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#24426 Re: Life support systems » Heliostats on Mars, and other worlds. » 2019-01-22 15:52:30

Void ...

In attempting to find out if the 2 IR to 1 visible photon phenomenon is "real" I asked Mr. Google for assistance.

To my surprise, research from 2014 showed up.  Work done at institutions in the general area is reported:

https://www.nature.com/news/photons-dou … le-1.16459

One discovery is that (apparently) the human eye is capable of performing photon energy translations, although I came away thinking that more work needs to be done to verify the hypothesis described.

(th)

#24427 Re: Life support systems » Heliostats on Mars, and other worlds. » 2019-01-22 14:11:34

For Elderflower,

Thanks for your reminder of Carnot ... I suspect (although am not sure) you brought this up because you might have thought I was proposing the efficiency of a thermoelectric generator might be changed somehow.  I am NOT suggesting any changes to the generator.  It does its thing, which results in waste heat energy currently delivered to the Universe.

However, the generator is one system in a larger system, which is the space craft.

There are many instances of heat generators producing work and delivering waste heat to the environment, much to the delight of those downstream who can and do benefit.  A typical example of beneficiaries are fish living in the warm waters downstream from a power plant, although there are reported to be instances of humans enjoying waste heat from municipal power plants.

In the case of my inquiry, if the 2 IR to 1 visual photon idea is ** real **, then ( I presume ) it could be harnessed to consume some of the waste energy from the thermoelectric generator.

For Void ...

Thank you for developing this idea further.  Since low grade heat sources abound on Earth, and (apparently) elsewhere in the Solar System, a capability of harvesting higher energy from low grade sources ought to be valuable wherever such sources are found.

I am assuming that the efficiency of conversion is NOT 100 percent.  Real world efficiency might be as low as 25%, by the time that four IR photons have been consumed in the process of delivering one high grade photon.   However, given the abundance of volcanic lava flows on Earth, and in selected locations in the Solar System, such low efficiency would not (or in my opinion, should not) impede development of the capability.

(th)

Void wrote:

Various comments.  Interesting.

The potential to join two lower powered photons into one photon of a higher energy level, will require more information to determine it's possible utilities.

While I think the medical uses could be very important in space, I am also interested in the stored power utility that is hinted at;

2 infrared photons > 1 visible photon > Solar Panel.

But I would also be interested in;

2 infrared photons > 1 visible photon > photosynthesis.

One of the values of such a process is that you could perhaps store heat at a lower temperature, and yet then somewhat be able to release the energy on demand, (Perhaps), to stimulate the production of electricity and/or photosynthesis.  This might allow you to control the lengths of the days that plants would experience.

But at this point, much more needs to be learned.
...
Done.

#24428 Re: Life support systems » Heliostats on Mars, and other worlds. » 2019-01-21 19:52:11

Void,

Upon reading the article you found a second time, I note that the investigators were primarily interested in helping to destroy cancer cells while avoiding damage to healthy cells.  I gather that their notes about other applications are secondary for their mission.

However, I am hoping my interpretation may have merit, and invite others on the forum to provide their insights.

Thermoelectric devices are in use to generate electricity given a source of heat and availability of a heat sink.  The greater the difference of temperature, between the heat source and the heat sink, the greater the current which can be caused to flow.   In space, a method of releasing thermal energy from a vehicle is radiation in infrared wavelengths.

The system described in the paper you found appears to use a chemical process to accept low energy IR photons as input, and to (somehow) cause a higher energy photon of visible light to be generated.

The efficiency of this process would (probably) not be a concern in the treatment of cancer.  Any infrared radiation not consumed by the conversion system would (presumably) spend itself in gentle heating of tissue.

However, for a space energy capture situation, the efficiency of the process would be of interest.

Never-the-less, it would seem (to me at least) worth investigating the possibility that the system efficiency of a thermoelectric power generator might be increased by capturing waste heat in the form of infrared radiation, converting it to visible light, and then capturing THAT light with photovoltaic cells.

(th)

Void wrote:

SpaceNut curiously, this has appeared, and just might fit into some Mars purpose.
https://phys.org/news/2019-01-scientist … rared.html
Quote:

Their approach, known as triplet fusion upconversion, involves a chain of processes that essentially fuses two infrared photons into a single visible light photon. Most technologies only capture visible light, meaning the rest of the solar spectrum goes to waste. Triplet fusion upconversion can harvest low-energy infrared light and convert it to light that is then absorbed by the solar panels.
Done.

#24429 Re: Civilization and Culture » Holidays » 2019-01-20 15:30:26

For RobertDyck ... Thanks for the course correction!  It was clearly needed. (th)

RobertDyck wrote:

This thread was started to talk about holidays, not a calendar.
...
Mars will have it's own holidays. Yes, one problem is calendar based holidays don't fit on a planet with radically different length of year and seasons. That's how this became a calendar discussion.

The daily calendar update was moved to an already existing topic.

Edit#1 on 2020/11/16:

Checklist for Daily Mars Calendar update

1) Open 82 for edit, using Search for s e a r c h t e r m: and :t o d a y o n m a r s by tahanson43206
2) Update field: Today on Earth:
3) Update field: Today on Mars:
4) Update One day note:
5) Copy Longitude and Sol from current line to previous line
6) Update Longitude and Sol # using web site: Convert Earth Date to Martian Solar Longitude
7) Advance to line: Sol ### is in Month ## ... update this line as needed
8) Advance to Month ## line ... update this line as needed
9) Advance to Sol ### is aaaaaaaa ... update this line as needed
10) Advance to current month array to verify day of the week
11) Return to Star/Galaxy section ... Open theskylive.com to Mars
12) Update Star/Galaxy section as needed
13) Return to Distance of Mars section and update as needed
14) Delete oldest Distance of Mars line
15) Select text for next daily post and copy
16) Save 82
17) locate yesterday's daily post
18) Post new daily
19) Confirm
20) Log out


(th)

#24430 Re: Civilization and Culture » Holidays » 2019-01-20 12:30:12

Updates of this post have moved offline, due to Internal Server Errors on the FluxBB server at newmars.com

SearchTerm:TodayOnMars
SearchTerm:CalendarForMars

Today on Mars: 0037/02/23 Monday <<-- Days of the week offset 4 with Earth.  (count from Mars to Earth (updated 2022/12/24))

Today on Earth: 2023/02/17 Friday (Earth Date) Post Title: Today on Mars   [Perihelion occurred June 20, 2022 Earth Calendar]

Per http://www-mars.lmd.jussieu.fr/mars/tim … _time.html also see: in-the-sky.org for opposition/perigee/aphelion

Martian Year: 37  Martian Astronomical Month in 12 month format: 1 <<== The Astronomical month will increment when longitude reaches 30 degrees

Solar Longitude: 025.1 Sol Number: 051  Change in degrees is +.4 Julian date is: J0037051
Solar Longitude: 024.7 Sol Number: 050  Change in degrees is +.5 Julian date is: J0037050
Solar Longitude: 024.2 Sol Number: 049  Change in degrees is +.5 Julian date is: J0037049 << Skip Day on Mars

Note that Solar Longitude measurement varies as a function of location in orbit.  Ls 0 is the moment when the Sun appears to transit from one hemisphere to the other.  Update from Mars.NASA.gov (The Sun crosses the equator of Mars (Vernal Equinox)). The transition itself is a function of the tilt of an object with respect to the Solar plane. Per squarewidget.com, Hipparchus created the celestial coordinate system we use today.

Note#2: https://theskylive.com/mars-tracker  This web site shows the astronomical position of Mars as seen from Earth
Todo: At next Aphelion/Perihelion record the Mars data J00##### (and set Search term)
Perihelion occurred at Ls 251 on Sol 485 - Earth Date 2022/06/21 Next: (estimated) 2024/05/08
Perihelion occurred at Ls 253 on Sol 485  Earth Date 2020/08/03  Earlier:  2018/09/16, 2016/10/29
Aphelion occurred at--- Ls 071 on Sol 152.  Aphelion Earth Dates: Earlier: 2017/10/07, 2015/11/20
Aphelion occurred near Ls 070 on Sol 153 (per www.planetary.org)

Note#3: The computations below are dependent upon both the computations provided by the reference web site and by accuracy of recording of the time of observations.  The calculations use tenths of hours.  The Sun Distance needs to be captured at the moment the time increments to a given tenth.

Note on data below: The figure quoted after distance is a rate of progress along the orbital path [exact meaning to be determined]
Minus prefix means Mars is approaching the Sun.  Plus prefix means Mars is moving away from the Sun.
The figure computed to the right of "Difference" is the rate of change of the distance to Sun. Increasing to Aphelion/Decreasing to Perihelion.

===
Distance: Mars >> Sun per theskylive.com:   241,603,473 km [22.7 km/s] Difference is +141633 <= 5901 km/hour at 08.0 on 02/16 (time 8:00) <<== 24.0 hours
Distance: Mars >> Sun per theskylive.com:   241,461,840 km [22.7 km/s] Difference is +142407 <= 5934 km/hour at 08.0 on 02/15 (time 8:00) <<== 24.0 hours
Distance: Mars >> Sun per theskylive.com:   241,319,433 km [22.8 km/s] Difference is +143573 <= 5982 km/hour at 08.0 on 02/14 (time 8:00) <<== 24.0 hours
===

Observation: The sky view is ** filled ** with objects and very few have been recorded and given identification by humans or their robot assistants
And! ** All ** the location assignments are from the perspective of Earth.  The entire catalog needs to be adjusted when inter-stellar travel begins
The work that lies ahead for the astronomical community is daunting - there is work ahead for centuries
2022/01/19 - All current (existing) stellar catalogs are computed with reference to the Earth.  Another civilization would use it's planet as reference.
Perhaps a Milky Way frame of reference will become necessary at some point. The Earth is as good a Zero point as any, for humans.

=== Mars is in Regular Movement as seen from Earth. Mars is progressing from right to left in the view from Earth.
Next up: Galaxy below path PGC 1716903 RA 04h 51m 08.4s Day 0 at far left
TYC 1835-734-1 Mg 11.19 RA 04h 49m 50.1s below path Day 0 - far left - Day 1 - under 10 hour marker
Star HIP 22334 Mg  8.22 RA 04h 44m 35.2s Far below path Day 0 at far left of view - Day 2 just ahead of Mars
=== 

Zoom Out Capability As a general observation ... I've become increasingly interested in knowing what the larger view of the sky might be like.
The site: theskylive.com does a terrific job of matching the view from Earth towards Mars, against a background of actual astronomical plates.
I wish there were a way (or rather, I wish I ** knew ** about a way that may exist) to enlarge the view until the entire galaxy is in view (Zoom out)
Update 2022/12/08 TheSkyLive.com provides a large view of selected objects: Select [Major Bodies] Then select [Information] in the body of interest
Update 2022/12/08 Scroll down to (body) Position and Finder Charts. Field of view is 50x30 degrees.

Note: The curve of the path of Mars as seen against the background of stars is now a line heading straight to the left at a slight upward angle.
As of 2023/01/11, the curve of the path has returned to regular movement to the left border

===
Earth Distance 2022/02/15 151,428,888 (increasing)
Earth Distance 2022/02/14 150,016,037 (increasing)
Earth Distance 2022/02/13 148,566,480 (increasing)
===

Mars and Earth are moving apart after Opposition.  The two planets were on opposite sides of the Sun at Earth Distance maximum October 2021.
Mars and Earth were in Opposition (Earth center)  in December of 2022.  The date coincided with a (very rare) occultation of Mars by the Moon.
Mars and Earth appear to have been as close as they will get in this cycle. 81,454,323 kilometers on J0036644 Time: 4.53 minutes - 9 minutes round trip

Light travel in one second is (about) 300,000 kilometers. The distance covered in one minute is about 18,000,000 kilometers.
Estimated light times: 1:18, 2:36, 3:54, 4:72, 5:90, 6:108, 7:126, 8:144, 9:162, 10:180, 11:198,12:216, 13:234, 14:252, 15:270, 16:288, 17:306
Light travel time today is between 8 and 9 minutes. Communications delay would be 16+ minutes round trip.

In his online interview with Dr. Zubrin at the 2020 Mars Conference, Elon Musk reminded the audience that communications with Mars will necessarily include an intermediary station to handle traffic when the Sun is between Mars and Earth.  Communications delays in that circumstance will increase due to the extra distance to be covered.  Mr. Musk indicated he expects such communication will be handled by laser.  Location would be optimum at poles of solar plane.

Regular movement of Mars as seen from Earth resumed as of 2023/01/13. RA is once again increasing.
According to www.hercampus.com, Retrograde movement began October 30, 2022.
The online solar system display at the link below shows clearly how the Mars movement will occur in months ahead.

This web site offers an online model of the solar system: www.solarsystemscope.com  It requires Chrome 57, Firefox 52 or Safari 10.1. Viewed 2022/10/13: Opposition will occur some time in December of 2022.  Per earthsky.org, the date is December 8, 2022.

This web site offers an online orrery view of the Solar System: https://www.theplanetstoday.com/

===

Sol 049 is in Month 02 of a Proposed 24 month calendar. See Post 19 of Holidays topic for a summary.
Month  02 extends from Sol 029 through 056. See post 82 of Holidays topic for current details. <<== There are 28 days in Month 02
Direct path to source: http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 57#p154257
Sol 049 is Saturday  in the Proposed Business calendar for Mars.  Sol 012 was a skip day on Earth. Year 37 Sol 49 is next expected skip day.

---

The Next New Year's on Mars will occur when Solar Longitude reaches 360 degrees. <<== The current year on Mars is 37
Per www.planetary.org Year 36 started 2021/02/07 on Earth. Mars Year 37 began 2022/12/27 on Earth.

The last Skip Day occurred  February 15, 2023 on Earth. A Skip Day occurs when the longer Mars Sol accumulates 24 Earth hours.
The next Skip day is expected March 24, 2023 (range 15th >> 17th) on Earth.  The next re-alignment will occur near: June 23, 2023

For those who may not be following this proposed calendar closely, there exists a "feature" I had not anticipated.
Days of the week fall behind Earth due to the longer Sol, but they gain when Friday is omitted at the end of a Quarter
337 Earth days were observed to elapse in the 2020 weekday cycle. There were 7 week day transitions and 2 Quarter ends.
The next cycle began on the first Sol of the period of coincidence. The  alignment of weekdays interval is in the range: (310 - 337)
To find the first day of a period of coincidence: Set up: SearchTerm(colon) and (colon)Alignment and J0036*
Refinements of the search include: Author: tahanson43206 Topic: Martian Politics and Economy (Specify Posts instead of Topics)

For current weather on Mars see:

   ***https://mars.nasa.gov/insight/weather/***
   ***Insight's weather info has been suspended and now is directing to msl*** <<-- Insight's mission is over (2022)

https://mars.nasa.gov/msl/weather/

Per SpaceNut: Here is another web page by NASA containing the latest news releases

https://mars.nasa.gov/news/?page=0&per_ … ope=Latest

All forum members are invited to post significant events for this day.
Events of interest will be ON Mars, or relate to Mars. Examples are launches, landings, discoveries

Standard Month in Mars Business Calendar
Su    Mo    Tu    We    Th    Fr    Sa
1       2      3      4      5      6      7
8       9    10     11    12    13    14
15    16    17     18    19    20    21
22    23    24     25    26    27    28

Recruiting text may be found at the bottom of this post:  http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 57#p154257

Month 2 of 24: Month 2 of Quarter 1 Year 36  (This month has 28 Sols)

Day-of-Week  1     8    15   22
Sunday        29   36   43    50
Monday       30    37   44   51
Tuesday      31    38   45    52
Wednesday  32    39   46   53
Thursday      33   40    47   54
Friday           34   41     48   55 Friday is skipped last month of quarter
Saturday      35   42     49   56 (This month has 28 Sols)

Month 1 of 24: First month of Quarter 1 and first month of Mars Year 37

Day-of-Week  1     8    15   22
Sunday           1     8    15    22 
Monday          2     9    16    23
Tuesday         3   10    17    24
Wednesday   4   11    18    25
Thursday        5   12    19    26
Friday             6    13    20    27 Friday is skipped last month of quarter
Saturday        7    14    21    28  (This month has 28 Sols)

Month 24 of 24: Last month of Quarter 4 and Last month of Mars year

Day-of-Week  1     8    15   22  (This month has 27 Sols)
Sunday         642 649 656 663
Monday        643 650 657 664
Tuesday       644 651 658 665
Wednesday  645 652 659 666
Thursday      646 653 660 667
Friday           647 654 661 <<== Skipping Friday because Last Week of Quarter 4
Saturday      648 655 662 668 <<== This day will be extended in length to complete the year

Month 23 of 24: <<== Fifth month of Quarter 4

Day-of-Week  1     8    15   22
Sunday         614 621 628 635
Monday        615 622 629 636
Tuesday       616 623 630 637
Wednesday  617 624 631 638
Thursday      618 625 632 639
Friday          619 626 633 640
Saturday      620 627 634 641 <<== there are 28 days in Month 23

Month 22 of 24: <<== Fourth month of Quarter 4

Day-of-Week  1     8    15   22
Sunday        586 593 600 607
Monday       587 594 601 608
Tuesday      588 595 602 609
Wednesday 589 596 603 610
Thursday     590 597 604 611
Friday         591 598 605 612
Saturday     592 599 606 613 <<== there are 28 days in Month 22

Month 21 of 24: <<== Third month of Quarter 4

Day-of-Week  1     8    15   22
Sunday        558 565 572 579
Monday       559 566 573 580
Tuesday      560 567 574 581
Wednesday 561 568 575 582
Thursday     562 569 576 583
Friday         563 570 577 584
Saturday     564 571 578 585 <<28 days in Month 21

Month 20 of 24: <<== Second month of Quarter 4

Day-of-Week  1     8    15   22
Sunday        530 537 544 551
Monday        531 538 545 552
Tuesday       532 539 546 553
Wednesday  533 540 547 554
Thursday      534 541 548 555
Friday          535 542 549 556 <<== Skip Day in Year 35
Saturday      536 543 550 557 <<== 28 days in Month 20

Month 19 of 24: <<== First month of Quarter 4

Day-of-Week  1     8    15   22
Sunday         502 509 516 523
Monday        503 510 517 524
Tuesday       504 511 518 525
Wednesday   505 512 519 526
Thursday      506 513 520 527
Friday          507 514 521 528
Saturday      508 515 522 529 <<== 28 days in Month 19

Month 18 of 24: Last month of Quarter 3 << There are 27 days in Month 18 <<== Proposed name: Perihelion

Day-of-Week  1     8    15   22
Sunday          475 482 489 496
Monday         476 483 490 497
Tuesday        477 484 491 498
Wednesday  478 485 492 499
Thursday      479 486 493 500
Friday            480 487 494       <<== Skipped Friday in Last month of Quarter
Saturday       481 488 495 501

Month 17 of 24: << There are 28 days in Month 17. Fifth month of Q3

Day-of-Week  1     8    15   22
Sunday          447 454 461 468
Monday         448 455 462 469
Tuesday        449 456 463 470
Wednesday  450 457 464 471
Thursday      451 458 465 472
Friday           452 459 466 473
Saturday      453 460 467 474

Month 16 of 24: Fourth month of the 3rd Quarter and Second Half

Day-of-Week  1     8    15   22
Sunday         419 426 433 440
Monday        420 427 434 441
Tuesday       421 428 435 442
Wednesday  422 429 436 443
Thursday      423 430 437 444
Friday           424 431 438 445
Saturday      425 432 439 446

Month 15 of 24: Third month of the 3rd Quarter and Second Half

Day-of-Week  1     8    15   22
Sunday         391 398 405 412
Monday        392 399 406 413
Tuesday       393 400 407 414
Wednesday  394 401 408 415
Thursday      395 402 409 416
Friday           396 403 410 417
Saturday      397 404 411 418

Month 14 of 24: Second month of the 3rd Quarter and 2nd Half

Day-of-Week  1     8    15   22
Sunday         363 370 377 384
Monday        364 371 378 385
Tuesday       365 372 379 386
Wednesday  366 373 380 387
Thursday      367 374 381 388
Friday           368 375 382 389
Saturday      369 376 383 390

Month 13 of 24: This is the first month of the 3rd Quarter and 2nd Half

Day-of-Week  1     8    15   22
Sunday         335 342 349 356
Monday        336 343 350 357
Tuesday       337 344 351 358
Wednesday  338 345 352 359
Thursday      339 346 353 360
Friday           340 347 354 361
Saturday      341 348 355 362

Month 12 of 24: This is the last month of the Second Quarter. (27 Sols)

Day-of-Week  1     8    15   22
Sunday         308 315 322 329
Monday        309 316 323 330
Tuesday       310 317 324 331
Wednesday  311 318 325 332
Thursday      312 319 326 333
Friday           313 320 327 <<==skip Friday due to end of Quarter
Saturday      314 321 328 334

Month 11 of 24: Quarter 2 of 4 [Months 7-12] (This month has 28 Sols)

Day-of-Week  1     8    15   22
Sunday         280 287 294 301
Monday        281 288 295 302
Tuesday       282 289 296 303
Wednesday  283 290 297 304
Thursday      284 291 298 305
Friday           285 292 299 306
Saturday      286 293 300 307

Month 10 of 24: - Quarter 2 of 4 [Months 7-12] (This month has 28 Sols)

Day-of-Week  1     8    15   22
Sunday         252 259 266 273
Monday        253 260 267 274
Tuesday       254 261 268 275
Wednesday  255 262 269 276
Thursday      256 263 270 277
Friday           257 264 271 278
Saturday      258 265 272 279

Month 9 of 24: - Quarter 2 of 4 [Months 7-12] (This month has 28 Sols)

Day-of-Week  1     8    15   22
Sunday         224 231 238 245
Monday        225 232 239 246
Tuesday       226 233 240 247
Wednesday  227 234 241 248
Thursday      228 235 242 249
Friday           229 236 243 250
Saturday      230 237 244 251

Month 8 of 24: - Quarter 2 of 4 [Months 7-12] (This month has 28 Sols)

Day-of-Week  1     8    15   22
Sunday        196 203 210 217
Monday        197 204 211 218
Tuesday       198 205 212 219
Wednesday   199 206 213 220
Thursday      200 207 214 221
Friday          201 208 215 222
Saturday      202 209 216 223

Month 7 of 24: - Quarter 2 of 4 [Month 7-12] (This month has 28 Sols)

Day-of-Week  1     8    15   22
Sunday        168  175   182  189
Monday        169  176   183  190
Tuesday       170  177   184  191
Wednesday   171  178  185  192
Thursday      172   179  186  193 <<== skip day 2021
Friday          173   180  187  194
Saturday      174   181  188  195

Month 6 of 24 - Quarter 1 of 4 [Month 1-6]  (This month has 27 Sols)

Day-of-Week   1     8    15   22
Sunday         141   148  155  162
Monday        142   149  156  163
Tuesday       143   150  157  164
Wednesday   144   151  158  165
Thursday      145    152  159  166
Friday          146    153  160         <<== skipped Friday in last week of a quarter
Saturday      147    154  161  167

Month 5 of 24 - Quarter 1 of 4 [Month 1-6] (This month has 28 Sols) << Proposed name: Aphelion

Day-of-Week  1      8     15   22
Sunday        113   120  127 134
Monday        114   121  128 135
Tuesday       115   122  129 136
Wednesday   116  123  130 137
Thursday     117    124  131 138
Friday          118    125  132 139
Saturday      119    126  133 140

Month 4 of 24 Quarter 1 of 4 [Month 1-6] (This month has 28 Sols)

Day-of-Week  1     8    15   22
Sunday         85 92  99 106
Monday        86 93 100 107
Tuesday       87 94 101 108
Wednesday  88 95 102 109
Thursday      89 96 103 110
Friday           90 97 104 111
Saturday       91 98 105 112 << 28*4 >> 32+80

Month 3 of 24  Quarter 1 of 4 (This month has 28 Sols)

Day-of-Week  1    8   15   22
Sunday        57  64   71   78
Monday       58   65   72  79
Tuesday      59   66   73  80
Wednesday 60   67   74  81
Thursday     61   68   75  82
Friday          62   69   76  83
Saturday      63   70   77  84 << 28*3 >> 24+60

Update 2022/12/28 .... The first Sol of Year 37 will be J0037001
Update 2022/08/31 .... The first Sol of the current series was J0035001
The date of the post is 2019/03/25 1255 days have elapsed
687 days from 2019/03/25 would have been: February 9, 2021
Search terms are set up: J0035001 J0036001 and J0035668
The end of Mars year 36 is expected December 28, 2022 on Earth
This date will mark two complete orbits of Mars observed by NewMars forum 

The Earth weekday and the Mars weekday synchronize every 36*7 Earth days (252)

Mars Calendar Spreadsheet: Summary for One Mars Year
Plan: 24 months of 28 days each less 1 day per quarter
      and an extended day on New Year's Eve                       
Month Days  Sum  First Day Last Day Quarter
1        28    28    1    28    1
2        28    56    29    56   
3        28    84    57    84   
4        28    112    85    112   
5        28    140    113    140   
6        27    167    141    167   
7        28    195    168    195    2
8        28    223    196    223   
9        28    251    224    251   
10        28    279    252    279   
11        28    307    280    307   
12        27    334    308    334   
13        28    362    335    362    3
14        28    390    363    390   
15        28    418    391    418   
16        28    446    419    446   
17        28    474    447    474   
18        27    501    475    501   
19        28    529    502    529    4
20        28    557    530    557   
21        28    585    558    585   
22        28    613    586    613   
23        28    641    614    641   
24        27    668    642    668   

Candidate names for month 1 are: Asimov (biographical) Aquarius (Zodiac) Aries (Zodiac)
Candidate names for month 2 are:  Bradbury and Burroughs; Barsoom (created by Burroughs)

Note: There is at least one alternative 24 month calendar published on the Internet, and it includes name suggestions.

Perihelion occurred on 2020/08/03 (Earth Calendar) as predicted.
Retrograde movement began Sol 613 2022/10/30 as predicted J0036613

Edit 2020/07/24:

August 3, 2020 (on Earth)
Mars' perihelion is a once-in-two-Earth-years event. Mars came to perihelion last on October 29, 2016. Its next perihelion will be August 3, 2020. None of the planets have exactly circular orbits, but most, like Earth, have orbits around the sun that are nearly circular. Sep 16, 2018
From: earthsky.org › mars-perihelion-closest-to-sun

From Google search: A Martian Sol lasts 24 Earth hours, 39 Earth minutes and 35.244 Earth Seconds.
Given 24 hours in an Earth day, and 60 Earth minutes in an Earth hour, a "skip day" will occur every 36.9+ Earth days.
1440 minutes divided by 39 is 36.9  To estimate skip day, use 37 days in date calculator. Note occasional 38 day difference.

Note that the Martian Sol will repeat in this report every 36+ (Days or Sols – not sure)

Repeat occurred on Earth day 2019/03/20  (Sol 11) [Sunday=Sunday] Next occurrence ** should ** be (near) 2019/04/04
Repeat occurred on Earth day 2019/05/11 (Sol 47) The next occurrence ** should ** be (near) 2019/06/15 (actual 6/16)
Repeat occurred on Earth day 2019/06/16 (Sol 83)  The next occurrence ** should** be (near) 2019/07/20 (actual 7/25)
Repeat occurred on Earth day 2019/07/25 (Sol 120) the next occurrence ** should ** be (near) 2019/08/30 (actual 8/31)
Repeat occurred on Earth day 2019/08/31 (Sol 156) the next occurrence ** should ** be (near) 2019/10/06  (actual 10/07)
Repeat occurred on Earth day 2019/10/07 (Sol 192) the next occurrence ** should ** be (near) 2019/11/12 (actual 11/14)
Repeat occurred on Earth day 2019/11/14 (Sol 229) the next occurrence ** should ** be (near) 2019/12/22 (actual 12/21)
Repeat occurred on Earth day 2019/12/21 (Sol 265) Days of Week are aligned      ** be (near) 2020/01/27 (actual 01/27)
Repeat occurred on Earth day 2020/01/27 (Sol 302) the next occurrence ** should ** be (near) 2020/03/04 (actual 03/05)
Repeat occurred on Earth day 2020/03/05 (Sol 338) the next occurrence ** should ** be (near) 2020/04/11 (actual 04/11)
Repeat occurred on Earth day 2020/04/11 (Sol 374) the next occurrence ** should ** be (near) 2020/05/17 (actual 05/19) 38 days
Repeat occurred on Earth day 2020/05/19 (Sol 411) the next occurrence ** should ** be (near) 2020/06/26 (actual 06/25) 37 days
Repeat occurred on Earth day 2020/06/25 (Sol 447) the next occurrence ** should ** be (near) 2020/08/01 (actual 08/01) 37 days
Repeat occurred on Earth day 2020/08/01 (Sol 483) the next occurrence ** should ** be (near) 2020/09/07 (actual 09/08) 38 days
Repeat occurred on Earth day 2020/09/08 (Sol 520) the next occurrence ** should ** be (near) 2020/10/15 (actual 10/15) 37 days
Repeat occurred on Earth day 2020/10/15 (Sol 556) the next occurrence ** should ** be (near) 2020/11/21 (actual 11/22) 38 days
Repeat occurred on Earth day 2020/11/22 (Sol 593) Days of Week are aligned    ** be (near) 2020/12/29 (actual 12/30) 39 days
Repeat occurred on Earth day 2020/12/30 (Sol 630) the next occurrence ** should ** be (near) 2021/02/05 (actual 02/04) 36 days
Repeat occurred on Earth day 2021/02/04 (Sol 665) the next occurrence ** should ** be (near) 2021/03/15 (actual 02/19) 15 days
### The transition from Mars year 35 to 36 occurred on February 7, 2021 Earth time. A new skip day schedule started.
Repeat occurred on Earth day 2021/03/30 (Sol 049) the next occurrence ** should ** be (near) 2021/03/15 (actual 03/30) 39 days
Repeat occurred on Earth day 2021/03/30 (Sol 049) the next occurrence ** should ** be (near) 2021/05/06 (actual 05/05) 36 days
Repeat occurred on Earth day 2021/05/05 (Sol 084) the next occurrence ** should ** be (near) 2021/06/10 (actual 06/11) 37 days
Repeat occurred on Earth day 2021/06/11 (Sol 120) the next occurrence ** should ** be (near) 2021/07/21 (actual 07/21) 40 days
Repeat occurred on Earth day 2021/07/21 (Sol 159) the next occurrence ** should ** be (near) 2021/08/27 (actual 08/25) 35 days
Repeat occurred on Earth day 2021/08/25 (Sol 163) the next occurrence ** should ** be (near) 2021/09/02 (actual mm/dd) ## days
Postings were missed between 8/25 and 12/15
Repeat occurred on Earth day 2021/12/15 (Sol 302) the next occurrence ** should ** be (near) 2022/01/21 (actual 01/22) 38 days
Repeat occurred on Earth day 2022/01/22 (Sol 339) the next occurrence ** should ** be (near) 2022/02/28 (actual 02/28) 37 days
Repeat occurred on Earth day 2022/02/28 (Sol 375) the next occurrence ** should ** be (near) 2022/04/07 (actual 04/06) 37 days
Repeat occurred on Earth day 2022/04/06 (Sol 411) the next occurrence ** should ** be (near) 2022/05/13 (actual mm/dd) ## days
Posting was missed for Sol 448
Repeat occurred on Earth day 2022/06/20 (Sol 484) the next occurrence ** should ** be (near) 2022/07/27 (actual mm/dd) ## days
Posting was missed
Repeat occurred on Earth day 2022/10/10 (Sol 593) the next occurrence ** should ** be (near) 2022/11/16 (actual 11/17) ## days
Repeat occurred on Earth day 2022/11/17 (Sol 630) the next occurrence ** should ** be (near) 2022/12/24 (actual 12/24) ## days
Repeat occurred on Earth day 2022/12/24 (Sol 666) the next occurrence ** should ** be (near) 2023/01/17 (actual 01/08) 15 days
Transition from Mars Year 36 to 37 caused another adjustment of the skip day at theskylive.com
Repeat occurred on Earth day 2023/01/08 (Sol 012) the next occurrence ** should ** be (near) 2023/02/14 (actual 02/15) 38 days
Repeat occurred on Earth day 2023/02/15 (Sol 049) the next occurrence ** should ** be (near) 2023/03/24 (actual mm/dd) ## days

1440 minutes in Terran day / 39 minutes longer on Mars >> 37 and change

The recruiting text below will no longer be included in the day post, as of 2020/03/17

The topic My Hacienda is set up to encourage up to 2750 forum members to build a virtual community.
Each participant "claims" a square kilometer of surface, and shares below surface with the community.
Each Hacienda is a participant in the economy of a thriving interdependent free market.
Each Hacienda provides at least one product or service, and multiple products or services are welcome.

As of this Sol, the number of plots established in Sagan City (2018) is: > 1 (inventory pending) [Thanks to everyone who registered!]

Recruiting Announcement: People are needed to participate in the Sagan City (2018) Virtual Community

The concept is to imagine life on Mars at the level of current 1st Tier civilization on Earth.  This community is assumed well past startup phases.

The objective is to gain a clear understanding of the operation of market forces in a community of 2750 plots.  Community members have needs.

The market is there to meet those needs.  The first step is to identify the needs.

I'd like to thank the members of the Mars Society whose financial support allows the NewMars forum database to flourish.

Recruiting Section for NewMars Forum:

Several initiatives are underway, and opportunities exist for volunteers with appropriate education, skills, talent, motivation and generosity of spirit:

1) kbd512 recently initiated a proposal to launch a vehicle from Earth using US Navy style electromagnetic acceleration
The discussion is progressing after moving from Human Systems to Science and Technology
  kbd512 is holding to the position that the launch should deliver velocity of Mach 5 or 6 at the surface of the Earth
2) Calliban has been working for some time on an outreach goal of capturing/mining an asteroid. Recent activity includes cocoon wrapping.
There are a number of possible approaches to the challenge of wrapping an asteroid in basalt thread.
3) Calliban has also proposed the use of electromagnetic acceleration of mass from the Moon. This is NOT the Gerard O'Neill mass launcher.
  There may be some overlap for a Moon launcher with discussion of an Earth based launcher. Both would use sled based launch vehicles.

[Synchronization of Week days]

37 * 7 is 259.  However, 687/4 is 171+, so at least one End of Quarter will occur during a given rotation of Week Days.

The effect of an End of Quarter event in the proposed Mars Calendar is to increase the effective count of Earth days between Synchronization events to:

Note: the above statement could be incorrect.  Verification is needed.

37*8 or 296 days between Synchronization events if there is only one End of Quarter during a rotation of week days.

However, ** two ** End of Quarter events can occur in a given rotation of Week Days, so the total elapsed count could reach 37*9, or 333

[/Synchronization of Week days]

[Automation of Preparation of Today on Mars]

Automation of the process of creating the daily report "Today on Mars" is possible, but it will require development of capabilities in software not currently available to NewMars.com/forums.  The process of creating the daily post includes updating the primary post (this one #82) and that involves performing two lookups of reference web sites.  The daily post is then prepared by performing a copy and paste operation, using text from the primary post and inserting it into a new empty post in the Today on Mars series.

The French reference web site provides the four data points that are at the heart of the report ... the Sol number on Mars, location in it's orbit, and the Year

The Sky Live web site provides precise Sun Distance, Earth Distance and precise location information as seen from Earth.

An automation would be able to collect the data from the two web sites and blend it into the Primary Today on Mars record, and then create the extract for the daily post itself.  That would be a nice piece of work.

Edit_20210327: The process of automation of the preparation of TodayOnMars begins earlier than reported in the opening summary above. The first step is to establish a connection to the NewMars server.  The procedure to do that is well established, but it requires adding functionality called Oauth, which is a way to connect to an online resource without storing the logon password in the application.

After that, the first step is to find the record to be updated (ie, this post #82 in the Holidays topic)

Details to be added; specific lines in Post #82 that are modified each day.

Update daily:
Today on Mars: 0036/02/18 Wednesday <<-- Days of the week are not in alignment with Earth. 
Update daily:
Today on Earth: 2021/03/26 Friday (Earth Date) Post Title: Today on Mars   [Perihelion occurred August 3, 2020 Earth Calendar]
Check daily - update every astronomical month
Martian Year: 36  Martian Month in 1 month format: 1 <<== The Astronomical month will increment when longitude reaches 30 degrees
Update daily:
Solar Longitude: 022.3  Sol Number: 46  Change in degrees is +.4
Previous SL:      021.9  Previous Sol: 45
Update daily:
Distance: Mars >> Sun per theskylive.com:   240,864,478 km [22.8 km/s] Difference is +140694 <= 6117 km/hour at 7.5 on 03/26 (time:7:30)
Distance: Mars >> Sun per theskylive.com:   240,723,784 km [22.8 km/s] Difference is +144725 <= 6159 km/hour at 8.5 on 03/25 (time:8:30)
Distance: Mars >> Sun per theskylive.com:   240,579,059 km [22.8 km/s] Difference is +151936 <= 6201 km/hour at 9.0 on 03/24 (time:9:00)
Update daily:
Next up: Star TYC 1831-1062-1 Magnitude 9.66 above path Day 0 about 10 hours ahead
Next up: Galaxy PGC 1696189 RA 4h 45m 41.8s above path Day 0 about 6 hours ahead
TYC 1830-1893-1 Magnitude 11.86 Day 1 above and about 8 hours behind - likely last day for 1893
Bright TYC 1830-2110-1 Magnitude 9.55 Above path Day 1 - at edge of view - last day for 2110
Update daily:
However, in recent days, the curve has been slowly bending down toward horizontal.  Earth Distance at last update (here) was km 255,818,745
Update at minute delay changes:
Light travel time today is between 14 and 15 minutes. Communications delay would be 28+ minutes round trip. [14:252,000,000] [15:270,000,000]
Update daily:
Sol 046 is in Month 02 of a Proposed 24 month calendar. See Post 19 of Holidays topic for a summary.
Check daily, update monthly:
Month 02 extends from Sol 029 through 56. See post 82 of Holidays topic for current details. <<== There are 28 days in Month 01
Update daily:
Sol 046 is Wednesday  in the Proposed calendar for Mars.  <<== Skip day occurred February 4, 2021 on Earth and again on February 11, 2021
Check daily, update annually.
The Next New Year's on Mars will occur when Solar Longitude reaches 360 degrees. <<== The current year on Mars is 36
Per www.planetary.org this occurred February 7, 2021 (on Earth). The new Mars Year is 36.

This section is to record special calendar events:
Alignment J00360907 0036/09/07  Saturday <<-- Days of the week are ** IN ** alignment with Earth.  << Today is a Skip Day on Mars

[/Automation of Preparation of Today on Mars]

The purpose of this series is to try out a concept for a reliable, practical business calendar.

A reliable, practical calendar is essential for a civilization on Mars.

(th)

#24431 Re: Civilization and Culture » Holidays » 2019-01-20 10:43:52

SpaceNut ... Your ability to find interesting articles related to a discussion is remarkable every day, but on THIS occasion it is  like a fly fisherman who lands a 42 pound trout in this find!

I am surprised to discover that January 20th is one of the FEW days without a holiday of some kind!

Carrying that thought further ... EVERY day is a birthday, and thus a special day to millions of people, their relatives and friends.

And THAT leads me to the realization that a reliable, understandable calendar will be necessary for recording births and deaths on Mars, marriages and divorces, and other events which are date related for legal purposes.

(th)

SpaceNut wrote:

As much as we use a calendar to keep dates and schedules there are not all that many holidays that are observed but here is a list that contains others.

https://www.timeanddate.com/holidays/us/

#24432 Re: Civilization and Culture » Holidays » 2019-01-19 18:31:55

2019/01/19 Today on Mars Post

Per http://www-mars.lmd.jussieu.fr/mars/tim … _time.html

Martian Year: 34        Martian Month in 12 month format: 11
Solar Longitude: 326.4    Sol Number: 607

Previous SL: 325.9        Previous Sol: 606

Note that Solar Longitude measurement varies as a function of location in orbit.

Sol 607 is in Month 22 of a Proposed 24 month calendar.  See Post 19 for a summary.
Month 22 extends from Sol 586 through 613

Candidate names for this month are: Wisdom, Wallaby

Note that the Martian Sol will repeat in this report every 36 (Days or Sols – not sure)

1440 minutes in Terran day / 39 minutes longer on Mars >> 36 and change

The purpose of this series is to try out a concept for a reliable, practical business calendar.

A reliable, practical calendar is helpful for reporting weather trends and forecasts.

While weather on Mars is distinctly different from that on Earth, forecasts will be important for planning, whether of business, government, or social activities.

(th)

#24433 Re: Civilization and Culture » Holidays » 2019-01-18 21:55:13

2019/01/18 Today on Mars Post

Per http://www-mars.lmd.jussieu.fr/mars/tim … _time.html

Martian Year: 34        Martian Month in 12 month format: 11
Solar Longitude: 325.9    Sol Number: 606

Previous SL: 325.3        Previous Sol: 605

Note that Solar Longitude measurement varies as a function of location in orbit.

Sol 606 is in Month 22 of a Proposed 24 month calendar.  See Post 19 for a summary.
Month 22 extends from Sol 586 through 613

Candidate names for this month are: Wisdom, Wallaby

Note that the Martian Sol will repeat in this report every 36 (Days or Sols – not sure)

1440 minutes in Terran day / 39 minutes longer on Mars >> 36 and change

The purpose of this series is to try out a concept for a reliable, practical business calendar.

A reliable, practical calendar is helpful for scheduling non-business group activities.

This morning I joined other volunteers for a work session that is scheduled for weeks in advance for regular participants, and as little as a day in advance for last minute help.

It seems likely to me that associations of persons deployed on Mars will likewise schedule volunteer activities to support the community in a variety of ways.

(th)

#24434 Re: Life support systems » Heliostats on Mars, and other worlds. » 2019-01-17 18:39:51

For Void ... thank you for this discovery of the IR fusion technique ... It seems (at first reading) to have significant potential value.

To try to make your post easier to find, I'm adding some search terms:

SearchTerm:IRfusion
SearchTerm:InfraRed


Void wrote:

SpaceNut curiously, this has appeared, and just might fit into some Mars purpose.
https://phys.org/news/2019-01-scientist … rared.html
Quote:

Their approach, known as triplet fusion upconversion, involves a chain of processes that essentially fuses two infrared photons into a single visible light photon. Most technologies only capture visible light, meaning the rest of the solar spectrum goes to waste. Triplet fusion upconversion can harvest low-energy infrared light and convert it to light that is then absorbed by the solar panels. Visible light is also easily reflected by many surfaces, whereas infrared light has longer wavelengths that can penetrate dense materials.

Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2019-01-scientist … d.html#jCp

Done.

(th)

#24435 Re: Civilization and Culture » Holidays » 2019-01-17 13:15:55

Today's Twitter feed included a link to a NASA feature:

go.nasa.gov/2FEG02h

That link translated to:
https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap190117.html

Astronomy Picture of the Day

The scene on offer is from Sweden, and it features a skyscape set against a cabin in a remote location.

This picture inspired the thought that similar views of the night sky on Mars should be spectacular.

No doubt the Moon would be a similarly advantageous location for spectacular photography, beyond the examples already provided by the Apollo expeditions.

(th)

#24436 Re: Civilization and Culture » Holidays » 2019-01-17 10:58:06

For SpaceNut ... The local newspaper published an Associated Press summary article which might be of interest to a member of the forum. I looked for an index for "local news" (about Mars) and found too many citations to be useful.  Do you have any guidance?  One possibility is to set up a topic for "what local newspapers are saying about Mars", but another is for contributors to try to match the article to an existing topic. 

I'm thinking of deleting this post after your reply, because it would have gone via private email if that were available in FluxBB.

(th)

#24437 Re: Civilization and Culture » Holidays » 2019-01-17 08:29:24

2019/01/17 Today on Mars Post

Per http://www-mars.lmd.jussieu.fr/mars/tim … _time.html

Martian Year: 34        Martian Month in 12 month format: 11
Solar Longitude: 325.3    Sol Number: 605

Previous SL: 324.8        Previous Sol: 604

Note that Solar Longitude measurement varies as a function of location in orbit.

Sol 605 is in Month 22 of a Proposed 24 month calendar.  See Post 19 for a summary.
Month 22 extends from Sol 586 through 613

Candidate names for this month are: Wisdom, Wallaby

Note that the Martian Sol will repeat in this report every 36 (Days or Sols – not sure)

1440 minutes in Terran day / 39 minutes longer on Mars >> 36 and change

The purpose of this series is to try out a concept for a reliable, practical business calendar.

Business Marketing campaigns are often date dependent.

Specifically, many marketing campaigns are built around holidays.

Because my experience has been primarily with US practice, I would be interested in any observations others may have about practices in other locations on Earth.

If Martian business practice follows the US model, marketing people will dream up special days around which to build campaigns. 

The arrival of shipments of goods and passengers will (most likely) stimulate marketing activity by commercial enterprises of all sorts.


(th)

#24438 Re: Civilization and Culture » Holidays » 2019-01-16 19:09:54

For SpaceNut #72

Thanks !!! for the mini-treasure trove you posted ...

http://www.bdm.id.au/calendar/mars_calendar.html

I lot of thought went into the proposal at the site above.  I took a quick look and plan to return to study it more carefully.

***
Louis, thanks for your endorsement of the idea of creating a calendar for sale to the public, and for the name of another publisher who might be interested.

The links SpaceNut provided show that this topic has been considered in far more depth than I had imagined.

For those who are familiar with the entrepreneurial process, the presence of competition is a reassuring sign to investors.

Your suggestion of combining a Martian calendar with an Earth oriented one is certainly interesting, but it is also likely to run into the rule of thumb: Walk before you try to Run!

I can easily imagine that a combined calendar would be attractive to an immigrant from Earth who wants to keep track of events happening on the Terrestrial schedule, but I ALSO suspect that a digital calendar would make the process of displaying date information for two planets so easy there might be a very small market for a printed calendar.

On the other hand, I am (guessing) that there might be a novelty market for a printed Martian calendar on Earth, ESPECIALLY if part of the price includes a donation to a worthy cause, such as a Mars Society purchase of a flight on a suitable vehicle.

It seems highly unlikely a Mars Calendar could be ready for the upcoming Year 35 New Year's "celebration", but I am offering that as a stretch goal in case someone with the means to make something happen is inspired to pursue it.

On the other hand, if there were a publicity campaign in development around the upcoming Martian New Year's, then an attractive hard copy calendar with stunning visuals from NASA and ESA might be a good fit.

We (I am hereby reporting) already know that calendars.com does NOT have a Mars Calendar in their inventory.

Also ... I'd like to add that the primary web site from which the daily Mars date information is collected appears to be devoted to collection and dissemination of Mars climate data.

(th)

#24439 Re: Civilization and Culture » Holidays » 2019-01-16 16:29:23

To the best of my knowledge, a calendar for Mars, which shows the Martian year, does not exist.

Thus, the Mars Society has as much opportunity as any individual or entity to create one for consumer sales.

I contacted calendars.com via Chat, and the text below is the most useful part of the response:

03:57:16 PM [Victoria]
Thank you for your interest in Calendar Holdings LLC.  We are a calendar retailer so we purchase printed calendars from a variety of calendar publishers.  All calendars we purchase are complete (with barcode, shrink-wrap, etc) and ready to be sold.
I have included a list of some of the large calendar publishers.  You can contact them about submitting your photos.  All are well known in the industry and do quality work. 

Browntrout: xxx-xxx-xxxx

Willow Creek Press: xxx-xxx-xxxx

Sellers Publishing: xxx-xxx-xxxx

TF Publishing:  xxx-xxx-xxxx

Workman Publishing: xxx-xxx-xxxx

Feel free to contact us with any other questions.

Thank you,
Calendar Buyers

I note the telephone numbers are blanked out in the Chat Transcript

(th)

#24440 Re: Civilization and Culture » Holidays » 2019-01-16 09:35:39

2019/01/16 Today on Mars Post

Per http://www-mars.lmd.jussieu.fr/mars/tim … _time.html

Martian Year: 34        Martian Month in 12 month format: 11
Solar Longitude: 324.8    Sol Number: 604

Previous SL: 324.2        Previous Sol: 603

Note that Solar Longitude measurement varies as a function of location in orbit.

Sol 604 is in Month 22 of a Proposed 24 month calendar.  See Post 19 for a summary.
Month 22 extends from Sol 586 through 613

Candidate names for this month are: Wisdom, Wallaby

Note that the Martian Sol will repeat in this report every 36 (Days or Sols – not sure)

1440 minutes in Terran day / 39 minutes longer on Mars >> 36 and change

The purpose of this series is to try out a concept for a reliable, practical business calendar.

Transportation schedules will be date dependent.

With a reliable, practical business calendar in effect, transport schedules can be designed and published for small local transit services, as well as for longer distance transportation services.

Shipments of goods and passengers from Earth or other Solar System locations can be forecast based upon estimates of transit times planned for, and then adjusted as necessary.

Scheduling of port facilities can be forecast based upon known arrivals or anticipated arrivals, in addition to expected times in port for landed vehicles.

Arrivals of passengers and goods will set in motion a variety of support services which will have been scheduled in advance based upon expected arrival times.

(th)

#24441 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » The Science of Climate Change » 2019-01-16 09:29:26

For Kdb512 ...

Your observation about the cost of graphite intrigued me, because (a) graphite is just a form of carbon, and (b) because miners of coal could use a new market for their courageous labor.  I asked Mr. Google about the topic, and found this encouraging report:

From https://www.esi-africa.com/canadian-fir … -graphite/

Canadian-headquartered multinational organisation, CVMR, through research has been able to convert natural coal to graphite flakes, powders and graphite blocks at much lower cost than the current methods in use.

In addition, the firm has been able to produce graphene from methane gas, they said in a company statement.

According to Kamran M. Khozan, Chairman and CEO of CVMR Corporation and MPower Corporation, the graphite product has the ability to collect and store energy from the sun – ironic for a traditionally dirty fossil fuel product.

“Coal, like petroleum, has many other uses besides being simply burnt to generate energy. Unfortunately, coal has become synonymous with the grubby stuff that we burn and pollute the air, creating serious environmental problems," the CEO said in a statement.

He added: “As a result, this valuable commodity is wasted and is being sold too cheaply. But it could be treated as a precious commodity with many industrial uses, with more being discovered daily.”

A tip of the hat to RobertDyck, whose countrymen carried out this work.

kbd512 wrote:

Someone needs to endurance test the molten Silicon concept.  The Silicon is stored at temperatures well beyond the working temperatures of very high temperature nuclear reactors.  Graphite is not cheap and many tons are required to store that much molten Silicon.  If that works, then someone needs to prove the manufacturability of the entire solution at pilot plant scale.  That'll get expensive pretty quick.  Maybe NREL could fund it.  It might work or it might prove to be impractical.  Provided that the Graphite bill doesn't become astronomical, molten Silicon could be cheaper than molten salt.  The major cost of either storage technology will still be the heliostats or wind turbines by a mile.

#24442 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » The Science of Climate Change » 2019-01-16 08:00:55

For Louis ... thanks for noting the potential of ammonia as an energy storage medium.   Just as with hydrocarbons, ammonia must be contained.

For kbd512 ... Thanks for your continued support of ammonia as an energy storage medium

Google came up with lots of citations for "global ammonia industry". However, the lead citation caught my eye:

https://ammoniaindustry.com/

In late 2018, JGC Corporation issued a press release to celebrate a "world's first" in ammonia energy, demonstrating at its pilot plant in Koriyama both "synthesis of ammonia with hydrogen produced through the electrolysis of water by renewable energy, and generation of electricity through gas turbines fueled by synthesized ammonia."

By demonstrating the feasibility of using ammonia on both sides of the renewable energy equation -- first, producing green ammonia from intermittent renewable electricity and, second, combusting this carbon-free fuel for power generation -- the project demonstrates the role of ammonia in the "establishment of an energy chain ... that does not emit CO2 (CO2-free) from production to power generation."

kbd512 wrote:

Ammonia is very well established for farming and industry, along with the all-important supply chain and institutional knowledge of how to use it, at least here in America if nowhere else.  If reverse fuel cells are perfected, then the Ammonia can be both fast and cheap to produce.  The energy density of Ammonia in a fuel cell is substantial.  No insane pressures or temperatures are required, although it will be pressurized if stored at room temperature.  The fuel cells in question use low cost and common materials, rather than Platinum group metals.  I think it'd make more sense to pair Ammonia with wind turbines.  The fuel cells can turn on and off at a moment's notice, just like the wind.  If you did that with turbo machinery, bad things would happen.

(th)

#24443 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » The Science of Climate Change » 2019-01-15 19:33:26

louis wrote:

Looks like we might have a technical solution to intermittency...

If you also remember that electric car batteries will also (with incentives) be available as storage for the grid, then I think we can see a way forward to a renewable energy world comprising solar, wind, energy from waste, hydro, wave power, geothermal, sea current, tidal power, bio fuels,  methane (produced from solar and wind in times of over production) ,  transcontinental grids, thermal energy storage,  chemical battery storage and pumped hydro storage. During times of low energy generation from wind and solar, there will be ramped up production from energy from waste, bio fuels and methane plus use of stored energy.

Louis, you have omitted ammonia from your list of energy storage methods.  I am wondering if you have omitted it because kbd512 included it in one of his long messages (there may well have been more than one mention).

Ammonia has a number of advantages as an energy storage medium, not least of which is that it is already in long standing industrial scale use around the world.

I don't want to cause an argument.  I just want (request that) you amend your original post to include ammonia.

(th)

#24444 Re: Civilization and Culture » Holidays » 2019-01-15 09:56:46

2019/01/15 Today on Mars Post

Per http://www-mars.lmd.jussieu.fr/mars/tim … _time.html

Martian Year: 34        Martian Month in 12 month format: 11
Solar Longitude: 324.2    Sol Number: 603

Previous SL: 323.6        Previous Sol: 602

Note that Solar Longitude measurement varies as a function of location in orbit.

Sol 603 is in Month 22 of a Proposed 24 month calendar.  See Post 19 for a summary.
Month 22 extends from Sol 586 through 613

Candidate names for this month are: Wisdom, Wallaby

Note that the Martian Sol will repeat in this report every 36 (Days or Sols – not sure)

1440 minutes in Terran day / 39 minutes longer on Mars >> 36 and change

The purpose of this series is to try out a concept for a reliable, practical business calendar.

Legal procedures are date dependent.

Court schedules are defined by dates.  A reliable calendar will be required and expected.

Sentences are defined by periods of time.

Sentences on Mars which involve Sols or Months will seem “normal” to immigrants from Earth.

Sentences on Mars which involve years will (presumably) be adjusted from Earth standards.

Life sentences will be understandable in both locations.

(th)

#24445 Re: Civilization and Culture » Holidays » 2019-01-14 11:57:34

For RobertDyck in #66

Thanks for the reminder of the arbitrary nature of recognition of adulthood.  I have adjusted the original post.  The intention of the post (of course) was to show how life on Mars will differ in temporal terms, so I appreciate the opportunity to remove distractions.

And! Thanks for the clarifications about relative ages.  The ( two for one ) shortcut is clearly less than ideal.

(th)

#24446 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » A City Rises on the Plain... » 2019-01-14 11:49:41

Louis,

Here is an interesting perspective on the future, by one of your countrymen:

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/2019010 … est-threat

While the author is focused strictly on Earth, it seems to me his ruminations are worth folding into the larger set of futures, of which Mars is a part.

(th)

#24447 Re: Civilization and Culture » Holidays » 2019-01-14 09:06:01

2019/01/14 Today on Mars Post

Per http://www-mars.lmd.jussieu.fr/mars/tim … _time.html

Martian Year: 34        Martian Month in 12 month format: 11
Solar Longitude: 323.6    Sol Number: 602

Previous SL: 323.1        Previous Sol: 601

Note that Solar Longitude measurement varies as a function of location in orbit.

Sol 602 is in Month 22 of a Proposed 24 month calendar.  See Post 19 for a summary.
Month 22 extends from Sol 586 through 613

Candidate names for this month are: Wisdom, Wallaby

Note that the Martian Sol will repeat in this report every 36 (Days or Sols – not sure)

1440 minutes in Terran day / 39 minutes longer on Mars >> 36 and change

The purpose of this series is to try out a concept for a reliable, practical business calendar.

Tracking family anniversaries will be more complicated as Mars becomes an active living site for human beings from Earth.  It will be necessary and appropriate to keep track of births, deaths, weddings, graduations and other personal events in both locations, separately from each other.

Email communication will facilitate keeping in touch, in a manner almost indistinguishable from current practice on Earth, since a communications delay is of little practical significance for those who check email once a day, or even several times a day.

However, families with members in both planets will have to juggle the calendars, to keep up with changes.  A few science fiction writers I've encountered have attempted to deal with the curiosity (from Earth point of view) of age progressing half as fast on Mars as on Earth.

The (somewhat) arbitrary recognition of 21 Earth years as a measure of adulthood does not have an exact match on Mars, where a person might be considered adult at age 10.

The secondary recognition of 18 as an age of (at least partial) adulthood on Earth would be matched with the age of 9 on Mars.

Edited to reflect reminders from RobertDyck about the arbitrary nature of "adulthood" in various cultures.

(th)

#24448 Re: Civilization and Culture » Holidays » 2019-01-14 08:52:27

For Terraformer #62 ...

Thanks for your reply ....

Just FYI (as you plan your navigation of a Cycler) ... seconds are NOT the same length on Mars as they are on Earth.  By convention, seconds are longer in proportion to the longer day.

It would be helpful of someone from NASA or JPL (or another organization which does deep space flight planning) were to contribute to this discussion.

It is possible for NewMars Forum to follow the flight of a Cycler, just as I am doing with the progress of Mars around the Sun.

However, the technical challenge of planning the vector adjustments would be much greater than the (comparatively simple) task of just following a planet along its orbit.  In the course of such a "flight", readers of the Forum would (hopefully) gain insight into how gravity and other forces influence flight planning.

SpaceNut ... thank you for all those links to Cycler information.   It will take a while (for me at least) to review that list.  I'll be looking to see if an activity to follow a simulated flight is practical.

(th)

#24449 Re: Civilization and Culture » Holidays » 2019-01-13 20:14:02

For Terraformer ...

Thanks again for inviting me to visit NewMars Forum.

I am intrigued by your idea, but am wondering how it would work.

If you were the Captain of a cycler, how would you arrange time measurement.   You would have a permanent crew who would presumably have started out from Earth.  You would have temporary workers from Earth and Mars.  Then you would have passengers going to one or the other of the planets.

On top of everything, of course, you would have navigation to consider, which would require utmost precision and certainty of using the correct time system and units.

Back to you ...
(th)

Terraformer wrote:

On a cycler, I would expect them to cycle. It would give people plenty of time to adjust.

#24450 Re: Civilization and Culture » Holidays » 2019-01-13 13:36:57

Hi SpaceNut,

Thank you for these suggestions and for your closing prediction.

After thinking about them for a while, I'd like to offer this reflection:

I think that if I were on Mars, I'd keep two calendars.  The one for Earth would help to stay in touch with activities there, and in particular, to be able to tune into delayed broadcasts of various programs or events as they arrive.

The one for Mars would help to coordinate my schedule with others on the planet.

It seems to me that as humans travel further from Earth, they may keep an atomic clock with Earth time for the same reason, while adapting their local schedules to immediate circumstances.  It might well be standard practice for Earth departing vessels to maintain Earth time, and for Mars departing vessels to maintain Mars time.  It might make sense for the Mars Cycler to offer both times for reference by passengers and crew, but (I'm guessing of course) meals might well be scheduled on Earth time while ownership resides on Earth.

If the Cycler is big enough, I suppose both schedules could be available.

I do not recall ANY of the Star Trek or Star Wars episodes or movies dealing with this issue. 

In addition, I can't recall ANY of the science fiction books or stories I've read considering this issue.

(th)

SpaceNut wrote:

other minor day to indicate might be for human space flight firsts for all nations such as in a the:

Yuri's Night is named for the first human to launch into space, Yuri Gagarin, who flew the Vostok 1 spaceship on April 12, 1961.

Alan Shepard, Jr. became the first American in space on May 5, 1961, when he was launched aboard Mercury-Redstone 3. His 15-minute flight, dubbed "Freedom 7," was watched by some 45 million television viewers.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_spaceflight

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_ … ationality

Of course the first manned landing on Mars would be a National holiday for Mars.

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