New Mars Forums

Communism is, in its purest form, utopia.  But humans aren't perfect, and communism requires selfless, unpossesive humans.  We are selfless, possesive people.

In communism, how do you get specialized workers?  Why should a doctor, or a lawyer, or a scientist, go to school for 4 years, so that they can have the same house, same clothes, and same pay as a plumber or a dockworker?  THERE IS NO INCENTIVE TO IMPROVE YOUR PERSONAL STANDING!

Yeah... uh.. I kind of know a guy, who knows a guy, who's mom and dad went to China... uh... for their 40th anniversary.. yeah.  They went on a cruise down the coast... they said it was nice... the chinese people were very hospitable.

Have you taken time to study your current events and world politics lately instead of looking at your neighbor's slide show from vacation.

Oh, and would you be happier knowing that your hard studies resulted in your wealth (ie capitalism) or that you were "forced" into labor (ie china).  I rest my case.

Anyway, how did our conversation drift so far off topic?  We were talking about China's threat to the US before this, so I think we should get back to US foreign policy, if it so pleases the court.

Whoops!  I swear I knew you were a guy... I apolgize for

I must not have been thinking... I'm really sorry...

Ummm....Hmmmm....yeah, sorry again man.  Let's get this debate fired up again.

WHAT?  Are you trying to compare the greatest capitalist system to thrive on this planet (the US), to the Socialist hell-hole we call China?  Totalitarian governments can direct currency more efficiently, but capitalist governments have incentives to be bigger and better. 

I would like you to note that Hong Kong, a former Brittish possession, is the only "city and tech" center in the whole country.  New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Washington, Boston, Denver... the list goes on... have become truly great "city and tech" centers through the American capitalist system.

Thank you, Shawn.  I have tried to think of a long way to summarize socialism for a long time now.  That equation hit the nail on the head.

Yes, the US has been widely known to have supported Hussein during the 1980's to fight Iran.

Who could have known what would have happened?  At the time, Iran looked like the greater of two evils.  After all, they had the Ietolla (sp?) in power, they were a possible nuclear power, and let's not forget those American embassy hostages they took...

Who will ever really know what Saddam was prepared to do.  If he was thirsty enough for oil (yes, yes, he based his invasion partly on the fact that Kuwait was overproducing oil beyond the OPEC limits at the time.  However, a quick hit-and-run on the Kuwaiti oil fields would have accomplished that goal.  I think (no, I know) the Iraqis were onto something bigger) who knows what he would have done to access the Saudi oil fields?  And on your point, what do the Russians know?  This all happened just a few months before the collapse of the Soviet Union (May 1991?), or maybe a few months before... anyway, the point is Russia was in the middle of HUGE political and economic change.  I'm sure the Russian Intelligence officials were not at their peak performance at the time. :0

What's their best source of money?  I would imagine that a nation with their per capita income sitting at the western world's ankle level would do a lot of things for cash.

See, I was pretty sure that the US didn't support the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait.

Sure, the people could be terrorists, but then they let persecute the people who kill (ie Daniel Pearle).

IRAN is, I hope, our next move to erradicate terrorist strongholds.  They have been proved to have hosted al Qaida camps in the past, and probably now.

IRAQ is the topic of this discussion.  Your point is not valid.

PAKISTAN is a good friend in the middle east right now.  Musharif likes us.

CHINA doesn't have a madman leader that would sell nuclear weapons to terrorists (oh, and Chinese secret operatives.  Sounds like a bad dream about a James Bond movie based in Chinatown.)

NORTH KOREA is another nation I have advocated striking to destroy its nuclear capability.  Right now, however, it is in close proximity to China, and we think it already has a weapon.  That would pose a threat to our trading partners in South Korea and Japan, and our troops in the DMZ.

I hear hell is really nice in about December!  Be sure to bring some sunscreen and a broad-brimmed hat.  The sun burns down there are TERRIBLE!

Exactly clark!  We need to invade now to save our American lives from terrorism at home, and use covert-ops to minimize civilian harm abroad.

What do you think I'm being distracted about?  This whole issue has wondered so off topic in the first place that I spend all of my time debunking your theories of why in God's name these "terrible, awful, horrible leaders" in Washington are doing this.  I don't know what you want me to talk about!  Let's lay down some parameters for the next part of the discussion, if it makes you happy.

I was just trying to point out the flaws soph's arguement.  Sorry if I offended you

You want to be on two sides of the fence.  You say that we shouldn't interfere in Saudi Arabia (or Iraq, or North Korea, or Tibet, etc.) but at the same time, you acknowledge that they are helping to fund terror!  So let the US take care of the foreign threat!

That problem has kept me awake for many nights...

God has the same problem too.  Just who created the creator?  Has he just always been?

Yes, I understand that the foreign media does a better job, but I don't speak French.  So how do I get access to the foreign media's stories?

I like the BBC for a bit of my world news.

I am a christian, but I think Genesis was exaggerated.  I mean, how did 1 man get all of the animals in existence onto a relatively small boat, and keep everyone fed for 40 days?  Maybe I'm interpreting this too literally...

And God creating the world in 7 days.  Why would God take 7 days to create the world when he could have done it at the same time.  I think a lot of the creation stories in the Bible are speculation, or blurred truth at least.

I mean, if a child asks you how the universe came to be, do you go to the trouble of explaining the big bang, energy-to-matter theory, inflation, branes, planetary formation, etc., or do you tell them that God did the whole job, and that's all you need to know?