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#551 Re: Terraformation » Terraforming Venus - methods anyone? » 2004-04-08 10:54:16
Kippy, you came up with the same idea I did about using a gas giant's hydrogen to turn Venus' CO2 into water and carbon.
I hate wasting resources, and everyone kept saying, lets blast Venus atmosphere away, or lets turn it into Oxygen. Blasting it away is a waste of resources (The Solar System does have finite resources and it is a long way to the next system), and a pure oxygen atmosphere would not be stable, so I thought, "Lets turn it to water." I have been pushing the idea on several space boards across the internet, but not too many people have taken it seriously. It is nice to see someone else has the same idea.
I found this site yesterday. I have been reading through some of the older post and I saw yours being the first to mention this. I have been posting on habitablezone for years, but I like this site better. I think I’ll stick around a while.
#552 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Cycler Spaceships - Ships going between Earth and Mars » 2004-04-08 09:25:33
I see your point, Bill. Cycler ships would be great for people, but for cargo, they don’t make a lot of sense. With cargo, your mass is with the cargo, the engines and the fuel. People, on the other hand, need a lot of extra mass. I like Buzz’s idea of these cycler ships being luxurious hotels
I don’t know if a cycler ship would be practical to get people to the Moon and then back to Earth. I am reminded of the luxury transatlantic liners of the early 1900’s.
People could travel in style, like in a nice hotel. So why don’t we have those today? Because an airplane can get you across the Atlantic in less than a day. People prefer speed over luxury.
If we can get a ship to the Moon in a day, people will not want to ride in a luxery hotel that takes a couple of days.
#553 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Cycler Spaceships - Ships going between Earth and Mars » 2004-04-08 08:24:52
[http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0202/07marshotels/]Cycler Spaceship
I had thought of a similar idea, and I thought it was unique, until a friend pointed me to that web page. Buzz Aldrin beat me to it.
I was thinking what a waste of energy it would be to slow a ship down from Mars, just to drop people and supplies off, just to pick up more people and supplies and accelerate back to Mars.
At first, I was wondering if there would be a ways for an incoming ship to transfer its energy to an outgoing ship. Basically they switch their speed and course. Somehow, they would have to join and then switch places, and I have no idea how that could be engineered.
In the old days of Steam Engines, trains would grab mailbags hanging by the track. This saved energy, otherwise the train would have to slow down, stop, pick up the mail, and then start up again. It also saved time.
Back to our Earth/Mars ship, just have the main mass in a constant orbit between Mars and Earth. Why waste energy slowing it down, just to waste more energy speeding it up? Ferry people and supplies out to it in smaller taxies. Sure, the smaller ships would have to use energy to catch the Earth/Mars ship, but we are talking much less mass, and so less energy.
But Buzz already thought of this 
Oh well. I am glad someone is seriously thinking about it.
#554 Re: Terraformation » Terraforming Venus - methods anyone? » 2004-04-08 07:30:57
Thank you for your input, Chat and Robert.
With regards to Venus’ Nitrogen, I don’t know if any is bound to the surface rocks. It has probably all been cooked out. I believe Venus and the Earth have about the same Carbon Dioxide and Nitrogen, but most of Earth’s is in the rocks soil and oceans.
Robert, you may be right. Venus may need to hang onto all of its Nitrogen. Mars can get their own. :laugh: Still, we would want to remove over half of it from the atmosphere. I guess it could be stored until terraformation was near and end, and then added to the soil in the form of nitrates.
About Venus’ rotation. Plants could probably adapt to Venus’ slow rotation, but wouldn’t the day side boil and the night side freeze. Of course, here in Houston, in August when it is 100 degrees Fahrenheit, people rarely venture out (We go from our climate controlled vehicles to our climate controlled buildings. It is almost like a space colony in and alien environment)
Chat, the tankers for the hydrogen could be built from one of the captured asteroid moons that most gas giants seem to have. The fuel could also be mined from the gas giant’s atmosphere, or one of it’s icy moons. I have thought of several ways to mine hydrogen, none of which we have the technology to do at this moment. These tankers could be huge, but even so, it would take a constant flow of them for many years to supply all the hydrogen. If it could be an automated process, then us humans could set it up and let it go.
Speaking of technology, what we need are self reproducing robots. Imagine sending a small group of robots (Nanobots that work on the molecule level would be perfect) to a world such as a moon or asteroid. Using the resources of the moon or asteroid, this first wave would begin building other robots for various tasks. Eventually you could have millions of various robots doing various task, like building tankers, or building equipment for cracking Carbon Dioxide. Basically, they could build whatever we needed, using the moon or asteroids resources (Mercury might also be a good source of resources). They would do most of the work. The cost to the Earth would be the initial investment of the first wave of robots (Terrabots, I call them).
I don’t see this kind of technology appearing for a long time. Such technology could be used right now to explore space and build space colonies on other worlds.
I do believe we could do a partial terraformation of Mars in a human lifetime. By that, I mean make Mars where water is liquid on the surface, plants can grow, and people can walk on the surface in regular cloths with nothing more than a SCUBA like device for oxygen. In other word, Mars would have a thick Carbon Dioxide atmosphere plants would love, and some kind of UV radiation protection (Like Earth’s ozone layer).
Venus, on the other hand, will probably take many lifetimes to terraform.
When the human race finally gets around to terraforming Venus, I am sure they’ll use techniques we never considered. One thing I have learned, it is hard to predict the future.
And who knows, maybe instead of terraforming other worlds, future generations will use genetic engineering to adapt humans for alien environments.
#555 Re: Terraformation » Terraforming Venus - methods anyone? » 2004-04-07 12:30:30
Hi there. I am an Amateur Science Fiction Writer. I have written 6 books, two of which deals with terraforming Venus and Mars. I am starting another book where I terraform Venus in a new way I had never considered before, or hear anyone else suggest.
Venus has 3 main problems.
1. Too much atmosphere
2. Too much solar radiation
3. Rotates to slow.
As you know, Venus has way too much carbon dioxide, but did you know that Venus has about three times as much Nitrogen as the Earth (It only makes up about 2.5-3% of Venus atmosphere).
First, let’s get rid of most of that Carbon Dioxide. If we could mine the hydrogen from a gas giant, particularly one whose gravity well is not too strong (Jupiter is 2.6 G’s, Saturn and Neptune are 1.1 G’s and Uranus is 0.9 G’s, so lets go with Uranus or Saturn) we could ship it in huge tankers to Venus.
Once in orbit around Venus, we start processing her atmosphere. We split the Carbon Dioxide into Carbon and Oxygen. We combine the Oxygen with the Hydrogen we got from Saturn (or Uranus) to make water and energy. (We’ll save some of the oxygen to give Venus a breathable atmosphere) The leftover Carbon could be used to build tankers or other things, or sent back to Venus. We’ll leave a tiny percentage of the Carbon Dioxide alone to return to the planet’s atmosphere.
Any Nitrogen we remove will be stored in tankers bound for Mars, until over half of the Nitrogen is removed from Venus atmosphere.
The Sulfuric Acid clouds would be converted to Sulfur and water.
Problem 1 is taken care of. Venus now has a breathable atmosphere, suitable for plants and animals, plus vast oceans of water.
Problem 2 and 3 could be solved with the same solution. In my earlier works, I had used mirrors and solar shades to control the amount of solar radiation reaching any spot on Venus.
I found a better way. Build a sphere around Venus (The ends are open like a round, pitted olive) The outside of the sphere lets sunlight in. The whole surface is this way. It is covered with tiny little holes.
The sunlight is channeled through fiber optics to an area on the inside of the sphere (the side facing Venus) and exits where the light then travels to the planet. Only part of the inside of the sphere lets sunlight out towards the surface. All of the fiber optics lead to this area. Any extra solar radiation can be used for energy.
This sphere rotates once every twenty four hours, and thus, so does the exit point of the sunlight, giving Venus a 24 hour day.
The two only problems with this approach is with approach, is ships landing on Venus, and space debris hitting the sphere.
Ships would have to enter through the holes in the sphere poles. These holes would be large enough to allow the Earths Moon to pass through (Not that we would want to do that).
For the other problem, space debris would have to be monitored and removed as needed. Any holes knocked through the sphere by debris would be quickly repaired by robots whose only function was to do just that.
Let me share with you my dream method of terraforming Venus. If I had the power to terraform Venus any way I wished, here is what I would do. Move Venus in a 1 Au orbit from the Sun that doesn’t threaten the Earth. Perhaps place here on the opposite side of the Sun as the Earth. Convert her air like I discussed above. Speed up her rotation to 24 hours, and make Mercury her moon (Put it far enough away so that it’s gravity towards Venus is comparable to the Moon’s gravity on the Earth).