New Mars Forums

Found this picture:

nirgal82

NTRs use regenerative cooling as well. Since Shaun's link didn't work for me I post a link to another picture of NERVA here:

http://www.f104g.demon.co.uk/space/nerva1.htm

The new rovers are pretty big, I agree...

BTW: I really hope I'm wrong on this. 

Please stop day-dreaming. There won't be a humans to Mars program anytime soon. The decision whether to go to Mars or not will be made when the ISS is finished (5-6 years from now). There will still be enough time to make it before 2020 (a landing on July 20th, 2019 would be fantastic) but a mission "before this decade is out" simply isn't going to happen.
I agree with Mark; Project Prometheus is probably a nuclear powered ion or plasma engine - the first which will actually be flown in space. That will be a huge step forward but O'Keefe didn't say anything about a manned mission so I think it will be used for unmanned robotic missions first. However an upgraded version of it and the technologies which will be developed under this program could be used for a manned mission beyond LEO later on.

This is the full article (LA Times). You have to register to read it so I post it here:

Hoping to pave the way for human exploration of Mars within the next decade, NASA is expected to announce that developing a nuclear-powered rocket is its top research priority.

The space agency is expected to request "significant resources and funding" to design a nuclear-powered propulsion system to triple the speed of space travel, theoretically making it possible for humans to reach Mars in a two-month voyage.

The Bush administration has signed off on the ambitious nuclear-rocket project -- though not specifically for the Mars landing -- and the president may officially launch the initiative during his State of the Union address on Jan. 28, NASA Administrator Sean O'Keefe said in an interview with The Times. The project, dubbed Project Prometheus, would greatly expand the nuclear propulsion plans that NASA quietly announced last year when it said it may spend $1 billion over the next five years to design a nuclear rocket. NASA and the Bush administration are keeping the lid on the details, including how much more the agency expects to request from Congress, but O'Keefe said the funding increase will be "very significant."

"We're talking about doing something on a very aggressive schedule to not only develop the capabilities for nuclear propulsion and power generation but to have a mission using the new technology within this decade," O'Keefe said.

If approved, the nuclear-powered rocket project would provide a significant boost to the Southland's aerospace industry. Caltech's Jet Propulsion Laboratory would take a major role in development of the system, and NASA is expected to ask several local aerospace concerns, including Boeing Co.'s Rocketdyne unit in Canoga Park, to help design and build the rockets.

How Congress and the public will respond to the proposal isn't clear. In 1989, President George H.W. Bush tried to generate backing for a nuclear rocket and Mars landing initiative but was derailed by congressional opposition and a lack of public support.

Some analysts question whether the president would even mention NASA in his State of the Union address, given the nation's budget woes and the potential war in Iraq.

Also, critics have long argued against the dangers of using nuclear technology in space. And NASA's plans for its new rocket system are still vague. One possibility would be to launch a spacecraft using a conventional hydrogen-chemical combustion rocket and then turn on a nuclear propulsion system once the craft is in orbit. Another suggestion is that astronauts would assemble the nuclear system in space before embarking on a long mission.

Developing a new propulsion system has been talked about for decades as perhaps the only means by which humans can truly explore the solar system. NASA spent 13 years and more than $10 billion trying to develop nuclear rocket technology in the 1950s and 1960s, but the idea was abandoned in the face of technological and political barriers.

NASA scientists believe that advances in nuclear reactors and rocket propulsion systems as well as lessons learned from past failures will give the quest for a nuclear rocket new life. Howard McCurdy, a public affairs professor at American who wrote a book about O'Keefe's predecessor, Daniel S. Goldin, said it was not unusual for presidents to launch bold NASA initiatives during a time of crisis. One of the nation's biggest space programs, the space shuttle, was launched by President Nixon during a recession as a way to jump-start California's economy. However, Nixon also rejected NASA's proposal to land men on Mars.

The new rocket proposal also represents a significant change at the agency, which has typically been driven by quests to get somewhere such as the moon, Mars or the outer planets and then developed the technologies to do so.

Instead, O'Keefe has begun shifting the agency's focus to developing so-called enabling technologies to carry out missions, whatever they may be.

"The laws of physics are the only things controlling how fast we go anywhere, what we do and whether we can survive the experience," O'Keefe said. "So until we beat the technical limitations ... you basically end up arguing about fantasy missions."

O'Keefe said NASA's goal will be to build a rocket three times faster than the current generation of spacecraft, which travel 18,000 mph. The new spaceships would have small nuclear reactors, which would give the engines greater thrust and virtually unlimited fuel supply.

If the designs succeed, spacecrafts could reach Mars in two months, compared with six to seven months using current rocket systems.

"We've been restricted to the same speed for 40 years," O'Keefe said. "With the new technology, where we go next will only be limited by our imagination."

Last year, NASA officials did not encounter the kind of political resistance they expected when they announced the initial idea for developing a nuclear rocket, which emboldened them to propose a broader initiative that might muster widespread public support.

"I've been told OMB [the Office of Management and Budget] treated NASA quite well," said John Logsdon, a space policy expert at George Washington University.

NASA will also propose boosting its research to protect astronauts from adverse conditions in space. Space station astronauts are returning to Earth with a 30% decrease in muscle mass as well as a 10% loss of bone mass. They are also subjected to harmful radiation, roughly equivalent to getting eight chest X-rays a day.

"For any long-duration human flight, we need to find a way to mitigate or shield against these effects," O'Keefe said.

One reason President Bush may support the nuclear-rocket initiative is because there is significant concern that the nation is running short on scientists and engineers, analysts said. The number of students studying science and engineering has been steadily eroding while engineers and scientists who pioneered much of the world's most advanced aerospace technologies have retired, creating a gap in the nation's technological know-how and competitiveness.

Bush "may see this as a way to propel more students to go into science," McCurdy said.

Yes!! Now I'm a Senior Member!

Great news:

NASA eyes nuclear-powered rocket

Agency expected to seek funding to develop way to travel 3 times faster

PETER PAE

Los Angeles Times

Hoping to pave the way for the human exploration of Mars within the next decade, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration is expected to announce that developing a nuclear-powered rocket is its top research priority.

The space agency is expected to request "significant resources and funding" to design a nuclear-powered propulsion system to triple the speed of current space travel, theoretically making it possible for humans to reach Mars in a two-month voyage.

The Bush administration has signed off on the ambitious nuclear-rocket propulsion project, dubbed Project Prometheus -- though not specifically for the Mars landing -- and the president may officially launch the initiative during his State of the Union address on Jan. 28, NASA Administrator Sean O'Keefe said.

The initiative would greatly expand the nuclear propulsion plans that NASA quietly announced last year when the agency said it may spend $1 billion over the next five years to design a nuclear rocket.

NASA and the Bush administration are keeping the lid on the details, including how much more it expects to request from Congress, but O'Keefe said the funding increase will be "very significant."

I somehow get the feeling that Dubya wants to make his daddy's dream (humans to Mars) come true...Are we in for another Space Exploration Initiative, this time with more reasonable goals and a more reasonable cost estimate?

It still would be a lot cheaper to develop such a vehicle than an SSTO HTOL which is *impossible* with today's technology. We could start the development of a VTOL RLV today but we'll have to wait at least another 20 years before the technologies which are required to build HTOL spaceplanes become available. I want cats *now*, not when I'm dead.

Once again, you can't compare aircraft to orbital RLVs. Maybe I'll post additional information on why VTOL is better tomorrow, I'm off for now.

soph

No, I don't. Of course NASA's budget should be doubled or trippled, no question about that. But that has nothing to do with the fact that a VTOL design would be superior to a HTOL or VTHL design. Also throwing money at problems does not always make them go away...

The X-33 program might well have succeeded if NASA had made the "right" choice.

Mark

I completely agree.

soph

The last time NASA tried to develop an SSTO spaceplane with "lighter materials, better fuels, and more efficient engines" it turned out to be infeasible to build such a vehicle (at least within budget and on schedule). I'm speaking of the X-30/NASP/"Orient Express".

VTOL is possible today, no breakthroughs required. If NASA had selected McDonnell Douglas' X-33 proposal (a VTOL design) we might well be on our way to achieving CATS but instead NASA opted for LockMart's Vulture Stool (VTHL).