New Mars Forums

I am just confirming that there are no radiation problems on Titan. Haven't got the proof handy but I read about it. Its distance from Saturn is pretty large.

No problem at all, Karov. It's just an offtopic. I'm pretty busy these days but will read all the new posts on terraformation and will email Paul B. some time this week.

Hi Karov, welcome on board!

I can see you're from Bulgaria. I am Russian living in Australia. I like your posts, optimism, which I share and I also read the papers on the quick terraforming, spinning and moving planets. The papers were written some time ago and there were no updates. Pity, the guy is not part of this forum. Should we invite him? He could contribute a lot.

As in other threads about terraforming, it's arguable. Your formulas might be right but there's more. I won't repeat my points in other threads and what other people said about this but "colder moons" of the solar system - Callisto, Ganymede (Jupiter) and Titan (Saturn) will always be much colder. Terraforming may not be exactly making planets copies of Earth but maing them habitable - (hopefully) with breathable atmosphere, enough water, fauna and flora.

The colder moons have already plenty of water - frozen. Their mass/size shows they must consist partially of water. Given the right atmosphere and enough heat to enable plants and animals to survive - may be enough. If the air temperatures are -20 C at least - we may have some underground salty waters and liquid water under a crust of ice - where primitive creatures and/or fish may live. People will wear warm clothes and live in warm buildings.

Titan is too cold and has only 1% of the solar energy compared to Earth. Because of that the changes of terraforming Titan are slim, not because of its low gravity.

Water and hydrogen are not the same thing, are they? Water is heavier than hydrogen, even if it's vaporized. Hydrogen atoms are locked with oxygen atoms. Water vapor will build clouds in a thick atmosphere (provided the temperature range is within norm) and then precipitate. Do we need pure hydrogen for terraforming a planet?

Thanks. Yes, I read your list before and similar calcs. According to your your calculations Mars can't hold a significant atmosphere and water (hydrogen) but it's now proven that Mars had an ocean. This means it had both thick atmosphere and could hold surface water. Besides, as discussed in this topic, the volatiles could be replenished gradually as the Moon starts to lose some of its atmosphere.

Venus is much closer to the Sun, receives 80% more of the solar energy than Earth. It's gravity is 90% of the Earth but it holds an atmosphere 95 times thicker and much taller than Earth's.

Titan, although colder and further from the Sun, has only 2/3 of the Lunar mass and gravity but it's atmosphere is 200 km tall and 1.5 times thicker than on Earth.

I am not a scientist but I can only say that there are too many factors to be taken into account - albedo first of all, surface temperatures, closed cycles (water or other volatiles), contents of the atmosphere. It may also depend on how quickly the atmosphere is created and what its initial structure is. First, I see a lot of ice deposited on the poles and randomly buried underground, then when a lot of gas is released and a water cycle is created that will reflect a lot of solar light and lower the temperatures on the lit side.

Of course, if only a small amount of gas is released on Luna, it will escape into space when hit by the Sun.

Cindy suggested to post the link I gave in another thread before.

Posting the link where it's appropriate.

Enjoy!http://www.geocities.com/ares2101/Jovian_Terraforming.html]The Jovian Terraforming

Rxke,

Yes, it's a good idea but I don't know if just redirecting asteroids to the Moon is enough, but it is cheaper, anyway.

To REB

100,000 year is plenty of time for the humanity to think about an efficient way to replenish the atmosphere. Also, as I posted before, making ice deposits should make it easier.

Thanks for your post, Cindy!

I hope we don't get such a huge asteroid that can hit both Earth and the Moon, unless it's an asteroid rain. The value in terraforming is having more living space for plants, animals and humans, not just for the event Earth gets hit. Luna is one of the few planets that could be terraformed or at least, colonized and we should use it.

MarsDog, having the atmosphere will not make launch much more difficult but even unbreathable atmosphere will make landing and flying so much cheaper. E.g. landing on Mars is at the moment much less of a problem because it has some atmosphere. Manufacturing will be much easier on a terraformed planet for everyone.

For humanity a million years is a long period. If the temperatures are under 0 degrees C it'll be warm enough for creatures to survive but gases won't escape that fast. Same applies to terraforming Ganymede and Callisto. The escaped atmosphere can be topped up later on.

It is now proven now that Mars had an ocean for a long period. It means it held the atmosphere as well. Why Mars lost its ocean is unknown. It could be that impact that created Hellas basin and Tharsis bulge. There were discussions saying that Mars could not have any liquid water on the surface because of its low gravity. Titan, as well as Callisto and Ganymede could all hold a large atmosphere and surface water. Salty seas/oceans would stay liquid in cold temperatures.

I wouldn't downplay Mars, even if this thread is about Venus. Mars is still the "easiest" to terraform. Even the Moon might turn out easier to terraform than Venus.

I support the teraformation of both planets, if it were possible in parallel, not one after the other. There will be benefits, not only costs if terraforming starts in more than one place at a time.

I agree that terraformable planets are few but in my list of terraformable or paraterraformable planets I have: Mars, the Moon, Venus, Ganymede, Callisto, Mercury and maybe even Titan. Even outposts could be quite big. We could settle both large areas around poles on Mercury where there are deposits of ice.

Thanks for answering, guys. So, there are no big issues with terraforming our natural sattelite, just the same old problem with financing and the will to do it.

With large deposits of ice on both poles (someone has to put them there) the atmosphere and life could be sustained much easier. Run out of gas - melt some ice - and here we go. I'm sure the thicker the initial atmosphere is the longer it will. The moon will need the water cycle too. So the Moon will require oceans. Aitkin basin (the impact crater) would be the deepest ocean (or sea) in the Solar system - 13 km deep - that's deeper than Hellas basin on Mars!

Yeah, Shaun flying over the Moon would be great fun. You could probably use large umbrellas as parachutes too, if the atmosphere was thick enough.

We'll have problem sleeping here on Earth when the moonlight is shining. With the Moon having Earth's atmosphere it would be so bright, that you could read!

Maybe to get any terraforming of Venus started people need to be on or around it first. The plan is great. They eventually get sick of floating and think how to make Venus a better home, so they can walk on the ground too.

To REB.

I want to see most planets terraformed, or at least paraterraformed and colonized. Venus might number 3 after Mars and the Moon(!) or number 4 after one of the Jovian moons (Callisto, Ganymede or both). It might be Mercury after Venus. Sooner or later Venus will be terraformed, it's too close, too big to be ignored for long.