New Mars Forums

Official discussion forum of The Mars Society and MarsNews.com

You are not logged in.

Announcement

Announcement: As a reader of NewMars forum, we have opportunities for you to assist with technical discussions in several initiatives underway. NewMars needs volunteers with appropriate education, skills, talent, motivation and generosity of spirit as a highly valued member. Write to newmarsmember * gmail.com to tell us about your ability's to help contribute to NewMars and become a registered member.

#26 2004-06-16 08:49:55

Rxke
Member
From: Belgium
Registered: 2003-11-03
Posts: 3,667

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Mars rover spies pot of gold...

NewScientist

Looks like the scientists are *very* happy with the latest findings, the blueberries on Spirit's site might give a better clue about the forming of them mysterious lil' buggers...

"As scientists watched the latest images arrive from Spirit's Gusev crater site at the base of the hills, their reaction was: "Are you sure that's not Meridiani?""[/color:post_uid0]

Offline

#27 2004-06-16 14:58:33

atomoid
Member
From: Santa Cruz, CA
Registered: 2004-02-13
Posts: 252

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

[color=#000F22:post_uid0]

This one is for Cobra;

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … 0615a.html

Scroll down to the Cobra Hood section. This whole page is very interesting.[/quote:post_uid0]
Another fascinating decaying bread loaf remnant...
I couldnt find an anaglyph of this on the lyle.org site
so i whipped one up using the pictures i found in sol 159:
[img:post_uid0]http://www.freewebs.com/atomoid/cobraHood.JPG[/img:post_uid0][/color:post_uid0]


"I think it would be a good idea". - Mahatma Gandhi, when asked what he thought of Western civilization.

Offline

#28 2004-06-16 16:03:17

atomoid
Member
From: Santa Cruz, CA
Registered: 2004-02-13
Posts: 252

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

[color=#000F22:post_uid0]>> here is a very interesting article on blueberries <<
[img:post_uid0]http://www.utah.edu/unews/news_images_2 … s2_sml.jpg[/img:post_uid0]
[img:post_uid0]http://www.utah.edu/unews/news_images_2 … F1_sml.jpg[/img:post_uid0]
"...Martian “blueberries” probably are pure hematite – a form of iron oxide that is gray because it has a larger crystal structure than the reddish form of iron oxide, commonly known as rust. The Utah concretions are mostly sandstone, cemented by hematite that makes up a few percent to perhaps one-third of the rock. The Martian concretions likely precipitated from acidic groundwater. Those in Utah precipitated when hydrocarbon-rich, briny fluids encountered oxygen-rich groundwater....
...That’s the bottom line: hematite is linked to life...
...several geological features were seen both in aerial photos of southern Utah’s hematite-rich areas and in images of Mars’ hematite regions taken by orbiting spacecraft. These features include large rocky landforms shaped like knobs, pipes and buttes, and places where bleached-looking rock forms white sediment beds or ring-shapes on the surface...
...The geologists determined the processes responsible for these large-scale features in Utah involved the flow of [b:post_uid0]briny groundwater saturated with natural gas[/b:post_uid0] that bleaches sandstone, and that such groundwater flow, the precipitation of hard hematite-cemented rock and the later erosion of surrounding softer rock also would explain the formation of the erosion-resistant pipes, buttes, knobs and concretions. They concluded a similar process could have formed concretions and larger landforms on Mars..."

briny groundwater saturated with natural gas (methane?) -martian microbes to supply the necessary ingredients?[/color:post_uid0]


"I think it would be a good idea". - Mahatma Gandhi, when asked what he thought of Western civilization.

Offline

#29 2004-06-17 06:31:45

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

[color=#8D38C9:post_uid5]Giant cousins of Marsian 'blueberries' in Utah

*Similar article to atomoid's (complementary).

Outlines similarities and differences.  Ancient peoples (Native Americans) in the region used the Utah "berries" as marbles in games.  Interesting and short article all around.

--Cindy[/color:post_uid5]


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

Offline

#30 2004-06-22 02:58:28

cassioli
Member
From: Italy
Registered: 2004-02-23
Posts: 218

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

[color=#000000:post_uid0]

Does anyone know of a web site which might host information (such as a clock) as to what time it is at S's site and O's site relative to Greenwich Time?[/quote:post_uid0]
What about minesmile
In the marstime-v2-1.zip file you can find marstime-handheld95.xls file: just load it into your favourite spreadsheet program, and you'll see the corresponding Mars time of current Earth time!
It's called "handheld" as its formatting should allow using it also on any handheld supporting excel format (I use it on my SonyEricsson p800 smartphone).[/color:post_uid0]

Offline

#31 2004-06-22 03:05:05

cassioli
Member
From: Italy
Registered: 2004-02-23
Posts: 218

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

[color=#000000:post_uid0]

I hate it, though, when the pic downsizes automatically after download is complete...wish it would stay [b:post_uid0]full screen[/b:post_uid0].  [/quote:post_uid0]
Use Opera browser in place of Internet Explorer, and you'll be able to change zoom level from 20% to 1000% (yes, one thousand) just by pressing "+" and "-"...  smile (without taking in account that Opera is A LOT  less vulnerable to viruses...)[/color:post_uid0]

Offline

#32 2004-06-22 04:45:40

Rxke
Member
From: Belgium
Registered: 2003-11-03
Posts: 3,667

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

[color=#000000:post_uid0]It's called "handheld" as its formatting should allow using it also on any handheld supporting excel format (I use it on my SonyEricsson p800 smartphone).[/color:post_uid0][/quote:post_uid0]
[color=#000000:post_uid0]Totally off-topic, i know, but boy...

We truly live in amazing times, don't we? Using spreadsheets on a pocket-phone, a computer-designed private spacecraft soaring overhead, and sitting at your unassuming desk, or on the move, being able to look at pictures from Mars...

Computers computers computers... I'm sure glad i like 'em![/color:post_uid0]

Offline

#33 2004-06-22 04:48:01

Rxke
Member
From: Belgium
Registered: 2003-11-03
Posts: 3,667

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

[color=#000000:post_uid0]About the pictures:

New Opp. Microscopic image

Look at it! See that 'disk' wedged between the layers?[/color:post_uid0]

Offline

#34 2004-06-22 06:56:15

REB
Banned
From: Houston, Texas
Registered: 2004-04-07
Posts: 555
Website

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Check out the embedded spheres!

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery....M1.HTML

I am still leaning towards the blueberries being biological origin

What layer is Opportunity at here? This layering looks different from Eagle’s. I bet this is a deeper layer.[/color:post_uid0]


"Run for it? Running's not a plan! Running's what you do, once a plan fails!"  -Earl Bassett

Offline

#35 2004-06-22 07:00:05

REB
Banned
From: Houston, Texas
Registered: 2004-04-07
Posts: 555
Website

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

[color=#000000:post_uid0]A bunch more here;

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … _m144.html

This stuff looks so much like Limestone.[/color:post_uid0]


"Run for it? Running's not a plan! Running's what you do, once a plan fails!"  -Earl Bassett

Offline

#36 2004-06-22 12:09:11

REB
Banned
From: Houston, Texas
Registered: 2004-04-07
Posts: 555
Website

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

[color=#000000:post_uid0]No blueberries that I can see at the Spirit site, but check out that shadow!

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery....7M1.JPG[/color:post_uid0]


"Run for it? Running's not a plan! Running's what you do, once a plan fails!"  -Earl Bassett

Offline

#37 2004-06-22 12:44:09

REB
Banned
From: Houston, Texas
Registered: 2004-04-07
Posts: 555
Website

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Let me add to my last post;

The microscopic pictures of this rock show no spheres. Still this rock has similar characteristics as those over at Opportunity’s site. What does that mean?

If it did form in a similar fashion, say a shallow sea, whatever conditions for the spheres to form over at Opportunity’s site did not happen here. That could be a chemical thing, or even a biological thing.

I think the water was deeper and fresher at the Spirit site than over at the Opportunity site.

There sphere must have something to do with the ancient environment of the Opportunity site. They can not be tektites, or we would see them at the Spirit site. Something in the environment, either chemical, or environmental, must have created them, and this environment was different than any other landing sites on Mars.[/color:post_uid0]


"Run for it? Running's not a plan! Running's what you do, once a plan fails!"  -Earl Bassett

Offline

#38 2004-06-22 19:44:13

Shaun Barrett
Member
From: Cairns, Queensland, Australia
Registered: 2001-12-28
Posts: 2,843

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

[color=#000000:post_uid14]Hi REB.
    I think there may well be more than a grain of truth in what you say about differences between Meridiani and Gusev.
    Meridiani is at the shoreline of what was probably the martian Northern Ocean eons ago. The Northern Ocean is purported to have occupied the northern lowlands and may have existed for millions of years. I can imagine that the water in that ocean would have become progressively saltier as minerals were washed into it over time from the higher land to the south - either by runoff from precipitation in the earliest period or by the release of water from aquifers in later periods.

    On the other hand, Gusev crater was almost certainly filled with no doubt fresher runoff water from the vast highland lake system to its south.
    See THIS SITE for images of the lake and drainage system in question.
    Although the eventual catastrophic release of the bulk of the lake system waters probably caused the breach of Gusev's northern wall, thus allowing salty Northern Ocean water to enter the crater, Gusev was probably a fresh water lake for much of its history.
    This may account for the differences in the geology, as you suggest.

    To me, it's only a matter of time before definitive evidence of inundation by water is found at Gusev. When you look at the satellite images of the extensive lake system to its south, the deep and sinuous Ma'adim Vallis leading into it, and the crater itself, it becomes impossible to conceive of a plausible alternative.
    I'm looking forward very much to what Spirit might find in the layers of the Columbia Hills.
                                                 smile[/color:post_uid14]


The word 'aerobics' came about when the gym instructors got together and said: If we're going to charge $10 an hour, we can't call it Jumping Up and Down.   - Rita Rudner

Offline

#39 2004-06-23 04:11:28

atomoid
Member
From: Santa Cruz, CA
Registered: 2004-02-13
Posts: 252

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

[color=#000F22:post_uid0]This Spirit image of part of the rainCake or breadLoafWreckage or whatever it is stands out real good in 3D
especially notable is the little "support column" stretched bwteen the walls inside the hollow of the "limestone drapery cave-curtain"
which, oh, okay, turns out to be nothing too special[/color:post_uid0]


"I think it would be a good idea". - Mahatma Gandhi, when asked what he thought of Western civilization.

Offline

#40 2004-06-23 09:50:33

GraemeSkinner
Member
From: Eden Hall, Cumbria
Registered: 2004-02-20
Posts: 563
Website

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Computers computers computers... I'm sure glad i like 'em![/color:post_uid0][/quote:post_uid0]
[color=#000000:post_uid0]I like them, when they work!  :;):

Graeme[/color:post_uid0]


There was a young lady named Bright.
Whose speed was far faster than light;
She set out one day
in a relative way
And returned on the previous night.
--Arthur Buller--

Offline

#41 2004-06-25 18:30:58

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

[color=#8D38C9:post_uid7]Spirit and the "Pot of Gold"

*Checking out a softball-sized rock "covered in knobby nuggets atop short rock stalks" at the foot of Columbia Hills.  They're describing it as unlike any rock yet seen on Earth or Mars.  :-\  Hoping it's evidence of watery past at the site but could also have been formed via volcanic processes (hematite).

"'This is a fiendishly difficult target to study,' said Steve Squyres; 'I don't know how these things formed and it's driving me nuts, to be honest.'"

Spirit will examine "Pot of Gold" exclusively a few days more.  Is still having problems with that one wheel.

***

Also, update on Oppy.  Is sitting on "cusp of the steepest slope yet on its descent inside Endurance Crater."  ...

"Opportunity is currently studying a series of rock layers about 16 feet (five meters) inside the lip of Endurance, grinding into each layer with its rock abrasion tool."

Squyres says there's more salt at Endurance than they'd anticipated.  smile  "One hypothesis is that these salts were deposited by evaporating water, then stirred up by Martian winds to give the crater interior its current appearance, Squyres said, adding that Opportunity should answer more questions as it moves further down into the crater."

--Cindy[/color:post_uid7]


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

Offline

#42 2004-06-26 02:15:58

Rxke
Member
From: Belgium
Registered: 2003-11-03
Posts: 3,667

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

[color=#000000:post_uid14]At last they posted sharpish pics of the 'pot of gold:'
http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/2M1414 … 1.JPG.html
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/images/mer/2004 … I7-med.jpg

Hmmm... Not exactly blueberries, no? Hopefully they have mini-TES data on those protruding 'stalks' to compare with the 'real' blueberries...

And check out the new Opp pics... Esp. the RAT ones, that fine layering is mighty impressive....
http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/1M1414 … 1.JPG.html[/color:post_uid14]

Offline

#43 2004-06-26 21:06:25

atomoid
Member
From: Santa Cruz, CA
Registered: 2004-02-13
Posts: 252

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

[color=#000F22:post_uid0]incredible anaglyph images of deeply undercut rock chunks at Endurance (both from sol 136) photos taken of the Yellow Brick Road:

http://www.marsunearthed.com/Opportu...._3D.htm
http://www.marsunearthed.com/Opportu...._3D.htm

its amazing how deep the soil below them has been excavated, leaving hanging precipice egdes. hmm... has the soil been blown away by wind action or is it void left by softer rock that has been blown away or maybe there hasnt been much removal and the terrain is not too different from the original piled jumble of rocks thrown by the impact ages ago?[/color:post_uid0]


"I think it would be a good idea". - Mahatma Gandhi, when asked what he thought of Western civilization.

Offline

#44 2004-06-26 23:51:05

atomoid
Member
From: Santa Cruz, CA
Registered: 2004-02-13
Posts: 252

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

[color=#000F22:post_uid0]here's an "otherwise unavailable anywhere else" 3D anaglyph of some odd rocks from sol 168.
StereoPhoto Maker is great (and free).[/color:post_uid0]


"I think it would be a good idea". - Mahatma Gandhi, when asked what he thought of Western civilization.

Offline

#45 2004-06-27 00:19:19

atomoid
Member
From: Santa Cruz, CA
Registered: 2004-02-13
Posts: 252

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

[color=#000F22:post_uid0]what are the tiny parallel lines in the sand here? check it out right near the rover shadow visible in four of the adjoining images here. hmm, some sort of insect trail like a beetle leaves in the sand?

okay, it's just a blueberry that was likely dislodged by Opportunity then it bounced and hit the sand making a "pock-mark" and then bouncing and rolling through the sand narrowly skirting the little ridge in the sand (whatever that is), leaving a track behind it and coming to a rest at the bottom of its travels.[/color:post_uid0]


"I think it would be a good idea". - Mahatma Gandhi, when asked what he thought of Western civilization.

Offline

#46 2004-06-28 02:27:50

Rxke
Member
From: Belgium
Registered: 2003-11-03
Posts: 3,667

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

[color=#000000:post_uid0]From NASA:

"Team members presented both rovers' status at a press conference at JPL today.  Opportunity has driven far enough into the stadium-sized Endurance Crater to put it within arm's reach of three layers of rock beneath a sulfate-rich layer.  That area is similar to what Opportunity first examined in the shallower "Eagle Crater," where it landed in January. "We're trying to systematically characterize the stratigraphy of the crater as we drive down, analyzing each unit chemically and mineralogically with all the instruments available," said Nicholas Tosca, a science-team affiliate from the State University of New York, Stony Brook. The first two newly accessed layers resemble the upper layer in having sulfate salts and spherical concretions; both are signs of formation of the rocks under wet conditions.

  Squyres said, "I had thought we might see just basalt below the top salty layer, but instead it's salty as far as we've been able to see so far. Every time we see more sulfates as we work down this stack, it adds to the amount of water that was necessary to make this happen."

Water, water, water... :up:[/color:post_uid0]

Offline

#47 2004-06-28 06:40:37

cassioli
Member
From: Italy
Registered: 2004-02-23
Posts: 218

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

[color=#000000:post_uid0]

incredible anaglyph images of deeply undercut rock chunks at Endurance (both from sol 136) photos taken of the Yellow Brick Road:

http://www.marsunearthed.com/Opportu...._3D.htm[/quote:post_uid0]
yikes  DANGER! DANGER!  yikes
Opportunity can't see UNDER the rocks: it just sees a flat rock it can pass over... but then its weight could break that thin rock and wheels could fall down and get stucked!!!!  :realllymad:[/color:post_uid0]

Offline

#48 2004-06-28 13:16:52

REB
Banned
From: Houston, Texas
Registered: 2004-04-07
Posts: 555
Website

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

[color=#000000:post_uid0]I am reminded of;

But in the Latin alphabet, "Jehovah" begins with an "I".

Oppy, if you see a rock with a J on it, don't roll over it![/color:post_uid0]


"Run for it? Running's not a plan! Running's what you do, once a plan fails!"  -Earl Bassett

Offline

#49 2004-06-28 15:08:42

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

[color=#8D38C9:post_uid7]*Marsian meteor snapped by Spirit!

Remember a few months ago, when Spirit took an image of something streaking through the sky and they thought it might be the decaying orbit of an "aging Viking Orbiter"?  I know we had some posts about it -- somewhere back in one of our many S & O threads.  smile 

Anyway, this from space.com's "Astronotes" (column format and updated, so must copy and paste):

***

June 28

Mars Mystery Solved!

Of the many intriguing observations taken by the Mars rovers, one of the most interesting was not of the surrounding geology. Rather, it was an image of the martian atmosphere. Caught in action was something streaking through the sky.

At first, Mars scientists operating the rovers thought the fast moving, caught-on-camera curiosity was a spacecraft -- perhaps an aging Viking Orbiter still circling the red planet.

“The initial thought was that little streak in the sky was an old relic spacecraft. There’s a lot of junk in orbit around Mars,” said Steve Squyres of Cornell University in Ithaca, New York, and principal investigator for the Athena science payload toted on each of the Mars rovers.


Mars meteor captured by Spirit rover.(Click to Enlarge)

But a research group in France came up with the real story, Squyres reported at the American Astronomical Society meeting held earlier this month. The study group took a look at predicted times and radiance for meteor showers at Mars. Turns out, the Spirit rover image was snapped during one of those showers, he said.

“The orientation of the streak in the sky matches the radiant for that shower to within a fraction of a degree. So we’ve seen a martian meteor,” Squyres said.

***

--Cindy  cool

::EDIT::  A pic of the event is available for viewing at space.com; I can't "lift" it (for posting here) by clicking on the image, however.[/color:post_uid7]


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

Offline

#50 2004-06-29 01:51:49

atomoid
Member
From: Santa Cruz, CA
Registered: 2004-02-13
Posts: 252

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

[color=#000F22:post_uid0]Kayaking the tidal salt marsh Elkhorn Slough, I was repeatedly struck by how much the mudbank at the tideline resembles those termite galleries in the bedrock at Meridiani. I was able to snap off a few pictures of some of it, although I was unable to photograph the most compelling specimens in time. The best photo I was able to get does the comparison a little bit of justice at least...
[img:post_uid0]http://www.freewebs.com/atomoid/Elkhorn%2DMarsMud.JPG[/img:post_uid0]
I'm guessing that the similar "termite gallery" holes in the mud are created by crabs burrowing into the voids left by decaying plant roots (look in the lower left). Any naturists out there know more about this kind of stuff?[/color:post_uid0]


"I think it would be a good idea". - Mahatma Gandhi, when asked what he thought of Western civilization.

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB