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#26 Re: Civilization and Culture » Crew Composition - Okay, OTHER than you, who should go? » 2002-05-10 10:48:48
There are no shortage of opinions out there regarding the nominal size and composition of the first crew to visit Mars. I'm interested in your opinions...especially if they're well informed and thought out. 
Some important questions here...
-- How many crew?
-- How important is it that they have previous spaceflight experience?
-- What scientific disciplines should be represented?
-- In what proportion should the genders be represented?
-- Should an attempt be made to represent nationalities/races/ethnicities evenly?
-- What about religion, for that matter?
-- Should any portion of the crew should be military?
-- What should the "chain of command" look like? Should there be one at all?
And finally, a related question...who should make all these decisions and choose the final crew? (That's assuming that the powers that be don't ask us to do it. 
)
I'm interested in any thoughts you have...
#27 Re: Human missions » If we start a crash program today.... - Earth to Mars timeframe? » 2002-05-10 05:26:31
On David Portree's "Romance to Reality" site (http://members.aol.com/dsfportree/explore.htm) once had an abstract for a "one way" mission to Mars that was very interesting, but AOL is wreaking havoc with his site right now and I can't find the link.
BTW, I emailed the Mars Now! paper to Adrian.
#28 Re: Human missions » If we start a crash program today.... - Earth to Mars timeframe? » 2002-05-09 11:16:52
^^^ This would certainly qualify as a crash program...
#29 Re: Meta New Mars » New categories » 2002-05-09 03:26:05
Great! Thanks, Adrian!
#30 Re: Human missions » Mars Mission. Step 1 » 2002-05-08 06:05:04
Anyone mind if I try to bring this back on topic?
As I have seen many of us talk about doing it, not many really do anything. So lets try to as neatly and as detailed as possible make a plan for a human mission to Mars.
First, lets think about the outline of the mission:
1. What will the first mission be - just an exploration or a colonization? Should we first send men to explore Mars closely or already to settle down there.
2. The above question brings us to another question: how many men should go? Two? Three? Ten? Two hundred? It depends on the goal. If we need to explore, I would say no more than 30 men. If it is a colonization, than we would need 100 at least.
Lets start out with those two and see what we get at. After that we can do a bit more.
Regarding your first question, Anton, I'd say that the first mission should be a combination of the two. From my perspective, our first mission to Mars should have as one of its primary goals the survey of some small portion of the planet to determine its suitability for a (more or less) continuously manned research station. Some portion of the equipment landed for that first mission should be designed to form the hub of such a station (I believe both Mars Direct and the NASA Reference Mission have this consideration built in to them). Later missions would add to this hub until it was sufficient to house a small (perhaps no more than 50?) research staff with the goal of determining whether life exists on Mars. Due to important ethical considerations, I think it's imperitive that we determine whether life exists on Mars before we begin (or allow) any effort that could lead toward permanent colonization of the planet.
By the time scientists have gathered enough data to make that determination, I think there would probably be several governments, private organizations, and consortia of the two who were ready to proceed with colonization should conditions warrant.
#31 Re: Meta New Mars » New categories » 2002-05-08 05:26:25
As I mentioned in the other thread, my interests here range from crew dynamics during preliminary exploratory missions to the emergence of a distinctly "Martian" culture upon colonization. Basically any anthropological, social, or cultural concerns would find a home in the forum I suggested.
#32 Re: Human missions » If we start a crash program today.... - Earth to Mars timeframe? » 2002-05-08 03:07:45
...Are there other developed and viable mission architectures besides the above 3, plus Mars Now?
It's very generous of you to include my meager offering among those mentioned above...especially considering you haven't seen the proposal.
After thinking about it, I don't have any problem posting the paper on line (Adrian, should I email it to you?) but I have to warn you of a couple of things up front:
1. The paper covers a lot of ground in 12 pages...in other words, what it lacks in depth it makes up for in width. This paper was intended to be the "first chapter," if you will, of the master's thesis I never finished.
2. It's somewhat dated at this point. It was written in 1997 based upon the political and economic climate of the day, and expecting NASA to move forward with a few key technologies (primarily X-33). It really needs updating to be revelant, but I don't have time to do that today...so it comes "as is."
3. It's not the most Zubrin-friendly piece of technical literature out there. :0 Please don't misunderstand this; I have the utmost respect for Dr. Zubrin both as a scientist and as an activist. In fact, there is no one in the field of Mars exploration whom I respect more. But the point of my project was to develop an architecture that would enable us to go to Mars as soon as possible...so I deviated from "Mars Direct" for reasons I make clear in the paper.
4. Finally...I was heavily under the influence of Stephen Baxter's book Voyage when I wrote this paper...so be warned.
By the way, Adrian...I also have the Powerpoint presentation I put together to pitch the idea to my faculty advisors. If you'd like that as well, let me know.
#33 Re: Terraformation » When should we terraform » 2002-05-07 10:08:27
I didn't vote...too many assumptions. Survey findings regarding life on Mars are at the center of the question for me. If life exists there now -- on any level -- then from my perspective we have no right to terraform. If there's no life, then I agree with the poster above who stated that mankind has always "terraformed" his surroundings to make them more comfortable. (Wouldn't "anthropoforming" be a more suitable term?) Technologically speaking, it's only a matter of time before we're doing it on a planetary scale.
#34 Re: Human missions » If we start a crash program today.... - Earth to Mars timeframe? » 2002-05-07 05:49:30
For my graduate work at Embry-Riddle, I wrote a paper called "Mars Now -- A Practical Architecture for Manned Mars Exploration in the Very Near Term." Here's the abstract:
This paper outlines an architecture for a manned expedition to Mars in the near term (2006-2009). [Note: the paper was written in 1997.] After briefly reviewing and critiquing current thought on how such a mission might be carried out, the paper defines the problem in terms of mission objectives and obstacles. From this definition a solution strategy develops which makes maximum use of mature technologies and off-the-shelf components in order to minimize technical risks and research and development costs. Designs of a Mars Orbital Transfer Vehicle and Mars surface infrastructure are discussed, as well as flight trajectories, crew composition, and proposed scientific activities. The paper concludes that the Mars Now architecture is capable of achieving manned Mars exploration in the near term, with minimal technical risk and at a fraction of the cost of other proposed architectures.
In the spirit of this thread, if anyone would be interested in reading the text of the paper, let me know.
#35 Re: Human missions » Space Command - Space Command » 2002-05-07 05:38:21
...military forces aren't always THAT smart, not to mention governmental beurocracies...
Hmm...as a former U.S. military officer educated at one of our nation's service academies, I'd agree with your statement in general and offer the U.S. military as an exception to your aptly-stated rule. In fact, there is no major military force in the world that is more well-educated that that of the U.S. I'd point out that without military involvement, the U.S. would have no space program to speak of today. Military astronauts make up a major portion of the U.S. astronaut corps, and not all of them are pilots. I'm sure NASA has some interesting statistics on the web for anyone who's interested enough to do the research.
Regarding the "Space Command" directive that spawned this thread, I'd love to see a link to the referenced discussion at Space.com.
And regarding the Face, Pyramids, and City...well, I'm witholding my opinions until I've had a chance to go and check it out for myself.
Oh, and I prefer calling the future amusment park "Barsoom" as opposed to "Lowell-Land..." 
#36 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Launch Vehicles - Energia, Ares, Magnum etc. » 2002-05-07 01:47:39
^^^ Just like on the Moon, huh?
#37 Re: Meta New Mars » Your comments are wanted! » 2002-05-04 05:52:00
Hello, Everyone!
First, let me introduce myself: My name's Peter. I've been a "lurker" here for a while, and finally decided to jump in. I've followed the work of the Mars Society from a distance for quite a while, and I have a passion for Mars exploration and, eventually, colonization.
I did my undergraduate work in Engineering Physics and began my career in the (U.S.) military working in air and missile defense. As an undergrad I did an internship at Los Alamos National Labs, writing code for the gamma ray spectrometer that was aboard Mars Observer. 
I've also got a little grad work under my belt through Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, where I was at one time pursuing a degree in Aircraft/Spacecraft Safety Systems. I had an application in at the Astronaut Office at NASA when God intervened and pointed my life in another direction. Today I work as a Christian minister serving an international congregation in Portugal. I hope I can add yet another different perspective to some of the great discussions here.
So anyway...a comment. Would there be any interest in a "civ-culture" forum here, similar to the Mars Society civ-culture mailing list? In particular, I'm interested in all kinds of sociological and anthropological issues, from crew dynamics to leadership to societal development of Martian colonies. Anyone else have any thoughts or interests in these areas?
One other question: I've had trouble accessing the "profile" area of the control panel. Is it just me, or is it disabled?
#38 Re: Human missions » Future of Space Shuttles - How could the Space Shuttles be used? » 2002-05-04 02:39:46
...Because the Agency is a federal jobs program, it has no incentive to streamline operations.
Actually, with the hounds of Congressional #### trying to tear their budget apart, I'd say NASA has more than enough incentive to streamline operations. Perhaps this was President Bush's reasoning when he chose an OMB hatchetman for the job of NASA Administrator. ???
It has been suggested that shuttle operating costs would be decreased by a factor of ten if it was operated by a private company.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't NASA hand over day-to-day operation of the Space Shuttle program (particularly maintaining the vehicles and turning them around from recovery to launch-ready) to a private consortium a few years ago?
I believe that a next-genaeration shuttle, designed for quick turnarounds, automatic health monitoring, and full reusability, would cut costs by another factor of ten. Only then will space tourism become a reality, and not a dream, for the masses.
This is the plan for the SLI vehicle mentioned above...but I don't think that "space tourists" are the intended market for it...
#39 Re: Human missions » If we start a crash program today.... - Earth to Mars timeframe? » 2002-05-03 12:23:11
...I'm afraid if I ever go to Mars I'll be 40 years old by then.
Of course, the average age of all active astronauts and cosmonauts with at least one orbital mission under their belts is probably something close to this...so don't feel too bad! 