New Mars Forums

and your proofs and denials beyond the mere statements?

I've posted about Peak Oil in another forum; no replies!  Is this a sign that there is no holes in the arguement?  Because, I'm about to send a cleaned up version of the below right up I just made to the President!  If you have anything constructive to say, I'd definitelly appreciate it.

"A year or so ago, I wrote about how if we just establish a foothold out in space where gravity is significantly lower such as the moon or mars, then the rest of the solar systems resources are well within reach.  I mentioned how those resources are so large and easily extractible once we are even a little bit established out in space.

I forgot to mention another reason why we should go to space in the first place - the second law of thermodynamics.   This law of thermodynamics says once a fuel is used in a closed mechanical system, the fuel is converted into a form that cannot be used again as an energy source.  The classic example is a pool of water divided in half where one side is one color and another side is another color; remove the divider, and the two colors mix evenly; the force and energy is then spent; no more energy is able to be extracted.  The reason the earth's life is to keep going is the left over energy heat from radioactives in the earths core from its formation in the case of life that isn't dependent on the sun's energy, and the life that is dependent on the sun's energy, well, they get the free energy from the sun's fusion activities.

A major point here is that our civilization does not work on sunlight; it works on fossil fuels which are not replenishable except on a geologic timescale.  Sure, there is plenty left, but the rest is going to be much harder to extract one way or another.  I know that you have been briefed on the "Peak Oil" situation; it looks like that 'Peak Oil' has been attained with the raising of oil prices.  From now on, civilization is on a downward spiral.  In fact, chances are, we could witness the degradation of civilization within a decade.

Nanotechnologies are likely to be to primitive to expect them to save us within a decade especially with all the civil disruption likely to intensify up to the last years of decade we have to do something.

We've made it to the moon in a decade with less technology; in fact, we had to develop most of that technology within that same decade.  The moon/mars debate is one of whether we need the more readily available mars oil than the much harder to make oil from raw moon materials; we need the oil!  Robert Zubrin has shown how to get to mars permanently under fifty billion dollars of the first mars landing(subsequent mars flights would be less).  I've just read an article about Bigelow's inflatable space stations which would slash space station costs from the billions to the millions.  Part of that cost savings is the technology which is a weight savings to get the space station modules up into space.  The other cost savings has to do with how the aerospace companies charge fifty times profits on every little piece that goes into  an aerospace component!  I suspect this was done probably back in the sixties or seventies to keep foreign competition from getting the high ground back on the U.S.  'So be it', as they say.  But, the fact is the U.S. has the capability right now of settling and tapping the resources of mars right now!  I would like to bring up an idea of making a batch of rockets for Mr Zubrin's "Mars Direct" at two times profit costs for the space industries; they can keep their fifty times profits for normal aerospace activities.

The simple fact is that if human civilization goes back to pre-oil based economy within a decade without finding a way of living off the resources of space, then humanity is probable 99% chance of never getting a chance of expanding out ever again which means humanity has almost no chance of survival for long.  We have six billion people economically dependent on this fossil-fuel economy, and if it goes down in a decade, most of them and all their knowledge will die.  If food, medical shortages do not kill them, civil unrest will take out the majority of the rest.

This is it!  No more dragging our feet into the future; it is time to go one hundred percent full bore peddle to the metal onto mars. 

The reference link to Mr Bigelow's work and about that fifty times profit margin is below.

http://www.lasvegasmercury.com/2004....l]http://www.lasvegasmercury.com/2004/MERC-Jul-08-Thu-2004/24250261.html"]http://www.lasvegasmercury.com/2004....l"

this is the Pope who was quoted in Stephen Hawkings "A Brief History of Time" that we can study up to the big bang but not the big bang itself; o.k, he spent the last fifteen years apologizing for the Galileo events of hundreds of years ago; but all in all, he's part of an establishment that wants to replace him with a more evangelical Pope . . . .

did the link not work?

well, before anybody jumps to soon;

extra comments from me!

What happens with the U.S. debt?  We don't pay it!

The article mentions the Nazies used a pretty substantial labor force
to make synthetic oil; my a.i. could help here.

China also has a new safe nuclear reactor design which they already
have work on building right now for hydrogen economy energy purposes.
If china even gets half of those working, they could rule the world
and probably the solar system; humanity has a future!

The last leads me to say Space is the only way out, but is the U.S.
mentally and spiritually ready to go full tilt towards space in the
next ten years?

Alright, you hit on something where I do have a softer side towards religion in general and god believers specifically, but right now, I'm feeling tired; so, i'll try to get back to this as soon as possible.

Well, I'm sure you'll be back to read my reply . . . my reply is I don't remember everything about Byzantianism(because I read so much), but I guarantee you I can find experts in Byzantium at http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com]www.skepticsannotatedbible.com who will tell you otherwise.

i can feel the end of civilization with each submission to irrationalism; it was noted by a neo-platonist philosopher that no matter how much rationalization was given to the christians, they just kept breeding and playing stupid; eventually, the "pagan"(a christian word for anybody but themselves) thinkers just decided to pack bags and head east to the Byzantine empire and let the west fall which it of course did.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s … leadersays

oops, forgot the link

http://www.whatthebleep.com/]http://www … bleep.com/

. . . to spread a more scientific idea of spirituality; definitelly take it with one hell of a grain of salt;

http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/new … sith_x.htm

I was just re-reading some more of Asimov's "Extraterrestrial Civilizations"(I was re-reading it years ago, but decided the last couple of chapters probably weren't much worth to read; was I wrong or what!?), and he had mentioned an idea of why the Cambrian explosion, or the onset of multicelluar life took so long; because the ozone layer hadn't developed enough till then; anybody know of any confirmation of this idea?