STS-114 Mission Coverage and Discussion

srmeaney · 2005-08-05 10:48:31

The decision to land Columbia wasn't flawed for one very simple principle: You don't worry about things you can't fix. A rescue would have been impossible, a repair would have been impossible, a non-fatal reentry would have been unlikly if NASA knew about the damage or not. So even if they knew, the only thing they could have done was crossed their fingers and hoped for the best. Columbia was doomed the day that NASA decided to keep flying Shuttle as-is after wing-foam impact damage was discoverd after an earlier flight.

If NASA is willing to order a crew to its death knowing the outcome, then they should be prepared to be executed for multiple Murder. Texas has the Death penalty, The Columbia crew died in Texan Airspace.

PS.

My husband and I saw the ISS and one of the Shuttles pass over in this manner in the mid-1990s. It really is an awesome sight; indeed, like big bright stars gliding swiftly along.

We get to see shuttle Launches that pass North Australia at seven P.M. All it is is a fireball chasing a star (the ISS). I saw one during the late 90's. I always like to watch em go by...

RobertDyck · 2005-08-05 11:13:08

You don't worry about things you can't fix. A rescue would have been impossible, a repair would have been impossible, a non-fatal reentry would have been unlikly if NASA knew about the damage or not.

Oh, don't say things like that. The decision to fly without an airlock was stupid. Shuttle was built with 2 positions for the airlock: inside the mid-deck or outside in the cargo bay. The cargo bay airlock was replaced with a new one that has a docking adapter for ISS, but they could have flown with one of them. Once the problem was discovered, they could have sent another orbiter with 2 airlocks: one for itself and the other for Columbia. Use the arm to transfer the airlock to Columbia, we've seen how effective it is. The docking adapter for ISS is a universal style, not male/female. That would have permitted one orbiter to dock directly to the other, back-to-back, cargo bay to cargo bay, with one crossing the other at 90° or there about. If that didn't work then use the grapple attachment to connect the arm of one orbiter to the airlock of the other, holding orbiters together. Then string a rope between airlocks so astronauts can space walk in suits. The Shuttle can carry 7 astronauts normally, but I'm sure a couple astronauts would be willing to sit on the floor and hold on tight if the alternative was death. They might get some bruises but that's better than death. Besides, Columbia carried the SPACEHAB double module to carry experiments; it could have been transferred to the rescue shuttle and a couple seats bolted inside to carry astronauts down.

The repair kits being tested by Discovery during this mission weren't available for Columbia, but rescue was available. After all, Apollo had a kit that would attach 2 more seats in the command module to form a rescue module. The 2 additional seats were beneath the 3 normal seats, where lunar samples would normally go. When one of the missions to Skylab had thruster trouble, an Apollo CSM was fitted with the rescue kit in preparation. Luckily the last set of thrusters didn't fail so the rescue Apollo wasn't needed, but Apollo can be used for rescue then why shouldn't Shuttle? As I just described, it can.

I found confirmation that the arm wasn't carried on STS-107; on the MDR web site, manufacturer of the arm. Sad considering the camera on the standard Arm would have been able to view the leading edge of the left wing. http://spaceresearch.nasa.gov/sts-107/1 … w.pdf]This document shows the configuration of STS-107, including a tunnel adapter connected to the middeck hatch, and the transfer tunnel to SPACEHAB. (Bottom of second page.) However, there is no external airlock or docking module connected. There is some question whether Columbia carried an internal airlock in the middeck, which could have been used if the door between tunnel adapter and tunnel was sealed, permitting the adapter to depressurize. For SpaceLab this permitted EVA, that capability was probably retained with SPACEHAB. http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/spacenews/f … e.pdf]This document states upgrades moved the airlock to the cargo bay for all orbiters except Columbia, so that implies Columbia had an airlock at the time. If that's true, it means rescue was quite possible; no transfer of modules necessary, just EVA.

SpaceNut · 2005-08-05 11:30:24

The Discovery crew is due to depart from the station on early Saturday. The astronauts will test landing systems on their craft during that and the following day. Touchdown at KSC’s three-mile shuttle runway remains scheduled for 4:46 a.m. EDT Monday.

Nasa return to flight

While we will be glad when they are safely on the ground. What is the shuttles future and when or if does it fly again. The first few missions were slated for logistics of resupply for the station but with the recent failure to keep the foam on the tank. How does it effect what will be?

This was the last Upcoming Space Shuttle Missions
to which STS-121 (115) Atlantis/OV-104 (27) was to fly on Sept. 9 - Sept. 24.

NASA's Shuttle and Rocket Missions launch schedule

GCNRevenger · 2005-08-05 11:45:27

I think that is being pretty over optimistic... even if spy satelites/telescopes were able to gather and NASA understand the full extent of the damage within a few days of reaching orbit, it STILL would have been unlikly that NASA could have thrown together one of the other Shuttles in time before Columbia's LSS expired. And then there is the time needed to sync orbits with Columbia and perform the actual redezvous, mating, and crew transfer somehow.

How exactly is a spy sat/scope supposed to see a black hole on a black background too? No no, too many things would have to have gone just right for a rescue to have had a reasonable probability of sucess. The crew of Columbia was probobly doomed when NASA ignored the threat of foam damage long before the mission was even put together.

SpaceNut · 2005-08-05 21:14:38

Well we have talked about what it would take to make the ride safer going up but now after the landing it will be time to talk about the refurbishment costs and why each mission cost so much.

There has been a changing of the guard for the refurb of the shuttle main engines.
For Pratt, It Is Rocket Science

When the space shuttle Discovery returns to Earth, the job of overseeing its main engines will belong to East Hartford-based Pratt & Whitney.
Pratt took over the task late Tuesday when it officially concluded its purchase of Boeing's Rocketdyne Power & Propulsion unit in a deal valued at about $700 million.

srmeaney · 2005-08-06 05:29:50

How exactly is a spy sat/scope supposed to see a black hole on a black background too? No no, too many things would have to have gone just right for a rescue to have had a reasonable probability of sucess. The crew of Columbia was probobly doomed when NASA ignored the threat of foam damage long before the mission was even put together.

Yeah, someone would have had to inspect the launch footage ten minutes after launch, and decided that the red dust was half the leading edge of the wing going boom! and decided hey, they wont survive reentry, and hey we have a week and a half to get something to them because right there day one they would have been told to ration the food and extend it out as long as possible to give the rescue time to launch and intercept.

Palomar · 2005-08-06 07:20:19

What's this I just heard on ABC morning news (TV) regarding something seeming to have been knocked off Discovery while it was undocking with ISS? I said seeming because they're not sure if it might have simply been a glare of light caught in the camera (or something to that effect) which only *appears* to be a piece of something flying away. This occurred around 3:20 a.m. EDT.

A voice clip from Eileen Collins discussing the matter was played; perhaps she's simply tired or whatever (could be, especially considering the hour), but her voice did sound a bit strained/concerned.

No word on this particular situation yet at Yahoo! or any of the space news web sites.

--Cindy

SpaceNut · 2005-08-07 19:54:59

Have not seen any indication as such.

This landing a bit unusual in that it is coming from the south heading north for the landing strip in Florida's KSC.
STS-114 Landing Ground Tracks
Expected timeline:

Monday, August 8 (Flight Day 14):
2:03 a.m.
Payload bay door closing
3:43 a.m.
Deorbit burn
4:46 a.m.
KSC Landing
NET 5 a.m.
Post-Landing News Conference, KSC
NET L + 2 hrs
Entry Flight Director Post-Landing News Conference, JSC
NET L + 3 hrs
Entry Flight Control Team Video Replay
NET L + 6 hrs
Crew Post-Landing News Conference, KSC (Commander and available crewmembers)

Good Luck and safe landing

Josh Cryer · 2005-08-08 00:52:15

2 more hours. $100 says they'll be fine. Any takers?

Josh Cryer · 2005-08-08 03:11:46

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u … ce_shuttle

NASA Delays until Tuesday.

I guess I stayed up for nothing.

Again.

Damnit.

G'night.

SpaceNut · 2005-08-08 06:28:49

I had chosen to forgo waiting up myself for the shuttle landing. Being here in NH would not have given me much to view. I would have a better time watching the news sites with live feeds.

Here are the next couple of days possible landing chances:

ORBIT...TIG..........LANDING....SITE
Tuesday, Aug. 9
217.....04:01 AM.....05:07 AM...Kennedy Space Center
218.....05:33 AM.....06:39 AM...White Sands, NM
218.....05:37 AM.....06:43 AM...Kennedy Space Center
219.....07:06 AM.....08:12 AM...Edwards AFB, CA
219.....07:09 AM.....08:13 AM...White Sands, NM
220.....08:44 AM.....09:47 AM...Edwards AFB, CA
Wednesday, Aug. 10
232.....02:50 AM.....03:53 AM...Kennedy Space Center
233.....04:25 AM.....05:28 AM...Kennedy Space Center
234.....05:55 AM.....06:58 AM...Edwards AFB, CA
234.....05:57 AM.....06:59 AM...White Sands, NM
235.....07:31 AM.....08:32 AM...Edwards AFB, CA
235.....07:33 AM.....08:34 AM...White Sands, NM

Palomar · 2005-08-09 04:49:27

*Just saw a few headlines. Apparently they're going to attempt to land Discovery in California. White Sands here in NM is also on alert for a potential landing. I'm not sure where exactly that landing site is, but White Sands begins only 25 miles from my home, just on the other side of the big mountain chain to the east (Organ Mtns).

Have heard the crew's family are on an "emotional rollercoaster" (as I'm sure are the crew).

Best of luck.

--Cindy

SpaceNut · 2005-08-09 06:18:36

Just watched the Nasa feed of landing in Edwards.

They are safely home.

Nasa tv web cast page

srmeaney · 2005-08-09 07:33:59

So the shuttle lands safely in Calafornia, I guess a whole bunch of NASA employees get to not be executed for gross incompetence.

Josh Cryer · 2005-08-09 07:49:04

Palomar · 2005-08-09 07:49:29

*Very glad to know they arrived safely. Now am wondering about Atlantis. Last I read/heard, the September mission was scrubbed but then some backtracking was going on and it was "maybe."

I'm very curious to see what Michael Griffin and the other NASA honchos will do with respect to another mission this year.

--Cindy

GCNRevenger · 2005-08-09 08:16:23

Okay, big sigh of reliefe...

...now lets all go to Michoud with torches/pitchforkes/rope and find the fools in charge...

This whole business with the new foam is just an absolute debacle... Orbiters coming back with tripple the number of tiles damaged, large chunks of foam seperating, etc... So they could save a dime and look good with the never-satistifed environmental extremeists? No thought given to the foams' degredation temperature or behavior at reduced pressure? Inexcuseable.

Griffin at least hast to order a new tank with the old foam and the manually applied stuff ripped of to be replaced with heaters or welded metal strakes or something. It should have been starkly obvious long ago that if hand application is so difficult that it is reguarded as an art, that human error is unaccpetably likly.

Atlantis is September is out for sure, and it would be hard to build a new tank in time for a late-2005 launch.

SpaceNut · 2005-08-10 09:22:12

Well with much belated return of the shuttle to bring up tons of cargo so came down lots of garbage and science experiments.

Shuttle returns with Columbus High School (CHS) experiment

The experiment, featuring microscopic organisms called "water bears," was a focus of study by five Columbus High students who graduated in the spring. Their project called for a study of the effects of space on the tiny organisms.
Now the five students who worked on the project for three years are about to launch collegiate careers.

Sounds interesting, but what can be learned?

SpaceNut · 2005-08-10 20:08:43

Now onto what it has cost nasa for needing to land in Edwards versus being able to land at the cape?
Shuttle Discovery might stop at Columbus Air Force Base

The shuttle has landed 50 times at Edwards and during its previous 49 cross-country flights from there, stopped 11 times Columbus Air Force Base. The last stopover was Endeavor on March 27, 1995.

SpaceNut · 2005-08-11 06:14:03

Wrapping up the damage as seen for the first time by the crew after a short walk around at edwards: Little Exterior Damage Is Found on Shuttle

the Edwards team says Discovery had about 20 dings of an inch or longer, less than usual.
All of the dings seen on the ground had also been noticed when the shuttle was inspected in space, so "there was nothing that dinged it on the way down or during the landing
During the flight, NASA engineers had been concerned about minor damage to an insulating blanket near the shuttle's cockpit window. They had worried that the blanket could come off during reentry and damage the shuttle.
They considered a fourth spacewalk to try to repair it, but ultimately decided that such an attempt might do more harm than good.
Inspection on the ground showed no new damage to the blanket, Brown said.
"It's more frayed or fuzzy than damaged," he said, and it showed no sign of scorch marks from the reentry.

Ground crew to get orbitor back home:

About 100 people from NASA were dispatched to Edwards over the weekend to prepare for the possibility of a landing there.
After landing about 170 more employees and manufacturers' representatives were dispatched to California to help with the processing.

Answer to the cost impact I had earlier:

It will probably take nine or 10 days for the turnaround, Brown said.
NASA estimates that it costs about $1 million to bring a shuttle from Edwards to Kennedy.

SpaceNut · 2005-08-12 07:23:03

The ET-119 Rollout was the one used by Discovery. Nasa return to flight page has also the external tank updateof foam loss locations.

Palomar · 2005-08-13 05:45:00

*Just in case anyone's interested, space.com is hosting an image gallery of highlights from this mission.

Of course the unpleasant portions of the mission likely aren't included. Like astronauts nervously biting their fingernails and bug-eyed mission controllers.

Can't link to the gallery as it's "pop-up" in design.

At least there's a bit to celebrate, their safe homecoming being the major point.

--Cindy

SpaceNut · 2005-08-15 05:51:34

Well previously meantioned some things that have comeback down with Discovery have been school experiments.
Shuttle returns A Shoshone-Bannock school project to earth

the school sent three containers of small objects coated with an experimental paint made from lab-generated urine to learn how it would hold up in space. The containers were transported to the station in late December aboard a Russian spacecraft carrying supplies.
The returned paint samples will be compared to control samples which remained on earth.
The end goal, or phase three, is to have astronauts paint to determine if artwork can help ward off depression in space.

SpaceNut · 2005-09-09 09:30:54

Well what else do we know that the return to flight proved....
Fluke Digital Thermometer Goes on US Space Shuttle Discovery “Return to Flight” Voyage

Fluke 54 required surprisingly few changes to ready it for space duty. It was enclosed in a protective aluminum chassis with a plastic window over the thermometer screen and wrapped in a multi-layer blanket of reflective Mylar. With this protective covering, the Fluke 54 stays within its operating range outside the shuttle for up to 8 hours. In the event of a cosmic particle strike that could affect the unit’s software, Swales engineers installed an external switch to disconnect the Fluke 54 battery and automatically reset the software. The space thermometer was also modified for single-button operation for the one temperature test required. The Fluke 80PK-27 Industrial Surface probe was shortened and attached rigidly to the aluminum chassis

Why did we need such a tool:

It was used to check surface temperatures during testing of a “space spackle” type of sealant material called NOAX (short for Non-Oxide Adhesive eXperimental) that may be used to patch small cracks in the thermal tiles if they are damaged during launch or in flight.

With so much that has happened to the ET building facilities it probably will be a long time before we find out the results of the Tile repair kit testing...

Stay tuned for more updates on what did we learn from the return to flight channel

SpaceNut · 2005-10-03 06:56:10

Still finding out more tidbits of what was done as well as what was brought to the station still months after this mission has safely returned home.

Space station's new compressor
Mainstream Engineering Corp. of Rockledge provided an oil-less refrigeration compressor that was delivered to the international space station during July's space shuttle mission.
The compressor was developed for Lockheed Martin Space Operations and for NASA to deal with lubrication problems in a weightless environment. Conventional compressors have gravity-assisted oil-lubricating systems that don't perform well in space.
Mainstream, founded in 1986, developed the world's first oil-less magnetic-bearing centrifugal refrigeration compressor a decade ago.

Now they have something to keep there beer cold in

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Re: STS-114 Mission Coverage and Discussion

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