New Mars Forums

Now there is something we can agree on. 

Yeah, the question is, why do we tolerate that kind of intolerant behavior?

No, but we can rename it Humanities Suicidal Death Spiral if you would prefer.

I for one eagerly await the day I can travel to and from Earth and Mars, and a few other places within the inner solar system at will as a private citizen.

Elastic items teld to lose elasticity after a while.

The most practical way we currently have to build large simulated gravity spacecraft or stations is to string several Shuttle/Ares tanks and spent stages together. This would provide lots of volume with minimal extra structural mass.

I think that is the most effective way to go for the Moon, Mars, and beyond, on the surface and in space. Even the humble Ares I contains a second stage  with dimensions ranging near 18' x 100', with an internal volume that dwarfs the ISS. The Ares V EDS stage could do better. Then theres the big enchilada, the ET itself. Think about that. An ISS sized station or larger for tiny fraction of the cost and time.

Theres challenges of course. Devising an outer coated to shield the hull from wide temperature swings while isolating the fuel it contains, deposing of or exploiting the J2X, and engineering an interstage segment that allows access for personnel and bulky cargo to the interior to the H2 and LOX tanks and connecting to other spent stages without compromising either. And figuring out how to get them to through atmospheres and safely on a surface. Nows the time to flesh it out more, before we get stuck.

I'd like to see NASA fling a ET into orbit before we retire the shuttle, just to see how it holds up out of the box.

We should spread the remains of Arthur C Clark on Europa. 

When discussing human colonization, and ultimately terraforming, I think that on Mars you have to approach it from the exact opposite direction as on Earth. Here, when humans arrived in a new area they had an overabundance or resources, and were only limited by man power. You could make a small investment and the colony would, more or less, take care of itself. On Mars you have to have everything in place first. You can't send a hundred people without sending either all their habs with them, or having someone/thing there building it already.

This will always be the case. So by the time you have enough people to consider terraforming, they literally won't need it. What would they need all that empty space for? The biggest use we have is agriculture, and they will have already developed all new methods for a much smaller footprint. Google the Vertical Farm sometime.

The only real use would be to create a giant Earth park for a new home for any of Earths wildlife that can adapt, and any we can create. A noble goal, but far from a question of survival. And such a pattern will be repeated just about anywhere that isn't Earthlike.

If this was radioactive material, what would cause it to be distributed in this sort of... pattern?

Obama doesn't wear a pin because he wishes to differentiate himself from those who do, who support the war on Islamic fascism, particularly the war in Iraq. Thats fine.

People only question his patriotism when they take a good hard look at the policies he's suggesting, and our enemies say that his policies help them reach their goals.

Here's the source material in a format we can all enjoy.

Look, I know Obama has devoted following of people who think he belches puppies and sunshine, but there is nothing in there except excuses and the same tired old liberal class warfare rhetoric that even makes this an issue in the first place.

Religion is suppose to be the search for eternal truth that applies equally to everyone, and if Obama says he routinely disagrees with Wright on the tactical, political applications of Christian principles, something tells me he's not there for the theology, but for the weekly socio-economic pep rally, or perhaps more accurately, two minute hate. Mrs. Obamas statements would seem to confirm this.

The fact Obama is so quick to jettison race in a race speech in favor of class should tell you that race is not the controlling social factor. That black people had the misfortune of receiving all their civil rights at the same time as liberals were putting everyone on welfare only proves that blacks are just as much, and by the numbers disproportionately more, the victims of those policies as anyone else who was poor at the time.

To Mr. Wrights credit, he at least has a clue that blacks and the poor in general have not gotten what they have been promised by their favorite political party. They however have gotten all they the democrats can and ever will deliver, as neither the country nor the party afford what they promise, cause neither would exist if they really tried. This is were Mr. Wright loses it, and with Obama still spouting the same failed policies, he is apparently incapable of any better.

Whether or not Obama can personally separate class as race remains to be seen, but his wife clearly can not. His policies do not. And that is what makes him unsuitable for public office.

Even it it didn't deliver the mass to orbit promised (20tons), it would still be suitable for moving larger crews(more than 6) to LEO, and once Lunar LOX production gets going, providing the far lighter LH2 to a fuel depot.

The real question is whether it can do the rate of launch intended. It's worth the effort to find out.