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There are problems with searching for transmissions in the optical bands since light wave lengths shift with respect to acceleration when veiwed from a distance. band.
All types of EM radiation are affected by traveling vast distances across space as they encounter magnetic and gravitational fields and propagate through the interstellar medium. Frequency shifting, dispersion and absorption affect both optical and microwave (where traditional SETI work is done). Optical frequencies have the advantage of far less dispersion and greater transmission efficiency compared with microwave.
Still the pointless analysis goes on, without direct input from NASA everything is speculation. Griffin has sold congress a robust lunar exploration program with 4 crew anywhere for a least a week and the setting up of an outpost later on. This requirement still stands and he will be doing whatever it takes to make it happen, and to do it all within the budget.
VSE: Less steroids or less Apollo
4/10/2006 4:54:00 AM
By: Chris Bergin / Daniel Handlin
Once characterized as "Apollo on steroids" by NASA administrator Mike Griffin, the architecture surrounding the ESAS (Exploration Systems Architecture Study) has grown too heavy for its launch vehicles.According to NASA internal review documents obtained by NASASpaceFlight.com, the architecture may be sheared of much of its "steroid" capability, or be replaced by a radically different kind of lunar exploration technique - based around rendezvous thousands of kilometers above the farside of the Moon.
The weight problems with the ESAS have led to a recent NASA trade study that indicates that any simple variant of the original ESAS vehicles are now too heavy to be flown to the Moon. The results of the study conclude that drastic changes are necessary to ESAS assumptions, in order to make the planned flights to the Moon feasible.
Note that this is speculation based on leaked undated internal working documents (assuming these are true NASA docs). There is no such conclusion in the presented docs, furthermore it is unclear in what context this work is being performed. It is standard practice to work through complex problems in this way, creating scenarios and extreme cases in order to expose weaknesses and reduce risk.
(It's hard to see that this is in anyway helpful to NASA's work to have their files publicly distributed, although it clearly helps journalists make money and bash NASA)
Announced today, the Lunar CRater Observation and Sensing Satellite (LCROSS) will be a secondary payload on the same launch vehicle as the LRO mission. Details here
For those of you interested in real information rather than deliberate misinformation from unscrupulous people making a ton of money out of lies and fantasies, try this recent interview with Horowitz on the current progress in OSETI research at Harvard.
Finally, the expected lunar lander followon mission to LRO is starting to make news
The mission concept should generally follow the MSFC proposed concept, where a CLV test flight is used to launch the lander, and a throttleable RL-10 engine is used for the descent and landing to best emulate the human landing approach. To the degree possible, the landing should be a verification test of the human lander descent and landing guidance and flight control algorithms, the precision landing and hazard avoidance capability, including navigation and instruments.
RLEP2 homepage - launch no earlier than 2011
As for our Euro pals in space, I am cautiously optimistic. They've got good technology, done good robotic missions and have a powerful economy but they lack manned missions and the European space exploration lacks political backing...every couple of years somebody like Blair or Chirac may or may not casually mention space in some vague manner but I would imagine that European nations would happily back the idea of a robotic Mars Sample Return.
There is an interesting possibility that Europe may seize on space as a way to unite itself. A large space project may be the answer, it's highly visible, pushes technology and industry ahead and movtivates citizens to work towards a common goal. Europe has the both the money and the technology base to start a big new program, given the political will it could easily outspend NASA. And this would be far more politically acceptable than military spending or yet another bridge or fast railway.
People keep on saying that America is "entering decline" yaddah yaddah for decades, and then you know what? It still hasn't happend. We still have the strongest economy in the world, while Europe falters daily
<snip>
The demographics have killed Europe, they just don't know it (or won't admit it) yet; to sustain a population, that is just to keep it steady and not decline, you need every woman to have an average of 2.1 children. Germany and France are below 1.5, while the immigrants are well above 3.0. In fifty years, ethnic Germans, French, and Britons will all be minorities in addition to being an endangered species.
Congratulations on writing such a long post without any mention whatsoever of Mars or space
Whereas I do agree with your main point that the US is far from decline, your repetition of the argument about Europe's decline does not stand up well to the numbers. Europe's economy is very new and highly fragmented, its currency is barely 5 years old, yet it already has a GDP close to the US ... about $12 Trillion. The slow process of market integration is happening even as new states are joining, there is no doubt that the EU will outstrip the US economically eventually, and if it gets its act together that may be well within 10 years. The current population is 454 million and will grow much more with the admission of Turkey and eastern European states. It's hard to see where the expansion will end, North African states are now being considered as well new states such as Ukraine. Even Russia may join bringing the total population close to 1 billion. BTW most of Europe's population are Caucasian unlike the US with its rapidly growing Hispanic and Asian populations as well as a large black group. If you compare Caucasian US birth rates you'll see that they are not much higher than European levels, and according to the latest statistics already at or below replacement rate.
I won't comment on Europe's political unity as there's almost nothing to say about it. :>
Details of a new study from UC Davies
Cracks and fins in the sand in an American desert look very similar to features seen on Mars and may indicate the recent presence of water at the surface
Will there be another MTO soon ?
No.
Mentioned elsewhere in the forum and included here for reference
According to reliable sources NASA's initial internal estimate of what it would cost to modify the current SRB used for Shuttle missions to serve as the first stage of the new Crew Launch Vehicle had been around $1 billion. That estimate has been revised up to around $3 billion.
CLV Cost Escalation
http://www.nasawatch.com/archives/2006/ … scala.html
Editor's note: According to reliable sources NASA's initial internal estimate of what it would cost to modify the current SRB used for Shuttle missions to serve as the first stage of the new Crew Launch Vehicle had been around $1 billion. That estimate has been revised up to around $3 billion.
If this is true, it is very bad news for ESAS. The 5 segment SRB first stage was considered the least risky part of CLV development. So if the estimates for this component were out by a factor of 300% the upper stage and CEV costs must all be in doubt now. Not to mention the far more risky HLV development
... AW&ST recently posted a story about the mission that says it may carry a lander!
He he I always wanted to quote myself . Yes more news that LRO will have a lander. An annoucement is expected April 10 at a news conference on the Lunar Research Mission (on NASA TV at 06:00 UT)
SpaceDaily.com are now reporting that the secondary payload will be an impactor to expose ice deposits.
Components awaiting assembly at Lockheed Martin Space Systems
New Space.com article on the status of Phoenix
This is going to be the first mission to get down and dirty on the surface of the Mars. With all due respect to the Spirit and Opportunity Mars rovers…we’re going to get muddy.
J-2X DESIGN, DEVELOPMENT, TEST & EVALUATION
Solicitation released by NASA/MSFC Mar 31, 2006
NASA/MSFC has a requirement for the design, development, test, and evaluation (DDT&E) of an engine to support the Crew Launch Vehicle (CLV) Upper Stage and the Cargo Launch Vehicle (CaLV) Earth Departure Stage (EDS). The engine, a J-2 (Saturn Heritage engine) derivative, will be a 250,000 pound thrust class human-rated engine and is planned to support a human launch of the CLV in 2012. The baseline DDT&E effort will require the delivery of seven development and qualification engines with two spares, two development test flight engines, and one human flight engine.
Telemetry showed the failure, which occurred at 6:55 a.m. Moscow Time, was caused by "a sudden external impact on the spacecraft," RSCC said in a statement. The cause most probably was space garbage of unknown origin. The result was instantaneous depressurization of the satellite's thermal control system fluid circuit, followed by "a sudden outburst of the heat-carrying agent."
If this is true then how would they separate the effects of the depressurization of the fluid (that would also change the spin) and the outburst (which would change the trajectory and cause more spin)? They would have to be monitoring the satellite's orbit extremely closely to determine that it was an external impact.
The Russian Express-AM11 Telecomunication satellite on Wednesday the 24th at 6.55am Moscow time was impacted externally and the Satellite failed. It has lost its Geostationery orbit and proper rotation.
Spacedaily Russian Telecom Satelite Fails After Sudden Impact
Is this the first recorded satellite failure due to space Junk. Certainly the Shuttle and ISS have recieved impacts.
How do they know there was an external impact?
New article in March 2006 issue of AiAA Aerospace America about MRO, Phoenix and MSL; a good well written overview.
New article in March 2006 issue of AiAA Aerospace America about MRO, Phoenix and MSL
“This project has been going on since 2000 in one form or another,” says JPL’s Richard Cook, project manager for MSL. “Right now we’re running about 200 people."
It's real!
Finally Bush gets it and speaks out:
"And quite frankly I want to see Americans and our international friends in orbit sooner rather than later. And more importantly I want to see them in an all America rig and not some spam can from Russia that any tourist with a spare $20 million dollars can hitch a ride in.
Everyone seems too busy arguing about politics to notice that MRO, the most powerful Mars orbiter ever built, has started aerobraking to reach its science orbit.
In-flight checks of the New Horizons science payload are going well, as six of the seven instruments on board have completed tests proving they survived launch and demonstrated their basic functionality.
Lockheed Martin has been awarded a preliminary design and concept study start-up contract by NASA for the MSL aeroshell system.
The MSL heatshield will be the largest ever built at about 4.5 meters (15 feet) in diameter. For comparison, the heatshields of the Mars Exploration Rovers measured 2.6 meters (8.5 feet) and Apollo capsule heatshields measured 3.9 meters (12.8 feet).
Emily Lakdawalla posted a report about a paper at LPSC 2006, looking at transfer of organisms to Europa, models show hundreds of rocks reaching the Jovian moons for every large impact on Earth! So it seems reasonable to assume that thousands must be reaching Mars. Encased inside rocks they could be transported deep underneath the martian surface on impact.