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#26 2022-02-26 15:14:10

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 5,860

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

SpaceNut,

I never said anything about "wiping Russia off the face of the planet".  This is one of those vengeance issues that vengeful people get caught up in.  What I said was, use this golden opportunity to destroy Russia's war machines, so as to preclude future Russian military operations.

Loss of life on all sides of a conflict can be minimized by destroying all the advanced war machines first.  If two groups of men still want to fight each other, then there's nothing you're going to do about that, but you won't have entire cities destroyed in hours to days.  Without tactical fighters, attack helicopters, tanks, artillery pieces, armored personnel carriers, missile systems, and warships, you can still have a significant loss of life, but only when you have enough men who are willing to fight each other street-by-street, house-by-house.

Without sophisticated war machines, you won't be taking over a country of 45 million people with 150,000 soldiers if only 1% of those 45 million defenders have been armed by their government with carbines / grenades / mortars.  Our military took over Iraq and Afghanistan because we had advanced war machines and the overwhelming majority of the people living there were not intent on fighting us, nor we them, and the people were fed up with the repressive regimes they'd been subjected to.  Basically, you never ever fight "the people" if you expect to win.  That is the fatal mistake that the Russians have now made.  Russia had horrendous casualties in Chechnya, too.  Now you know why.

Anyway, the Russians are already losing a significant number of aircraft, attack helicopters, and armored vehicles to the Ukrainian defenders using American-made Stinger anti-aircraft and Javelin anti-tank missiles.  From what I can see, the Russians also lack any significant night-fighting capabilities, which means they'd be defeated by American forces that have the equipment and training to fight at night.

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#27 2022-02-26 16:37:00

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 25,989

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

Inching towards a decision In a major shift, Germany will send weapons to Ukraine

Seems the war they wanted to forget came back to haunt them just a bit...

Germany’s chancellery announced Saturday evening that it will send 1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 “Stinger” surface-to-air missiles to Ukraine “as quickly as possible.”

Germany will send 14 armored vehicles and up to 10,000 tons of fuel to Ukraine.

Multiple Eastern European countries triggered NATO's Article 4. Here's what that means

The North Atlantic Treaty Organization is a military alliance created in 1949 to provide collective security against Soviet expansionism and to encourage European political integration in the aftermath of World War II.

Also # 5 war crimes....

seems the demand for other to not join is getting a strong nyet....

Finland, Sweden brush off Moscow's warning on joining NATO

Looks like the membership is going to grow...

Communications is still up with those in the Ukraine as Musk says Starlink active in Ukraine as Russian invasion disrupts internet

Better get your local spirits as NH governor orders removal of Russian liquor from state's Liquor & Wine Outlets

Of course social media was to blame in the past but its now Facebook Is Going Up Against Russia by not censoring its platform

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#28 2022-02-27 09:46:34

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 25,989

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

NATO nationals have been killed as Greece signals Russia as a result of this happening. The more foreign nationals of NATO countries will soon allow NATO the reason to put men with in the Ukraine nation to aid in the fight and not just weapons.

Turkey, overseeing passage to Black Sea, calls Russian invasion 'war'

Under the 1936 Montreux Convention, Turkey has control over the Dardanelles and Bosphorus straits that connect the Mediterranean and Black seas and can limit the passage of warships during wartime or if threatened.


several cargo ships have been seized by allies under the sanctions as well

edit

it looks like the EU wants to ban commercial air flights from Russia as another sanction.

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#29 2022-02-27 09:52:52

kbd512
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Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 5,860

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

You have to scroll down the page a bit to see this, but...

Putin praises Russian forces as Ukraine fights back

Vladimir Putin today praised his special forces for “heroically carrying out their military duties” in his Ukrainian invasion.

“Special gratitude to those heroically carrying out their military duty these days in the course of the special operation to provide assistance to the people’s republics of Donbas,” he said in a televised address.

“The heroic traditions of special forces were laid down in the centuries-old history of our army.”

The People's Republic of Donbas.  That sounds an awful lot like a communist country to me.

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#30 2022-02-27 10:21:26

Terraformer
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From: Ceres
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,531
Website

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

It also sounds like an indication of Russia's goals in the invasion. Carve some puppet states out of the Russian-dominant parts of the country (East and South), and force rump Ukraine into neutrality. They have stayed out of western Ukraine, which was never part of the Russian Empire; the fighting seems to be mostly confined on one side of the Dniepr, excepting Keev?

Unfortunately there is way too much propaganda to know what's actually going on there. But not from the Russians, who are keeping quiet -- or at least, the media here is only reporting what the Ukrainian government is saying. So the situation for Ukraine is worse than what we're hearing.


"I'm gonna die surrounded by the biggest idiots in the galaxy." - If this forum was a Mars Colony

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#31 2022-02-27 16:01:23

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
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Posts: 25,989

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#32 2022-02-27 17:05:04

kbd512
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Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 5,860

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

Terraformer,

I'm quite sure that Russia wants to reconstitute the Soviet Union, because Vladimir Putin himself has plainly stated that he thought the dissolution of the Soviet Union was "a great tragedy", and that all those countries that the Soviet military took over, actually belong to Russia.  It's in Putin's "Manifesto Against The West", that he published over a decade ago.  Nobody took him seriously back then.  I'm guessing that the ones who are capable of learning, which immediately eliminates most western heads of state like President Biden, are now reconsidering how serious he was about that.

All I know for sure is that President Trump's end goal of getting the other NATO nations to actually stand up and fight for what they believe in, to put their money and manpower where their mouths are, and to not rely solely on America to do their fighting for them, is now coming to fruition.  Our ultimate aim was never to dictate what the other NATO countries must do.  Your enemies do that to you, not your allies.  Your allies reminding you that self-defense is a prerequisite for simple survival, and is what any good brother would do for his other brothers, even if his other brothers don't want to hear it.  President Trump was masterful at telling people things they don't want to hear, from someone they don't want to hear it from, despite the fact that they needed to shut their ignorant mouths and listen to him anyway.  Anyone who refuses to fight is an ungrateful bystander at best, only made free by the efforts of better men and women than him or her self, and can never truly be an ally.  If Putin attacks any NATO countries, then he'll get to see what a real super power military response actually looks like.

The only good reason I can think of for America not joining this fight is that our presence in Ukraine is highly likely to lead to an escalation and/or spread of the hostilities there, which I'm reasonably sure half-way intelligent Europeans don't want.  Despite the suffering that stems from fighting a protracted guerilla campaign against a ground invasion by a large conventional army like Russia's, it might be best for everyone involved if America sits this one out and allows the Europeans to decide what course of action to take.  Ukraine has plenty of men and women who are willing to fight, educated enough to do so effectively, plenty of war machines supplied by NATO members, and America can supply anything they don't have enough of.

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#33 2022-02-27 18:16:18

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 25,989

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

It appears that Ukraine has taken control of Kharkiv after Russian troops entered the city, it has been claimed. While the Russains missiles rained down on Ukraine’s second city while fierce street fighting broke out overnight. Video of the events was recorded residents or the terrifying footage of Russian military vehicles rolling through empty streets. The conflict between Russia and Ukraine appears like a battle between David and Goliath when comparing their militaries. A former CIA station chief said Russia "overstretched" its military amid an ongoing attack on Ukraine. Vladimir Putin took a great risk here. He's dealing with extended supply lines, which is having an impact — a negative impact on his troop's ability to move. There are major rivers in Ukraine that also pose challenges and there are large cities, and Russia just doesn't have the troops to subdue them. All the while losing many troops as leaks of it have started to trickle out.

Seems a secret to joining is
Kosovo asks U.S. for permanent military base, speedier NATO membership

The United States has already 635 soldiers in the Balkan country to maintain the fragile peace as part of a NATO peacekeeping mission.

"Accelerating Kosovo's membership in NATO and having a permanent base of American forces is an immediate need to guarantee peace, security and stability in the Western Balkans,"

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#34 2022-02-28 11:57:45

Mars_B4_Moon
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Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 3,360

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

Will the destiny of the 21st Century be now led by Tyrants?

Both temples that broadcast the propaganda across East and West are starting to fail, the only question remains which Ministry of Information Catherdral-Temple will fail first.

Kosovo seems to me to be too much of an islamo madhouse so why be so crazy as to invest inside that ticking time bomb? But other 'experts' might have other ideas, the agency sure seems to be a strange place when you hear stories from those ex CIA types, on a positive note can it ever become as wicked and stupid and insane as the KGB. Perhaps we are entering the weird and new type of unknown, perhaps will get a new european Emperor of war and a Holy-War again across lands and political religious kingdoms and nation states of Europe?

Putin ex-KGB seems to have gone a bit crazy, like one of those NFL Boxer Wrestler guys that goes too insane, took too much steroid and becomes unpredictable.

However I also have to ask - Is Biden mentally with it? Many politicians and business leaders now call for Joe Biden to take cognitive test

The last article or report I read from the CIA claims that China has cloned GMO super soldiers like something from a DC-Marvel comicbook movie. On the interweb, there is a lot of film leaking out there, some might be real some might be fake. It's difficult to verify all stuff but I take anything the Clownshow CIA spook idiots say with a pinch of salt, they are almost as messed up as the KGB. They thought they would bring Western-style democracy to Afghanistan they have been involved in drug running, LSD 'mass mind control' experiments. Then you have Brennan who speaks perfect Arabic, keeps getting into bed with islamists calls mahomet the pedophile terrorist founder of islam beautiful and the Moongod al-Lah wonderful and said Trump was 'nothing short of treasonous'. Former CIA Officer have now spoken out and say the group has become corrupted, maybe Anti-American or almost demonic, it gets involved in politics and Hides BLM and ANTIFA violence but Inflates fear about guys in Red Trump hats White KKK Right-Wing attacks they say is going to blow up America worse than 911 or the Japanese Violence Bomb attacks during WW2. However this war in Ukraine is very real and the people of Ukraine are going to suffer.

Russia doesn't seem to have the founding fathers America had, it seems to have less inspiration people and more Tyrants. Stalin who fought back the Germanic Nazi war machine was another Tyrant. Something gave Putin an impression the Eagle was weak, he thinks he can go for Empire glory like Sviatopolk the Accursed, Nicholas the First, Peter the Great, Catherine the Great, Alexander the Second or maybe Ivan the Terrible? It didn't just start with the mess in Iraq, there is a reason people are turning off the tvs, there is a reason nobody likes the spooky CIA types, why nobody trusts them, not military, not police, not FBI nobody, they did afterall allow Epstein types to blackmail the USA's political elite and have probably been involved with groups like 'The Finders'. The way its all going, Arab Spring, Hamid Karzaim gone, Aung San Suu Kyi changes sides doesn't want anymore Bengali Rohingya Bangladeshi, the Moslim Brotherhood, 'Zelenskyy' the tv show star that was going to save everyone https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6235122/ I'm starting to feel a lot of it is going down beyond that 'Event Horizon' or its starting to circle the drain now. At one I thought the idea of a new Emperor ever coming to Europe, more Crusades and a 'Holy War' impossible but now I'm not so sure. There have also been rumors Putin is starting to use islamics just as Clinton once did. Albania has NATO relations since the 90s so if they were to pick a moslem place on Europe's Eastern fron why not so there, it seems more secular with 10% of people saying they have 'no religion'? There will always be propaganda on many sides after one conflict finishes they move on and the royal banking oligarch war machine moves on to some other issue. For a while the Soviet Empire was dying while we were watching it all on tv in the West, laser guided bombs live on our 24/7 news cycles maybe were programmed to hate the Serbs but the poison, and monsterous ghosts and toxins and pollutants can remain behind many generations. Why not more for Bulgaria or Croatia or Albania with saying 9% 'No Religion' Europe is a cultural and historical mess of many different nations and kingdoms fighting for many years but this 'Kosovo' is why so many Eastern Europeans have almost a hatred of the West, there was no Kosovo they were mostly from places like Turkey and Albania, the wise Clinton admin ignoring history seen the place as an opportunity to distract Clinton–Lewinsky sexual scandal, no doubt Slobodan Milosevik was a dictator and a killer.  However Kosovo regularly burns down other people's temples and churches. A religion that calls mahomet the perfect man and says the Quran or Koran is the perfect book, it is 97.4% Islamism, 97.4% of them pray to that pedophile terrorist prophet named moohammad.

Perhaps Vladimir Putin himself has made the mistake and 'Overreached'

There are some reports out there this war might not be easy for the Russians, some credible reports now say Russian is taking losses in Ukraine. Yet all $80 Billion worth of military weapons left behind for the Taliban terrorists in Afghanistan, it seems Ukraine surely would have benefitted from those weapons.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-02-28 12:21:23)

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#36 2022-03-01 02:50:33

Terraformer
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From: Ceres
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,531
Website

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

If they would sit down and sort this out like the civilised country (Britain), we could avoid all this bloodshed. Draw the maps, have referendums, let people determine their destiny rather than being greedy and insisting on "territorial integrity". The Ukrainians say the existence of the south east republics is a violation of their territorial integrity. But Putin says the existence of Ukraine is a violation of Russian territorial integrity. Why is Ukraine's more important than Russia's? Because the lines were drawn more recently? Seems like it's just a case of picking how things were when the boomers were young and deciding that's the baseline for normality...


"I'm gonna die surrounded by the biggest idiots in the galaxy." - If this forum was a Mars Colony

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#37 2022-03-01 19:05:10

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 25,989

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

The violation starts after the warsaw pact that while Russia had captured these territory with the fighting of the Germans these nations reverted back to what they are now but were sort of influenced to stay under Russia's wing until they became sovereign countries once more.
Putin does not want to recognize any of this...

Currently Poland has lots of Russian aircraft being set to fly back to the Ukraine to shoot down Russian in the same type of vehicles.

of course US is trying to stay out of the fighting but it may not last as long How NATO's Article 5 could pull the US, allies into the Ukraine conflict

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#38 2022-03-02 21:37:17

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 25,989

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

Seems a change of heart as China Holds Talks With Ukraine, Further Edging Away From Russia


Sanctions are hitting hard and wide and so are seizing of property as well German authorities seize $600m yacht of Putin-linked oligarch Alisher Usmanov


Then a surprise in that 'Wanted: Dead or Alive': Russian Tycoon Puts $1M Bounty on Putin's Head for committing war crimes in his invasion of Ukraine.

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#39 2022-03-03 01:25:25

clark
Member
Registered: 2001-09-20
Posts: 6,345

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

Today I helped get medical supplies to Ukraine. What did any of you do?

Pick a side. Do something.

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#40 2022-03-03 03:48:23

Terraformer
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From: Ceres
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,531
Website

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

I am.

I'm trying to demoralise the Ukrainians enough that they accept the reality of their situation before thousands more get killed, and get the West to stop this Go Ye Heroes Go And Die shit.


"I'm gonna die surrounded by the biggest idiots in the galaxy." - If this forum was a Mars Colony

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#41 2022-03-03 06:37:22

Calliban
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From: Northern England, UK
Registered: 2019-08-18
Posts: 1,969

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

I agree with Terraformer.  Ukraine has been taken over by a corrupt cabal of wealthy oligarchs.  The current president is their front man.
https://www.unz.com/article/jewish-subtexts-in-ukraine/

These people have had it in for Russia, ever since Vladimir Putin thwarted their attempts to gain control of the Russian government.  The western hysteria over Russia started at this point.  The Russians refused to bow down and accept control from the 'tribe'.  Likewise, the cold War with the soviet union really got started, only after Stalin purged the soviet ranks of Jews, who had dominated the higher ranks of the Bolshevick party at the time of the October Revolution.
https://davidduke.com/the-attack-on-putin/

The oligarchs that control Western foreign policy have had the policy of expanding NATO east since the 1990s.  The Russians tolerated this until Ukraine's Neocon leaders expressed the intention for Ukraine to become a nuclear weapons state under NATO, on Russia's border.  Unsurprisingly, the Russians were no willing to tolerate this.  It was the western Neocons complete intransigence on this issue, that ultimately made war inevitable.

Now we have a pointless European brother war, in which thousands of Ukrainians and Russians will die and the global economy will probably face a depression, due to the actions of a tiny cabal of wealthy Jewish oligarchs, with a globalist policy that has nothing to do with the best interests of the actual Ukrainians that they rule over.  I hope that the war ends with the minimum casualties on both sides.  I have no interest in seeing Ukrainians or Russians die due to the actions of sociopaths that seem to have gained complete control over the western world.  Of course, the western media will tell you a very different story.  They are owned and controlled by the oligarchs and their minions.
https://davidduke.com/dr-duke-paul-stev … l-mankind/

Unable to bully Russia and China into accepting their will by military force, they will now engineer a new Cold War.  Unfortunately, we live in a very different world to the one that the oligarchs faced in 1945.  Back then the West still had huge reserves of untapped, high EROI fossil fuels.  Today, Western world oil production is in decline.  What remains in shale and tar sands, is expensive to extract.  Coal production is declining.  Natural gas is virtually depleted in Europe and US production is close to peak.  The resources that allowed the West to emerge relatively prosperous from the last cold War no longer exist.  Russia remains a major supplier of oil, gas, coal, food, minerals and timber to the entire world.  Now that the oligarchs have cut them off from the Western financial system, you can expect to see worsening shortages or 'supply chain disruptions' as they are called in the media.
https://ourfiniteworld.com/2022/03/02/r … rld-order/

None of this needed to happen.  But we are pawns of powerful oligarch interest groups, who care more about personal power and control, than they do about our wellbeing.  These people are not Americans, or Britons, or Ukrainians.  They hate us.  And they care nothing for how much we suffer.  The Russians have refrained from cutting European gas and oil supply thus far, apparently out of desire to limit civilian casualties and a hardening of Western public opinion against Russia.  But with the oligarchs having complete control of the Western media, the anti-Russia narrative is proving to be quite effective.  It is entirely possible that Putin will pull the plug on Germany, if NATO weapons start turning up in the hands of Ukrainian rebels.

Last edited by Calliban (2022-03-03 07:25:22)


"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."

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#42 2022-03-03 08:15:36

Terraformer
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From: Ceres
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,531
Website

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

What? No, I'm not saying anything about Russia or Ukraine, so I'm not sure what you're agreeing with. Only that Russia has the upper hand right now, regardless of the rights or wrongs of their invasion, and that the west is cheering on the Ukrainians throwing their lives away trying to stop them. It's getting children killed -- the instant you set them to the task of making Molotovs, they become a lawful military target; shelling civilians who are engaged in the production of weaponry has never been considered a war crime afaik.


"I'm gonna die surrounded by the biggest idiots in the galaxy." - If this forum was a Mars Colony

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#43 2022-03-03 08:28:50

kbd512
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Posts: 5,860

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

I hate to break it to y'all, but if even 10% of the Ukrainian people decide they're going to fight off this Russian invasion, the very best that Russia can hope for is a bloody and protracted insurgency that ties up their military for the next 10 to 20 years.  Vladimir Putin doesn't have another 20 years, although maybe one of his minions will take over.  That is the "reality of the situation".

Russia feels entitled to put their thumb over people who don't accept Russian rule and will never be considered "Russian", because they're Ukrainian.  The reason some of us "have it in" for Russia is their continual string of cross-border raids into their neighbors' lands.  Russian government is filled with modern day Vikings who feel entitled to what other people have.  I would never advocate for antagonizing Russia or Russians, but to this day no western country except Germany has ever invaded Russia.  For some reason, they still feel the need to invade their neighbors.  It would be like America continually raiding Mexican or Canadian homes, and bombing or shelling their major cities.  Why do you think so many Russians are protesting Putin?  They know the man is unhinged and attacking his neighbors without just cause.

If the US invaded the UK, would either of you find it acceptable to demoralize your fellow countrymen into accepting American occupation and rule?

How would you feel about Australians telling UK citizens to "just accept their fate" to avoid more bloodshed?

I think we both already know the answer to those questions.

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#44 2022-03-03 08:58:44

Terraformer
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From: Ceres
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,531
Website

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

Yes, we do. If my dumbass government was trying to get us all killed fighting armed invaders with slingshots, I would be telling everyone to surrender. When someone has a knife to your throat it is not the time for bravado, sa sa? *That* is the reality of the situation. I do not consider the Danes to have done anything wrong by surrendering within hours of being attacked by Nazi Germany -- the fact that they retained civilian government for a few years probably allowed them to save their Jewish population, who would have been slaughtered if they'd been under military rule from the start.

Ukraine is down to children women and old men fighting their battles. This is not a country that is winning. It's not even a country that has fought to a stalemate. They're going to die.


"I'm gonna die surrounded by the biggest idiots in the galaxy." - If this forum was a Mars Colony

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#45 2022-03-03 09:51:53

clark
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Registered: 2001-09-20
Posts: 6,345

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

There you have it folks. Thanks for the posts Terraformer and Calliban.

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#46 2022-03-03 11:22:13

Terraformer
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From: Ceres
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,531
Website

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

It is not dishonourable to surrender when your position is hopeless. It's pretty insulting to all the POWs throughout the various wars to say "well, *I* prefer people who don't get captured; if *I* was there I simply would have won the battle". Perhaps this is a product of America not having fought a war on its own soil for the last century and a half, mixed with a national myth about plucky rebels who won against a superpower (conveniently ignoring the backing of another superpower in their war).


"I'm gonna die surrounded by the biggest idiots in the galaxy." - If this forum was a Mars Colony

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#47 2022-03-03 12:22:59

clark
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Registered: 2001-09-20
Posts: 6,345

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

Ha. Perhaps it is an American naivete that posits free people are right and good to challenge outward naked aggression that would diminish their liberty.

Keep your monarchy. History tells me your English views are wrong.

Post edited to remove the personal insult at the end.  Calling people names is not an argument, clark.  You don't win arguments by personal attacks against others, whether your belief about what they represent is true or not. - kbd512 (Brian)

Last edited by kbd512 (2022-03-03 13:06:04)

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#48 2022-03-03 13:00:53

kbd512
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Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 5,860

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

Terraformer,

People with your attitude towards self-defense are only kept free through the tireless efforts of men and women who value our most cherished principles, namely ones who don't attempt to demoralize free men and women into surrendering to the capricious and violent dictates of ruthless street thugs LARPing as "leaders".  Leaders of what, I ask?  Lemmings marching towards the next cliff?

If everyone had fought back against the nazis back when they were merely a band of rovng street thugs, then millions of dead Europeans and Russians and Americans would have lived out their lives in comparatively much greater peace and prosperity.  There would've been no holocaust period, had that happened, thus no reason to worry about how many Jews the Danes could potentially save from the murderous nazi thugs.  10% of their Jews were murdered anyway, which is 10% too many in my book.

This is why America keeps opposing Russia.  We recognize what they've proven to the world that they're capable of doing to their own people, with or without communism, and why we respond appropriately at all times- by opposing them militarily.  The Soviet Union ceased to exist, but all the same people who came to power and subsequently mass murdered there own people were still "in charge" afterwards.  When China did the same thing in Korea and Viet Nam and Cambodia, we opposed them there as well.  When Iraq did the same thing in Kuwait, guess what those Americans did?

It's almost as if there's a pattern to what we do and why we do it, if you were actually looking for it.  It quite plainly doesn't have anything to do with oil.  This is about stopping destructive ideology from ruining other sovereign nations.  We won't always succeed, but you lose 100% of the battles you never engage in.  For us, that's all it's ever been about.  If you view it through the lens of ideology, then it all makes perfect sense.  The logic is very simple and straightforward when viewed that way.

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#49 2022-03-03 13:14:40

Terraformer
Member
From: Ceres
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,531
Website

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

People with your attitude towards self-defense are only kept free through the tireless efforts of men and women who value our most cherished principles, namely ones who don't attempt to demoralize free men and women into surrendering to the capricious and violent dictates of ruthless street thugs LARPing as "leaders".  Leaders of what, I ask?  Lemmings marching towards the next cliff?

This is a really, really dumb take. I can't believe you think the troops at Dunkirk should have let themselves be slaughtered rather than "running away" (because that's "cowardice" and they're only free because of people who get themselves killed senselessly).

Your country has zero experience of war. Zero. For America, wars are something that happens on other people's soil, against an inferior opponent. The idea of *losing* is alien to you. The idea that people may not want to throw their children's lives away for some ideology is alien to you.


"I'm gonna die surrounded by the biggest idiots in the galaxy." - If this forum was a Mars Colony

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#50 2022-03-03 13:20:33

Calliban
Member
From: Northern England, UK
Registered: 2019-08-18
Posts: 1,969

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

As I explained in Post #41, the situation is not so simple as 'oppressed Ukrainians fighting for freedom against evil Russian invaders'.  The people that run Ukraine at present are basically Israelis, working for other Isrealis in Washington (New World order Neocons).  They couldn't care less how many Ukrainians die in a hopeless battle against Russia.  So they have nothing to lose by egging them on.  They hate Putin and Russia because he booted them out.  The Russians refuse to surrender to their control.  The Neocons will be happy to see Ukraine take enormous losses just to punish Russia for rejecting them.  They are spiteful vandals.  For them Ukraine is not a homeland, it is a business interest and a geopolitical tool.  That does not necessarily imply that the Russians are good guys.  The situation is complicated and there are rights and wrongs on both sides.

Terraformer's point is logical, if not admirable.  Patriotism is driven by love for one's people, not hatred of the other side.  There are occasions where it is better to accept defeat than obstinately face annihilation.  In the case of the Ukrainians, the choice is between being ruled by a bunch of Isreali Neocons or nationalist Russians.  Neither is ideal.  And most of them do not understand who it is that pulls their strings.  How hard would the Ukrainians be prepared to fight, if winning meant being controlled by a bunch or foreign sociopaths, bent on world domination?  It isn't exactly inspiring.  Fortunately for the Neocons, few Ukrainians understand that, as the Neocons own Western media.

PS.  Well done Clarke.  That last post contained a lot of big words.

Last edited by Calliban (2022-03-03 13:27:06)


"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."

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