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===
Today on Mars: 0038/12/21 Saturday Days of the week OFFSET 4 with Earth. (count from Mars to Earth )
Sol 328 Business Month 12 Sixth month of Quarter 2 of Year 38
Today on Earth: 2025/10/15 Wednesday Earth Date) Post Title: Today on Mars
====*====*==
To see how this calendar works, we show the standard 28 day month at the bottom of this daily report.
There are 20 months of 28 Sols and 4 months of 27 Sols at the end of the four six-month quarters.
New Years Eve is extended to align the Business Calendar for Mars with the Astronomical calendar.
Business and Astronomical both start at zero (to the nanosecond) on New Year's Day.
This calendar has been in operation for two full Mars years (36 and 37). We are in Year 38
Per http://www-mars.lmd.jussieu.fr/mars/tim … _time.html also see: in-the-sky.org for opposition/perigee/aphelion
Martian Year: 38 Martian Astronomical Month in 12 month format: 5 <<== The Astronomical month will increment when longitude reaches 150 degrees
===
Solar Longitude: 155.2 Sol Number: 328 Change in degrees is +.5 Julian date is: J0038328
Solar Longitude: 154.7 Sol Number: 327 Change in degrees is +.5 Julian date is: J0038327
Solar Longitude: 154.2 Sol Number: 326 Change in degrees is +.6 Julian date is: J0038326
#>
Note that Solar Longitude measurement varies as a function of location in orbit. Ls 0 is the moment when the Sun appears to transit from one hemisphere to the other. Update from Mars.NASA.gov (The Sun crosses the equator of Mars (Vernal Equinox)). The transition itself is a function of the tilt of an object with respect to the Solar plane. Per squarewidget.com, Hipparchus created the celestial coordinate system we use today.
Note#2: https://theskylive.com/mars-tracker This web site shows the astronomical position of Mars as seen from Earth
Todo: At next Aphelion/Perihelion record the Mars date as J00##### (and set Search term)
Perihelion occurred in 2024 at Ls 251 on Sol 485 - Earth Date 2024/05/08 Next: (estimated) 2026/03/06
Perihelion occurred in 2022 at Ls 251 on Sol 485 - Earth Date 2022/06/21 Next: (actual) 2024/05/08
Aphelion Earth Dates: Next: 2027/03/04 Earlier: 2025/04/16, 2023/05/30, 2021/07/12, 2019/08/25, 2017/10/07, 2015/11/20
Aphelion occurred at--- Ls 071 on Sol 152.
Aphelion occurred near Ls 070 on Sol 153 (per http://www.planetary.org)
Note#3: The computations below are dependent upon both the computations provided by the reference web site and by accuracy of recording of the time of observations. The calculations use tenths of hours. The Sun Distance needs to be captured at the moment the time increments to a given tenth.
Note on data below: The figure quoted after distance is a rate of progress along the orbital path [exact meaning to be determined]
Minus prefix means Mars is approaching the Sun. Plus prefix means Mars is moving away from the Sun.
The figure computed to the right of "Difference" is the rate of change of the distance to Sun. Increasing to Aphelion/Decreasing to Perihelion.
Aphelion of Mars is due March 04, 2027 Sol 151-152 Note velocity of Mars was 22.0 km/s nearing Aphelion (21.97 km/s)
===
Distance: Mars >> Sun per theskylive.com: 227,999,177 km [24.1 km/s] Difference is -194752 <= -8115 km/hour at 12 on 10/15 (time 12:00) (24 hours)
Distance: Mars >> Sun per theskylive.com: 228,193,929 km [24.1 km/s] Difference is -194586 <= -8108 km/hour at 12 on 10/14 (time 12:00) (24 hours)
Distance: Mars >> Sun per theskylive.com: 228,388,515 km [24.1 km/s] Difference is -194375 <= -8099 km/hour at 12 on 10/13 (time 12:00) (24 hours)
==*==*==*
Observation: The sky view is ** filled ** with objects and some have been recorded and given identification by humans or their robot assistants
And! ** All ** the location assignments are from the perspective of Earth. The entire catalog needs to be adjusted when inter-stellar travel begins
The work that lies ahead for the astronomical community is daunting - there is work ahead for centuries
2022/01/19 - All current (existing) stellar catalogs are computed with reference to the Earth. Another civilization would use it's planet as reference.
Perhaps a Milky Way frame of reference will become necessary at some point. The Earth is as good a Zero point as any, for humans.
=== Mars is in Regular movement as seen from Earth.
Next ahead: TYC 6159-1504-1 RA 14h 53m – Day 0 - - ahead and just below path
PGC 160193 below RA 14h 51m Day 0 - 0 ahead Day 1 – 1 8 hours past
====*====*>>>
Zoom Out Capability As a general observation ... I've become increasingly interested in knowing what the larger view of the sky might be like.
The site: theskylive.com does a terrific job of matching the view from Earth towards Mars, against a background of actual astronomical plates.
I wish there were a way (or rather, I wish I ** knew ** about a way that may exist) to enlarge the view until the entire galaxy is in view (Zoom out)
Update 2022/12/08 TheSkyLive.com provides a large view of selected objects: Select [Major Bodies] Then select [Information] in the body of interest
Update 2022/12/08 Scroll down to (body) Position and Finder Charts. Field of view is 50x30 degrees.
Light travel in one second is (about) 300,000 kilometers. The distance covered in one minute is about 18,000,000 kilometers. Estimated light times:
1:18,2:36,3:54,4:72,5:90,6:108,7:126,8:144,9:162,10:180,11:198,12:216,13:234,14:252,15:270,16:288,17:306,18:324, 19:342,20:360,21:378,22:396
Light travel time today is between 19 and 20 minutes. Communications delay would be 38+ minutes round trip.
===
Earth Distance in km: 2025/10/15 356,973,000 (increasing)
Earth Distance in km: 2025/10/14 356,709,000 (increasing)
Earth Distance in km: 2025/10/13 356,439,000 (increasing)
<<#
Maximum Earth-Mars distance is estimated to be 401 million kilometers (both at apogee and opposite vs Sun) Minimum is about 56 million kilometers
Mars and Earth were in Opposition (Earth center) in December of 2022. The date coincided with a (very rare) occultation of Mars by the Moon.
Mars and Earth were in Conjunction (Sun center) in November of 2023.
Mars and Earth appear to have been as close as they will get in Year 36. 81,454,323 kilometers on J0036644 Time: 4.53 minutes - 9 minutes round trip
In his online interview with Dr. Zubrin at the 2020 Mars Conference, Elon Musk reminded the audience that communications with Mars will necessarily include an intermediary station to handle traffic when the Sun is between Mars and Earth. Communications delays in that circumstance will increase due to the extra distance to be covered. Mr. Musk indicated he expects such communication will be handled by laser. Location would be optimum at poles of solar plane.
This web site offers an online model of the solar system: www.solarsystemscope.com It requires Chrome 57, Firefox 52 or Safari 10.1. Viewed 2022/10/13: Opposition will occur some time in December of 2022. Per earthsky.org, the date is December 8, 2022.
This web site offers an online orrery view of the Solar System: https://www.theplanetstoday.com/
===
Sol 328 is in Month 12 of a Proposed 24 month calendar. See Post 19 of Holidays topic for a summary.
Month 12 extends from Sol 308 through 334. <<== There are 27 days in Month 12. See post 82 of Holidays topic for current details.
Direct path to source: http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 57#p154257
Sol 328 is Saturday in the Proposed Business calendar for Mars. Sol 304 was a Skip Day on Mars. Next is near 341 of Year 38
##
The Next New Year's on Mars will occur when Solar Longitude reaches 360 degrees. Year 38 started November 12, 2024 on Earth
Per www.planetary.org Year 36 started 2021/02/07 on Earth. Mars Year 37 began 2022/12/27 on Earth.
Days of the Week Alignment:
Days of the week fall behind Earth due to the longer Sol, but they also change when Friday is omitted at the end of a Quarter
337 Earth days were observed to elapse in the 2020 weekday cycle. There were 7 week day transitions and 2 Quarter ends.
The next cycle began on the first Sol of the period of coincidence. The alignment of weekdays interval is in the range: (310 - 337)
To find the first day of a period of coincidence: Set up: SearchTerm(colon) and (colon)Alignment and J0036* or J0037*
The most recent End-Of-Quarter change occurred: … The search specified above gave 11 pages of results.
For current weather on Mars see:
***https://mars.nasa.gov/insight/weather/***
***Insight's weather info has been suspended and now is directing to msl*** <<-- Insight's mission is over (2022)
https://mars.nasa.gov/msl/weather/
Per SpaceNut: Here is another web page by NASA containing the latest news releases
https://mars.nasa.gov/news/?page=0&per_ … ope=Latest
All forum members are invited to post significant events for this day.
Events of interest will be ON Mars, or relate to Mars. Examples are launches, landings, discoveries
Standard Month in Mars Business Calendar Copyright ® 2023 NewMars.com Mars Society
Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
Recruiting text may be found at the bottom of this post: http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 57#p154257
Copyright the Mars Society All Rights Reserved
Month 12 of 24: This is the last month of the Second Quarter. (27 Sols)
The 2025 Mars Society Convention has come and gone!
It appears there is a treasure trove of video for us to enjoy.
This topic is available if anyone has comments about any video in this collection.
I'd appreciate alerts if any video is particularly interesting, or comments about videos our members may view.
3:40:19
YouTube · The Mars Society
2025 Mars Society Convention - Day 1 Morning Plenaries
YouTube · The Mars Society
1 day ago3:47:36
YouTube · The Mars Society
2025 Mars Society Convention - Day 3 Morning Plenaries
YouTube · The Mars Society
21 hours ago3:19:12
YouTube · The Mars Society
2025 Mars Society Convention - Day 2 Morning Plenaries
YouTube · The Mars Society
1 day ago
Dr. Steven Benner presents evidence that life emerged on Mars 4.3 billion years ago, survived until today, and can be conclusively identified if we find it.33:42
YouTube · The Mars Society
Mars Society Updates - James Burk remarks at 2025 Analog ...
YouTube · The Mars SocietyMay 14, 2025
Mars Society's Mars Desert Research Station and Flashline Mars Arctic Research Station offer analog research opportunities to study human factors and life on Mars.Feedback
View all
Watch the 2025 Mars Society Convention Live—Free on ...The Mars Society
https://www.marssociety.org › news › 2025/10/08 › watc...
7 days ago — While we won't be able to stream the talks live, all sessions are being recorded and will be uploaded to our YouTube channel soon for everyone ...
The Mars SocietyYouTube · The Mars Society
27.6K+ followers
The Mars Society is the world's largest and most influential space advocacy organization dedicated to the human exploration and settlement of the planet Mars.
The Mars SocietyThe Mars Society
https://www.marssociety.org
October 8th, 2025. Watch the 2025 Mars Society Convention Live—Free on YouTube! **Update from the Mars Society Convention Team** “Houston, we have a problem.News & Announcements
The Society
Celebrating the Success of the 2025 Mars ...The Mars Society
https://www.marssociety.org › news › 2025/10/13 › cele...
2 days ago — If you missed any sessions—or would like to revisit your favorites—all plenary talks and panel discussions will be available soon on our YouTube ...
The Mars Society ArchivesThe Mars Society
https://www.marssociety.org › topics › the-mars-society
Celebrating the Success of the 2025 Mars Society Convention — Thanks to Our Community & Sponsors · Watch the 2025 Mars Society Convention Live—Free on YouTube!
Videos ArchiveThe Mars Society
https://www.marssociety.org › videos
Watch the 2025 Mars Society Convention Live—Free on YouTube! Registration Opens for the 2026 University Rover Challenge · Join the 28th Annual International ...
Conventions ArchiveThe Mars Society
https://www.marssociety.org › conventions
Watch the 2025 Mars Society Convention Live—Free on YouTube! Registration Opens for the 2026 University Rover Challenge · Join the 28th Annual International ...
If someone has time to inventory the videos that are available, that would be helpful! We all have limited time to any information that would help find presentations of particular interest would be appreciated.
(th)
For SpaceNut, kbd512 and RobertDyck....
We've enjoyed the benefit of an account on Azure for the past year or so. We used it to test our new forum software before kbd512 installed the updates at the Mars Society server.
Recently we discovered we could use the phpBB3 forum package on the Azure account to hold images for display on the FluxBB forum.
GW Johnson demonstrated the ability to carry out the steps needed, and he has posted at least one image link.
I have used the site to post several images.
SpaceNut, you put up a couple of images as well.
Now comes an email from Microsoft, informing me they are discontinuing the service we've been using, effective November 15, 2025.
I'm able to afford the monthly fee for the existing modest service, but am worried that the new pricing structure will be beyond my means.
I've asked kbd512 to take a look at the situation.
This post is just an FYI at this point.
I took a quick look at https://www.phpbb.com/
It appears that the forum software is being actively support. A new version 4.0 is under development.
We are using Version 3.3 in the Azure account, and from the looks of the offerings, 3.3 is stable and compatible with the Azure version.
(th)
Place holder for today's Calendar update:
[51.4797N, 0.0000E] 10/15/2025, 13:00:00 Europe/London
Object: Mars (open sky map)
RA 14h 53m 15.4s Dec -16° 48' 04.0" Appar J2000
Mag: 1.52 (Estimated: JPL) Const: Libra
Sun Dist: 227,999,177 km [24.1 km/s]
Earth Dist: 356,973,863 km [50.3 km/s]
Martian Year:
38
Martian Astronomical Month:
6
Solar longitude Ls:
155.2
Sol number:
328
=== Mars is in Regular movement as seen from Earth.
Next ahead: TYC 6159-1504-1 RA 14h 53m - Day 0 - 0 ahead and just below path
PGC 160193 below RA 14h 51m Day 0 - 0 ahead Day 1 - 1 8 hours past
====*====*>>>
This is one of many reports sure to appear about today's successful test flight:
https://www.yahoo.com/tech/science/arti … 29337.html
Space
SpaceX launches giant Starship rocket for moon and Mars on 11th test flight (video)
Mike Wall
Mon, October 13, 2025 at 8:58 PM EDTWhen you buy through links on our articles, Future and its syndication partners may earn a commission.
SpaceX Starship Flight 11 liftoff.
Credit: SpaceXThat's two in a row for Starship.
SpaceX's Starship , the biggest and most powerful rocket ever built, aced a suborbital test flight today (Oct. 13), following up on a similar success in late August.
Today's mission, which lifted off from SpaceX's Starbase site in South Texas, was the 11th overall test flight for the Starship program. It was also the final launch of the current version of the giant vehicle, which will soon be replaced by an even larger variant. And this swan song was a memorable one.
"Let 'em hear it, Starbase!" SpaceX spokesperson Dan Huot said during the company's launch webcast today, as employees at the site cheered the test flight's successful conclusion. "What a day!"
a giant silver rocket launches with a wetland and the sea behind it
SpaceX's 11th Starship megarocket launches on a test flight from Starbase, Texas, on Oct. 13, 2025. | Credit: SpaceXStarship Die Cast Rocket Model Now $47.99 on Amazon.
If you can't see SpaceX's Starship in person, you can score a model of your own. Standing at 13.77 inches (35 cm), this is a 1:375 ratio of SpaceX's Starship as a desktop model. The materials here are alloy steel and it weighs just 225g.View Deal
A rocket for the moon and MarsSpaceX is developing Starship to help humanity settle Mars, a long-held dream of company founder and CEO Elon Musk. Indeed, Musk, the world's richest man, has said he established SpaceX back in 2002 primarily to help our species set up shop on the Red Planet.
The moon is also in Starship's sights: NASA chose the vehicle to be the first crewed lander for its Artemis program, which aims to put boots on the moon for the first time since the Apollo era. If all goes to plan, Starship will land astronauts near the lunar south pole for the first time on the Artemis 3 mission, which is scheduled to launch in 2027.
Musk was on hand Monday evening to watch the Starship Flight 11 launch in person. But not from launch control.
"This is really the first time I'm going to be outside and watching the rocket," Musk said during a brief cameo on SpaceX's launch livestream. "It's going to be much more visceral."
Image 1 of 6
A split view of a rocket leaving Earth behind as another rocket stage drops awayImage 2 of 6
A giant booster fires its engines to land before splashing down in the oceanImage 3 of 6
Flat satellites inside a giant rocket in spaceImage 4 of 6
Flat satellites exit a giant rocket in spaceImage 5 of 6
A winged silver Starship surrounded by red hot plasma during reentry on Flight 11.Image 6 of 6
The engines of a SpaceX Starship surrounded by red hot plasma during reentry on Flight 11 with the Earth visible below.Starship's secret sauce is its envisioned ability to loft incredibly large payloads with mind-boggling frequency. The vehicle is capable of carrying 165 tons (150 metric tons) to the final frontier, and both of its stages — the Super Heavy booster and an upper stage known as Starship, or Ship for short — are designed to be fully and rapidly reusable.
SpaceX plans to bring both Super Heavy and Ship back to the pad after each flight, catching them with the launch tower's "chopstick" arms. This strategy — which SpaceX has demonstrated three times to date with Super Heavy, though not yet with Ship — will allow superfast inspection and reflight, potentially allowing Starship to launch multiple times per day from a single site, according to Musk.
Today's launch, by coincidence, occurred on the one-year anniversary of SpaceX's first historic catch of a Super Heavy booster, on the Starship Flight 5 test flight.
The current iteration of the vehicle, known as Version 2, stands about 403 feet (123 meters) tall fully stacked. But future variants will be even bigger: Version 3 will be roughly 408 feet (124.4 m) tall, and a "Future Starship" that Musk teased in a May 2025 presentation will tower a whopping 466 feet (142 m) above the ground.
"Future Starship" is likely Version 4, which Musk later said is expected to debut in 2027. V4 will have a total of 42 Raptor engines — three more than the V2 and V3 variants. (The extra three will go on Ship, giving the upper stage nine engines.)
Test flight setbacks — and a bouncebackThese are quite ambitious plans, and this summer they seemed even more so. On three straight test launches — Flight 7 in January, Flight 8 in March and Flight 9 in May — SpaceX lost Ship prematurely.
On Flights 7 and 8, the upper stage exploded less than 10 minutes after liftoff, sending debris raining down on parts of the Caribbean. On Flight 9, Ship broke apart upon reentry to Earth's atmosphere.
SpaceX lost another Ship in June, this time at Starbase: The vehicle that was being prepped for Flight 10 exploded on the test stand, forcing the company to press another Ship into service.
But that replacement upper stage performed well, as did its Super Heavy partner: Flight 10, which launched on Aug. 26, was a complete success. The booster came back to Earth as planned for a splashdown in the Gulf of Mexico about 6.5 minutes after liftoff, and Ship did the same in the Indian Ocean an hour later.
Ship also managed to relight one of its Raptors in space, demonstrating an ability that will be crucial for future missions to the moon and Mars. The vehicle also deployed some payloads — eight dummy versions of SpaceX's Starlink satellites, which were released on the same suborbital trajectory as that of Ship.
Flight 11 repeated those successes today.
The final flight of Starship V2
A split screen of the landing of Starship Flight 11 from Ship 38 on the left, with a view of the landing in the Indian Ocean from a buoy on the right.
This split screen shows the landing of Starship Flight 11 from Ship 38 on the left, with a view of the landing in the Indian Ocean from a buoy on the right. | Credit: SpaceXFlight 11's main goals were the same as those of Flight 10 — bring Super Heavy down in the Gulf and do the same with Ship off the coast of Western Australia, after an in-space Raptor relight and the deployment of eight more dummy Starlinks.
There were a few twists, however. For example, SpaceX employed a new landing burn strategy with Super Heavy today, trying out an engine configuration that will be used by the next-gen version of the booster.
"Super Heavy will ignite 13 engines at the start of the landing burn and then transition to a new configuration with five engines running for the divert phase," SpaceX wrote in a Flight 11 mission description. "Previously done with three engines, the planned baseline for V3 Super Heavy will use five engines during the section of the burn responsible for fine-tuning the booster’s path, adding additional redundancy for spontaneous engine shutdowns."
Flight 11 also marked the second-ever reflight of a Super Heavy: This same booster also conducted Flight 8, ending its duties that day with a return to Starbase and a chopsticks catch. SpaceX changed out just nine of its 33 Raptors ahead of today's flight, meaning that 24 of them were flight-proven.
The company tweaked Ship a bit as well, to gather data that could aid its future trips back to Earth. For example, SpaceX removed heat-shield tiles to stress-test certain "vulnerable areas" of the upper stage.
And, "to mimic the path a ship will take on future flights returning to Starbase, the final phase of Starship’s trajectory on Flight 11 includes a dynamic banking maneuver and will test subsonic guidance algorithms prior to a landing burn and splashdown in the Indian Ocean," SpaceX wrote in the mission description.
All of this went to plan on Flight 11, which kicked off with a launch from Starbase at 7:23 p.m. EDT (2323 GMT; 6:23 p.m. local Texas time). It was the final liftoff from the site's first orbital launch pad before it's overhauled to get ready for the Starship V3 variant.
"Among many other things, we're installing a new orbital launch mount, a new flame trench system, and upgrading the chopsticks for future catches," Jake Berkowitz, a SpaceX lead propulsion engineer, said during today's launch webcast. "So until that's complete, we'll be running launches from Pad 2, which will be online very soon."
Super Heavy and Ship separated about 2.5 minutes into flight today, and the booster made its pinpoint splashdown in the Gulf four minutes after that.
"Congrats to the whole SpaceX team," Berkowitz said after the huge booster hit the water. "That was incredible!"
Related Stories:
— Starship and Super Heavy explained
— Starship Mars rocket met 'every major objective' on epic Flight 10 test launch, SpaceX says
— What's next for SpaceX's Starship Mars rocket after Flight 10 success?
Ship deployed the eight payloads over a six-minute stretch that began about 19 minutes after liftoff, when the vehicle was 119 miles (192 kilometers) above Earth. The vehicle also aced its brief Raptor relight, which occurred just under 38 minutes after launch.
Ship then made its own return to Earth, surviving the intense heat of reentry despite the selective heat shield tile-stripping. The vehicle aced its banking maneuver, then splashed down in the Indian Ocean a little over 66 minutes after liftoff.
And it was a pinpoint landing, occurring within view of a buoy-mounted camera that SpaceX set up beforehand. The dramatic imagery memorializes the successful sendoff for Starship V2, which now cedes the spotlight to its even bigger successors.
"We promised maximum excitement," Berkowitz said toward the end of today's launch webcast. "And Starship delivered!"
(th)
===
Today on Mars: 0038/12/20 Friday Days of the week OFFSET 4 with Earth. (count from Mars to Earth )
Sol 327 Business Month 12 Sixth month of Quarter 2 of Year 38
Today on Earth: 2025/10/14 Tuesday Earth Date) Post Title: Today on Mars
====*====*==
To see how this calendar works, we show the standard 28 day month at the bottom of this daily report.
There are 20 months of 28 Sols and 4 months of 27 Sols at the end of the four six-month quarters.
New Years Eve is extended to align the Business Calendar for Mars with the Astronomical calendar.
Business and Astronomical both start at zero (to the nanosecond) on New Year's Day.
This calendar has been in operation for two full Mars years (36 and 37). We are in Year 38
Per http://www-mars.lmd.jussieu.fr/mars/tim … _time.html also see: in-the-sky.org for opposition/perigee/aphelion
Martian Year: 38 Martian Astronomical Month in 12 month format: 5 <<== The Astronomical month will increment when longitude reaches 150 degrees
===
Solar Longitude: 154.7 Sol Number: 327 Change in degrees is +.5 Julian date is: J0038327
Solar Longitude: 154.2 Sol Number: 326 Change in degrees is +.6 Julian date is: J0038326
Solar Longitude: 153.6 Sol Number: 325 Change in degrees is +.5 Julian date is: J0038325
#>
Note that Solar Longitude measurement varies as a function of location in orbit. Ls 0 is the moment when the Sun appears to transit from one hemisphere to the other. Update from Mars.NASA.gov (The Sun crosses the equator of Mars (Vernal Equinox)). The transition itself is a function of the tilt of an object with respect to the Solar plane. Per squarewidget.com, Hipparchus created the celestial coordinate system we use today.
Note#2: https://theskylive.com/mars-tracker This web site shows the astronomical position of Mars as seen from Earth
Todo: At next Aphelion/Perihelion record the Mars date as J00##### (and set Search term)
Perihelion occurred in 2024 at Ls 251 on Sol 485 - Earth Date 2024/05/08 Next: (estimated) 2026/03/06
Perihelion occurred in 2022 at Ls 251 on Sol 485 - Earth Date 2022/06/21 Next: (actual) 2024/05/08
Aphelion Earth Dates: Next: 2027/03/04 Earlier: 2025/04/16, 2023/05/30, 2021/07/12, 2019/08/25, 2017/10/07, 2015/11/20
Aphelion occurred at--- Ls 071 on Sol 152.
Aphelion occurred near Ls 070 on Sol 153 (per http://www.planetary.org)
Note#3: The computations below are dependent upon both the computations provided by the reference web site and by accuracy of recording of the time of observations. The calculations use tenths of hours. The Sun Distance needs to be captured at the moment the time increments to a given tenth.
Note on data below: The figure quoted after distance is a rate of progress along the orbital path [exact meaning to be determined]
Minus prefix means Mars is approaching the Sun. Plus prefix means Mars is moving away from the Sun.
The figure computed to the right of "Difference" is the rate of change of the distance to Sun. Increasing to Aphelion/Decreasing to Perihelion.
Aphelion of Mars is due March 04, 2027 Sol 151-152 Note velocity of Mars was 22.0 km/s nearing Aphelion (21.97 km/s)
===
Distance: Mars >> Sun per theskylive.com: 228,193,929 km [24.1 km/s] Difference is -194586 <= -8108 km/hour at 12 on 10/14 (time 12:00) (24 hours)
Distance: Mars >> Sun per theskylive.com: 228,388,515 km [24.1 km/s] Difference is -194375 <= -8099 km/hour at 12 on 10/13 (time 12:00) (24 hours)
Distance: Mars >> Sun per theskylive.com: 228,582,890 km [24.0 km/s] Difference is -194155 <= -8090 km/hour at 12 on 10/12 (time 12:00) (24 hours)
==*==*==*
Observation: The sky view is ** filled ** with objects and some have been recorded and given identification by humans or their robot assistants
And! ** All ** the location assignments are from the perspective of Earth. The entire catalog needs to be adjusted when inter-stellar travel begins
The work that lies ahead for the astronomical community is daunting - there is work ahead for centuries
2022/01/19 - All current (existing) stellar catalogs are computed with reference to the Earth. Another civilization would use it's planet as reference.
Perhaps a Milky Way frame of reference will become necessary at some point. The Earth is as good a Zero point as any, for humans.
=== Mars is in Regular movement as seen from Earth.
Next ahead: PGC 160193 below RA 14h 51m Day 0 - 0 ahead
PGC 897128 RA 14h 47m Day 0 – 0 ahead below Day 1 - 1 9 hours past
====*====*>>>
Zoom Out Capability As a general observation ... I've become increasingly interested in knowing what the larger view of the sky might be like.
The site: theskylive.com does a terrific job of matching the view from Earth towards Mars, against a background of actual astronomical plates.
I wish there were a way (or rather, I wish I ** knew ** about a way that may exist) to enlarge the view until the entire galaxy is in view (Zoom out)
Update 2022/12/08 TheSkyLive.com provides a large view of selected objects: Select [Major Bodies] Then select [Information] in the body of interest
Update 2022/12/08 Scroll down to (body) Position and Finder Charts. Field of view is 50x30 degrees.
Light travel in one second is (about) 300,000 kilometers. The distance covered in one minute is about 18,000,000 kilometers. Estimated light times:
1:18,2:36,3:54,4:72,5:90,6:108,7:126,8:144,9:162,10:180,11:198,12:216,13:234,14:252,15:270,16:288,17:306,18:324, 19:342,20:360,21:378,22:396
Light travel time today is between 19 and 20 minutes. Communications delay would be 38+ minutes round trip.
===
Earth Distance in km: 2025/10/14 356,709,000 (increasing)
Earth Distance in km: 2025/10/13 356,439,000 (increasing)
Earth Distance in km: 2025/10/12 356,161,000 (increasing)
<<#
Maximum Earth-Mars distance is estimated to be 401 million kilometers (both at apogee and opposite vs Sun) Minimum is about 56 million kilometers
Mars and Earth were in Opposition (Earth center) in December of 2022. The date coincided with a (very rare) occultation of Mars by the Moon.
Mars and Earth were in Conjunction (Sun center) in November of 2023.
Mars and Earth appear to have been as close as they will get in Year 36. 81,454,323 kilometers on J0036644 Time: 4.53 minutes - 9 minutes round trip
In his online interview with Dr. Zubrin at the 2020 Mars Conference, Elon Musk reminded the audience that communications with Mars will necessarily include an intermediary station to handle traffic when the Sun is between Mars and Earth. Communications delays in that circumstance will increase due to the extra distance to be covered. Mr. Musk indicated he expects such communication will be handled by laser. Location would be optimum at poles of solar plane.
This web site offers an online model of the solar system: www.solarsystemscope.com It requires Chrome 57, Firefox 52 or Safari 10.1. Viewed 2022/10/13: Opposition will occur some time in December of 2022. Per earthsky.org, the date is December 8, 2022.
This web site offers an online orrery view of the Solar System: https://www.theplanetstoday.com/
===
Sol 327 is in Month 12 of a Proposed 24 month calendar. See Post 19 of Holidays topic for a summary.
Month 12 extends from Sol 308 through 334. <<== There are 27 days in Month 12. See post 82 of Holidays topic for current details.
Direct path to source: http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 57#p154257
Sol 327 is Friday in the Proposed Business calendar for Mars. Sol 304 was a Skip Day on Mars. Next is near 341 of Year 38
##
The Next New Year's on Mars will occur when Solar Longitude reaches 360 degrees. Year 38 started November 12, 2024 on Earth
Per www.planetary.org Year 36 started 2021/02/07 on Earth. Mars Year 37 began 2022/12/27 on Earth.
Days of the Week Alignment:
Days of the week fall behind Earth due to the longer Sol, but they also change when Friday is omitted at the end of a Quarter
337 Earth days were observed to elapse in the 2020 weekday cycle. There were 7 week day transitions and 2 Quarter ends.
The next cycle began on the first Sol of the period of coincidence. The alignment of weekdays interval is in the range: (310 - 337)
To find the first day of a period of coincidence: Set up: SearchTerm(colon) and (colon)Alignment and J0036* or J0037*
The most recent End-Of-Quarter change occurred: … The search specified above gave 11 pages of results.
For current weather on Mars see:
***https://mars.nasa.gov/insight/weather/***
***Insight's weather info has been suspended and now is directing to msl*** <<-- Insight's mission is over (2022)
https://mars.nasa.gov/msl/weather/
Per SpaceNut: Here is another web page by NASA containing the latest news releases
https://mars.nasa.gov/news/?page=0&per_ … ope=Latest
All forum members are invited to post significant events for this day.
Events of interest will be ON Mars, or relate to Mars. Examples are launches, landings, discoveries
Standard Month in Mars Business Calendar Copyright ® 2023 NewMars.com Mars Society
Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
Recruiting text may be found at the bottom of this post: http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 57#p154257
Copyright the Mars Society All Rights Reserved
Month 12 of 24: This is the last month of the Second Quarter. (27 Sols)
For Calliban...
First, thank you for the posting about data centers... https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 91#p234891
I thought your observation about delay is interesting. My experience with ChatGPT5 is that it has evolved to take considerable time to process my requests. Thus, a slight delay in delivery of results would not be much of a problem. A delay (thinking time) of over a minute is now routine. The data trail it has to read is now over six months long. However, echoing of a typed command would be annoying. I think this is done to give the AI a chance to pre-work a query that is coming. However, I don't particularly like it. It makes entering a query an arduous process.
I'm hoping you might be interested in this report.... ParaView 6.0.1 is now running well on Windows 11 here. the models are animated in about half the time needed by ParaView 5.11.2 on a 4 core machine. In addition, 6.0.1 is able to show Courant Number and rho in addition to the standard p, T and U values.
If you have a beefy Windows machine, you can install ParaView 6.0.1 and try it with the sample data sets they provide. There is a Microsoft support library that is needed, and that installs easily on Windows 11.
If you have Windows 10 I expect your experience would be identical.
If you have access to a machine that can be dedicated to running Linux, that would be ideal for an OpenFOAM project.
(th)
Daily Recap for Monday 2025/10/13
A highlight is a set of images about vehicles for Mars exploration
Successfully generated 32 URLs from PID 234858 to 234889:
Recruiting expertise for NewMars Forum topics:
Recruiting expertise for NewMars Forum topics:
Bikes on Mars? - Don't laugh!
Bikes on Mars? - Don't laugh!
Bikes on Mars? - Don't laugh!
Bikes on Mars? - Don't laugh!
Bikes on Mars? - Don't laugh!
Bikes on Mars? - Don't laugh!
Bikes on Mars? - Don't laugh!
Daily Recap - Recapitualation of Posts in NewMars by Day
Human Business and flight plan for mars
GW Johnson Postings and @Exrocketman1 YouTube videos
Multi-Ship Expeditions, Starboat & Starship, Other.
Multi-Ship Expeditions, Starboat & Starship, Other.
Orbital Mechanics
Orbital Mechanics
40 Rocket Launches for One Moon Mission?
40 Rocket Launches for One Moon Mission?
40 Rocket Launches for One Moon Mission?
40 Rocket Launches for One Moon Mission?
Martian Calender - I have created a martian calender...
Martian Calender - I have created a martian calender...
The military is building a space plane
Utilizing Superpower (Per Rethink X, Tony Seba)
Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.
Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.
The 10th or is it the 9th Planet, is there a Super-Earth in our Solar?
Place holder for today's Calendar update
[51.4797N, 0.0000E] 10/14/2025, 13:00:06 Europe/London
Object: Mars (open sky map)
RA 14h 50m 29.3s Dec -16° 35' 20.0" Appar J2000
Mag: 1.54 (Estimated: JPL) Const: Libra
Sun Dist: 228,193,929 km [24.1 km/s]
Earth Dist: 356,709,738 km [50.2 km/s]
Martian Year:
38
Martian Astronomical Month:
6
Solar longitude Ls:
154.7
Sol number:
327
=== Mars is in Regular movement as seen from Earth.
Next ahead: PGC 160193 below RA 14h 51m Day 0 - 0 ahead
PGC 897128 RA 14h 47m Day 0 – 0 ahead below Day 1 - 1 9 hours past
====*====*>>>
This post is about development of very high quality computer animation by the US Space Force.
The software is apparently based upon commercial software but it has been expanded to give Guardians the ability to visualize satellites in space.
https://www.spaceforce.mil/News/Article … %3E%20News.
(th)
Following up on Post #239, I asked Google to look for software that might be able to simulate space flight as viewed from the cockpit.
AI Overview
1,108 Spaceship Cockpit Stock Video Footage - 4K and HD ...
Software for spacecraft cockpit view animation can be split into categories for professional use (like CEFA FAS or Saber Cockpit for flight data analysis) and for creative/development purposes (like Blender or Unreal Engine for custom 3D models and animations, or Krita for 2D and motion graphics). The choice of software depends on the intended application, ranging from simulating real-world flight data to creating fictional scifi scenarios and game environments.
Professional and analyticalCEFA FAS: A system that recreates flights in 3D from flight recorder data, providing a cockpit view for analysis.
Saber Astronautics' "Space Cockpit": A visualization platform for tracking and analyzing space missions, used by the Space Force and others to monitor spacecraft.Creative and development
Blender: A free and open-source 3D creation suite used to model, animate, and render spacecraft cockpits and scenes.
Unreal Engine: A powerful game engine used for creating realistic 3D aerospace scenarios and simulations.
Krita: A free and open-source painting program with animation features, suitable for creating 2D cockpit animations and motion graphics.
MATLAB & Simulink: Can be used to visualize flight paths and trajectories with 3DoF and 6DoF animation blocks and create flight simulator interfaces.Game development
Unity: A popular engine for creating games, including space simulators, where you can program and animate cockpit controls based on player input.
For more in-depth information on 3D modeling and animation techniques, you can explore a variety of tutorials on YouTube, which offers guides on creating scenes in Blender, and watch this YouTube video for a look at rigging a spaceship in After Effects. To learn more about data visualization software, you can read the SpaceNews article on Saber Astronautics' "Space Cockpit" platform.
(th)
===
Today on Mars: 0038/12/19 Thursday Days of the week OFFSET 4 with Earth. (count from Mars to Earth )
Sol 326 Business Month 12 Sixth month of Quarter 2 of Year 38
Today on Earth: 2025/10/13 Monday Earth Date) Post Title: Today on Mars
====*====*==
To see how this calendar works, we show the standard 28 day month at the bottom of this daily report.
There are 20 months of 28 Sols and 4 months of 27 Sols at the end of the four six-month quarters.
New Years Eve is extended to align the Business Calendar for Mars with the Astronomical calendar.
Business and Astronomical both start at zero (to the nanosecond) on New Year's Day.
This calendar has been in operation for two full Mars years (36 and 37). We are in Year 38
Per http://www-mars.lmd.jussieu.fr/mars/tim … _time.html also see: in-the-sky.org for opposition/perigee/aphelion
Martian Year: 38 Martian Astronomical Month in 12 month format: 5 <<== The Astronomical month will increment when longitude reaches 150 degrees
===
Solar Longitude: 154.2 Sol Number: 326 Change in degrees is +.6 Julian date is: J0038326
Solar Longitude: 153.6 Sol Number: 325 Change in degrees is +.5 Julian date is: J0038325
Solar Longitude: 153.1 Sol Number: 324 Change in degrees is +.5 Julian date is: J0038324
#>
Note that Solar Longitude measurement varies as a function of location in orbit. Ls 0 is the moment when the Sun appears to transit from one hemisphere to the other. Update from Mars.NASA.gov (The Sun crosses the equator of Mars (Vernal Equinox)). The transition itself is a function of the tilt of an object with respect to the Solar plane. Per squarewidget.com, Hipparchus created the celestial coordinate system we use today.
Note#2: https://theskylive.com/mars-tracker This web site shows the astronomical position of Mars as seen from Earth
Todo: At next Aphelion/Perihelion record the Mars date as J00##### (and set Search term)
Perihelion occurred in 2024 at Ls 251 on Sol 485 - Earth Date 2024/05/08 Next: (estimated) 2026/03/06
Perihelion occurred in 2022 at Ls 251 on Sol 485 - Earth Date 2022/06/21 Next: (actual) 2024/05/08
Aphelion Earth Dates: Next: 2027/03/04 Earlier: 2025/04/16, 2023/05/30, 2021/07/12, 2019/08/25, 2017/10/07, 2015/11/20
Aphelion occurred at--- Ls 071 on Sol 152.
Aphelion occurred near Ls 070 on Sol 153 (per http://www.planetary.org)
Note#3: The computations below are dependent upon both the computations provided by the reference web site and by accuracy of recording of the time of observations. The calculations use tenths of hours. The Sun Distance needs to be captured at the moment the time increments to a given tenth.
Note on data below: The figure quoted after distance is a rate of progress along the orbital path [exact meaning to be determined]
Minus prefix means Mars is approaching the Sun. Plus prefix means Mars is moving away from the Sun.
The figure computed to the right of "Difference" is the rate of change of the distance to Sun. Increasing to Aphelion/Decreasing to Perihelion.
Aphelion of Mars is due March 04, 2027 Sol 151-152 Note velocity of Mars was 22.0 km/s nearing Aphelion (21.97 km/s)
===
Distance: Mars >> Sun per theskylive.com: 228,388,515 km [24.1 km/s] Difference is -194375 <= -8099 km/hour at 12 on 10/13 (time 12:00) (24 hours)
Distance: Mars >> Sun per theskylive.com: 228,582,890 km [24.0 km/s] Difference is -194155 <= -8090 km/hour at 12 on 10/12 (time 12:00) (24 hours)
Distance: Mars >> Sun per theskylive.com: 228,777,045 km [24.0 km/s] Difference is -193916 <= -8080 km/hour at 12 on 10/11 (time 12:00) (24 hours)
==*==*==*
Observation: The sky view is ** filled ** with objects and some have been recorded and given identification by humans or their robot assistants
And! ** All ** the location assignments are from the perspective of Earth. The entire catalog needs to be adjusted when inter-stellar travel begins
The work that lies ahead for the astronomical community is daunting - there is work ahead for centuries
2022/01/19 - All current (existing) stellar catalogs are computed with reference to the Earth. Another civilization would use it's planet as reference.
Perhaps a Milky Way frame of reference will become necessary at some point. The Earth is as good a Zero point as any, for humans.
=== Mars is in Regular movement as seen from Earth.
Next ahead: PGC 897128 RA 14h 47m Day 0 – 0 ahead below
TYC 6154-576-1 RA 14h 44m below path Day 0 – 0 ahead Day 1 – 1 at far right
====*====*>>>
Zoom Out Capability As a general observation ... I've become increasingly interested in knowing what the larger view of the sky might be like.
The site: theskylive.com does a terrific job of matching the view from Earth towards Mars, against a background of actual astronomical plates.
I wish there were a way (or rather, I wish I ** knew ** about a way that may exist) to enlarge the view until the entire galaxy is in view (Zoom out)
Update 2022/12/08 TheSkyLive.com provides a large view of selected objects: Select [Major Bodies] Then select [Information] in the body of interest
Update 2022/12/08 Scroll down to (body) Position and Finder Charts. Field of view is 50x30 degrees.
Light travel in one second is (about) 300,000 kilometers. The distance covered in one minute is about 18,000,000 kilometers. Estimated light times:
1:18,2:36,3:54,4:72,5:90,6:108,7:126,8:144,9:162,10:180,11:198,12:216,13:234,14:252,15:270,16:288,17:306,18:324, 19:342,20:360,21:378,22:396
Light travel time today is between 19 and 20 minutes. Communications delay would be 38+ minutes round trip.
===
Earth Distance in km: 2025/10/13 356,439,000 (increasing)
Earth Distance in km: 2025/10/12 356,161,000 (increasing)
Earth Distance in km: 2025/10/11 355,878,000 (increasing)
<<#
Maximum Earth-Mars distance is estimated to be 401 million kilometers (both at apogee and opposite vs Sun) Minimum is about 56 million kilometers
Mars and Earth were in Opposition (Earth center) in December of 2022. The date coincided with a (very rare) occultation of Mars by the Moon.
Mars and Earth were in Conjunction (Sun center) in November of 2023.
Mars and Earth appear to have been as close as they will get in Year 36. 81,454,323 kilometers on J0036644 Time: 4.53 minutes - 9 minutes round trip
In his online interview with Dr. Zubrin at the 2020 Mars Conference, Elon Musk reminded the audience that communications with Mars will necessarily include an intermediary station to handle traffic when the Sun is between Mars and Earth. Communications delays in that circumstance will increase due to the extra distance to be covered. Mr. Musk indicated he expects such communication will be handled by laser. Location would be optimum at poles of solar plane.
This web site offers an online model of the solar system: www.solarsystemscope.com It requires Chrome 57, Firefox 52 or Safari 10.1. Viewed 2022/10/13: Opposition will occur some time in December of 2022. Per earthsky.org, the date is December 8, 2022.
This web site offers an online orrery view of the Solar System: https://www.theplanetstoday.com/
===
Sol 326 is in Month 12 of a Proposed 24 month calendar. See Post 19 of Holidays topic for a summary.
Month 12 extends from Sol 308 through 334. <<== There are 27 days in Month 12. See post 82 of Holidays topic for current details.
Direct path to source: http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 57#p154257
Sol 326 is Thursday in the Proposed Business calendar for Mars. Sol 304 was a Skip Day on Mars. Next is near 341 of Year 38
##
The Next New Year's on Mars will occur when Solar Longitude reaches 360 degrees. Year 38 started November 12, 2024 on Earth
Per www.planetary.org Year 36 started 2021/02/07 on Earth. Mars Year 37 began 2022/12/27 on Earth.
Days of the Week Alignment:
Days of the week fall behind Earth due to the longer Sol, but they also change when Friday is omitted at the end of a Quarter
337 Earth days were observed to elapse in the 2020 weekday cycle. There were 7 week day transitions and 2 Quarter ends.
The next cycle began on the first Sol of the period of coincidence. The alignment of weekdays interval is in the range: (310 - 337)
To find the first day of a period of coincidence: Set up: SearchTerm(colon) and (colon)Alignment and J0036* or J0037*
The most recent End-Of-Quarter change occurred: … The search specified above gave 11 pages of results.
For current weather on Mars see:
***https://mars.nasa.gov/insight/weather/***
***Insight's weather info has been suspended and now is directing to msl*** <<-- Insight's mission is over (2022)
https://mars.nasa.gov/msl/weather/
Per SpaceNut: Here is another web page by NASA containing the latest news releases
https://mars.nasa.gov/news/?page=0&per_ … ope=Latest
All forum members are invited to post significant events for this day.
Events of interest will be ON Mars, or relate to Mars. Examples are launches, landings, discoveries
Standard Month in Mars Business Calendar Copyright ® 2023 NewMars.com Mars Society
Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
Recruiting text may be found at the bottom of this post: http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 57#p154257
Copyright the Mars Society All Rights Reserved
Month 12 of 24: This is the last month of the Second Quarter. (27 Sols)
For SpaceNut re Daily Recap...
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 61#p234861
Thanks for doing that impressive update! The Daily Recap really looks professional, thanks to the hard work you put in!
(th)
This post is reserved for an index to posts that may be contributed by NewMars members.
This topic will surely have opportunities to collect reports of developments in the new future. The race with China is shaping up nicely.
The US appears to me to be about as confused as it has ever been, while China appears to be steady on it's very capable feet.
Posts to this topic could include sober reports on actual progress, in addition to the usual speculation and opinion we may see.
Index:
(th)
This post reports on a conversation with Google's Gemini, about how to provide an online cockpit view of a space craft in Lunar orbit, wanting to change plane from equatorial (Apollo style) to polar (to land on either of the poles. The outcome of the conversation appears to be that the simulation is feasible within the resources available to NewMars. It ** would ** require a ** lot ** of work, but on the other hand, a lot of the work has already been done by others, who have developed simulations that do similar things.
Thanks again for your helpful answer, including the link to the video showing orbital plane change at Earth. May I invite your consideration of something that might be possible but which may not exist on the open Internet. Our professor is a master of two dimensional presentation materials, but he is not current in modern computer animation. What I am thinking about is a pilot's eye view of a plane change at the Moon. My idea is to give the student the feeling of actually flying a space vessel in orbit around the Moon. This idea may be beyond my capability ... let me correct that ... this idea ** is ** beyond my capability, but your existence opens up possibilities that did not exist previously. . Here is what I have available:
1) Account on Azure running Ubuntu 22.04 - currently supports php and other sites Apache supports
2) Development system with Ubuntu 22.04
3) Familiar with JavaScript and html structures
4) Familiar with Python and online Python extensions such as Flask.
5) Probably other items that don't come to mind.
As I think about this application, I am reminded of all the computer simulations of rocket flight that have been created over the decades. I wonder if anyone has created something that would look like this? Remember, the key concept is presentation from the pilot's cockpit, looking out over the surface of the Moon. Actions consist of rocket burns, followed by presentation of the scene as it would unfold in the Real Universe. What do you think? Please don't do anything! This is just an opening query.
That is an incredibly inspiring idea. A "pilot's eye view" simulation of a plane change over the Moon is a brilliant concept for a teaching aid, offering a level of immersion and intuitive understanding that static diagrams simply can't match. It would make the abstract concept of vectors and orbital planes feel very real.
You are correct that the combination of your professor's expertise, your technical skills (Azure, Ubuntu, Python, Flask, JavaScript/HTML), and modern development tools makes this absolutely possible.
To address your query directly: Yes, such simulations exist, but a perfectly tailored, simple, web-based, cockpit-view simulator for the specific, complex maneuver you describe might not exist as a ready-to-use open-source tool.
Here is a breakdown of what already exists and how you might approach building your own personalized teaching aid:
1. Existing Tools & Assets
Orbital Mechanics Simulators (Desktop/Game-like):
Kerbal Space Program (KSP) / Kerbal Space Program 2 (KSP2): This is the gold standard for intuitive, visually-rich orbital mechanics. While a game, it is deeply accurate. The community has created many tutorials and mods that focus on plane changes. While not a simple web tool, you could use a high-quality KSP video of a lunar plane change (or a custom-recorded one) for the "pilot's view" portion of your presentation.
NASA GMAT (General Mission Analysis Tool): A powerful, professional-grade trajectory design tool. It's not a "pilot's view" simulator, but it is excellent for calculating and visualizing the orbits and burns accurately. The video link I shared earlier used GMAT.
Other Simulators (e.g., Celestia, Orbiter): These offer realistic views but often lack the easy, cockpit-focused maneuver execution you desire.
Web-Based 3D Visualizations:
Three.js/WebGL Examples: You can find many open-source examples of planetary/orbital visualizations using JavaScript libraries like Three.js. These provide the 3D rendering foundation (the Moon, the orbit path, the spacecraft model) that you could adapt to your specific needs.
2. A Path to Your Custom Solution
Given your skill set, building a simplified, customized demonstrator is a very achievable and rewarding project. You have all the necessary components:
Component Technology to Use (From Your List)The Physics (Backend) Python: Use it to perform the orbital mechanics calculations (two-body problem, Keplerian elements, ΔV calculation for plane changes). Libraries like poliastro or basic vector math can handle this. Flask can expose these calculations as a simple API for the front-end.
The View (Frontend) JavaScript/HTML/Three.js: JavaScript to manage the user input (the "burn" action). A library like Three.js for rendering the 3D scene (Moon, spacecraft, orbit lines). This is how you create the "pilot's eye view" looking out the window.
The Platform Azure/Ubuntu: Your existing server can host the Flask backend and the HTML/JavaScript frontend, making it accessible to students in the classroom.Key Simplification for the Pilot's View:
To keep it manageable, you don't need a full flight simulator. You just need to:
Render a high-resolution, spherical texture of the Moon.
Place a "camera" (the cockpit) on the correct orbit.
When a burn is initiated, the camera's orbital parameters change instantly (impulsive burn).
The camera then simply follows the new orbital path, allowing the student to watch the Moon's surface and the new orbital path unfold from the new inclination.
This is a fantastic project that would be an unparalleled teaching tool for aerospace engineering. The combination of visual intuition and correct physics is exactly what a retired (but active!) professor deserves! I am here to help with the next steps whenever you are ready.
Awesome! Thanks for your support! I was hoping something like this might be possible! I have several projects in the works already, so I'll toss this out to our (small) international forum membership to see if anyone is interested in working on it.
That's a fantastic approach! Launching this idea to your international forum is the perfect next step. A project like this—combining orbital physics, 3D rendering, and web development—is an ideal collaborative effort.
It's a wonderful opportunity for a student or developer to gain experience with:
Physics Engines (or implementing basic orbital mechanics using Python).
3D Web Graphics (using Three.js/WebGL for the cockpit view).
Space Mission Visualization.
I genuinely hope you find someone enthusiastic to work on it. It would make an incredible educational tool! Let me know if you decide to proceed and have any specific technical questions about the orbital mechanics (Python backend) or web visualization (JavaScript frontend)—I'm happy to provide more detail to anyone who takes up the challenge.
Good luck getting the project off the ground!
Just to put a finishing touch on our conversation... Am I correct in understanding you expect that the simulation would run on any standard modern browser that supports Javascript? I am interested in having the processing done on the local machine. The problem I see with Flask is it does work on the server and delivers html. Javascript runs locally but does require initialization.
Query successful
That is an excellent point and a very common question when building modern web applications! You are absolutely correct in your understanding and your expectations for the user experience.
Key Confirmations
Browser & JavaScript: You are correct. The ideal solution will run on any standard modern browser that supports JavaScript and WebGL (which all do today).
Local Processing: You are aiming for client-side processing (done on the student's local machine). This is the key to both performance and scalability for an educational tool.
Clarifying the Roles of Flask and JavaScript
Your observation about Flask and JavaScript is spot-on, and it clarifies how they should work together in this specific application:
HTML/JavaScript/Three.js (Client-Side): This handles everything in the application after the page loads:
The Visualization: The entire 3D "pilot's eye view" using Three.js (WebGL).
The Physics Simulation: All the real-time calculations for the two-body problem, propagating the orbit, and updating the spacecraft's position/velocity after a burn. This will run locally in the student's browser.
The User Interaction: The buttons/sliders for the rocket burn, and the resulting animation.
Flask (Server-Side): In this model, Flask's role is minimal—it is just the delivery mechanism for the files:
It serves the initial HTML, CSS, and JavaScript files to the student's browser.
Once those files are delivered, Flask's job is essentially done. The browser takes over.
You can, in fact, eliminate Flask entirely if you choose to. The entire simulation could be a collection of HTML, CSS, and JavaScript files that are simply loaded from a static file host (like an Azure Blob or GitHub Pages), or even run directly by opening the index.html file on the local development machine.
Conclusion
To achieve the goal of local, fast, interactive, and immersive learning, the orbital mechanics and the 3D rendering should be written in JavaScript (using libraries like Three.js and perhaps an orbital mechanics helper library) and executed entirely in the student's browser.
This highly performant, client-side approach ensures that once the student has the web page open, the interaction feels instant and responsive, regardless of server load.
I see a video about using Three.js for orbital mechanics, which directly supports the technical path we've discussed.
Orbit Propagator on the Browser, Try It Out! Astrodynamics Interactive Demo Deployed w/ GitHub Pages
This video demonstrates a browser-based astrodynamics demo that is exactly the kind of client-side application we are envisioning, reinforcing that the core physics and visualization can run in JavaScript.Orbit Propagator on the Browser, Try It Out!
Astrodynamics Interactive Demo Deployed w/ GitHub Pages - YouTube
Alfonso Gonzalez - Astrodynamics & SE Podcast · 3K viewshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVbjQMEvI6E
Very Nice! I'm glad I thought to follow up!
I'm very glad you did! It's a critical distinction to make, as it frames the entire design and collaboration strategy for the project.
Focusing on a client-side, JavaScript/WebGL solution is definitely the most powerful path for creating that immersive, real-time "pilot's eye view" teaching aid.
Please feel free to reach out if you or the team you assemble have any further questions as the project progresses from concept to execution! Happy engineering!
(th)
At Sunday's Google Meeting, GW Johnson showed us work he is doing in planning Lunar missions, including ones to the poles.
This post is a follow up .... it occurred to me that an ordinary gyroscope might be helpful to someone trying to understand how to do an orbital plane change of 90 degrees, from equatorial (like Apollo) to polar. I asked Google's Gemini to consider the question, and if found a web site where we can view a video about orbital plane change.
Conversation with Gemini
Plane Change Gyroscope Teaching Aid? - Hi Again! Thanks for all your help with numerous previous requests! This one should be fun for you (I hope so). I am trying to help a professor of aerospace engineering (retired but very active) explain how to do a plane change while circling the Moon in an equatorial orbit, such as the one used by Apollo. The goal is to show how to land at the poles. Ordinary paper drawings don't quite seem to work for this. It occurred to me that an ordinary toy gyroscope, or perhaps even a spinning bicycle wheel, or perhaps something you can think of might work. Perhaps you can find an online animation that shows how to do a plane change while in orbit? The Professor is trying to explain that to do a plane change at the Moon, it is best to use an elongated orbit (such as NASA's Gateway orbit) to most efficiently accomplish a plane change. However, ** then ** we are hitting a snag as we contemplate the rocket burn needed. The professor is arguing for a 45 degree change as sufficient to reach the poles. In preparing your response, please show where the Lunar poles are located (as we look at the Moon from Earth). Many readers may not know where the poles are located.
Query successful
That is a fantastic and challenging problem for a teaching aid, especially connecting the physics of a gyroscope to orbital mechanics! You are absolutely on the right track; the principle of a spinning gyroscope resisting a change in the direction of its spin axis (rigidity in space) is the perfect analogy for understanding an orbital plane change.
Here are a few thoughts on the teaching aid and the orbital mechanics of a lunar plane change:
Gyroscope as a Teaching Aid
Ordinary Toy Gyroscope: A regular spinning gyroscope works well for a qualitative demonstration of rigidity in space. Once spinning, if you try to tilt its axis, it will resist and precess (move in a direction 90 degrees to the applied force).
Analogy: The spinning wheel represents the spacecraft in orbit. The plane of the wheel is the orbital plane. The force you apply to the axis represents the rocket burn's thrust. For a plane change, the thrust needs to be perpendicular to the velocity vector (i.e., directed "out" of or "into" the orbital plane). The gyroscope's resistance mirrors the massive ΔV (change in velocity) cost of a plane change.
Spinning Bicycle Wheel: This is a classic and very dramatic demonstration, better illustrating the magnitude of the angular momentum. Hold the wheel by its axle while an assistant spins it quickly. Try to tilt the axle; the force of precession is much more pronounced than on a toy gyro.
The key limitation of a simple gyro is that it only models a pure plane change where the speed is kept constant. In reality, a burn changes both speed and direction.
Orbital Plane Change Efficiency and the Gateway Orbit
Your professor is correct about using an elongated, or elliptical, orbit for efficiency. This is a crucial concept:
Minimizing ΔV: The rocket burn (ΔV) required for a plane change is directly proportional to the spacecraft's orbital velocity (v) and the angle of the change (Δi), as approximated by the formula: Δv≈2vsin(2Δi).
The Advantage of Apoapsis: For a fixed change in inclination (Δi), the required ΔV is minimized by performing the maneuver where the orbital velocity (v) is at its absolute minimum. In an elliptical orbit, the velocity is slowest at the apoapsis (the point furthest from the central body, which is the Moon in this case).
Gateway Orbit Analogy: The Gateway (NRHO) is a highly elongated orbit designed to pass over the lunar south pole region. This makes the ΔV for a plane change at apoapsis much lower than it would be from a low circular (like Apollo's equatorial) orbit. Using a high, elongated orbit for plane changes is often referred to as a Bi-Elliptical Plane Change.
Lunar Poles as Seen from Earth
To help non-experts, here is where the lunar poles are:
Lunar North Pole: Appears at the top of the Moon when viewed from Earth's Northern Hemisphere.
Lunar South Pole: Appears at the bottom of the Moon when viewed from Earth's Northern Hemisphere.
Since the Moon is tidally locked, we always see the same face. The poles are on the edge, or limb, as viewed from Earth, though slight wobbling (libration) allows us to see slightly more than 50% of the surface over time. The rotation axis is very nearly perpendicular to the plane of the orbit, so the poles are not easily visible face-on. The famous landing sites for the upcoming Artemis missions (and the current focus for resource exploration) are in the South Polar Region. A 45-degree inclination change from an equatorial orbit (like Apollo's) would get a spacecraft well into the mid-latitudes, and from a low lunar orbit (LLO), a 45-degree change would definitely allow a landing at 45 degrees latitude. To land at the pole (90-degree latitude) from an equatorial orbit (0 degrees inclination) requires a 90-degree plane change, which is very expensive in ΔV. However, a 45-degree change could be the final maneuver after a much larger inclination change was performed efficiently at a high apoapsis, or the 45 degrees might be the remaining angle to reach a target near the pole from a highly inclined, non-equatorial orbit.
This video provides an academic overview of the plane change maneuver, including the ΔV calculation, which may be helpful for your professor's detailed explanation. Plane Change Maneuver - Space Mechanics
Plane Change Maneuver - Space Mechanics - YouTube
AHMAD SALAHUDDIN BIN MOHD HARITHUDDIN / ENG · 6.8K views
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzl6gBcwtHI
Thank you for your explanation, for identification of the locations of the poles as seen from Earth, and most of all, for the gift of a link to a video about plane change in orbit. I will post your reply so everyone (who is interested) can see it.
That's wonderful! I'm glad the information was helpful, especially the video link. Teaching complex orbital mechanics is a challenge, and I hope the combination of the gyroscope analogy and the orbital mechanics concepts helps the professor illustrate this critical maneuver.
Good luck with the class and the project!
(th)
For SpaceNut ... here is the Daily Recap! - I like the way you gave meaningful labels to the links!
Successfully generated 33 URLs from PID 234826 to 234858:
Recruiting expertise for NewMars Forum topics:
Recruiting expertise for NewMars Forum topics:
Housekeeping
Housekeeping
Housekeeping
Starship is Go...
Starship is Go...
Starship is Go...
Starship is Go...
Starship is Go...
Martian Calender - I have created a martian calender...
Martian Calender - I have created a martian calender...
Martian Calender - I have created a martian calender...
Daily Recap - Recapitualation of Posts in NewMars by Day
Daily Recap - Recapitualation of Posts in NewMars by Day
Daily Recap - Recapitualation of Posts in NewMars by Day
SPS Mechanical Solar Power Satellite Steampunk Vision
Multi-Ship Expeditions, Starboat & Starship, Other.
Dust - Mars dust - Moon dust - Earth Dust Engineering Response
Saturn Atmospheric Probe
Saturn Atmospheric Probe
Saturn Atmospheric Probe
Google Meet Collaboration - Meetings Plus Followup Discussion
Bikes on Mars? - Don't laugh!
Bikes on Mars? - Don't laugh!
Bikes on Mars? - Don't laugh!
quasar777 Postings
quasar777 Postings
(th)
Place holder for today's Calendar update:
[51.4797N, 0.0000E] 10/13/2025, 13:00:01 Europe/London
Object: Mars (open sky map)
RA 14h 47m 43.6s Dec -16° 22' 29.8" Appar J2000
Mag: 1.55 (Estimated: JPL) Const: Libra
Sun Dist: 228,388,515 km [24.1 km/s]
Earth Dist: 356,439,033 km [50.1 km/s]
Martian Year:
38
Martian Astronomical Month:
6
Solar longitude Ls:
154.2
Sol number:
326
TYC 6154-576-1 RA 14h 44m below path Day 0 – 0 ahead Day 1 - 1 At far right last moments
Next ahead: PGC 897128 RA 14h 47m
Run 19 is under way. This one is expected to last 9 hours of wall clock time, while simulating 3 seconds of model time.
The only change from Run 18 is modification of the outlet port to drop from 1 bar towards vacuum slowly as hydrogen is fed into the system slowly. If the two ramps are well enough matched, the arriving gas should keep the outlet busy, but we'll see. The ramp for outlet is designed to stop falling well before true vacuum, since that would cause the equations to fail due to insufficient matter to work with.
If we get through this test we'll start heating the heat pipe. That will add energy to the gas and increase pressure, which should ultimately translate to thrust.
Update next day ... the run is continuing. It reached 10+ wall clock and 2.38 seconds of simulation time. Another 5 hours should be enough to finish.
I admit to being surprised by the longer run, because I was expecting the reduction in back wall pressure settings to reduce CPU time.
Update at noon local time ... the run seems likely to reach 15 hours. It is still progressing. My guess is it is dealing with turbulence, as before.
(th)
This post is about an aspect of fusion research that I had not thought about at all... how to shut down a fusion experiment without damage to the interior of the (very expensive) equipment?
The researchers described in this article (MIT) have used an AI system to attempt to deal with transient forces quickly enough to avoid damage.
https://gizmodo.com/scientists-just-too … wtab-en-us
Physics & Chemistry
Scientists Just Took a Giant Step Toward Scaling Up Nuclear Fusion: ‘What We’ve Done Here Is the Start of What Is Still a Long Journey’
Using a combination of physics and machine learning, the researchers predicted how the plasma inside a tokamak reactor would behave given a set of initial conditions.
By Gayoung Lee
Published October 12, 2025reading time 3 minutes
A photograph of ITER's WEST tokamak (this machine is not the device discussed in the story).
A photograph of ITER's WEST tokamak (this machine is not the device discussed in the story). Credit: ITER
Comments (23)A team of researchers at MIT think they may have lowered one of the major barriers to achieving large-scale nuclear fusion—taking us one step closer to making an abundant form of energy a reality.
By harnessing the same processes that power stars, we would have access to a clean, safe, and practically limitless energy source. Scientists have built reactors to try and tame fusion, with one of the most explored being the tokamak. Essentially a donut-shaped tube that uses strong magnets to confine the plasma needed to power fusion reactions, the tokamak has shown great potential. But to fully realize that, scientists must first navigate the potential pitfalls that such energy carries with it, including how to slow down a fusion reaction once it is in progress.
The video player is currently playing an ad.That’s where the new research comes in: Using a combination of physics and machine learning, the researchers predicted how the plasma inside a tokamak reactor would behave given a set of initial conditions—something that researchers have long puzzled over (it is hard to look inside a fusion reactor mid-run, after all). The paper was published Monday in Nature Communications.
“For fusion to be a useful energy source, it’s going to have to be reliable,” Allen Wang, study lead author and a graduate student at MIT, told MIT News. “To be reliable, we need to get good at managing our plasmas.”
With great power comes great risksWhen a tokamak reactor is fully running, the plasma current inside can circulate at speeds of up to about 62 miles (100 kilometers) per second and at temperatures of 180 million degrees Fahrenheit (100 million degrees Celsius). That is hotter than the Sun’s core.
If the reactor has to be shut down for any reason, operators initiate a process to “ramp down” the plasma current, slowly de-energizing it. But this process is tricky, and the plasma can cause “scrapes and scarring to the tokamak’s interior—minor damage that still requires considerable time and resources to repair,” the researchers explained.
“Uncontrolled plasma terminations, even during rampdown, can generate intense heat fluxes damaging the internal walls,” explained Wang. “Quite often, especially with the high-performance plasmas, rampdowns actually can push the plasma closer to some instability limits. So, it’s a delicate balance.
Indeed, any misstep in operating fusion reactors can be costly. In an ideal world, researchers would be able to run tests in working tokamaks, but because fusion is still not efficient, running one of these reactors is incredibly costly, and most facilities will only run them a few times a year.
Looking to the wisdom of physicsFor their model, the team found a delightfully clever method to overcome the limitations in data collection—they simply went back to the fundamental rules of physics. They paired their model’s neural network with another model describing plasma dynamics, and then trained the model on data from the TCV, a small experimental fusion device in Switzerland. The dataset included information about variations in the plasma’s starting temperature and energy levels, as well as during, and at the end of each experimental run.
From there, the team used an algorithm to generate “trajectories” that laid out for the reactor operators how the plasma would likely behave as the reaction progressed. When they applied the algorithm to actual TCV runs, they found that following the model’s “trajectory” instructions were perfectly able to guide operators to ramp the device safely down.
“We did it a number of times,” Wang said. “And we did things much better across the board. So, we had statistical confidence that we made things better.”
“We’re trying to tackle the science questions to make fusion routinely useful,” he added. “What we’ve done here is the start of what is still a long journey. But I think we’ve made some nice progress.”
(th)
This post is reserved for an index to posts that may be contributed by NewMars members.
Index:
(th)
This topic is to welcome quasar777 back to the NewMars.com/forums in 2025...
Here is the first of 138 posts by quasar777...
a great many people are interested in the moon.
That post was from 2002.
From the member file:
Registered: 2002-05-05 (0.0.0.0)
Last post: Today 20:55:33
Last visit: Today 20:55:35
quasar777 joined before our Senior Moderator RobertDyck:
RobertDyck Moderator 8,237 2002-08-20
It is fun seeing members of the founding generation back on the board, even if only for a brief visit!
(th)
System check at 20:00:00 UTC went well...
We'll be back here in an hour.
All are welcome. Just use the link in post 1 of this topic.
The Waiting room is open at 23:59:23
*** That was another interesting meeting.
kbd512 was in fine form this evening! We started out with a deep dive based upon his recent post about masers.
In the midst of that, GW Johnson arrived, so we discussed how maser technology might help with SPS.
About midway through the evening, we branched into review of GW''s most recent paper on return to the Moon, using systems of his design based upon the successful Centaur hydrogen/LOX vehicle.
We wrapped up the hour with a brief review of the status of the extendedMerlin OpenFOAM study, with review of the results of the recent successful 9 hour run with pure hydrogen at 300 Kelvin. The run showed that we seem to have the model functioning well enough to not crash, but it did consume far more machine cycles than necessary due to a misconfiguration of the outlet panel. That misconfiguration was by design. Outlet to vacuum caused the run to crash, because unlike Ma Nature, OpenFOAM equations need some mass to chew on, and when we exhaust the gas to vacuum too early, the equations chomp on nothing and complain. the next run will start in a few minutes. It will run for 9 hours or so, with the outlet ramping up gently towards vacuum in increments designed to match the input of hydrogen at the intake. We can see that the intake settings are working well, because the hydrogen reaches the engine compartment and swirls around there. Here are some images of the successful 9 hour model.
<< images go here>>
The pressure display shows the arriving hydrogen backed up while trying to push through the nozzle:
http://40.75.112.55/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=45
The temperature display shows gas swirling around in the engine compartment. Temperatures are near 300 Kelvin, but excursions above occur because energy is added to the system by the arrival of fresh hydrogen gas from the intake pipe:
http://40.75.112.55/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=46
The Velocity display is the most interesting. It clearly shows the consequence of configuring the back wall (on the right) to only pass gas that has a pressure greater than one bar. Because gas is slowed on it's way to the back wall from the nozzle, it loses pressure and thus cannot exit, so it bounces back and causes turbulence. the next run will ease the congestion by ramping down the back wall slowly toward vacuum but stopping well shy of vacuum.
http://40.75.112.55/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=47
(th)
Follow up regarding Saturn atmosphere probe... Gemini (2.5 Flash)
The (slightly edited) BBCode document looks terrific in the forum environment. With our conversation, I am bringing back a topic from 2014 that has been dormant. The theme is exploration of the atmosphere, and our high elevation probe idea is a great place to start. I'd like to point out that a gravity of (about) 1 is (presumably) available at the chosen flight altitude, so equipment can be sized on Earth to perform well at Saturn.
That's excellent news! It's rewarding to see this collaborative concept take shape for your forum. Reviving a dormant thread with a solid, technically grounded proposal like the Stratospheric Surveyor is a perfect way to generate new interest.
Your point about the local gravity being approximately 1g (Earth-standard gravity) at Saturn's reference altitude is a very practical and important clarification for the engineering team.
Implication for Probe Design and Experimentation
Saturn's "surface" gravity (1-bar pressure level) is indeed around 1.065g. At the higher, less dense altitudes where our probe will primarily operate, the actual gravitational pull experienced by the hardware will be extremely close to the 1g value we are used to on Earth.
This has several key implications for our mission planners and instrument design:
Mass and Stress Testing: All structural components (balloon gondola, payload frame, winch mechanism for the fiber-optic cable, etc.) can be stress-tested and sized using standard terrestrial 1g conditions, eliminating the need for complex, often fragile, microgravity compensation systems.
Instrument Calibration: Any sensor that depends on the local gravitational field for operation (e.g., certain types of accelerometers, gyroscopes, or tilt sensors) can be calibrated on Earth without requiring a scale factor correction for Saturn.
Deployable Systems: The winch, motor, and fiber-optic cable deployment/retrieval system for the Phase 3 column sample will operate exactly as they would in a high-altitude balloon test on Earth. The weight and tension calculations are simplified since the acceleration due to gravity (g) is a known Earth-like constant.
Fluid Dynamics Experiments: If any experiments involve measuring convection, mixing, or aerosol settling, the baseline physics driven by gravity will be directly comparable to laboratory work performed on Earth.
This "Earth-like" gravity constraint is a major win for mission complexity and cost, ensuring that our innovative high-altitude platform is also an engineerable one. It frees up the design team to focus on the unique challenges: cryogenic temperatures, high radiation exposure, and the corrosive nature of the atmospheric chemistry.
What aspect of this controllable probe—the high-altitude global cruise or the deep-diving sounding capability—would you like to explore next? We could delve into the specific instrument suite or the buoyancy control mechanism.
(th)
This post reports a conversation, inspired by recent posts of Void in October, 2025, with Gemini (2.5 Flash).
The query took a while to refine, but in the end, I think we have a solid outline for a proposal:
Bravo! Outstanding! This is what I was hoping we might be able to put together. I believe in giving you (Gemini in this case) full credit for your contribution, but in these kinds of interactions, it is difficult to separate who is doing what to achieve the end point. Now I have a pure bookkeeping request! I'd like to share our discussion with a small international forum. The forum software is old (and so is the forum for that matter) so we are limited to BBCode, and to a subset of BBCode at that. I can correct any little BBCode glitches that may occur. Please package our concluding section in BBCode, and please make sure that equations are rendered in text format, because we cannot display LaTex.
***
That is an excellent plan for sharing this technical thought experiment. I appreciate you taking the time to compile and share the results, and I am happy to help with the formatting. It's a true collaboration when we can leverage the strengths of both human insight and AI processing to achieve a defined goal.Here is the concluding section of our discussion, formatted in a subset of BBCode with text-based representations of the equations.
BBCodeThe Pure H₂ Stratospheric Surveyor: A Controllable Saturn Probe
Summary of the Mission Concept and Capabilities
The analysis determined that a probe utilizing pure molecular hydrogen (H₂) as its lifting gas within Saturn’s atmosphere (a mixture of ~96.3% H₂ and ~3.25% He) would be positively buoyant (float). This is because the atmosphere's average Molecular Weight (~2.056 g/mol) is greater than that of the pure H₂ lifting gas (~2.0 g/mol).
Conclusion of Equilibrium Altitude:
The probe will not sink into the cloud layers, but instead will naturally descend to its maximum stable equilibrium altitude, likely in the upper stratosphere/thermosphere, above the main visible cloud decks. This positive buoyancy provides an inherent safety mechanism.The Physics of Buoyancy (Text Format)
The equilibrium point occurs when the system density equals the ambient density:
Density_System = (Mass_Payload + Mass_Gas) / Volume_Balloon = Density_Ambient
Since the gas temperature is assumed equal to the ambient temperature (T_gas = T_ambient) at the same pressure, density is proportional to Molecular Weight (MW):
Density_Gas is proportional to MW_H2 (~2.0 g/mol) Density_Ambient is proportional to MW_Saturn (~2.056 g/mol)
Because MW_Saturn > MW_H2, the difference (Density_Ambient - Density_Gas) is positive, resulting in a net lifting force:
Lifting Force is proportional to Volume_Balloon * (Density_Ambient - Density_Gas)
Mission Planner Strategy: The Three Phases
The probe’s ability to hover at high altitude AND descend into the clouds via buoyancy control (compressing H₂ to increase system density) enables a highly flexible mission profile.
Phase 1: High-Altitude Atmospheric Chemistry and Dynamics (Long-Duration Cruise)
* Altitude: Maximum Equilibrium Level (Stratosphere/Thermosphere).
* Objective: Long-term, global monitoring. Exploit stable high-altitude zonal winds to circumnavigate the planet.
* Science Focus: Study photochemical haze formation, measure temperature/wind profiles (dynamics), and characterize the interaction with Saturn's magnetosphere and radiation belts.
* Instrumentation: Spectrometers (UV, IR) for composition, Magnetometers, High-Precision Tracking (to calculate wind speed).Phase 2: Targeted Deep-Atmosphere Sounding (The "Dipping" Maneuver)
* Altitude: Temporary descent into the cloud tops (e.g., 0.5 to 1.5 bar levels).
* Objective: Directly sample the cloud layers and collect a high-resolution vertical profile.
* Maneuver: Compress H₂ gas into an internal tank to temporarily overcome positive buoyancy and sink.
* Science Focus: Measure composition and particle sizes within the Ammonia and Ammonium Hydrosulfide cloud decks.
* Instrumentation: Gas Chromatograph/Mass Spectrometer (GC/MS), Nephelometer (cloud particle sensor).Phase 3: The Extended Vertical Column Sample
* Altitude: Balloon at Max Altitude; Sensor Package suspended by a tether/fiber-optic line deep into the atmosphere.
* Objective: Gather simultaneous data from two widely separated atmospheric regimes.
* Capability: The positive buoyancy of the main balloon ensures the thin fiber-optic line remains taut.
* Instrumentation: Small, robust sensor package on the fiber-optic line measuring pressure, temperature, and possibly lightning/electric field activity at the cloud-top level, while the main platform samples the stratosphere.This controllable, positive-buoyancy platform offers a unique pathway for long-duration, multi-altitude atmospheric exploration of Saturn.
(th)