New Mars Forums

I wonder if the rovers discovered any evidence of nitrogen in the soil. I couldn't find any information on that. That would be important for the future missions, colonizers, terraformers, wouldn't it?

I guess animals should be introduced gradually, as the terraforming itself, which doesn't happen overnight. There won't be any whales, let alone large cattle on a "just" terraformed Mars. At the stage when we have just grass and no trees yet some insects, lizards and small mammals could be brought. They won't thrive at first because of the food scarcity, harsh climate, etc but they will help to create better soils and become food for more advanced animals when they can be brought there. The colonies will probably have some pets, fowls and some small sheep or cattle farms right from the start but there won't be large animals in the wild until there are enough forests, fresh water and both plant and animal food.

It is a good to have all the Earth animals on Mars for species conservation but I can't see it happening soon even if the basic terraformation had happened. The balance could be found even with a small number of species - hardy and small ones - easier to transport, find shelter for or move to a better place.

I would put such a dependency on the stages of terraforming to animal introduction:
1) low atmospheric pressure rich in CO2 (50 to 250 mb)-ice-lichens, moss, algae-bacteria ->
2) medium atmospheric pressure (250 to 500 mb)-some liquid water, clouds-grass - insects, lizards, mice, fish, crabs ->
3) higher atmospheric pressure (more Earthlike) (500+ mb)-open lakes, rivers, seas, (an) ocean(s)- bushes and trees -> birds, small mammals
...

It could also happen that large areas on Mars stay desert - the whole of Tharsis bulge, highlands in the southern hemisphere - about 30% or more of the total surface - areas 6 km or more above average level. Abundance of liquid water is crucial for animal life - it could be clean or dirty, fresh or salty but at least some part of it must be liquid at all times or reachable under the ice crust.

As for the transportation - if people are able to get to Mars, they'll find ways to get some small animals there too.

Seriously, I don't think that this what's going to happen. The planets are too big for shifting and spinning up. We'll have to work with what we've got.

The main problem with Venus is not the rotation but its thick poisonous atmosphere. If the Venusian atmosphere could be made earthlike, then life could be adjusted somehow to long days and nights or people will have to live in domes or caves forever. Large amounts of water, clouds and winds would soften largely the temperature differences.

Robert Zubrin in his "Case for Mars" said that Americans could buy all the technology for 4 billion dollars from Russians to get a Mars mission and the book was written in the nineties. It's just a matter of cooperation. I don't think the French will pay for the mission. The US could afford this but they prefer to do it themselves and pay 30 billions and spend 30 years.

Oh, I didn't get that you were making a statement about New Mars, Rik. Thanks for that. I will add this to the ads I am making up.

I don't feel confused about languages used in Europe, it's pretty straightforward. I haven't been to Belgium but I was in different places in Germany and once in Holland.

As for the Asians languages, it's more complicated. I was envolved in a hot online discussions on a Japanese language forum where some people started abusing each other because of a mix-up about what we call a language and what we call a dialect, whether Japanese is close to Chinese as Italian to Spanish or not, and whether Cantonese is a dalect of Chinese or a separate language. That was funny because nobody was able to convince anyone and there was no moderator to stop the fight.

I'll keep trying but looks like interest to Mars and space exploration is dropping again in other forums, posts are more pessimistic. Maybe because nothing is happening and no short-term plan has been developed for the Mars mission.

P.S. You don't need to complain about your English in your siggie, Rik, you "sound" like native to me, although I am not the one to judge.

I understand very well what you fee like, Cindy. You know, in England they are planning to introduce the rule that if you want to get permanent residence in the UK, you should learn to play cricket among some other things. Yes, I agree a president should know a lot of things about their country and the daily problems people face in different areas but you admit that even a pure American candidate may not know enough about "everyday America". R. Reagan too was an actor but made it to the presidency, did he care about Iowa farmers? Not knowing the difference in the accents or not knowing how shrimps in Louisiana taste can be a source of embarrassment and reduce your chance to establish good communication and that's what makes an alien different from Americans but I would prefer a person who can listen to problems and solve them, rather than a chap who is "friends" with everyone, knows all the regional diversities but only thinks about more power and wealth. That's not a very important issue for me, anyway. I accept that you've got your reasons to want only native-borns to be eligible.

I must admit - I'm not as good in History as you think. I did well at school and at Uni in Russia, but focused too much on languages and, in the last years on computing - especially after arrival in Australia in 1997 - very time-consuming but no excuse not to learn other things. I haven't seen Hermitage or Winter palace either - what a shame! Of course I saw so many pictures, TV shows, etc, I feel like I've seen it. I stayed in St Petersburg only shortly on the way to Finland. A really beautiful city!

Great link, thanks!

The Kuiper Belt and Oort Cloud objects have a lot of nitrogen (frozen or gaseous), which could be a good source for terraforming Mars and other planets closer to the Sun. The delivery is an issue but the asteroids's trajectory could be directed towards Mars and then dumped on Mars in pieces.

Knowing the region is important for understanding the origin of the solar system and for the planetary engineers (terraformers), as the scientists say, the bombardment of all the planets with asteroids and comets was probably coming from the Oort cloud and Kuiper Belt and that's possibly where Earth got its atmosphere from.

I agree, Rik. The Russian economy is growing again, not as fast as Chinese, though. The Russian Space Agency (Rosaviakosmos) has the capacity for a Martian mission now, if they have the money to build these spacecrafts. What is required is a lander, more tests, more fuel, etc. Do you think that Zarya could be used for a Martian mission? I don't know if the craft would be able to take a lander and enough equipment.
If they cooperated with NASA or another space agency, they would be able to pull it off, don't you think?
The real boom for the space industry may start, when there is a demand for Russian spacecrafts and launchers.

It is a disappointment for me, though, Rik. The efforts could be used for a Mars mission. I hope they may change their mind after elections in the US. I read that they are ready for cooperation with the US in Mars exploration but there was quote "no invitation" to cooperation.

I think all the solid bodies in the solar system large enough to hold a colony with the gravity enough to stop people from flying away into space could be colonized (I don't mean terraformed!). To keep settlements warm, a lot of nuclear power could be used. Pluto has resources to support a colony. If the moons of the outer planets are colonized then we will have good technology to produce and save energy.

Honestly I don't care what you call it, we can still call it a planet as a tradition. As for terraforming, if the temperatures are kept just below the freezing point, the water will sublime but not as fast as the liquid water. I don't think Pluto is of big interest for colonizers but who knows, maybe some day...

Take a look at Arctic worlds of Ganymede/Callisto (imagination), that's the approach I would take for any "cold" planet or moon in the Solar system:
[http://www.geocities.com/ares2101/Jovia … rming.html]Jovian Terraforming

Just want to share on my "work" promoting New Mars internationally. There are quite active discussions in some places but they are much smaller in number of users and posts.

Apart from joining discussions on Russian forums, I started posting in a German:
[http://www.nachtwelten.de/vB/showthread … genumber=2]Mars macht mobil...

If you're wanna laugh at my French posting,
click on [http://forums.futura-sciences.com/viewt … 4&start=20]A la Conquete de Mars

I'll take it easy, if something comes up, I'll look for Japanese forums.

It depends on discussions going on in a particular forum but can someone suggest a good statement/description about the New Mars Forum?

I'm glad I hooked some serious pessimists on a couple of other forums into a discussions. Not sure whether they join the discussion here but the word is spreading.