New Mars Forums

For Void re launcher system based upon rotating masses...

I created a topic for this system in Interplanetary Transportation.

If you have time, please add a post with information about the system you have been describing in multiple posts in multiple topics.

The application I am proposing is to send a sensor package to intercept and dock with objects passing through the Solar System at interstellar velocities.  Ordinarily these are traveling too rapidly for humans to intercept them with ordinary rockets.  However, a system such as the one you've been describing, that rotates to build up velocity at the outer ends of a tether, would (theoretically) be able to match velocity with the interstellar visitor.  The package that departs in the opposite direction needs to be carefully planned for, since that package will have great velocity and significant mass, and it could do great harm if it hits something in it's path.  What is more, the opposite direction package will circulate in the Solar System if it lacks the velocity to escape, so it will remain a danger to humans until it collides with something. For that reason, the secondary package should contain a radio beacon so it's location will be known to all space travelers, including operators of space habitats that might be impacted.

(th)

The Psyche spacecraft is "near" Mars (as seen from Earth in 2026)...

I asked Google for a bit more information about Psyche (the asteroid) and it came up with this summary:

There is a very good reason Psyche (the spacecraft) is showing up close to Mars. Flight planners will pull energy from Mars to fling Psyche out to the asteroid belt.  Here is Google's summary of the maneuver:

This question was about how close the spacecraft will fly to Mars:

NewMars members will have a rare opportunity to "observe" a flyby maneuver, thanks to the fortuitous combination of NASA flight planning and the daily updates to the Mars Business Calendar here on NewMars.com/forums.

(th)

For Void re contact email....

Thank you for changing to an email address for us to try. A test message was sent. Please let us know if it arrives.

(th)

For SpaceNut .... your post #4 described an entirely different system.

It appears you did not read the article before you went out to find the old way of doing things.

Our readers do not benefit by having an old system laid upon new work, as though the old system were as good as the new one.

(th)

For Void....

This message is about the interesting idea you have included in this post about the Moon...

https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 70#p238770

This is an idea you've described in other topics.

It occurs to me that this technology might deserve a topic of it's own.

Unmanned Probes is a possibility as a Category for a topic just about this idea.

The idea itself may very well be practical, but the details you have revealed so far leave much to the imagination of your readers.

It is clear that the inventor of the idea understands that both ends of the tether must release mass simultaneously.

However, the moment of release is only significant for one of the masses.  The other mass will necessarily go in the exact opposite direction and the exact same velocity, but it will have no relationship to anything else.  The first mass will (presumably) go to it's destination. The second mass will be traveling at a high velocity in the exact opposite direction, and that mass needs to contain a radio transponder because it is a danger to everyone it is's path. Not only that... the mass will curve around the Sun (unless it has Solar System escape velocity) and that means it will remain a risk to anyone or any thing in it's path.

I hope you might be interested in study of this idea a bit further.

From a practical point of view, it should be possible to sue a launch operator who puts a heavy mass on a path that leads to destruction of property or danger or injury to humans.

Insurance companies will be interested in the risks of the operation you've described.

For all these reasons, a topic about this particular technology may have potential for growth.

Void, I am particularly interested in this technology because it appears capable of sending a probe to a visitor to our Solar System that is just passing through at high velocity.  We've had two instances of this in the recent past.  The velocity needed to match flight path with either of these objects was beyond present human capability. The system you've described appears capable of giving a sensor package the velocity and vector it needs to match flight path with those extra-solar visitors.  I think it is definitely worth pursuing, with the caveat about that reverse traveling mass.

(th)

For Void re #234

Thanks for your report that the message did not go through.

We did not send a message because you are using a secure email provider.  Do you have control of the approved correspondents?  Am I correct in thinking you pay a subscription to belong to this service?  Your experience is valuable to us because Calliban is using the same service.  Did you try sending a message to Calliban?  If it was rejected, it means that someone using the same service cannot send an email to another member of the same service.

Thanks again for assisting with this.

Perhaps it might make sense for members of the forum to use email that might actually work.  My experience with the service to which you subscribe is limited to being blocked, but I've seen no evidence that it actually sends or receives anything.

That said, it is clear that the service is ** very ** popular because it still exists.  That means subscribers are paying for the immense costs associated with this level of security.

(th)

===
Today on Mars: 0038/19/02 Monday Days of the week OFFSET 0 with Earth.  (count from Mars to Earth )
Sol 503 Business Month 19 First month of Quarter 4 of Year 38
Today on Earth: 2026/04/13 Monday Earth Date) One day note: First day of Month 19: Start of Quarter 4
====*====*====

To see how this calendar works, we show the standard 28 day month at the bottom of this daily report.
There are 20 months of 28 Sols and 4 months of 27 Sols at the end of the four six-month quarters.
New Years Eve is extended to align the Business Calendar for Mars with the Astronomical calendar.
Business and Astronomical both start at zero (to the nanosecond) on New Year's Day.
This calendar has been in operation for two full Mars years (36 and 37). We are in Year 38

This calendar is NOT the Darian Calendar!

Per http://www-mars.lmd.jussieu.fr/mars/tim … _time.html also see: in-the-sky.org for opposition/perigee/aphelion

Martian Year: 38  Martian Astronomical Interval in 12 interval format: 9 <<== The Astronomical interval
Check Longitude: the interval will increment when longitude reaches 270 degrees

===
Solar Longitude: 262.2 Sol Number: 503  Change in degrees is +.7 Julian date is: J0038503
Solar Longitude: 261.5 Sol Number: 502  Change in degrees is +.6 Julian date is: J0038502
Solar Longitude: 260.9 Sol Number: 501  Change in degrees is +.6 Julian date is: J0038501
#>

Note that Solar Longitude measurement varies as a function of location in orbit.  Ls 0 is the moment when the Sun appears to transit from one hemisphere to the other.  Update from Mars.NASA.gov (The Sun crosses the equator of Mars (Vernal Equinox)). The transition itself is a function of the tilt of an object with respect to the Solar plane. Per squarewidget.com, Hipparchus created the celestial coordinate system we use today.

Note#2: https://theskylive.com/mars-tracker  This web site shows the astronomical position of Mars as seen from Earth
Todo: At next Aphelion/Perihelion record the Mars date as J00##### (and set Search term)
Perihelion occurred in 2026 at Ls 251 on Sol 486 - Earth Date 2026/03/27 Next: (estimated) 2028/05/15
Perihelion occurred in 2024 at Ls 251 on Sol 485 - Earth Date 2024/05/08 Next: (estimated) 2026/03/06 (actual) 2026/03/26
Perihelion occurred in 2022 at Ls 251 on Sol 485 - Earth Date 2022/06/21 Next: (actual) 2024/05/08
Aphelion Earth Dates: Next: 2027/03/04 Earlier: 2025/04/16, 2023/05/30, 2021/07/12, 2019/08/25, 2017/10/07, 2015/11/20
Aphelion occurred at--- Ls 071 on Sol 152. 
Aphelion occurred near Ls 070 on Sol 153 (per http://www.planetary.org)

Note#3: The computations below are dependent upon both the computations provided by the reference web site and by accuracy of recording of the time of observations.  The calculations use tenths of hours.  The Sun Distance needs to be captured at the moment the time increments to a given tenth.

Note on data below: The figure quoted after distance is a rate of progress along the orbital path [exact meaning to be determined]
Minus prefix means Mars is approaching the Sun.  Plus prefix means Mars is moving away from the Sun.
The figure computed to the right of "Difference" is the rate of change of the distance to Sun. Increasing to Aphelion/Decreasing to Perihelion.

Aphelion of Mars is due March 04, 2027 Sol 151-152 Note velocity of Mars was 22.0 km/s nearing Aphelion (21.97 km/s)
Perhelion of Mars is due May, 2028 Sol 251 Note velocity of Mars was 26.5 km/s nearing Perhelion 2026/03/26

===
Distance: Mars >> Sun per theskylive.com:   206,990,565 km [26.5 km/s] Difference is +38079 <= +1587 km/hour at 12.0 on 04/13 (time 12:00) (24.0 hours)
Distance: Mars >> Sun per theskylive.com:   206,952,486 km [26.5 km/s] Difference is +35053 <= +1498 km/hour at 12.0 on 04/12 (time 12:00) (24.0 hours)
Distance: Mars >> Sun per theskylive.com:   206,916,533 km [26.5 km/s] Difference is +33853 <= +1411 km/hour at 12.0 on 04/11 (time 12:00) (24.0 hours)
==*==*==*

Observation: The sky view is ** filled ** with objects and some have been recorded and given identification by humans or their robot assistants
And! ** All ** the location assignments are from the perspective of Earth.  The entire catalog needs to be adjusted when inter-stellar travel begins
The work that lies ahead for the astronomical community is daunting - there is work ahead for centuries
2022/01/19 - All current (existing) stellar catalogs are computed with reference to the Earth.  Another civilization would use it's planet as reference.
Perhaps a Milky Way frame of reference will become necessary at some point. The Earth is as good a Zero point as any, for humans.

=== Mars is in Regular movement as seen from Earth.
Next ahead:    Mars is still approaching 5 hours ahead of Psyche RA 00h 10m 21.7s Mars 00h 11m 03.2s
Mars is approaching 5 hours ahead of Psyche RA 00h 07m 39.6s Mars 00h 08m 22.1s
====*====*===

Zoom Out Capability As a general observation ... I've become increasingly interested in knowing what the larger view of the sky might be like.
The site: theskylive.com does a terrific job of matching the view from Earth towards Mars, against a background of actual astronomical plates.
I wish there were a way (or rather, I wish I ** knew ** about a way that may exist) to enlarge the view until the entire galaxy is in view (Zoom out)
Update 2022/12/08 TheSkyLive.com provides a large view of selected objects: Select [Major Bodies] Then select [Information] in the body of interest
Update 2022/12/08 Scroll down to (body) Position and Finder Charts. Field of view is 50x30 degrees.

Light travel in one second is (about) 300,000 kilometers. The distance covered in one minute is about 18,000,000 kilometers. Estimated light times:
1:18,2:36,3:54,4:72,5:90,6:108,7:126,8:144,9:162,10:180,11:198,12:216,13:234,14:252,15:270,16:288,17:306,18:324, 19:342,20:360,21:378,22:396

Light travel time today is between 18 and 19 minutes. Communications delay would be 36+ minutes round trip.

=== Time estimate will change below 324
Earth Distance in km: 2026/04/13 340,358,992 (decreasing)
Earth Distance in km: 2026/04/12 340,601,762 (decreasing)
Earth Distance in km: 2026/04/11 340,843,409 (decreasing)
<<#

Maximum Earth-Mars distance is estimated to be 401 million kilometers (both at apogee and opposite vs Sun) Minimum is about 56 million kilometers
Mars and Earth were in Opposition (Earth center)  in December of 2022.  The date coincided with a (very rare) occultation of Mars by the Moon.
Mars and Earth were in Conjunction (Sun center) in November of 2023.
Mars and Earth appear to have been as close as they will get in Year 36. 81,454,323 kilometers on J0036644 Time: 4.53 minutes - 9 minutes round trip

In his online interview with Dr. Zubrin at the 2020 Mars Conference, Elon Musk reminded the audience that communications with Mars will necessarily include an intermediary station to handle traffic when the Sun is between Mars and Earth.  Communications delays in that circumstance will increase due to the extra distance to be covered.  Mr. Musk indicated he expects such communication will be handled by laser.  Location would be optimum at poles of solar plane.

This web site offers an online model of the solar system: www.solarsystemscope.com  It requires Chrome 57, Firefox 52 or Safari 10.1. Viewed 2022/10/13: Opposition will occur some time in December of 2022.  Per earthsky.org, the date is December 8, 2022.

This web site offers an online orrery view of the Solar System: https://www.theplanetstoday.com/

===
Sol 503 is in Month 19 of a Proposed 24 month calendar. See Post 19 of Holidays topic for a summary.
Month  19 extends from Sol 502 through 529. <<== There are 28 days in Month 19. See post 82 of Holidays topic for current details.
Direct path to source: http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 57#p154257
Sol 503 is Monday in the Proposed Business calendar for Mars.   Sol 486 was a Skip Day on Mars. Next is near 523 of Year 38
##

The Next New Year's on Mars will occur when Solar Longitude reaches 360 degrees. Year 38 started November 12, 2024 on Earth
Per www.planetary.org Year 36 started 2021/02/07 on Earth. Mars Year 37 began 2022/12/27 on Earth.

Days of the Week Alignment:
Days of the week fall behind Earth due to the longer Sol, but they also change when Friday is omitted at the end of a Quarter
337 Earth days were observed to elapse in the 2020 weekday cycle. There were 7 week day transitions and 2 Quarter ends.
The next cycle began on the first Sol of the period of coincidence. The  alignment of weekdays interval is in the range: (310 - 337)
To find the first day of a period of coincidence: Set up: SearchTerm(colon) and (colon)Alignment and J0036* or J0037*
The most recent End-Of-Quarter change occurred: … The search specified above gave 11 pages of results.

For current weather on Mars see:

   ***https://mars.nasa.gov/insight/weather/***
   ***Insight's weather info has been suspended and now is directing to msl*** <<-- Insight's mission is over (2022)

https://mars.nasa.gov/msl/weather/

Per SpaceNut: Here is another web page by NASA containing the latest news releases

https://mars.nasa.gov/news/?page=0&per_ … ope=Latest

All forum members are invited to post significant events for this day.
Events of interest will be ON Mars, or relate to Mars. Examples are launches, landings, discoveries

Standard Month in Mars Business Calendar Copyright ® 2023 NewMars.com Mars Society
Su    Mo    Tu    We    Th    Fr    Sa
1        2      3      4      5      6      7
8        9    10     11    12    13    14
15    16    17     18    19    20    21
22    23    24     25    26    27    28

Recruiting text may be found at the bottom of this post:  http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 57#p154257
Copyright the Mars Society All Rights Reserved

Month 19 of 24: <<== First month of Quarter 4

These images show the bottom of the Artemis II heat shield shortly after it was hoisted out of the water by the US Navy recovery ship.

Close up of fixture to hold Orion to service module

Apollo 11 heat shield for comparison

For all ... there are likely to be many images and reports developed from the Artemis II flight.

This topic is a good place for heat shield images and reports.

We have a topic for Artemis II reports.  Search for topics with Artemis in the title.

(th)

This post is intended to report availability of an article about splitting of blue light to improve solar cell efficiency. This is still a laboratory project.

https://futurism.com/science-energy/res … ergy-cells

(th)

For SpaceNut re tumble and fixes to posts...

Sorry to hear of that misfortune!  Hoping you can get some rest!

***
Thanks for adding all that detail to the pictures you provided!

Best wishes for a restful night, and rapid recovery!

(th)

For SpaceNut ...

GW Johnson just wrote to say that the hex material you showed us looks about right be we have no idea what that was from!

Please see if you can find out where that came from.

The gun was NOT used for Artemis I or Artemis II, so what was it doing in the picture.

(th)