New Mars Forums

As a postscript to my own last post,  on Jacob Haqq-Misr's Liberation of Mars paper, I disagree with him that there should be no trade permitted between Earth and Mars. This is stated among five principles (p4):

1. Humans who leave Earth to permanently settle on Mars relinquish their planetary
citizenship as Earthlings and claim a planetary citizenship as Martians. This includes
giving up any national or local citizenships and affiliations. Humans living as
Martians cannot represent the interests of any group on Earth and cannot acquire
wealth on Earth.
2. Governments, corporations, and individuals of Earth cannot engage in commerce
with Mars and cannot interfere with the political, cultural, economic, or social
development of Martian civilization.
3. Scientific exploration may continue as long as it does not interfere with the
development of civilization on Mars. Sharing of research and information between
Mars and Earth is permitted only to pursue mutual scientific or educational goals.
4. The use of land on Mars will be determined exclusively by the citizens of Mars. No
Earthlings may own or otherwise lay claim to land on Mars.
5. Any technology, resources, or other objects brought from Earth to Mars become
permanent fixtures of the Martian civilization. Earthlings may not make any
demands for resources on Mars.

Perhaps others can put me straight on why a trade ban would be necessary, but it seems to me that

- a starter colony, even if self-sufficient in terms of life-support in the short-term, would require trade in order to replenish spare parts and to grow
- depending on gifts from Earth instead of trade (as Haqq-Misr suggests) opens the way to those gifts being used to influence decisions:
"Any equipment brought with the crew permanently becomes Martian property; gifts or aid
provided by Earth can be accepted but only without remuneration, and trade is strictly
prohibited. "

Is trade necessarily going to mess up a new and free Mars? How else will they grow if people lose interest in gifting them expensive equipment?

So while I think his paper has a lot going for it, I am not yet convinced it will work. It cuts directly against another paradigm of colonisation, which allows individuals and corporations to invest in colony-building for financial gain. After all, just getting to Mars and setting up will prove expensive to do, even with Elon Musk's $500,000 tickets.

Any comments?

Thanks. Yes, so the Bruhns and Haqq-Misra paper could serve as a structure for reconciling disputes and setting limits on one colony's land-grabbing.

I respect your commitment to scientocracy but I'll have to read up on it before I can have much of an opinion. Except to say a note of caution- human nature being as fractured as it is, it would not be long before someone subverts it to their own ends.
But for sure Earth politics is bust, compromised and ineffective, and maybe always has been, so Mars needs something better.

1. Exile does sound like a realistic sentence for major crimes.  At least,  as a would-be writer of SF it sounds dramatic to me.
The practicalities of it are something else- who pays for the exile's ticket.
For native-born Martians how about an ice-mine at the polar cap?
Seriously let's leave the details of the penal system to the experts. A restorative justice system has a great deal to recommend it though.

2. LS free in public places or 'cities' yes. But no free lunch for the able-bodied or you end up with loafers. Community service, rotas of duties to keep things running. Just suggestions.

3. Yes!
4. It depends on SpaceX business model.  If they're truly selling seats on a bus, what's to stop the Mars Society or Mars One or the Amish buying up 100 or 200 seats and building their own settlement?
This would assume that any group doing this contracted out for habitats and equipment and supplies. Who's to force them to stay put with everyone at the landing area? With transport they could head off into the wide red yonder.

Enough dreaming for now.... gotta do the washing up.

Good points. There is a lot of enthusiasm about 'going' to Mars, but how many will stay. Optimistically, when a real crewed mission is underway, perhaps a new generation of school children will be inspired to study more technical subjects and excel in them, so there *will* be a glut of suitable, motivated people. But perhaps not.