New Mars Forums

Water evaporating at 100 C is under ~1 bar. For Venus Atitarev pointed 2-3 bars for average 15-25 C. Average 80-99 C -- the maximum for water to be in liquid form, i.e. for habitability -- means closer orbit.

How close to the Sun -- Mecurian or lower?

RZ: The Founding Fathers of the United States called our infant republic a "Noble Experiment," a place where the grand liberal ideas of the Enlightenment could be given a run, and the idea of a government based on the rights on man could be tested to see if it could succeed in practice. Their Noble Experiment did succeed, and as a result became the model for a new and better form of human social organization worldwide.

Mars can, should, and will be a place for numerous new Noble Experiments. The well of human social thought has not yet run dry, nor do I believe that we have yet discovered the ultimate and most humanistic form of society possible. In the 22nd Century, as in the 18th, there will always be people who think they have discovered a better way, and need a place to go where the rules haven't been written yet so they can give their ideas a try. For these, the Martian frontier will beckon. Many of their ideas will prove impractical, and their colonies will fail. But some of those who really have a better idea will succeed, and in doing so, light the way forward for all humanity.

So, to answer your question, I say that the colonization of Mars should not be managed at all, but be done through the joyful chaos of human freedom.

Changing the axial rotational rate of the Moon is expensive and nonnecessary and harmfull. That will not cast tidal effects on Earth, but the Moon surface and depths themselves will suffer from tidal effects dozens of times greater than the caused by the Moon on Earth.

The simulations about the climatology of slowly rotating worlds show that the heat is distributed quite evenly by the atmosphere/hydrological cycle even if the planet faces only one side towards the central star. The Moon also has little circunference so the work of the winds to distribute heat will be further eased. No earth-style of storms because lack of Coriolis force and multicelled global meteorologal model.

Mag-field -- mag sail -like ring onto the moon`s equator -- Nordley, Zubrin... or in orbit around it. A whole mag-cage of orthogobnal orbital rings could be made...

AM: If there's life on Mars, how do we balance the Martian right to life with the human impulse to explore and extend our borders?

RZ: The basis of ethics needs to be of benefit to humanity. If there is life on Mars, it is microbial, and its interests can in no way be considered as commensurate with human interests. Those who argue otherwise strike a fashionable pose, but deny their arguments every day through their actions. If bacterial interests trump human interests, then mouthwash should be banned, chlorination of water supplies should be banned, and antibiotics should be banned. If bacterial interests trump human interests, then Albert Schweitzer and Louis Pasteur should be denounced for crimes against bacteria.

Now, in saying that ethics must be based in human benefit, we need not deny that preserving valuable environments in important. It is important to save the amazon rain forest, for example, because a world without an amazon rain forest would be a poorer inheritance for our descendants than one with one, and the degree of the impoverishment exceeds whatever value might be obtained in the short term from slash and burn agriculture. However, in the case of Mars, the calculation votes the other way, as a terraformed Mars, filled with life, cities, universities, used book stores, and yes, rain forests, would be a vastly richer gift to posterity than the current barren Red Planet. Clearly, just as anyone who proposed transforming the current Earth into a place like Mars would be considered mad, so those who, given the choice, would keep Mars dead rather than make it a place as wonderful as the Earth must have their sanity doubted.

There remains only the question of science. Surely we should avail ourselves of the opportunity to study native Martian life before we terraform the place. We surely will. Terraforming Mars will be a long term project, and should native Martian microbes exist, there will be ample opportunity to study it before terraforming takes place. There will also be opportunity to study how it adapts to warmer, wetter conditions and the presence of terrestrial microbes after terraforming takes place. Furthermore, if Mars actually is terraformed, there will be much more people on Mars to study every aspect of Mars, including both its native and immigrant life. So in fact, our knowledge of Martian biota will be increased by terraforming, not decreased.

http://www.universetoday.com/am/publish … 72004]Read me

*Dr. Z is getting around... 

--Cindy

AM: Who should the first human colonists to Mars be and how should they be chosen? Since Martian gravity is one-third of Earth's, wouldn't bone and muscle loss, along with radiation, make colonization a one-way journey? What are the implications of what, from an Earth-perspective, is exile?

RZ: Life is a one-way trip, and we are all permanently exiled from our past. In that sense Mars colonists, and all colonists, are no different from anyone else. It is just more apparent in their case, as in addition to leaving behind the time of their past, they also leave behind the place. But in so doing, they gain the opportunity to create a world where none existed before, and thus gain a form of immortality that is denied to those who are content to accept the world they are born in.

Can we adapt to live Callisto, Titan, Titania, Triton without lenses? Lenses won't help that far. Can we use nuclear power there to keep warm in the habitats. What about terraforming? What a terraformed Triton should look like.

As for me, I am not too interested in really small bodies. Even Pluto is probably too small (diameter 2,274 km). Triton is a bit larger (2700 km)

Triton could be Titan-formed at least. Also Pluto and other smaller bodies.

The reason why Titan is the most hospitable of-earth world in the Solar system for human habitation is that it has dense atmosphere. We all could agree that a SKY is necessary for colonising a world -- no matter this atmosphere is earthlike and brethable or not, the right density/presure/ and non-agressive composition seems enough. Without the presure of any outer dome atmosphere or ocean of any liquid, we`ll need impossible materials to hold the enclousures from bursting -- even on Mars. At least 0.3-0.5 Bars of outer pressure is essential for doming -- off course this exterior presure shouldn`t be higher than the internal -- so several bars are the upper limit, regarding the brethable mixtures available for long duration stay of humans.

The low gravity and the deep cold allow really huge volumes to be terraformed, covered with water ice alloys domes, and the advantages of the original body`s nature to be utilized completely simultaneously. The water-ice ( icecrete ?) walls could be designed in such manner to balance with enough insolation the heat leakage between the 300 K interior and 100 K exterior and to remain solid and robust.

This theme occurs to be tighly connected with the 'terraforming smaller bodies' one -- for the smallest bodies it is obvious that we can not create open sky with earthlike atmosphere without kinda cover -- because of the practical impossibilty the exobase to be kept so cryogenically cool to prevent the air leakage AND the troposphere to have liquid-water temperature the same time.

But I think worlds like Triton or Pluto, or even smaller ones, could be Titan-formed, adding just a little more illumination, so the gasses not to be boiled away.

Triton has its N2-volcanoes. Importing heat in its crust or insolating more its surface would produce close to titan-like atmosphere around this moon. The exact parameters of this new sky should be planned according to the needs and the native conditions and sources. The illumination at Neptune/Pluto distance is still big enough the human eyes to work usefully, i.e. visibility of the landscape. With mirrors it could be rised to Titan`s level of 1% or 15 Watts/sq.m., easier than to the Earth`s one.

The radiational problems of the moons could be solved, even lessened by the new thick atmosphere, by utilising the natural dynamo`s of Neptune energy to power-supply properly arranged arraw of IR- and pseudowhite lasers -- both for keeping the atmosphere in gaseous form without boiling it off (the IR)  and for providing the humans with enough visible illumination (the pseudowhite). + all the industrial vital electricity for oxigen production and warming/lighting of the terraformed volumes. More intense monochromatic (with the most usefull wavelenght) laser beams could be fired from points non moving in respect to the surface ( the lagrange points of Neptune-Triton ) -- with very high accuracy towards Aresibo-like mirror-concentrator 'cups' to produce electricity and to provide enough heat to keep the atmosphere gaseous. Special plant-life volumes (farmlands) can be illuminated uninteraptedly with the proper composition and intensity of light in order optimal conditions for super-efficient biomass production to be established. Using sophisticated and highly elaborated systems of solasers and soletas, not only very distant worlds and habitats could be iluminated with earth-level equivalent quantity of light, but even with the present day tech every sq.m. of the body could be poured with carefully projected different quality and quantity of light -- from complete darkness, through only IR, to monochromatic and natural sun light - filtered or not, amplified or not. As I said for titan-forming the earth equivalent is too high -- the minimum requirement is such amount of termal power that to keep the air in gaseous form. For N2 -- the best external atmospheric gas ( and most available outthere ) we need to keep the average temperatures higher than 77 K at the ground. The termal power for keeping the atmosphere gaseous could come from any source -- concentrated sunlight directed towards the titanformed body, nuclear reactors, radiation belts of a gas giant exploited by megascale MHD-type generators, electrodynanical tethers, or from deorbiting in incremental manner material to Neptune or using Charon`s mass as enormous reservoir of very high electric 'water' dam -- by beanstalks or Lofstrom loops...

Could be discussed even the simplest forms of illumination increase -- the collected light can be pointed towards only one single spot on the body`s surface or spread over single hemisphere. The wind heat transfer will redistribute quite evenly the heat around the moon -- the same way as with Venus, terraformed Mercury, or every slowly or non-rotating body as the simulations show. Thus titan-formed minor bodies would be supplied with out-of-habitats environment roamable with only dry nonpresurized suit + bottle of oxigen ( + pair of wings and radar/flashlights...) and the inhabitants wouldn`t be pressed to live entirelly underground.

Under cold titan-like sky -- which wouldn`t evaporate for billions of years -- a whole planet`s surface paraterraforming by floating planetwide dome with terrestrial temperatures beneath it could be deployed. Another layer on ground could keep the ice from melting. So the temperature gradient in hight will be quite strange -- cold solid depths, ground-blanket, warm earthlike layer several kilometers thick, floating-dome, cold titanlike atmosphere...

It's crazy this stuff has not been done on ISS ages ago... With lower life-forms at least.
How difficult would it be to build a simple as possible mini-centrifuge, w/o all the whizz-bang stuff they always want to incorporate, and wich breaks down ... containing newts, frogs, ants, spiders or other smaller stuff...
Esp. frogs would be interesting, looking how they evolve from egg to 'full-frog' in different G's...