STS-114 Mission Coverage and Discussion

GCNRevenger · 2005-07-26 19:32:33

There are a few possible eventualities if Discovery's forward landing gear hatch is damaged:

-NASA may get lucky and it not be a problem if the damage is minor

-Method for gluing hole without sealing gear hatch shut is devised and sucessfully executed

-Minor breach leads to destruction of landing gear, forcing crew bailout over Florida, or if the hatch is stuck... maybe crash landing if altitude too low for bailout

-Major breach leads to loss of vehicle during reentry just like Columbia

-NASA decides to excercize the ISS "lifeboat" option and try to rush Atlantis to the rescue, which may be sucessful

-Possibility that Atlantis would mission fail on launch or landing, particularly with rushed launch preperations

-ISS system failure, forcing abandonment of station, and making NASA try to bring Discovery home anyway, except that its fuel cells will be near or completly expended, forcing rapid return (and no spacewalks to patch holes). If fuel cells are empty, the best that can be hoped for is to bail out anywhere before Discovery drops like a rock.
------------------------------------------------------------

Now about what happens to NASA with any of these things...

-NASA will cancel Shuttle perminantly for sure right now either way

-Congress may decide that the current incarnation of NASA is incompetant, medium to long term end of US manned spaceflight, possible diversion of NASA funds to private companies, or simply to welfare/pet projects/budget balencing.

-Congress will give NASA a pass on Shuttle three times in a row, ISS will basically be forgotten, and after a breif to modest length of time of lamentation and pennance, VSE will continue. Major bloodletting at high to mid level management throughout NASA.

BWhite · 2005-07-26 20:48:14

ISS will provide opportunities for a thorough visual inspection of the underside of Discovery.

If there is any damage, it should be spotted.

Commodore · 2005-07-26 20:55:01

I think they can fix little tiles like that. Its just a matter of making sure the goo used to do it doesn't interfere with the landing gear door.

Regardless every issue like this reduces the number of shuttle launches we do. That much is clear.

The amount of sweating Griffen does over the next two weeks will weight heavily on what decisions are made over the next few months.

Commodore · 2005-07-26 21:23:49

According to images at space flight now, they are just chips out of the tiles, which could either mean theres enough still there to do the job, or its a much more complicated repair and we are screwed.

Also, it would seem we took a bird out with us. Is that bad omen?
http://www.spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/s … es/]Debris Pics

GCNRevenger · 2005-07-26 22:36:01

I was under the impression that the caulking stuff was intended to patch holes where the tile was absent, and the glue could reach the felt underside of the orbiter... not stick to half-broken tiles. Can astronauts remove tiles on orbit? Could they open the landing gear door to fix the seal on orbit too?

I'm not liking this, its making me nervous.

I wonder if Griffin is quietly ordering a rush job for Atlantis...

Rxke · 2005-07-27 02:27:32

Hey, they use plain simple Tyvek!
Impressive they use something off-the shelves, and not a $$$ variant, as they used to in the oleden days.

I think those tiles can be pulled off by hand. But if that's ideal? It (the force applied, clumsily wiggling with those suited gloved fingers etc..) would probably lead to weakening of the bonds between nearby tiles and velvet...
OTOH, broken tiles will probably have either a jagged edge or a porous structure, making the caulk stick more easily?

re: silently getting the spare shuttle onlne, maybe he should, would be a good drill re: feasibility of such a scenario..

Hmmm... To look at it on the bright side: news coverage on this will be rather big, time again to take opportunity and do some PR work re: moon and Mars visionthing.

Palomar · 2005-07-27 05:51:07

NASA Investigates Tile Damage To Shuttle From Liftoff
Cape Canaveral (AFP) Jul 26, 2005
A tiny piece of tile and a larger piece of debris came off the space shuttle Discovery as it blasted off Tuesday during its landmark first flight after the Columbia disaster, NASA said. The origin of the debris shown in a separate video at a press briefing was unknown but it appeared to have fallen free as the booster rockets broke away without touching the shuttle

*That's from spacedaily.com.

--Cindy

GCNRevenger · 2005-07-27 07:29:21

"There is no question that we have more data now than we have ever had before," Flight Director LeRoy Cain told The Associated Press. "We are going to see things when we look and so one of the things we have worked really hard on is to make sure we understand what are we looking at."

What is it with NASA these days? All this gibberish about "data" and "understanding;" knowing you have a problem is one thing, but being able to do something about a potential problem... thats what is important. Worst case senario, that the tiles astride the seal of the nose gear hatch, could they replace the tile with a big daub of caulk by suited astronaut or not?

News coverage would be rather bad, to report that Discovery, on the first flight after Columbia, that there is a signifigant chance it could be destroyed with all hands by the similar flaw as with Columbia. If the first Shuttle after Challenger blew up due to the seals between solid rocket booster segments, I doubt that NASA would have survived.

Doing an emergency rush of Atlantis to flight readiness isn't something to be done lightly... it would cost extra money and substantially increase the risk of failure. Its not something you want to do in a hurry if you don't have to.

Commodore · 2005-07-27 07:39:17

http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/05 … l]Atlantis Status

Palomar · 2005-07-27 10:55:54

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050727/ap_ … PUCUl]NASA "not fazed" by tile situation

*Maybe.

And maybe they're sweating bullets.

--Cindy

Stormrage · 2005-07-27 11:03:35

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050727/ap_ … PUCUl]NASA "not fazed" by tile situation
*Maybe.
And maybe they're sweating bullets.
--Cindy

They are peeing in their pants probably. They can't say if this is dangerous even if it was.

I hope this urges them to drop the shuttle program.

Commodore · 2005-07-27 11:18:35

'Haven't decided if we need to take a closer look or not"

Theres a load of bull.

Palomar · 2005-07-27 13:29:45

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050727/sc_ … c]Russians relieved

*Hopefully it won't be short-lived. :?

--Cindy

Rxke · 2005-07-27 13:34:28

aw come on!
tiles have been blowing off the shuttle *every single* launch. Also on difficult spots.

Don't get all emo after Columbia.

GCNRevenger · 2005-07-27 14:38:37

There are some tiles that Shuttle really can't afford to lose though Rxke, that if a seal around a landing gear, structural/fuel interconnect, or nose/leading edge seam is breached that might be alot worse then a tile in the middle of a flat place. If Shuttle's rubber tires, landing gear hydraulics, door warping, or whatnot are damaged then a landing is impossible... and if its a serious breach, then that might threaten Shuttle's aerodynamic and structural integrity, and it really would come apart just like Columbia.

It is also uncomfortably close to the crew cabin, and if THAT leaks, even a little bit... well, you can guess what putting a hypersonic plasma torch inside a small aluminum room would be like.

Edit: I really, really, really think that NASA needs to find out if the geniuses who settled on silica tiles and carbon leading edge pannels still work for NASA, and if so, fire them yesterday. See if they can find some criminal negligence to charge them with too. I mean honestly, the correct answer is "we can't use them, because they are too fragile."

Josh Cryer · 2005-07-27 14:58:37

This is sensationalism guys, outright, silly, sensationalism. Don't watch the news if you want to keep your heads on.

What will happen is they'll do some more photographing as they near the ISS, then they'll probably do an inspection or two, just so the astronauts can stretch their legs, but no repairs will be deemed necessary, and Discovery will have a happy landing a few days later, with the news media hyping everything beyond comprehension, talking about the "death possibilities" and so on. The astronauts will exit the Shuttle to amazed looks, themselves feeling as if everything went normal and the rest of the world had gone insane.

Palomar · 2005-07-27 15:13:12

*I could mention having actually witnessed Saturn V launches (although I was but a wee young lass at the time)...now that was something to get excited about.

Hopefully no further untoward events and the crew will arrive home safely. The shuttle got b-o-r-i-n-g for me in 1977. {yawn}

And I reckon that's enough said.

--Cindy

P.S.: And I don't think GCN is being sensationalist. He's got some very good points. I'll just be glad when they retired the <expletive deleted> shuttle fleet.

Stormrage · 2005-07-27 15:28:08

*I could mention having actually witnessed Saturn V launches (although I was but a wee young lass at the time)...now that was something to get excited about.
Hopefully no further untoward events and the crew will arrive home safely. The shuttle got b-o-r-i-n-g for me in 1977. {yawn}
And I reckon that's enough said.
--Cindy
P.S.: And I don't think GCN is being sensationalist. He's got some very good points. I'll just be glad when they retired the <expletive deleted> shuttle fleet.

How old are you? I thought in the region of 20-30. Are you 50?

Rxke · 2005-07-27 15:36:13

*scrambles for old newspaper clippings* Searchtime proves to be better than googling for it... *

Eh... STS1 launched april 13, 1981... (I was eleven then, remember it as it was yesterday, though...)

Palomar · 2005-07-27 15:37:54

*I could mention having actually witnessed Saturn V launches (although I was but a wee young lass at the time)...now that was something to get excited about.
Hopefully no further untoward events and the crew will arrive home safely. The shuttle got b-o-r-i-n-g for me in 1977. {yawn}
And I reckon that's enough said.
--Cindy
P.S.: And I don't think GCN is being sensationalist. He's got some very good points. I'll just be glad when they retired the <expletive deleted> shuttle fleet.
How old are you? I thought in the region of 20-30. Are you 50?

50?? Shaun will love that, if he sees it.

Nope, just turned 40. I do remember the launch of Apollo 11; I'd just turned 4 and have brief bits of memories about it. I also have distinct memories of Apollo 13. Certainly I heard about the other post-11 missions too, but don't have specific memories about them.

Back on topic.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2005-07-27 15:44:38

*scrambles for old newspaper clippings* Searchtime proves to be better than googling for it... *
Eh... STS1 launched april 13, 1981... (I was eleven then, remember it as it was yesterday, though...)

*Better explain myself a bit: I was referring to already being bored with the shuttle concept after Shatner and Nimoy gave autographs in 1976 when the shuttle Enterprise was unveiled.

Shatner -- I had a crush on him. The shuttle? The critics were right: We'd be stuck in orbit for decades. It didn't fire my imagination in the least. And after the Saturn V? What a downgrade.

Whoops...I'm being bad.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2005-07-27 16:32:51

*This just in from Yahoo! news:

NASA Says Foam Insulation Flew Off Shuttle
AP - 37 minutes ago
SPACE CENTER, Houston - NASA said Wednesday that the mysterious object that came flying off the shuttle Discovery's fuel tank during liftoff was a sizable chunk of foam insulation — the very thing that doomed Columbia. But this time, fortunately, it didn't hit the spacecraft. Space agency officials also said that a chipped thermal tile on Discovery's belly does not appear to be a danger, and it cautioned the public against overreacting to every speck of damage sustained by the shuttle during liftoff.

Thank goodness it missed Discovery. Our best to the crew.

--Cindy

GCNRevenger · 2005-07-27 17:03:03

Yeah I know I may be overreacting, but I am parinoid to the point of superstition about this mission... but come on, even a slim chance of Discovery going down the same way as Columbia ought to make you shivver a bit...

It really boggles the mind how NASA decided that it was okay to use such an incredibly flimsy heat shield. That is incompetance, plain and simple... either the engineers, or their managers that aproved the design.

Edit: This just in, Atlantis and all future Shuttle flights are grounded due to the large foam chunk that fell off the external tank and narrowly missed hitting Discovery (!!!)

Grypd · 2005-07-27 17:11:53

Nasa to ground the shuttle fleet.

http://www.spacedaily.com/2005/05072722 … Spacedaily article

NASA said wednesday it was grounding the US spaceshuttle fleet after a large piece of foam insulation broke off from the fuel tank of the Discovery shuttle

While the US space agency said the foam did not damage the shuttle on tuesdays launch, a spokesman said the future flights are on hold until the problem is corrected

Now that has really thrown a spanner in the works

GCNRevenger · 2005-07-27 17:22:07

Its just like a bad, sick joke... hundreds of millions of dollars and a thousand days of work and lethal-sized peices of foam still fall off...

What is it going to take NASA? Why haven't you proposed REAL solutions, like wrapping the whole tank with high-end metal wire mesh or something. No more foam!

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#101 2005-07-26 19:32:33

Re: STS-114 Mission Coverage and Discussion

#102 2005-07-26 20:48:14

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#107 2005-07-27 05:51:07

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#108 2005-07-27 07:29:21

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#114 2005-07-27 13:34:28

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#115 2005-07-27 14:38:37

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#116 2005-07-27 14:58:37

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#117 2005-07-27 15:13:12

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#118 2005-07-27 15:28:08

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#119 2005-07-27 15:36:13

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#120 2005-07-27 15:37:54

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#121 2005-07-27 15:44:38

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