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I sense that you're bored .   so I entertain you .  just don't blow the main pump .  what is going on it's not a normal change .  I believe this is a 500 year change . arrogant   thinking  will not help. actually we are more blessed than you can ever imagine .  but you're going to have to adapt to a changing world .

GW Johnson what you have said and this link;

http://www.1913intel.com/2014/05/12/why … rest-blog/

suggest that "WE" do not have as much clout as "WE" wish we did.  I think we were in the leadership say 20 years ago (Culturally), but I am not sure that we can persuade the whole world to see reality from our viewpoint to that degree anymore.

lightning in the cracks of the ice .  piezo electric effect .  maybe ..earthquake reportedly have electrical discharges .  inner liquid ocean at 1 in electrical potential .  outer surface in vacuum .  bombarded by sunlight radiation and magnetism .  ice is in electrical insulator .  but the cracks in the ice especially if they're contaminated with other substances might conduct electricity .    observable path of lightning might be across the surface of the I might just be observable .  sprites in the thin atmosphere unlikely .  but I think its okay to look for them .  we didn't know they occurred in the upper atmosphere of Earth until relatively recently .  could in electrical discharge create a body of liquid water in a crack nearer to the surface than the ocean .  What?  Better manners would be welcome.

I respect your thinking.

But it is the argument about blind people and an elephant.  I perceive one part, you another.

Part of the argument about Ganymede is should Callisto be preferred first, and similarly if a research/small colony is established on Callisto instead,
what is the potential for Titan?  Let Callisto lead to Ganymede and Titan.  Surely no effort would go to Ganymede without first setting foot on
Callisto.

But my interest is broader.  In the search for life in the universe the true objective is religious.  It is ruling powers trying to determine
a story of who should have the highest powers of rulership over humans and animals and all living things, and finally all reachable matter.
it is a religious and financial struggle.  Who gets to rule?

I do not subscribe to their contest.  I rather am interested in worlds which have nitrogen dominant atmospheres.  Earth and Titan are those.

So, a "Habitability" zone as defined by those looking for a second genesis is defined by the existence of a second example of life "Evolved"
independently.  Why?  They want to uproot the religious establishment, and so gain access to the cash register.  Not a science objective, but a
political one.

I rather am interested in the belt between Earth and Titan.  Those are the worlds which might in an understandable fashion support a humanoid
civilization.  Will humans cross between stars ever?  Not known.  Not if they are all dead.

Maybe if they persist in some fashion.  So there is a maybe, so far, since we currently exist.

Extended human life span (1000 years or more?) and advanced propulsion and life support, and perhaps some type of  alteration of the human
form, may allow a humanoid to cross between stars.

What should they seek?

If an Earth, in a habitable zone, it either has life that produces an partial oxygen atmosphere or it doesn't.  If not, then perhaps too much CO2,
by now with the nature of stars getting warmer.  If life then a moral issue, and also an infectious issue.

Some persons look for habitable moons, but Jupiter's are actually fairly rare around stars studied.  And large moons are likely rare, and in our
solar system those in the outer solar system are ice dominated, except Io.

So, I am interested in Earth like worlds outside the outer boundary of the habitable zone.  I am hoping that they would have plate tectonics, and that
an area like Iceland would be exposed.  Hot springs whatever.  A place to set foot.  Then with methods learned on Titan, make the whole world
habitable to a "Civilization" of human descended "Humanoids".  Red Dwarf "M" stars are the most common.  It is possible that they might have planets
Earth size with tidal heating in some cases.  This might help to make them more useful, if they also have a nitrogen dominated atmospheres, then
they are of a greater interest.  The lessons learned from Earth and Titan, and also Jupiter's and Saturn's Moons could be important.

But I am deviating from Ganymede aren't I?  But part of the argument is where focus should be.  While it is worthwhile to think about Ganymede, my
interests are elsewhere.  But I will stop at this post, as I have expressed what I wanted to.

You certainly can resume Ganymede with or without my consent.  (You have my consent if it matters)

I guess I will intrude.

One factor is Jupiters gravity well.  It is likely to be easier to get equipment onto Callisto than the other moons.  Also easier to send materials from Callisto to other places in the solar system.  Unless I have missed some clever space travel trick.

As for the submerged oceans, ice having a lesser specific gravity than liquid fresh water, about .9 ????  any verticle shaft will be unstable if filled with liquid water.  I have thought that a oil with specific gravity similar to the surrounding ice could fill such a verticle shaft.  It would be easier to keep liquid anyway.  But where to get so much oil?  An elivator with electic tracks might navigate the vertical shaft.

As for the radiation belts, I believe that a long time ago I encountered an article based on the thinking of a Russian for ejecting most of the particles from it.  I think this reference is related to that:
http://www.tethers.com/papers/Hoyt_ES_RBR_Final.pdf

As for habitats, I think it would be rather easy to build underground chambers of a large size filled with water and air, or just water and whatever.

As for energy, on the surface, because the moons have very little in the way of seasons, it would be easy to put linear solar concentrators, where the effort to keep them pointed correctly will be relatively small.

Also, I would think that tethers (Space Elivators) anchored to the moons or to their gravity wells, where the magnetic field of Jupiter was passing through them would be a good source of energy.  Also perhaps just a grid of cables layed on the surface.

As for IO, I have read that it would not be habitable due to the quakes?  The tides?  Still I  would be tempted to think of flinging ice from Europa on to it to "Paraterraform" it.  Lots of energy on that moon.

As for atmosphere?  That would be nice, but I believe that Titan just barely holds on to Nitrogen.  I would be pleased if one of the moons could do it, but I have reservations that it could happen.  Jupiters moons get much more solar energy than Titan don't they?  But then again Jupiters magnetic field keeps the solar wind away from Ganymede doesn't it?

okay how about a solar ring of Paladium.  in association with the orbit of Venus.  Where the paladium absorbs hydrogen, and then crashes into Venus.  Paladium from asteroids?

Not wishing to disturb other thought efforts here but I have a question.  Can Sulfuric Acid be a Oxidizer for a rocket?

I found just this, implying that to a degree it can be:

http://www.google.com/patents/US2489051

I am not sure what application could be used on Venus, or in floating cities, but it is of interest to me.
Drop Metals from the Moon or asteroids to the cities, and then they make fuels from that, and also use Sulfuric Acid as an Oxidizer?

Or is there a flaw in that thinking?

The significant effort I would try at this time not knowing a better plan would be to eliminate the Sulphuric Acid and water clouds and vapors.

http://www.daviddarling.info/encycloped … atmos.html

I would like to poke a hole in the greenhouse Venus with hopes to cause CO2 percipitation.  This could destabalize Venus by causing a disruption of the stratification of the atmosphere.

I agree that under most plans there are no short term payoffs.  However with the plan to have floating habitats, then a payoff is possible in the nearer term.

Make enought of those, and extract the components of the Sulphuric Acid, and you can fill them in part with the water leaving the atmosphere of Venus "Dry".  In the nightime it may be possible that solid or even liquid percipitant could increase and fall downwards causing a downdraft, and also pushing hot air on the sun side upwards to be exposed to an increasing amount to the cooling effects of space.

I don't actually like the notion of habitats in an acid environment like that, but perhaps with materials on the Moon these could be constructed, and then moved to Venus and with heat shields survive entry.

The Sulphur if it could be brought to orbit I believes makes a good metal, if it is in a vacuum.

None of this would be easy, but I like it best.

Beyond the habitats, if the surface could become half as hot, perhaps a machine mining industry could be remotely run from the floating habitats.

None of it easy, but I have yet to hear anyone come up with an easy plan that could actually work.  Usually the plans call for hundreds and thousands of years before there could be a possibility of a payoff at all, so I like this one because payoffs are more available during the improvement process.

Oh I appologize, I did not get what you were proposing.  Clever.  Of course it is not the same, as the head would experience significantly less synthetic gravity than the legs, but never-the-less, some data similar to an actual artificial spinning world in space.  If the person does not get sick.  Couldn't you use one of those Merry-Go-Rounds (Modified) such as they have for children, to run some preliminary tests, and then invest in a built system?

If the person were suspended sideways, of course the Earths gravitation would act on their arms, but perhaps they could run and jump a bit.

I believe that the space program did do something like that with a wall for training crews, early in the program.

If what you propose would prove to work, and give useful data then I might also suggest:

A large circular hovercraft that spins on it's air cushion might work, with a walkway around it's perimeter, where when spinning centrifugal force could hold the persons feet to the walkway (Wall).  And the anchor point for the harness being on a track above the platform, so that once spinning, the person could walk around the track, and perhaps even run, if the anchor wheels were free enough.

The air cushion for the spinning hover craft could come out of a conduit in the ground benieth the skirted spinning hover craft, so that it would not need engines on it.  That would reduce cost I would think.

This larger size would allow a better simulation, where the synthetic gravitation experienced by the head would be closer to that experienced by the legs.

I would be tempted to return to the Moon though.  The point of that being that there are many organizations interested in the Moon, and they might through in on some sort of Moon station, even if it was 2 people for 6 months, one time.  Then we would have the Moon data, and if your centrifuge idea was also done for Moon gravitation with 2 people for 6 months, then you could compair the data, and understand just how good your Earth based simulation was at simulation of Lunar gravity's effects on the human body.

The Moon would be somewhat of a freebee, since it might be sponsored by countries like Japan and China and Russia, and also private interests.  I don't expect that the US would contribute unless the next elected government was of a much different nature than this one.

It would not hurt to have Moon data and Earth-Centrifuge data.  (If possible).

Assuming that so called civilization does not collapse, then eventually given enough time we (Or the inheritors) would have both.

Again I appologize, I should have read more carefully.  I am glad you are patient.

Not so fast T.K.

I stold this from Robert.... on another topic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_Centauri_Bb

Therefore not all the surface, and likely not much of a dark side, if the planet it tidally locked (If it exists at all).

I have my certain entertainment with the notion of life on the dark side of such planets, not ones so hot though as a rule.  But Alph Centauri of course is a draw to the imatination, if it had a planet at all.

I liked this article, it is about a probe that would enter the Venus atmosphere, and glide and float also as an airship, and it has propulsion.

So, I thought it could be an encouragement to explore Airship from Oribit, and maybe some day the reverse where such an airship could go to orbit.

http://www.space.com/24847-venus-explor … craft.html

I am thinking that for Venus this is a real potential, because Hydrogen is not as explosively dangerous there.  If you were to have floating cities, you might want this anyway.

But I am thinking that with newer materials far in the future, something like this might have a carrier plane, which would move it upward in the atmopheric column, and that "Airship to orbit" could have a booster attached to it, sufficient to send it to suborbital, and then a small onboard propulsion system to circularize the orbit.

The booster might have a balloon which would deploy after it is used, to keep it from dropping so low that it is damaged by heat.  The carrier ship might be able to go get it after it has launched the airship to orbit, and the carrier ship would bring the booster back to the floating city for reuse.

It is mentioned that the probe proposed has such a surface area to weight ratio, that it does not experience extreme heating on re-entry.

Anyway, due to the dense atmosphere of Venus, I think it could be considered as a good fit.  Obviously those who want to do that mission, though so.