New Mars Forums

Why do I have the inescapable feeling that they are going to regret this before its all said and done?

Well, for one, the lack of gravity would make a "control" impossible. It would be difficult to pin down just the effect of the radiation. Their ability to recover from background and radiation events could not be accurately studied because of unknown health effects of gravity. Even our meager exercises and drugs would not do anything for rats, and I doubt they'd know what to do with themselves. Also, there’s the matter of a severe radiation event that would kill everything early on. Since we can't exactly sterilize rats, a mass kill off risks killing the rats but not the proven tougher bacteria. Decay could leave us bones, not useless, but not quite worth the investment either.

In theory there are probably ways to get around that. Such a small critter may be able to survive in a 5m diameter capsule spun to one g, they are short after all. The adverse effects may not be an issue on that scale. A configuration other than a capsule would make it even more difficult to maintain the ecosystem, at least with EELVs. Anything larger and your out of your stated price range. In either case you are going to have trouble your little mickynauts in the capsule once its on the pad. A modified CEV type capsule and launcher might do the trick, but its not going to get you to near Mars space or back. Or at least not without going out of the stated price range.

Other issues with LSS would need to be solved.
•    A shielded section to protect them from solar storms, and a way to get them in it.
•    A way to clean up after them, as they won't do it themselves.
•    A way to keep the population stable.

An intriguing idea subject to physics. Someone smarter than me would have to figure out if that’s possible. None the less, studying the affects of interplanetary travel on non-human creatures is a required part of any Mars exploration program. Since manned Mars is still a few decades away, this would be a great way cross some more things off the checklist.

Concerning Titan vs Venus as a nitrogen source...

While it might require less energy to go from Venus to Mars, we can't readily access the surface, making construction of any large atmospheric structure a difficult floating import operation.

Titan doesn't have this problem. There’s everything needed to support on site construction and the population to run it. Any extra juice needed to escape the Saturian gravity well is readily available from several other moons that are more than half water ice, were we’ll probably set up shop as well anyway.

We need to look larger than any single destination. The very same 35m x 10m rigid hab launched on a CaLV will function just as well in LEO, the Lunar surface, interplanetary space, Callisto, Pluto, or even Mars if equipped with a heat shield. Only when we get the large internal volumes needed for long term quasi-seft sufficancy can we think about the long voyages and planetary stays. Having as many common components as possible will make that possible.

And it can start right on the moon. As soon the current crop of systems come online in 2018, we start on the rigid hull and its EDS. At first maybe just a 3rd or 4th of it will be actual living space, the rest a rover garage, lab, oxygen collectors, perhaps some brick makers, or equipment for working with other minerals, and of course water collecters. They'll be intended as the first wave of outposts to support 6 months of continous occupasion for 4 to 6 people. Later the very same basic hull can be used as all pressurized space for living quarters, lab space, workshops, greenhouses, or all unpressurized for mining equipment. Ulltimately a whole bunch of them will be bundled together to serve as interplanetary craft, or full fledged surface bases.

With the core module developed, we can deploy them cheaply on the moon, and move on to other things like advanced propulsion, simulated gravity, and active radiation sheilding systems.

You know, at first I think Cheney kept it quiet because he was honestly embaressed by violating one of the cardinal rules of upland bird hunting.

But now I think he's just milking it to let the world see the White House Press Corp lose their last shred of impartiality and sanity by throwing a temper tantrum on national TV.

He may be right.

Physicist to Present New Exact Solution of Einstein's Gravitational Field Equation

I think the trouble is no one seems willing to make the commitment in life support technologies needed for the jump to the multiyear transits. All the buzz surrounds get to Mars with the least amount of effort as possible, which I fear will have disasterous results. We are fighting tooth and nail to get out of LEO for what most is hoping to be a short detour to the moon, followed by more downtime for a very limited mission to Mars. Anything beyond that would require more downtime to invent entirely new architecture for anything beyond.

I favor a long term build up on the moon to develop all the long term quasi self sufficent LSS needed for the decade long voyages long before we go to Mars. There should only be one jump, from near Earth Space to interplanetary space, and it should be done on the Moon. And while we are there we can do all the surface activities that we will do anywhere else.

Highlights Of The NASA FY 2007 Budget Request

A good breakdown of whats in.

Frankly I'm shocked at the cost of continuing to operate robotic probes. After launch the only thing needed to operate them is a small team and a bunch of computer consoles. Why does that cost tens of millions of dollars?

I also find it interesting that the CEV/CLV budget is getting damn near close to the Shuttle budget. No doubt an insurance policy. But we'll have no need for for the CEV without a complete station, and we won't have a complete station without the shuttle (theoretically) without the CaLV. If the ISS is to be an international effort, let the Russians handle the manned launches. We are the only ones with the resources, shuttle or otherwise, to get the rest of it off the ground. The CEV will do  nothing for ISS construction.

The military always gets stuff first. As far as I'm conserned I'd be glad to let the Air Force pay for it. NASA can buy it off the shelf later.

RTG's?
Why would we be limited to solar?

*hippys explode*

They might be able to to keep warm in the cabin, but EVAs would be considerably more difficult. The power supply they'd need to carry would negate just about any advantage of putting boots on the ground. Which is not to say there are not other ways to get the needed level of dexiterity. Mounting a suit to a rover with an arm that can manipulate the suit to any angle while maintaining connections is one.

When it comes to Outer planet exploration, the HOPE mission really has the right overall idea, set up camp on a safe moon, and expand from there. Luna hardware is fine for most of the gas giant satillites. Volitiles are abundant. Odd cases like Titan, Europa, and Io that might require more modified hardware and surface equipment can come later.

We have. Iran has not. Thus the problem.