A New Vision for Mars - Include Ordinary People and Their Kids

Scott G. Beach · 2004-01-07 18:11:04

Bill:

You asked, "why do you believe you will have any hope of persuading Catholics, secular humanists, Hindus, Buddhists, Rotarians, Unitarians and Rastafarians to unite under the banner of 'Phi?' What does 'Phi' offer that a thousand or ten thousand other 'empty until filled' placeholder symbols also offer?"

I believe that if Catholics, humanists, Hindus, et al, become aware of Phi then they will be astonished at how many places in our natural world they can find manifestations of Phi. Dr. Mario Livio is an astronomer and he works at the Space Telescope Science Institute. He wrote a book titled "The Golden Ratio: The Story of Phi, The World's Most Astonishing Number." I have read that book and I agree with his assertion that Phi is "astonishing." Take a look at Gary Meisner's web site about Phi -- http://www.GoldenNumber.net Gary has compiled many interesting and amazing Phi facts.

Compare Phi with the Big Bang hypothesis. Phi can be seen in our hands, in the plants in our gardens, in the foods we eat. In contrast, the Big Bang will never be directly experienced by anyone and some people will continue to reject that hypothesis (see "The Big Bang Never Happened," by Eric Lerner). We will never be able to go back to the beginning (assuming there was one) to see whether a God set this universe in motion by a Big Bang or by some other means. But Phi is here and now. We can experience Phi and we can give our children the opportunity to be amazed and inspired by Phi.

I cannot think of any other idea that has as much inspirational power as Phi. Can you?

You asked, "What if the Rastafarians decide they don't like the 'Phi' and want to slice off their slice?" When the members of a Hutterite colony become divided into irreconcilable groups then they plan to have an early branching. To facilitate that, they put more of their resources into building a daughter colony so that the disaffected groups can go their separate ways as soon as possible. I would recommend that Martian settlements adopt the same strategy.

Scott G. Beach · 2004-01-07 18:12:09

Clark:

You wrote, "Yet you admonished me for focusing on the 'legal rights and legal processes' of the society, and instead encouraged me to look at the 'family' aspect of this situation. I will endeavour to look at this anyway you want, but I think there are some 'holes' in this plan."

I agree that there is a "hole" in my plan in that I am NOT advocating a genetic engineering program to make humans physiologically adapted to living in groups of up to 15,000 people. Instead, I am advocating (1) neighborhoods of up to 150 people and (2) a City Council that elects a Chief of Police and several assistants.

We are physiologically adapted to living in groups of up to 150 people and I think that we should take advantage of that fact so that we can minimize the number of police and social workers and thereby minimize tax burdens.

You wrote, "The idea of 'Phi' as a non-denominational and non-ethnic idea/belief that can be used to bridge cultural and social differences is a good piece of the puzzle, I just don't think it should be the center-piece that holds the puzzle together." I agree. The centerpiece should be that children are trained to be good sociocultural systems engineers. For example, children should be taught that humans have vomeronasal organs and that humans secrete pheromones that regulate each others behavior. And in their civics classes, children should study bands, tribes, chiefdoms, and states and they should focus on the social control mechanisms that prevail in those different kinds of societies. That kind of education would prepare children to become members of a Martian settlement's governing body.

You wrote, "Might I suggest that instead of emphasizing Phi in a multi-cultural society, you emphasize mutual respect for the welfare of all individuals." Japanese society provides a good example of a society where the welfare of all individuals is respected. At a baseball game in Japan, the best outcome is an exciting game that ends in a tie score. Japanese urge competitors to do their personal best and eschew the idea of turning some competitors into winners and others into losers. This ideal stands in sharp contrast to the American proposition that "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."

You wrote, "Phi just seems to distract." Clark, try to imagine a rite of intensification in the City of NEW Euthenia (located somewhere on Mars). What kind of symbols would be embedded in the centerpieces on the holiday dinner tables? Symbols play an important part in such rites. If Phi is not embedded in those centerpieces then what symbols would be? I am open to suggestions. It should be something simple that children can make (e.g., by cutting colored paper into shapes and pasting the shapes together).

jadeheart · 2004-01-07 19:48:48

I cannot think of any other idea that has as much inspirational power as Phi. Can you?

I guess different people are inspired by different things. I find the prospect of human space exploration a bit more inspiring than a mathematical ratio. The underlying laws of the universe are rife with such things. While somewhat interesting and worthy of investigation, I can't see such things underpinning human cultures, especially ones where the average member has little mathematical ability (much less appreciation) beyond adding & subracting. The strongest force for binding together individuals within a society at the emotional level so far has been religion, and all of the great religions so far have been based on ideas that impact people's emotions-- fairness, equality, continued consciousness after death, etc. Not cold mathematics, no matter how ubiquitous.

Furthermore, why impose such things on the Martians? You simply supply them with a reason to despise Earth even sooner than they might normally. If history is any indicator, they will develop traditions and rites of their own over time that will serve to bind their communities. Any pre-existing 'principles of reverence' will just be seen as impediments (at best) or, worse, downright meddling. Since I'm not a sociologist I can't speak authoritatively on this, but it certainly seems to be the norm for newly-developing cultures to grow their own belief systems over time-- every human culture so far has done so. I don't see why Mars will be any different.

Oh, and there's that slight problem of all the OTHER pre-existing religions (with many, many more adherents and much more money and power) that will want to export themselves to the stars. These will be much larger factors in Martian society for the first several hundred years, after which they will probably have either been rejected or modified to fit the unique sociopsychological outlook of the Martians.

Scott G. Beach · 2004-01-07 20:20:17

jadeheart:

You wrote, "If my assumption that the purpose of the Phi concept would be to replace religion as a way of maintaining order and enlivening social cohesion is wrong then I apologize."

I have suggested that Phi should be a part of the curriculum of tax-supported schools in The City of Euthenia. The children of Euthenia would be taught that early scholars referred to Phi as the "Divine Proportion" because those scholars saw manifestations of Phi in nature and concluded that God had used Phi in the creation of the universe. Some children would probably choose to believe the same thing and would incorporate Phi into their own religious beliefs.

I believe that if the people of different religious faiths had Phi in common then the possibility of inter-religious rivalries would be diminished. I have previously pointed out that during the Philadelphia Riots of 1844 Protestants and Catholics beat each other to death in the streets of that city. They were fighting about what would and would not be included in the textbooks used in public schools. I don't want that kind of violence to erupt in Euthenia. I am therefore recommending that adult Euthenians agree, in advance, that children will be taught about Phi and will be encouraged to participate in a Phi-based aesthetic tradition (see examples of Phi-based folk art at http://www.geocities.com/scott956282743/museumindex.htm ).

In summary, I am NOT proposing that Phi should "replace religion." I am proposing that children be taught about Phi and I am predicting that some children will incorporate Phi into their religious beliefs. In that case, Phi could be regarded as a supplement to existing religions, not as a replacement for religion. To the extent that Euthenians incorporate Phi into their religious beliefs, I believe that the possibility of inter-religious violence will be reduced. This reduction is especially important in a place where 10,000 people from very different cultures are living together in small, man-made caverns.

Scott G. Beach · 2004-01-07 22:32:35

jadeheart:

You wrote, "The underlying laws of the universe are rife with such things." Phi is not just another number. It has unique mathematical properties AND its physical manifestations can be seen all around us in nature. After I read Dr. Livio's book about Phi I felt that I had been given a very important tool for understanding the universe.

You wrote, "The strongest force for binding together individuals within a society at the emotional level so far has been religion..." Religion has been referred to as a kind of "social glue" and I agree with that metaphor. The problem with most existing religions is that they are being undermined by science. Every time that a paleoanthropologist digs up the remains of one of our distant ancestors the creation stories of various religions become less believable. Phi could help to restore some of the sticking power of religion because children can see Phi in themselves and in their world. They can directly experience the truth of Phi.

You wrote, "Furthermore, why impose such things on the Martians?" I agree that it would be a mistake to "impose" a Phi-based curriculum or aesthetic tradition of Martians. The people who are selected to live in the experimental neighborhoods of The City of Euthenia should collectively decide how things will be done on Mars.

You should not characterize Phi as "cold mathematics." A child who has NO mathematical skills can appreciate the unique properties of Phi. For example, a teacher could give each of the children in a class a small, rectangular piece of paper that is one unit wide and Phi units long. Each child can be shown how to fold one corner of the paper diagonally to create a smaller rectangle that has the same proportions (one to Phi). Employing scissors, the smaller rectangle can be cut loose and then folded and cut again. Through this hands-on activity, children can see one of the many amazing properties of Phi.

You wrote, "and there's that slight problem of all the OTHER pre-existing religions." I again find that it is necessary for me to explain that I am not proposing that teachings about Phi be used as a replacement for "OTHER pre-existing religions." As I have previously written, a new Phi-based religion would be seen as a competitor and therefore as an enemy of existing religions, and that perception would impede the development of a sense of social solidarity in Euthenia. I believe that Phi can become a supplement to existing religions that, as such, it can promote social solidarity.

Rxke · 2004-01-08 06:07:46

Scott G. Beach...

i would be lying if i said the 'Phi-phenomenon' isn't interesting, but i'm afraid the way you promote it will come over as 'boring zealotry' to a lot of people.
While i agree it's 'apparentness' in nature, the universe et all is truly intriguing, it takes education (as you proposed) to truly appreciate it. And not everybody likes to be educated.

For instance, while i am intrigued about the similarities between nautilius shells, arms of galaxies and a simple formula, i get bored to tears by certain professors going on and on about the Golden Ratio in 1600's arts. Urg. I wish they'd just shut up. I get it already, and it's interesting, but don't waste my fun appreciating art with endlessly re-iterating that one thing, there's more to art than mathematics, but they ignore that in their enthousiasm... It gives me rebellious thoughts, really does. Hey, even worse: i've become mildly allergic to the mere mention of 'Golden yadda yadda yadda Ratio' Wish is a pity, because otherwise i'd probably would've delved deeper into it, one day or another. Now i get bored by it... (and that's not an 'objective' reaction)
You can show people something 'neat', and it they're really interested they'll come back to you for more, but don't overdo it. That works against you. or the thing you cherish.

(just some confused thoughts)

clark · 2004-01-08 10:00:27

I agree that there is a "hole" in my plan in that I am NOT advocating a genetic engineering program to make humans physiologically adapted to living in groups of up to 15,000 people.

To misuse the words of Bill White then, you are advocating meme-tic engineering, to make humans psychologically adapated to thrive in a Mars determined environment. You're tinkering, and there is nothing wrong with that in and of itself, however, is the tinkering appropriate, possible, or even neccessary?

. Instead, I am advocating (1) neighborhoods of up to 150 people and (2) a City Council that elects a Chief of Police and several assistants.

Yes, the 150 person socialization upper limit... what does that work out to? 30 families of 5 people? 37 families of 4? This is what we are really talking about, since the City is a settlement, right?

So let's say we have 30 families, where the expectation is that the father is the decision maker, the mother... what was the mother's role again? We have a localy elected Sheriff (by our neighborhood Council, right?) and several assistants. So, how big are these neighborhood Council's anyway? From the looks of things, you have 30 'head of the households' (i.e. the Fathers).

So, a few of these people will be Council leaders, a few will be Sherrif and Deputy(s). Alreays I can see 10% of your adult population will be part of the 'bueracracy'. Do Council leaders get assistants as well? If so, there goes another 5-10% of your adult population towards buercratic functions.

Will the mothers stay home to nurture the young? If so, say goodbye to 50% of your adult population again.

Me thinks there will be very few child labor laws in the City. Afterall, they are the only ones left to work in the City.

Small neighborhood communities may allow for people to have a better say in their community, but it gives up effeciency and merely allows duplication of effot as each little neighborhood creates its very own government and security force.

. The centerpiece should be that children are trained to be good sociocultural systems engineers. For example, children should be taught that humans have vomeronasal organs and that humans secrete pheromones that regulate each others behavior.

This is why I have a problem with Phi, and with this direction (you're on the right track, IMO): How does this knowledge, this information, or any like it, prepare children to live in a martian environment?

I live near an ocean, so I was taught to swim. I live near the woods, so I was taught to survive in the woods. I live near crime, so I was taught to defend myself. I live near tyranny, so I was taught to guard against it. I live near museum's, so I was taught to appreciate art. I live in a world greater than I, so I was taught about god.

What does Phi teach us about living on Mars?

And in their civics classes, children should study bands, tribes, chiefdoms, and states and they should focus on the social control mechanisms that prevail in those different kinds of societies. That kind of education would prepare children to become members of a Martian settlement's governing body.

No, it prepares children to live with other human beings. It teaches them nothing about life on Mars, or how to cope with living on Mars, so has little meaning beyond any other 'feel-good' ideas that try to teach us how to get along.

This ideal stands in sharp contrast to the American proposition that "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."

Winning really isn't everything?

What kind of symbols would be embedded in the centerpieces on the holiday dinner tables? Symbols play an important part in such rites.

Real quick, 'rite of intensification', please explain what this is/means. (I think I have an idea, but I want to be clear)

Symbols for the centerpieces... the fish, the ants & the grasshopper, the rabbit, and of course, the seed.

Don't try to understand. :laugh:

Scott G. Beach · 2004-01-08 15:51:21

Clark:

You wrote, "We have a localy elected Sheriff (by our neighborhood Council, right?) and several assistants." No, I have not proposed "neighborhood councils." The City Council of the City of Euthenia could be composed of one representative from each neighborhood. The City Council would therefore have 100 members. The City Council might meet once or twice a month and I anticipate that they would serve on a volunteer basis. Based on my experience as a member of the board of directors of a homeowners' association, I believe that serving on the Euthenia City Council is not a job that would require monetary compensation.

I think that if neighborhood councils are to be formed, the composition of those councils should be decided at the neighborhood level. In the 92 nationally sponsored neighborhoods, the people in those neighborhoods would probably base their neighborhood's governance structure on their national traditions. The people in the eight experimental neighborhoods will come up with neighborhood governance structures that are, I hope, uniquely protoMartian and, from an anthropological point of view, fascinating innovations. Maybe they will choose their leaders via tiddly winks tournaments. ;-)

You asked, "Yes, the 150 person socialization upper limit... what does that work out to? 30 families of 5 people?" Studies of "cohousing" communities have concluded that a community of thirty families is the best size. So I believe that 30 families of 5 people is about right. For planning purposes, we can safely use that number. However, some national neighborhoods may be composed of extended families while other neighborhoods my be composed of nuclear families. The composition of each national neighborhood will left to the discretion of each participating nation.

You asked about "rite of intensification." The Thanksgiving Day feast is an example of a rite of intensification -- an event that reinforces social bonds.

jadeheart · 2004-01-08 17:01:56

The problem with most existing religions is that they are being undermined by science. Every time that a paleoanthropologist digs up the remains of one of our distant ancestors the creation stories of various religions become less believable. Phi could help to restore some of the sticking power of religion because children can see Phi in themselves and in their world.

A worthy point. But:

I again find that it is necessary for me to explain that I am not proposing that teachings about Phi be used as a replacement for "OTHER pre-existing religions." As I have previously written, a new Phi-based religion would be seen as a competitor and therefore as an enemy of existing religions, and that perception would impede the development of a sense of social solidarity in Euthenia. I believe that Phi can become a supplement to existing religions that, as such, it can promote social solidarity.

By the time I wrote what I did, I had taken your point about not competing with other religions. My point was, however, that the other religions will not see it this way. A good example is the theory of evolution by natural selection, which was also not intended to supplant any religion. Yet, most religions at the time (and later on also) viewed it as an attack on some of their cornerstone principles. While you and I realize (I think) that Phi could be construed as being simply a manifestation of God's divine architectural/engineering prowess and therefore would ENHANCE pre-existing religions, I just don't think the religions will see it that way. In fact I'll bet that the Catholics and Muslims (at least) will see it as icon-worshipping, detracting from the worship of God himself. Religious officials are awfully territorial and will never let this concept be foisted upon them by some outside agency, no matter how well-intentioned. I just don't think Phi will fly.

Now let me take the liberty of proposing something equally outlandish: How about choosing the first Martian colonists for their LACK of religion and see where that goes. Let their common atheism be their common binding. A fresh start from the cloying, suffocating, superstitious traditions of Old Earth. Imagine how much of a goldmine such a sociological experiment would be. The Martians can develop their own philosophies, religious or otherwise, as conditions suggest. And we could watch it all happen in an age where the story could be recorded and studied from an academic vantage point.

Just an idea. :;):

Scott G. Beach · 2004-01-08 21:18:29

jadeheart:

You have proposed, "choosing the first Martian colonists for their LACK of religion."

In "Songs of Distant Earth," Arthur C. Clarke wrote about a new human society that was "free from the threat of supernatural restraints." This sort of fresh start would be a very interesting thing to watch develop. An experiment like this might answer the question of whether science can completely replace religion. One of the eight "experimental neighborhoods" in The City of Euthenia could declare itself a "religion-free zone" and undertake to test the social viability of a strictly naturalistic worldview. I am a naturalist and I would like to be a part of that experiment. In that neighborhood, Phi would probably be referred to as the Golden Ratio, not as the Divine Proportion.

clark · 2004-01-12 10:48:55

You asked about "rite of intensification." The Thanksgiving Day feast is an example of a rite of intensification -- an event that reinforces social bonds.

How does Phi act as a means to bring people together, or reinforce their social bonds? It looks like a distraction.

Rites of intensification, or celebrations, will be determined by the history and experience of future Martians. I think KSR did something with this by focusing on the first wedding on Mars- they made a special Mars cake, and it ended up becoming the traditional martian wedding cake (the recipe).

So some obvious ones are first landing on Mars, closest and farthest approach from Earth, Martian New Year, City founding, first birth on mars, first day/last day of Martian spring and winter, Leap Day/Week (depending on how time is handled between Earth and Mars).

Scott G. Beach · 2004-01-13 01:01:55

Clark:

You asked, "How does Phi act as a means to bring people together, or reinforce their social bonds?" Phi is an interesting number (1.618033...) but it cannot alone bring people together. However, Phi can be part of the symbolism associated with a rite of some sort. For example, the people of Euthenia could celebrate the 161st day of each year and refer to that day as PhiDay. As part of the preparation for that celebration, children could make paper napkin rings that each bear the name of a person who will participate in a PhiDay feast. Each participant's name could be written on a paper napkin ring so that they would know where to sit down at a dinner table. The paper napkin rings could be fashioned from rectangular strips of paper that have the same proportions as the rectangular section of a Phi symbol, such as the one that I designed and posted at [http://www.geocities.com/scott956282743/exhibit1.htm]http://www.geocities.com/scott956282743/exhibit1.htm

In addition, children might decorate the rings by using colored ink to draw a Phi-based Martian Tile on each ring. See examples of such tiles at [http://www.geocities.com/scott956282743/exhibit3.htm]http://www.geocities.com/scott956282743/exhibit3.htm

Making personalized napkin rings is something that I did as a child in preparation for one of the rites of intensification that I participated in. You have probably had similar experiences.

clark · 2004-01-13 07:46:47

Phi day = Esperanto.

When you make cookies, would you rather use sugar, or artifical sweetner?

If you're going to make a holiday of this thing, might i suggest you give it some physical, as in corporeal, form. Make it a bunny, a fairy, or some gift giving thing. Make it a boogey-man to frighten the children.

Make it a part of Mars, and then you make it relevant.

A gnome that lives in the heart of Olympus Mons, who works all day in his gnome home, making different representations of Phi. Every year, when the Martian winds pick up, the gnome rids on his silver glider sliding through the thin Martian air to place his Phi designs and ideas into the hearts and minds of all people. They say when you listen to the winds, you can hear him giggle in joy, seeing his work come alive on Mars through our hands, or through our understanding of Phi. This special day is usually one of feasts, thanks, and forgivness.

Scott G. Beach · 2004-01-13 17:45:45

Clark:

You wrote, "Phi day = Esperanto." That is an apt analogy. Esperanto is an artificial language and its authors intended that it should unite people all around the world. A PhiDay celebration in The City of Euthenia would have a similar function; uniting people who had come together from all around this world to take life to the next world, Mars.

You asked, "When you make cookies, would you rather use sugar, or artifical sweetner?" I would prefer a sweetner other than sugar because of the corrosive effect that sugar has on human tissues.

Your mention of cookies has given me an idea. On PhiDay, children could bake cookies that have the shape of a regular pentagon. They could decorate those cookies with pentagrams (5-pointed stars). The lines of a pentagram cut each other into line segments that have the relative proportions Phi, one, and phi (the reciprocal of Phi is equal to 0.618033... and it is usually spelled with a lower case "p").

Young children could use pentagon-shaped cookie cutters that had been made by older children in their high school metal shop classes. Those cookie cutters might be fashioned from sheet metal that has a significant gold content (i.e., 10 percent gold).

You wrote, "If you're going to make a holiday of this thing, might I suggest you give it some physical, as in corporeal, form." How about PhiMan! He would be dressed in a Superman-like costume of red, green, blue and gold, with a big pentagram on his chest and a large belt buckle in the shape of a Phi symbol. He would have a red cape that has the proportions of a Golden Triangle. At the end of the PhiDay celebration he would dive off of the high-dive in the city natatorium, saying loudly, as he strode confidently to the end of the diving board "3, 2, 1, 1" (as in the Fibonacci sequence). After "launch," he would say "to Mars." He would be diving toward a large image of Mars that had been placed on the bottom of the pool. After setting this example, children would follow him "to Mars." Then their parents would wrap them in towels and take them home to change them into dry clothes. This would be the conclusion of the PhiDay celebration.

Take a look at the "to Mars" drawing that I have posted at [http://www.geocities.com/scott956282743/exhibit4.htm]http://www.geocities.com/scott956282743/exhibit4.htm
Children could "fuel" themselves by eating a "to Mars" cookie just before going off the high dive.

I started this discussion with the title "A New Vision for Mars, Include Ordinary People and Their Kids." My description of the PhiDay celebration probably sounds childish and that is exactly what I intend. PhiDay should be a celebration that is especially fun for children to participate in. The ultimate purpose of PhiDay is to inspire children to work together, as a team, to take life to Mars.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-08-14 08:53:35

Want to colonize Mars? Talk to this outer space anthropologist first
https://phys.org/news/2022-08-colonize- … ogist.html

"This Will Be Mars One Day": Elon Musk Tweets Prophetic Launch Pad Pic
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/elon-mu … ay-3248199

Astronaut Nicole Aunapu Mann will make history as the first Native woman to fly into space
https://www.adn.com/nation-world/2022/0 … nto-space/

She has a a Bachelor of Naval Science degree in mechanical engineering, completed training for the F/A-18 Hornet in VFA-106 at NAS Oceana, served as an F/A-18 Test Pilot.

Round Valley Indian Reservation is a federally recognized Indian reservation lying primarily in northern Mendocino County, California, United States

https://web.archive.org/web/20130112042 … tions.html

http://rvit.org/

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