollar NASA satellites in recording the flare.

*Teehee.  big_smile  Terrific! 

YL Rocket:  Yes, Ulysses has been a good probe.

--Cindy


We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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