New Mars Forums

I think I am not doing so bad.  Some uncomfortable realities are needed to be understood.  But I am very, very careful usually.

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I think a possible danger of the future will be expanded permissions.

How people will deal with expanded permissions, and dealing with dealing with excessive permissions.

A great problem is that now, I think that with wealth, children are imprinted on the wrong sort of subject for imprinted as per "X".  They are regarded as having no such thing as "X", when in reality even babies have safer versions of that that they imprint on.  I put myself in significant danger even mentioning it.

But the poor imprinting in my opinion is part of the problem of adults who do not successfully reproduce.

And a lack of reproduction will lead to a dying society.

I believe that many of the elites even understand that and trick the masses to embrace failure, as they have contempt for humans in general.  We are not worthy.

And so, they can do these things from the shadows, while seeming to be incredibly moral.

That is one danger that expanded permissions of material goods can do.

Another is to not be regulated by needed social factors to conform to a successful pattern.  In this coming age of abundance or social collapse.  Internal self-regulation is going to be important, as you can more ealily damage yourself, as you feel no pain in doing unwise things.

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I suppose this could be Elon Musk, it certainly sounds like that person.  But I suppose it could be "Ani" or someone else.
Whoever it is has interesting things to say.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hx7BaOF … utureFocus
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Worth a listen, in my opinion.

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I regard to the previous post, perhaps you could have dragon thrusters on the perimeter of the "Butt" or "Foot" of the giant capsule, and then an airbag in the center, that might be able to cover most or all of the "Butt" or "Foot of the giant capsule.  If so, then you might be less dependent on parachutes.

The "Locomotive" would land on a sea platform, and the giant capsule would do Dragon Retro propulsion and an air bag.
The "Locomotive" would be much less tall and much less top heavy, without the "Giant Capsule" on top of it.

The Raptor Engines would not get wetted by sea water, and it is hard to say.  Perhaps the Giant Capsule would be a limited number of uses as it would be a sized-up Cargo Dragon more or less.

If the value of the things it brings back from orbit is high enough, do you have to care about just a few uses of the Giant Capsule?

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And yes, the Giant Capsule might be turned into a 3rd stage for Starship.  But it might do an expedition and then reattach to the "Locomotive" to have the pair do the atmospheric burn together and then land separately.

Giant Capsule to the Moon and back?

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I believe I see a potential for something new, but this first: https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … d78a89f3b3
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Pause to listen again............

OK, expendable/not really, can make space stations in LEO.  Such a station could host the ability to disassemble expendable/not really Starships.

So, let's make a guess and say that we will specialize Starships a bit more.  One ship out of a collection is loaded with the parts from the expendable/not really Starships.  The Engines for instance.  Avionics and some other parts.  Some parts to be processed into metal propellants.

So, I don't know the proper number of ships for it, but let's say each expendable/not really Starship can lift itself and 250 metric tons of propellants to LEO.  So, 6 ships could lift 1500 metric tons of propellants or other cargo to LEO.

A 7th ship is used to return the valuable parts back to Earth.  It then needs a reasonably good heat shield that will work at least 1 time.

Certain parts are valuable enough such as engines to return to the surface of the planet.  So, these from the 6 expendable/not really Starships.  The fairings from the expendable/not really Starships will be converted to other uses, perhaps as metal propellants for Neumann Drive or MagDrive propulsion systems.

So, I have proposed a 6 to 1 combination.  I am not sure that is optimal.  It could be 10 to 1 or 3 to 1.

So, we can call that 1 ship the "Return Ship".

If it had the characteristics that we are familiar with, then it would have a heat shield capable of at least 1 return through the atmosphere.

And it could, we hope land with retro propulsion. 

But let's entertain a different way.  Perhaps we can enter the ship though the burn, and then split it into 2 pieces, each one landing by its own means.  For the "Return Ship", we split the ship into the "Locomotive Section" which includes the propellant tanks, and the raptors at least, and the other part to be the "Cargo Section", which will contain parts from various other expendable/not really Starships.

The "Locomotive Section" is relieved of the weight of the "Cargo Section" and so then might be able to land more easily with retro propulsion methods, on land or on a sea platform.  It will be less top heavy, so the problem of topple will be strongly reduced.

The "Cargo Section" is now a capsule falling though the atmosphere.   It does not need any further heat shielding at this point so you can put inflatable air bags, on its bottom.  You can't do that with a Dragon as it has to have a heat shield on its bottom.  But this can have parachutes like Dragon does, but they will really have to be big.  And inflatable airbags to help it splash down more safely.  And now I understand that Dragon is to have means to use thrusters to land if the parachutes do not do the job.  So, you could put thrusters on this "Cargo Section".  I think that the use of air bags on the butt end of the capsule for a water landing using parachutes and possibly thrusters, might do a good job.

But this system could also be used to bring back manufactured goods from the very large space platforms that can be created in LEO and elsewhere from the "expendable/not really Starships".

This does not say no to a very reusable Starship as has previously contemplated, but this system could be very complementary to it.

I understand that SpaceX is considering using air bags to allow the safe toppling of Starships on the Moon.  These seem to be said to weigh about 200 grams and to be of kevlar?

So, to put some on the butt end of a massive capsule which the "Cargo Section" would be, and to do a water landing might have considerable value.

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The pity is that Carl Sagan passed away.  I believe that he would have continued to analyze reality with further input of information about reality.  When he was alive, they tried to come up with some way to understand why Mars was the way it was.  Atmospheric loss was understood to be a real thing.  Earth had a Magnetic Field Mars did not so much have one.

It was a good guess.  And I think atmospheric loss was indeed a factor.  But now you indicate that magnetic fields do not have too much benefit, it seems.

But like a religion, verbalized science quickly locks into dogmas and protects them like a fortress.  In order to communicate to a crowd and get affirmation from in a quest for validation of self, to be a pretty thing, they seek the correct things to say.

At least American School for commoners, is tilted to produce verbal people with common math capabilities as the white collars that the ruling class can use to keep the blue collars in verbal cages to serve the system.

But true science has a certain measure of the blue collar in it.

Lately the effort to keep the lid on has allowed a further extension of the apointocracy.  Identifying "Minorities" such as females, the resentful sorts, to help further build up the white-collar lid.

But this is a bit cute, as it turns out that a bit of blue collar can get you some money now.

I am not hating on women except the self-ignorant ones.  It is so easy for a person including myself to be given false pride, and to cling to it.  They are not much different than I would be if given free white ruler status.  (Not racial white, rather white collar).

But it seems that given enough time the lid placed on top of us erodes despite all efforts to make it impregnable.

I hope I will indeed see an increasingly valid description of how planets like Mars operate or operated.

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A society might become less subjected to predatory factors if distributed more.

For instance, I suggest that Covid-19, of course like a subway, or a city bus.  Greater distribution means that virus expelled by an infected human is mathematically less likely to find another host.

As for criminal behaviors of some of the personal types, up close, you force the criminal to travel more to find its victims.  This consumes the criminals time, energy, and wealth more greatly.   And in a world where electric vehicles are the primary method of travel with cameras on these vehicles, a criminal is going to leave a trail for correctors to follow.  And correction will more often follow the criminal.

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There are a few topics with the word Rogue in their name.

Here is the latest gift from Isaac Arthur: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU7h53_ … saacArthur
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I myself have pondered these things.  One thing I have tried to imagine is what might happen if one of our planets were tossed out as a rogue planet.  Most rogues are likely born early in a planet generating process either interstellar or stellar.  But by thinking making one of our planets rogue, we at least have some anchor in that we know to some degree now what these worlds are like now.

I am going to make a case that I think that plate tectonics might emerge on the terrestrials, particularly Venus and of course it exists on Earth.

Since it already exists on Earth, then I will start with Earth cast out into the void.  I will not dwell on the fate of humans who may have come into existence on this Earth-like world, rather I will be interested in seeing what it might be like to be on the outside looking in and then to settle the world.

It is not certain how much of a Hydrogen/Helium atmosphere could exist.  I will say some.  Ideally not too much.  Lets be generous and say 1 bar. 

I will then argue for uphill flowing tectonic glaciers which would be in opposition to downward flowing gravitational glaciers.

If we think of planets from type 1 Stars radioactive materials will have been distributed to the planets.  Type 3 Stars early on would not have much of that to give.

OK, the Earth it tossed out.  Its atmosphere freezes to Nitrogen, Oxygen, and Argon solids and liquids for the most part.

Since the Earth's atmosphere is 1 bar pressure, if it were water vapor instead of Nitrogen, Oxygen, and Argon, the depth would be about (very loosely), 32 feet thickness over the entire surface.  But if Hydrogen and Helium flow from the void as a replacement atmosphere, it may be that electrostatic sparks will cause burns and explosions to burn the Oxygen to water.

On Pluto, I understand that Nitrogen might flow like Toothpaste.  But we don't know if it will be as warm as Pluto is, probably over time it will get colder.

I am expecting plate tectonics to keep running on this world.  In fact perhaps even faster, as the surface will be colder so the convective forces will be greater.  So solid ices and pasty textured pseudo solids may be dragged uphill by ocean spreading.  Gravitation will encourage the solids and pasty substances to flow downhill.  So there would be a contest.

So, then this brings us to the oceans of salt water.  Along the shorelines ice would be dragged uphill as it froze to the shoreline.  But again gravity would encourage it to glaciate downhill.

We can expect that the exposed seafloor spreading such as Iceland will allow lava flows above any ice covered fluids and very likely above any glaciers.  It would be very hard for ices and fluids to flow uphill onto Iceland, as the sea floor is going to drag them away from the splits, and gravity will encourage ices and fluids to flow downhill.

So, we can expect for this modified Earth that exposed geothermal energy will be available to settlers.

The Seafloor could be more and more exposed as ice is dragged upward onto the spreading seafloor.  This would expose the geothermal spreading areas unless a fluid could cover them again.  Nitrogen or Argon might do that.  But there are limited amounts of them, and several basins might collect them and render the immobile.  Also on the spreading area of the seafloor are many seamounts, and it would be very difficult for the Nitrogen, Argon, Water Ice, or Liquid Water to flow upwards against gravity.  So, we can have hopes of exposed geothermal rock.  This should be favorable for humans or aliens to utilize for simple energy, and protection from the cold of the Universe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_tectonics
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If I am not mistaken the Samali Plate would have an elevated area in Africa which would likely be exposed geothermal rock.

But on the other side of plate tectonics where one plate slides under the other, if ices behave like continental crust, then bodies of water warmed by geothermal heat should occur.

And this also could cause vast floods of water from time to time if an earthquake were to rupture an ice dam.  So you might not want to build your settlements too low in an ocean bed as they might become suddenly flooded.  A high location in Iceland or Africa might be most suitable.

It is my expectation that the radioactive decay engine of the Earth would be periodically refueled if it were a rogue planet: https://www.space.com/earth-dense-inter … ction-lost
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So, radioactive materials from dust clouds in interstellar space may rain down fresh materials which may be subducted into the insides of the Rogue Earth, refueling it's engines.

So, a Rogue Earth, might be very useful to a technological civilization, I feel.

And of course then there if Fusion.  Probably any gasses that could remain as an atmosphere on such a world will have and collect more of fusion suitable fuels.

I will discuss Venus next I believe.  I think Venus cast out into the void would become much like a Rogue Earth.

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Looking at this again:

If sent from Earth/Mars, the green areas might be storm shelter areas.  But most of the ship would have minimal protection, in transit,

But Deimos and Phobos and even Mars offer materials from shallow hill spheres, from which augmentation can be produced, to give various additional shielding.  These materials do not have to be excessively sophisticated, but might in many cases be relatively simple to make.

Protection from radiation, impactors, and thermal fluctuations would allow the significant upgrading of the devices.

We don't know how much time an individual must spend in a 1 g situation to be healthy.  It may be that a visit to a gym for a few hours a week would be enough in 1 g, and otherwise a person could spend time in more reduced synthetic gravity.

So, I argue that if that turns out to be true, orbital Mars may be healthier to occupy than the surface of Mars.  We just don't know yet.

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Expanding on the previous post, over time a conveyor belt of Starship Bodies could be moved Earth/Moon>>>Deimos/Phobos/Mars.

While i suggest a special ship to move Flaps and Motors back to Mars orbit to be used to conduct another Starship Body down to the surface, similar might eventually be done for Raptor engines specialized for landing only.

And as for fluids, there will become no point of moving things like Methane and Oxygen from Earth/Moon>>>>>>Phobos Deimos/Mars, if you can manufacture these fluids local to Mars/Phobos/Deimos.  So, this is another advantage of conducting Starship bodies to orbit Mars prior to landing them.

If an electric propulsion based on solids as the propellant, such as MagDrive or Neumann Drive could be utilized, then the characteristic of the Starship Bodies moved to Mars orbit should be determined by their ability to fly to Earth Orbit, and then do a one time landing on Mars, and then be pressure vessels to be habitats on Mars long term.

Of course you would not move humans in these ships, rather you would move them with mass produced, large ships, Earth/Moon>>>>>>>Deimos/Phobos/Mars and then by a Shuttle Ship like a Mini-Starship or NOVA (Per Stoke Space) type method to get to the surface of Mars, if that is the destination of the human.

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So in a conveyor system such as mentioned in this post and the one before it, you would not be lifting Starships off of the Earth with Flaps and Motors.  You would be reusing Flaps and Motors on Mars, and lifting them back up to orbit for reuse in the 1/3 Mars gravity field with a thin atmosphere.

Similarly if raptor engines could be specialized, the ones to lift One-Time Starships to Earth Orbit, might be reused at Earth, if they were brought down to put onto another Starship Body.

And at Mars, engines specialized for landing could be cycled in a similar way.

So when an electric transport system brings One-Time Starships to Mars orbits, it can bring Flaps and Motors, and also landing raptors, but those will be used multiple times.

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I think I see a possible convergence of useful factors, in the future of the Midwest:
1)  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_hydrogen
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2) Wind: https://www.energy.gov/eere/wind/wind-r … terization
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3) Solar: (Is interesting but not exceptional): https://www.nrel.gov/docs/libraries/gis … 855ad6e1_1  Image Quote:
*But it can be argued that solar for heat could be very valuable in the wintertime.

4) High Quality Farmland: https://www.americafem.com/2019/05/08/u … mland-map/
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A: If #1 large amounts of Natural Hydrogen are found;
B: It could be reacted with CO2 from the atmosphere in Precision Agriculture and Cellular Agriculture;
C: Producing a biomass byproduct;
D: A biochar process could produce Hydrocarbons and Biochar;
E: The Hydrocarbons could be used in various processes;
F: The biochar could be used to improve farm land and also sequester Carbon.

* The wind power could be backed up with battery systems but also solar power and also combustion of Hydrocarbons.
* If you were sequestering Carbon into improved soils as Biochar, then you could burn fossil Hydrocarbons or created Hydrocarbons without concern.

* Biochar: https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … &FORM=VIRE

* I also suggest that underbrush overgrowth in forests should be subjected to pyrolysis to yield Hydrocarbons and Biochar.  This would keep the northern woods from burning down all the time.  Perhaps it will be practical to do so when robot labor is more established for that purpose.

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You might say "Well if Precision Fermentation and Cellular Agriculture are going to replace much of the farmland, why do this effort?".  Well, if you let the farmland go back to woods, then you can have your robots harvest the underbrush and do pyrolysis on it, to create Hydrocarbons and to create Biochar to add to the woodlands.

It is also perhaps true that some marginal land suitable for some special agriculture might be upgraded with biochar.

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So, I think biochar farming will make a lot of sense for abandoned traditional farmland, and in that case you might as well create Suburban and Rural areas where the environment is maximized for healthy upbringing of human children.

Urban Areas suck for children, and especially for their parents.

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