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Then the workers go out and get grains of materials that can be "Eaten" by the "Queen" to make more workers.
Dead bees/ants recycled I presume.
I think this model is very interessant.
http://www.philipmetzger.com/blog/affor … ilization/
It goes far beyond the hive model.
Instead, we could talk about a "robotsphere" in analogy to a biosphere or a ecosystem.
A group of robots that, as a group, it could replicate and "evolve" (with a code uploaded by humans).
It is based on minimize payload. Sometimes it is better to send complex "made on Earth" machines, with enough replacements.
Other parts, bulky, are maded from materials of the destination.
IRSU at great level.
And making more a more infrastructure, less and less "made of Earth" parts or raw material are needed, and different space sources are used.
Ok. But it is easy to put the mass on orbit with rail guns. Ceres could be disassembled it a extreme configuration if we wanted to maximize colonizable space.
I think that this is something extreme. For the same reason, I think that on Ceres won't exists so many colonies.
Not too bad I think, submarines move through water without too much trouble, and the speeds we are talking about aren't too incredible.
A submarine, something a lot smaller, needs a huge power to move. I'm afraid that your system would require a lot more energy than a levitation one. And heat rejection is a problem in Ceres. It would need a web of pipes around the colony to distribute the heat and avoid overheat the surface too much to avoid massive evaporation.
Why stack spheres? That's easy, because Ceres has less surface area than Earth because it is small, you can create more surface area by digging tunnels into Ceres.
I'm not even consideration a number of colonies so huge. I was thinking about some little colonies to work in it. To live, I suppose that it has more sense space colonies.
I do believe that metals in the core of Ceres will be much harder to get than metals in broken shards of asteroids, that can be crashed in a planned way into the ice of Ceres.
I think that at least America and likely much of the world is about to become much more materialistic and less spiritual (Due to privation).
We can consider risking an "Easter Island" scene, or go get that stuff, and be nicely well off.
Ceres and Vesta could be too big probably. Enough big to be differenciated, but too much to reach easily the core.
But it should be a optimal size where, although reach the core is difficult, the concentration inside is enough to justify to reach it.
The concentration of platinum elements of a differenciated body must be huge. It the asteroid is the correct type, even better.
"16 Psyche", the biggest M type asteroide, if differenciated, it must be incredible rich inside.
I could draw something and send it to you. I don't know how to post something of my own work here, as it needs to be already on the web for me to post the image here. I will give you a verbal description for now. Your drawing looks like a straight cylinder within a cylindrical shaft carved down into the crust. In my case I would escavate a cylindrical shaft 270 meters wide. On top would be a dome to hold in the air, along with docking ports for spaceships.
In my design, the colony is closed too obviously. It could be usign a dome, or buried deep in the ground, or anything similar. While materials could support the pressure of the zone where is excavated, there is no limit to the place where it could be built, while the align is correct.
It's a design we could adapt to any low mass body, including Mars. With more gravity, more levitation rings are needed, and the perceived slope will be greater, but all others things remain the same.
To have colonies with artificial 1g it could be critical to fetal development and it will be an advantage to greater health for sure.
The shaft from the surface would go down 250 meters then it would form a bulb - a spherical cavity probably 510 meters in diameter within which a 500 meter wide Bernal Sphere would fit within snugly, the spin plane of the bernal sphere would be parallel to the surface of Ceres above it. Below the Bernal and the spherical cavity is another shaft which continues downward, it is 270 meters wide, and it continues another 500 meters down before ending at another spherical cavity just like the one above, with another bernal inside that is 500 meters wide and rotating 1.9 times a minute for a full gravity at its equator, below that one is another 270 meter wide cylindrical passage that continues another 500 meters down to meet yet another spherical cavity with bernal sphere rotating inside. In each 270 meter wide spherical tunnel is a layer of water 10 meters deep, the water flow keeps the water to the sides of the tunnel by centrifugal force, the centrifugal force is one eighth of Earth's gravity at the water surface, and it has to contend with the 2.4% Ceres gravity that is pulling the water downward.
I don't understand this configuration.
Why stack spheres? which advantage gets over simply using more surface on Ceres?
Or even fragility. I think that not aligned shafts are more robust, even they are buried deep in Ceres, filling the planet.
And we don't know by now how is the deep crust. Perhaps, at some deep, the ice become liquid.
And the water... The water between the sphere and the walls, it's like liquid rails. A lot of friction i think.
Perhaps i'm mistaking the model.
My question is what weight load? The Bernal Sphere is designed to spin and hold itself together, the tracks aren't there to hold it together under its own spin, what it will do is hold it up against Ceres gravity, but that is not much, about 2.4% of Earth's gravity All the tracks do is provide something to push against so it continues rotating for its own internal gravity, as it will be rotating within a breathable atmosphere at 1 atmospheric pressure, the speed at which it would be rotating against the air in the tunnel is 67.5 miles per hour, however the water in the tunnel will be spinning at half that velocity, so the relative velocity between the Bernal Sphere and the water surface will be only 33.75 miles per hour, the flow of the water relative to the tunnel walls would also be 33.75 miles per hour. the water surface allows people to transfer from the spinning habitat to the nonspinning tunnels and thus travel underground from one habitat to another without having to go into space.
2,4% could sounds little, but this structures are HUGE, so we are talking about a lot of energy.
The less friction, the better.
I'm not sure about your configuration. Could you provide some drawing?
A handwriting draw could be enough.
Here is the mine.
Obviously not at scale. Drawing of a centered cut. The levitation supports are circular in 3D. They could levitate each one, so it could be detached, stopped, fixed/changed, rotate again and reattach.
The number of rotation disks could be incremented to distribute the weight to the deep.
In this draw i choose a cilindrical configuration, although the effective gravity is the sum of Ceres gravity and centripetal.
Not at scale (Ceres vector is smaller), but the idea is that in this configuration are mounds with the perception of live in a slope to the bottom of the cilinder.
I suggest you use magnetic levitation instead of bearings. Only rails on the base would be used on case of catastrophic stop of the colony.
A configuration of magnetic rings using hall bach arrays like in inductrack configuration should be enough, not only to regulate the rotation but to transfer weight load like in a arc or a cupola, but weight translate through the repulsion of the inner rings (in the rotation section) and outer rings (in the outside part of the tunnel, fixed). With the adecuate magnetic configuration it should be possible.
Because the possibility of stack rings, fixed and rotated sections, the weight can be distributed and it could be build as deep as needed. The stacked rings will be in the outer part of the colony. From inner perspective, "underground" below the perceived floor of the ground level.
That's imply a constant flux of energy, but that would be inevitable on a body with gravity. Magnetic rings or rails, all dissipate energy.
In any case, the environment would be very cold, so energy is a necessity.
I suggest enough redundant configuration in energy source.
Basically the idea is to dig 500 meter wide cylindrical tunnels into the Dwarf Planet Ceres and bury Kalpana One Space Colonies within them
Ceres has gravity. Small, but enough to complicate things.
The logical configuration is a inverted and truncated cone, perpendicular to the Ceres gravity. In fact, it would not exactly a cone. The curve of the cone should be vector result of the centrifugal pseudoforce and Ceres gravity. Because Ceres gravity is small, the structure would be almost cilindrical, but not completely.
Because centrifugal force is smaller with less radius, it is not a cone but more like a bowl.
On the center, the gravity is not zero but Ceres surface gravity.
This configuration could be replicated in other moon or planets, with some differences. For example, on Mars, the gravity is too strong to make too deep. It is better a quasi-torus configuration, like a train travel very fast on a near perpendicular camber.
It will not rotate as fast as zero gravity, because the sense force is the sum of vectors of native gravity and centrifugal force.
If you move through a stairs "up", really you are moving to the center. The stairs must curve to maintain each stair perpendicular to the vectors of its position, and the stair becomes into a corridor when you approach the center.
The bodies with very little gravity like Phobos/Deimos could build structures very similar to cilinders. But bodies like Moon/Mars/Mercury/Callisto... needs narrow configurations more similar to torus.
So basically fusion SSTOs require the fusion product be kept separate from the propellent, as contact with air would disrupt the fusion process by cooling the plasma.
In Space, if you try to maximize impulse, you could use the byproduct of fusion (like Helium-4 isotope) as propellent.
But for a SSTO, a lot of mass is required as propellent to reach the high thrust needed to reach orbit, so yes, fusion plasma and propellent are separated.
I suppose that a aneutronic with high energy capture is needed to transfer into the propelent, because using pure thermal transfer, the core would be hotter than propellent, and normal exahust heat is too high for a nuclear wall to resist.
The solution is to capture the energy in usefull (electric) form instead of heat and use fast transfer into propellent. Like a Skylon with extra energy transfer from microwaves usign fusion energy source with high energy capture (to avoid overheat into the nuclear reactor). If the nuclear reactor is enough powerfull, you could even use water in liquid form because the energy of the reactor is enough to avoid the needed of hydrogen and oxygen as in Skylon, and use a more compact design of the spaceship. Or use methane because it has a better hydrogen ratio (you don't need oxygen as oxydizer with a fusion source).
In space, a thermal core is viable, because you can use low thrust and heat rejection.
We know that Mars had seas. Thats mean near Earth temperature and pressure.
So, yes... with a enough thick atmosphere, a planet on Mars location could have enough greenhouse effect to have liquid water of surface.
Although without a magnetic field it could be possible that all hydrogen escape to space.
I think that gain life and "suffer" a "oxygen catastrophe" is a key to retain more hydrogen because even if dissociate because UV on high atmosphere, the presence of oxygen makes easy to because water. And water is mostly trapped on high atmosphere where the temperature is lowest.
Earth combine magnetic field and oxygen atmosphere. The optimal combination to retain hydrogen.
A rotation structures is completely viable.
http://www.artificial-gravity.com/sw/SpinCalc/
Radius = 207
Rotation = 2 rotations/minute
Speed (tangential) = 156 km/h (a moderate train achieve this)
Gravity (horizontal) = 0,93
(0,93^2+0,376^2)^(1/2)=1,03 g
An structure like that could be rotate using magnetic levitation, using superconductors or permanent magnets like on Inductrack using little energy to compensate air friction and other energy dissipation.
On the sides, the horizontal component of the "gravity" is greater, so people and things would be on almost horizontal. A curved stair could connect with the center. At first, "up" (from inside perspective) is going to the center (from outside perspective). When you goes up from inside, the position of the floor gets more and more parallel to the floor of Mars, and the stairs twist and turns into a ramp and later a corridor to the center.
Another configuration could include a "elevator" from the center to the edges. First, moves to the edges like a car, but tilt at the same time to be parallel to the sum of gravity and centrifugal apparent force, so , from the perspective of the passenger it goes forward at first, and later, goes "down", and when it reach the "bottom" (the side of the rotating structure) reach a 1g "gravity" (the sum of real gravity and centrifugal force by rotation).
The whole ring is in a circular orbit, on the inside (the side facing the Earth) is a maglev track, speeding along the maglev track is a car running counter to the orbital velocity of the ring and matching the velocity of the Earth's surface, and from that, you simply lower a cable 200 km to the Earth's surface...
This structure has an advantage. Because the speed of the orbit could be different from the relative speed of the ground, it is possible to use different planes and reduce the distance to the minimum.
For example, it is viable to create a orbital ring on the moon, and a small, faster cable to move between Moon and the ring compared to a normal space elevator.
We could use a ring in polar orbit instead a perpendicular elevator to the planet/moon axis too.
The ring could be used as a electromagnetic cannon for cargo once in orbit.
Of course, in terms of material, any ring around a big body needs a lot of mass. A future tech not for today.
But interesting ideas, as materials nowadays are strong enough to make a cable. Only plenty ones (iron, oxygen, etc.) are needed for the ring. With self-replicating tech and space mining, projects like this could be viable in this century.
And we don't need even reach the surface (to avoid high winds and excesive tensions). A platform reachable with hydrgen balooms in the sky could be enough.
Perhaps not enough useful on Earth but Venus.
For interplanetary, we could use "space jumpers". Electromagnetic cannons, enough large to avoid extreme accelerations.
The cannons would be moved backward, but because it would be more massive, the new orbit could be enough high to avoid reenter on the atmosphere. Then, using a slow but efficient propulsion (solar - ion, magnetic sails...) could return to the original orbit for reuse.
The spaceship could use aerobraking on destination, and ion propulsion for correction after the aerobraking and make a stable low orbit.
Any planetary ring is huge. But if this is forgotten, it's more easy to build a simple circular ring aroung Earth, at LEO, but rotating synchronous with planet. Of course that's suborbital, but a ring is solid and it wouldn't fall. And with simple buildings reach this place. The need of strong materials are lower than for a classic space elevator.
And, because the less height, the building could be slightly conical instead of cylindrical to reduce the pressure.
My point is that most extremophiles are prokaryotes. Prokaryotes has little margin to create a complex macroorganism, no matter how much we redesign them.
I think that there is more possibilities to build complex organisms that could transform fast the environment, and, although much less endurable at cellular level, is more resilient as a whole organism, because creates a heave skin around it, that ultraresiliant prokaryotes that could only create simple colonies and simple protection because can not create an organism as a common thing.
Of course, if we reach the level of create new artificial life, we could develop extremophiles and multicellular designed from scratch.
Perhaps even in new solvents different from water could allow incredible low temperatures, capable of exists in places like Jupiter and Saturn moons.
If we can't produce e-people, we could always rely on human cloning. Modify people so that they grow to maturity in a decade, and train them in whatever needs to be done. Not as quick as AGI, but if we have artificial wombs, we could clone millions of people each year, giving us a sufficiently large workforce to accomplish out tasks.
From a biological perspective, the time scale of human growth is exponential. So we really don't need some technology to replicate so fast. In fact, we have people more than enough to fill Venus, Earth and Mars, and fill its completelly in some generations.
Without poberty and correct education, ten billion people (as we will live to see) is more than enough "combined mind" to acoplish terraforming. Perhaps not enough "human labour", but, really, today we don't make food using human labour but machines with human supervision.
That's the way, and we only need replicate factories and simple robots to make "anything". Insect like are more than enough for that. Human could fill the rol of the queens of the hive.
The challenge is to start and begin to replicate. With hives of robots, a small colony of humans could accoplish huge tasks. The difficult is at the start, where is nothing there. When we reach the level to replicate (as a community... robots, factories, humans...) we soon reach the level to terraforming a world in little generations. So think in the undesired changes of Earth, and translate it in intentional changes, geoengineering, with fusion energy, "unlimited" robot-hive capability and access to space resources.
I'm not so sure that we could build extremophiles that could thrive on Mars. There is extremophile that tolerates radiation, that tolerates very dry enviroments, very cold ones... but, all the same time, in the most extremes, and not only survive but thrive?
Too much.
Instead, I think that we could design, in some decades when we have the advancements in artificial life, multicellular organisms enough complex to create a "bubble", a "microscopic paraterraformation". Think, for example, in a organism capable to build a crystalline, similar to glass, sufficiently thick to contain some internal pressure and moist, and a black porous life, sustance inside, to retain heat. A very active "plant" capable of efficient energy capture, and generate heat inside while the whether cold. The porous material allow to retain easily the heat.
A biological design similar to a solar thermal plant with heat and chemical accumulation.
And roots that could penetrate in the "soil" (very cold) using some chemicals to break it even at these temperatures.
PV requires direct sunlight
No. PV can work with diffuse light.
Free neutrons have a half-life of about 10.3 minutes, or 14.9 minutes depending how you measure it. That means they decay to a proton and electron by the time they reach the orbit of Mercury.
Reference: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb … roton.htmlThe only neutron radiation near the Moon is generated from the lunar surface by impact of charged particles. That's why Lunar Prospector was able to measure neutron radiation to gain information about lunar soil.
No. Half life means that in that time, it would be half neutrons. So, some neutrons always hit.
Radiation in long term need huge protection so it is easy to dig a simple tunnel and live there.
When you grow, you can grow the cave, downwards if neccesary, and pump the material out. It takes a lot of time, but you can grow.
If you want to build a huge dome, you will need a huge effort and it would be useless until was completed.
Certainly, both approaches could be combined and it could be chosen depending on the resources.
For really small body with gravity near neglible, even rotated colonies deformed to compensate gravity, (like inverted cones) could be build.
I think that if the body is so small that any open terraformation is impractical, then underground colonies could be a better alternative.
With time, the underground colonies could be so big and cover so much surface than it could be considered paraterraforming with opaque roof.
If caves was big enough and well connected, even a common biosphere is possible.
Gigant stable caves are possible when gravity is so small.
Sorry. A obviusly error in my last post.
Graphene spheres could be lighter that any gas, but the weight of the gas depends on pressure. So and certain altitude, it had the same density and the light gas cross easily.
But it could be a useful tool. By the same reason the pressure don't change, these balls don't change with the temperature, so it could be useful in a active cooling system, because the layer was stable no matters which temperature has. With a layer under the temperature for make oxygen liquid at that pressure it would create a freeze floating "wall" (a compact "gas" made of balls) that force oxygen to go down again.
Titan has a thick atmosphere, as dense as Earth, and it not lose it.
What is the key? It is very cold and it has molecules too heavy to reach escape velocity at that temperature.
Could we have a moon at the Titan's atmosphere pressure but at Earth temperatures and breathable?
To the question of temperature, some methods could been proposed, like the active towers. The Earth's temperature is required in the layers near the ground, where they are living beings, while the loss of the atmosphere occurs in the outer layer, where the molecules are unlikely to collide with each other, and it could get up escape velocity and lost forever.
This issue can become so deep that it could lead to the development of a future branch of geoengineering. About how the heat is distributed by the layers of the atmosphere, and as radiation, convection and conduction between the gas creates the gradient.
Assume for a moment that this is not a problem. Ganymede dense atmosphere, for example, would isolate the heat generated by light from artificial fusion reactors. Escaping most as radiant heat, the last layer being the more "transparent" to these, so that the heat escape transparently maintaining very cold the upper.
The second is more complicated. Molecules? Heavy? A "unsolvable" problem occurs. Heavy molecules tend to be lower in the atmosphere, so that would probably unbearable for earthlings. And the necessary O2 and N2 would remain light, rising up and losing equally.
Here is an idea that has been haunting me. What if we make very large molecules ... heavy, but simultaneously form a very light gas?
Is that possible?
The first question you must understand is that the gas density depends on the space between molecules, not only of these. These molecules are separated from one another by various fundamental forces, creating a "rejection space". Is your weight, divided into the space, which will form the density. Another thing is that the molecules usually tend to create a similar space, since the effective space is much larger than the molecule, so they tend to create similar areas. So, normally, we could considerate that density depends only of molecular weight.
But this need not be so.
Imagine a sphere totally made of graphene. The area would be very small. I'm talking about hundreds of thousands of carbon atoms, not more. Inside, just empty space. Its effective space is huge, because they are areas "impenetrable". The number of carbon atoms grow with surface. The effective space of the "molecule" with the volume. With an area of sufficient size, density would be lower even than the less dense molecule ... hydrogen.
Yet this "molecules" would be very heavy! With lots of atoms.
So, these molecules tends to be at the top of atmosphere, but at the same time, it would be too heavy to reach scape speed. It could be a wonderful tool to make dense atmosphere relative stable in time. When a "molecule" of this kind breaks, it probably turns into a broken ball more dense and drops to the low atmosphere.
It may have defects. It is possible that the material proposed (graphene) did not have the right properties. For example, you may not be able to sustain its vacuum state for long because other molecules could pass through the graphene using tunnel effect. But it is possible that may exist other alternatives for the same purpose. For example, with larger areas, although some molecules enter the density molecules take longer to go down. The issue is not that they are always empty, but its state of lighter molecules that hydrogen could be sustained long enough. The location of a graphene layer could perhaps use a multilayer model with some technology that would allow these layers remain in a stable state.
The question would be to have these "balls" lighter than hydrogen stable long enough to need little repleshing.
I think I agree with Hop here. Unlike some solar system bodies, Luna is not screaming for an atmosphere, no matter how romantic it would be. Considering the difficulty and trade-offs involved, I think it is best to leave our Moon as it is.
Don't let that discourage wild speculation though!
I'm not so sure.
Have an atmosphere allow you to aerobrake, so you have a gain on descending.
On another point, escape velocity is only 8.5 km/h aprox. It sounds like a manageable speed with a thin atmosphere for a heat shield.
Of course is more easy without atmosphere, but only from Moon to space.
So, in short term, Moon is best as is.
But once you have a colony in L4-L5, and a growing colony on the Moon with bidirectional trading from-to the Moon, a minimal atmosphere could be an advantage for protection and mitigate the extreme temperatures.
Moon will have a space elevator and rail launcher for "short" distances (Earth, L4/L5 colonies, ...).
I think that you are very optimist. Passive or "medium passive" methods like use special gasses on little quantities to generate a possitive feedback that could need centuries only to wait to get the correct temperature. But generete an little percent of gas ammount into an atmosphere, is huge for us. For example, change the CO2 in Earth Atmosphere to change the little quantity of CO2 that out atmosphere contains have required a century, massive process of burning carbons that is easy because generate energy, don't consume it and don't require advanced technology.
And it was burning is all our machines, the machines that work for a population of billions of humans.
Although CO2 have been generated as a waste it could show us, how difficult is any kind of planetary engineering that is some orders of magnitude bigger that change a little the composition of out atmosphere.
With current technology, it could require from thousands to hundred of thousands years to complete a terraforming. Perhaps Mars could be an exception and, if all is in the better case, it could be completed in some hundred of years. We need more investigation to check it.
But things like remove all carbon from venus atmospheres is a lot more complicated.
I think that future technologies could change that, but bring this technologies to reality need time. Only make fusion energy feasible requires now decades, and fusion will be necessary only to make a serius colonization in centuries instead millennia. So terraforming is far, far away.
Perhaps, future technologies like selfreplication machines could change some orders of magnitude to make terraforming feasible. I hope it. But the numbers are really big in any case.