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Looks like the bigger tube is better. Well once the balloon is at it highest point inside the tube, perhaps they can just pick it up the rest of the way with a crane mounted above it. The H2 doesn't have to be at escape velocity then.
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Doubling of the almost-zero flow rate is still almost-zero. Unless you can get to a height where the escape velocity is below 3000m/s, then you still aren't going to get anywhere with gas.
The whole advantage of your tube in the first place was non-stop, continuous, contiguous flow from ground level to orbit using only thermal kenetics and modest pressures, and now you are abandoning it for a balloon/slash/tank arrangement? The Balloon will rise just about as high in the outside atmosphere as it would in the tube you know.
Why bother floating it up on a balloon when you can liquify it, put it into a tank, and send it up on a space elevator if you are going to go through all this balloon nonsense, which still can't carry much mass.
[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]
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Dicktice,
That too. It will work.
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No, it will not work. You can't push the molecules straight up 200 miles by pushing them with more gas molecules or accelerating them with a particle beam.
[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]
[i]The glass is at 50% of capacity[/i]
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Yes it will work. Just as sure as H2 balloon rises.
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No, because it will not rise high enough, nor will it make the molecules inside the balloon go any faster, hence the gas inside will not reach orbit nor orbital velocities in order to stay up.
[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]
[i]The glass is at 50% of capacity[/i]
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Yes but from there it can be plucked up higher with a crane from an orbiting station.Therefore, it never reached escape velocity.In fact it had to slow down all the way to its highest point before the crane can snatch it up.
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This is then, as you describe, a completly seperate system than your tube, and is infact a space elevator that pulls a tank into orbit. This tank just happens to be bouyant for a small portion of its trip in the atmosphere, and holds very little if any actual mass of gas. It is better to just liquify the LH2 and use the crane to pull it all the way from the ground.
[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]
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Well, you could lower the hook to a point just below the H2 gas then have the hook make a sealed connection against the pipe wall and then raise the hook thus pulling all the gas out of the pipe like a pump.
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Nope, because the gas in the balloon, transferred to a hose by pump up the tube, would not be going fast enough to reach escape velocity, and would settle at the bottom no matter how much you pumped. You cannot side-step the need for the molecules to reach aproach velocity with any plumbing trick.
Nor does the balloon hold a useful quantity of hydrogen gas to begin with.
[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]
[i]The glass is at 50% of capacity[/i]
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Not talking about a balloon this time. Lower the hook to a point below the gas then pull the gas futher up the tube to the station above it. How low do you have to lower the hook?
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You mean a hose, and not a hook.
No, this won't work... space is the ultimate vacuum pump, yet it doesn't suck our atmosphere away. On the microscale, the way a vacuum pump works is by squeezing gas molecules out of a closed chaimber with a solid piston, turbine blade, or whatnot that the gas cannot penitrate. Then, this volume which now has fewer gas molecules is under a vacuum, and the gas you want to move is admitted through a valve. The random motion of the gas molecules, barring gravity, will want to assume an equal density within a closed space, and so will bounce into the pump chaimber and the cycle repeated.
However, when gravity is involved and there is such an extreme height difference, the molecules will not be moving fast enough to move straight up into the empty chaimber of the vacuum pump because they aren't moving near escape velocity. Even with the tiny numbers that do enter the tube this way, their motion will not reach a height greater then that they would naturally in the atmosphere, since gravity affects the molecules inside or outside the tube.
This method won't work at all, and is yet another plumbing trick which you seem incapable of seperating yourself from.
[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]
[i]The glass is at 50% of capacity[/i]
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Still that is a very high altitude for H2 with just 7 psig admitted to the vacummed out tube, and a lot of volume indeed contained within the tube. How is this a plumbing trick when it is doable?
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Not really, because the gas admitted to the tube will fall back down due to gravity for the previously stated reasons. Since you can hardly reach the edge of the atmosphere with the balloon, it still isn't high enough to overcome escape velocity.
And although alot of volume may be contained within the balloon, the mass is what really counts, and you simply don't have much of that either... The usefulness of the tube in the first place, if it would work, is that you wouldn't need a balloon to begin with.
You are still not thinking from the microworld up... stop thinking about pressure, pressure is an illusion caused by molecular collisions and has nothing to do with the speed of the molecules... all that matters is getting the molecules up to escape velocity efficently in such a manner that they can be collected.
[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]
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I agree with you I don't think a balloon is needed. Lets just put 7 psig of H2 followed by 2 psig of He. This gives us a total of 9 psig of total gas pressure. Now we can let the tube equalize with atmosphere from the bottom. We should have 3 seperate layers of gas within the tube now that is equalized with the outside air pressure. H2 at the top, He in the middle ,and Atmospheric air at the bottom. AGREE?
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Nope
And you must not have read my last post at all, which clearly states that pressure does not affect the velocity, and hence the maximum altitude, that a molecule can achieve.
Again, the gasses will diffuse into eachother, remember they are completly permiable and miscilbe... there will be slightly more hydrogen and a bit less then that of helium at the top, but there will be no thick distinct layers at equilibrium because hydrogen, helium, and air will all be equally pulled down the tube and mix. The pressure at the top of the column, which will not be any higher then that of the atmosphere outside the tube, will be essentially zero and quite worthless. The only reason there is any seperation at all is because the faster moving hydrogen molecules moving upward gain a greater height then slower molecules, so their trajectory arc is taller.
The molecules though, even the useful top speed fraction of hydrogens at 3000m/s, still aren't moving fast enough to reach escape velocity. Adding pressures or layering the gas will not increase the speed of the molecules, hence it will not increase the height of the column of gas.
Pressure differentials are just more useless plumbing tricks
[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]
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So there is H2 inside the tube, and it is at the same height as the atmosphere outside the tube at its highest point. So the gasses will seperate over time as they do inside the Generator casing.
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No, because eventually the gasses even in the generator casing will mix, it just takes time.
[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]
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Not from what I have seen on the H2 purity meter the exact opposite happens.
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If you gave it long enough, the guage would drop. The height difference is not enough to cause equilibrium fractioning.
[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]
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So what would take the space of the H2 that fell?
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The hydrogen would simply mix with the other gasses until an equal, homogeneous mixture was established. You said they injected CO2 as a purge gas?
[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]
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No I don't think the lighter H2 will displace the heavier CO2 from the bottom upward.It just doesn't make sense.
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Yes it does. Otherwise, why doesn't all the heavy carbon dioxide pool on the floor and we all suffocate? Why doesn't the oxygen in the air fraction and settle under the nitrogen in the air, leading to a ~100% oxygen content at shoulder level, inducing a global firestorm from the slightest spark?
Gasses are molecules are moving at random in empty space. There is nothing precluding one molecule from entering the empty space of another gas, hence due to the random motion of the molecules, the gasses will eventually mix... it just might take a while, since molecules don't move in a straight line very far. When you put gravity into the picture, since molecules travel very fast gravity has little effect between one kind (or weight) of a molecule or another over a short height difference. Even a very slow moving molecule will be able to reach a height of many feet or even miles, and they infact do, its only at very large height differences where this effect becomes substantial.
Again, the microscale is what is really happening... the macroworld fluid & density laws don't take this into account for gasses, and these laws don't apply.
[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]
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It does in the valleys of California. But, it doesn't stay there because the wind finally comes in and scoops it away.
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