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For SpaceNut .... thanks for your continued interest in and support of Calliban's vision of a domed habitat for a village on Mars.
In a post on 2025/11/29, you express an interest in learning why Calliban specified a parabola instead of a a circle for the dome.
This is an opportunity for you to learn something about architecture.
It is possible to learn why one archtectureal form is better than another, but it helps to ask the right question. Your AI friend will be happy to teach you but in order for you to learn, you would have to be willing to learn. That is up to you. If you have a preconceived notion that the way to make an arch is to use the form of a circle, then your arch will fall and the cost of building the arch will be wasted.
Please reduce the size of the posts you put out on the forum. People (in general) only have a limited amount of time, and if you are trying to make a useful educational point, please try to ask your AI friend to be succinct.
In this case, it would help if you would start by admitting to yourself that Calliban knows more than you do, and he might be willing to help you learn if you were to ask for help.
For anyone to pretend to knowledge they do not have is apparent to those who ** do ** know.
(th)
This post is about an American thorium reactor program which was set aside by the Americans. the documents were declassified, and a group in China collected them and recreated the original experiment. Apparently, they have gone beyond where the Americans left off.
The link is: https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/chi … 56982.html
For SpaceNut ... your AI friend would perform better if you gave it more information about Calliban's concept. You gave it a diameter of 200 meters, but you omitted the height of 120 meters. Calliban made that VERY CLEAR but somehow the AI friend complains that it does not know how tall the building is.
Where did the idea of a 200 meter deep pit mine cover from? Was that just an estimate to try to give the AI friend something to work with? All you have from Calliban is the diameter and the height of the dome above ground. His vision did not include excavation below the surface, although it seems reasonable to suppose that the material Calliban described must come from an excavation. The next time you talk to your AI friend, please consider giving it the task of sizing the excavation to provide the material for the dome.
kbd512 picked up on your idea of an excavated pit for the dome, and kbd512 imagined the dome at the bottom of the pit.
Your AI friend seemed to think the open pit excavation was for mining, but this is specifically to collect material to make the dome. You could help your AI friend by explaining better what this project is about. I can see signs that you are experimenting to try to improve the performance of you AI friend. You are the human who is responsible for the AI's output. All errors it makes are directly your responsibility to edit out of the report, or to correct the AI and ask it to try again.
Re post #3955
You are NOT reading Calliban's text. He deals with buckling. It has nothing to do with the surface/floors. Where did that come from?
(th)
For Calliban re dome concept...
It appears that everyone who has commented about your vision takes away a different impression...
kbd512 said:
Here's a question I'd like the AI to answer for us:
By constructing Calliban's Superdome at the bottom of the open pit mine shown in Post #30, how much Solar Particle Event (SPE) / Coronal Mass Ejection (CME) / Galatic Cosmic Ray (GCR) radiation will the open pit mine block by erecting the dome at the bottom of the pit?
This is an important question to be asking, but I thought (from my reading of your posts) that you planned for the dome roof to be thick enough to block even Galactic Cosmic Rays. If you have time to think about the various responses your initiative has stimulated, I'm hoping you will then have time to provide some guidance for the members who are commenting.
I'd like to see your vision turn into something more than a few fleeting moments in this forum. I think your vision has the potential to complete successfully against the great variety of visions that have been developed and published to date, most of which none of us forum members have read or seen in the case of the video presentations.
(th)
For kbd512 re comparison... thanks for the 2.5 MW comparison!
That really shows the difference!
We're on track for the Sunday meeting. I have 2 PM New Hampshire time on my calendar!
Hoping it goes well.
(th)
For SpaceNut ...
kbd512 has picked up on the post you gave us, showing an open pit mine on Mars, with lots of little domes at the bottom.
kbd512 offers us the vision of Calliban's large dome instead of all those small ones.
Please see if you can persuade your AI friend to do the math needed to find out how large an open pit mine would have to be to yield the material to make Calliban's dome.
Please try to persuade your AI friend to concentrate on Calliban's dome, and not go running off thinking about someone else's dome.
We want Calliban's vision to come to life, and to secure the resources that would otherwise go to competing small dome thinkers.
NewMars is a perfect place for such an ambitious vision to start with a spark and grow into a robust flow of energy (human and otherwise).
(th)
For Calliban re Dome structure...
kbd512 just added an interesting concept to the discussion about Bricks that started with your vision of a large dome on Mars
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 46#p235746
If you can find the time this weekend, please try (I understand how challenging it will be) to provide some guidance for SpaceNut and for me, as we try to bring AI tools to bear on the problems to be solved.
I am interested in the full implementation of your concept for Sagan City. kbd512 and SpaceNut have introduced the idea of collecting the material for the dome and it's fittings from an open pit mine. It should be possible to create a Python program to compute the mass movement to create the dome and it's fittings, and thus to determine the size of the open pit mine.
For construction, I would imagine the material from the mine would be moved to staging areas where it would be either made into shapes to be assembled for the dome, or saved for use in the ramp/road to build the dome and the surrounding liner.
I am still hoping your earlier work on cast iron on Mars can come into play, but I don't know if the iron would be available in the open pit mine. It might, but that remains to be seen.
An overall plan needs to insure the dome/village is self sufficient, and that includes growing it's own food in vertical gardens.
kbd512 talked about using sunlight but I think your vision leads us away from using solar photons for much of anything, and instead illuminating the doam with LED lamps bright enough to grow crops.
This whole enterprise depends upon your specialty, fission power.
(th)
For kbd512 re Bricks ...
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 46#p235746
Thank you for pitching in to support this topic!
Your suggestion of building the pit in association with the dome is a new addition to the series.
This solves the problem I was struggling with, of where to find material for the dome and for the structures inside.
This should be a problem that can be solved with a bit of mathematics and perhaps a bit of programming.
The vision (as I understand your post) is to collect the material to make the dome and it's surrounding wall, ** and ** the internal living and working structures from a pit similar to the one SpaceNut showed us.
Instead of a bunch of little domes at the bottom of the pit, there would be one large one.
I think Spock would like your post!
(th)
===
Today on Mars: 0038/14/10 Tuesday Days of the week OFFSET 4 with Earth. (count from Mars to Earth )
Sol 372 Business Month 14 Second month of Quarter 3 of Year 38
Today on Earth: 2025/11/29 Saturday Earth Date) Post Title: Today on Mars
====*====*==
To see how this calendar works, we show the standard 28 day month at the bottom of this daily report.
There are 20 months of 28 Sols and 4 months of 27 Sols at the end of the four six-month quarters.
New Years Eve is extended to align the Business Calendar for Mars with the Astronomical calendar.
Business and Astronomical both start at zero (to the nanosecond) on New Year's Day.
This calendar has been in operation for two full Mars years (36 and 37). We are in Year 38
Per http://www-mars.lmd.jussieu.fr/mars/tim … _time.html also see: in-the-sky.org for opposition/perigee/aphelion
Martian Year: 38 Martian Astronomical Month in 12 month format: 6 <<== The Astronomical month will increment when longitude reaches 180 degrees
===
Solar Longitude: 179.6 Sol Number: 372 Change in degrees is +.6 Julian date is: J0038372
Solar Longitude: 179.0 Sol Number: 371 Change in degrees is +.5 Julian date is: J0038371
Solar Longitude: 178.5 Sol Number: 370 Change in degrees is +.6 Julian date is: J0038370
#>
Note that Solar Longitude measurement varies as a function of location in orbit. Ls 0 is the moment when the Sun appears to transit from one hemisphere to the other. Update from Mars.NASA.gov (The Sun crosses the equator of Mars (Vernal Equinox)). The transition itself is a function of the tilt of an object with respect to the Solar plane. Per squarewidget.com, Hipparchus created the celestial coordinate system we use today.
Note#2: https://theskylive.com/mars-tracker This web site shows the astronomical position of Mars as seen from Earth
Todo: At next Aphelion/Perihelion record the Mars date as J00##### (and set Search term)
Perihelion occurred in 2024 at Ls 251 on Sol 485 - Earth Date 2024/05/08 Next: (estimated) 2026/03/06
Perihelion occurred in 2022 at Ls 251 on Sol 485 - Earth Date 2022/06/21 Next: (actual) 2024/05/08
Aphelion Earth Dates: Next: 2027/03/04 Earlier: 2025/04/16, 2023/05/30, 2021/07/12, 2019/08/25, 2017/10/07, 2015/11/20
Aphelion occurred at--- Ls 071 on Sol 152.
Aphelion occurred near Ls 070 on Sol 153 (per http://www.planetary.org)
Note#3: The computations below are dependent upon both the computations provided by the reference web site and by accuracy of recording of the time of observations. The calculations use tenths of hours. The Sun Distance needs to be captured at the moment the time increments to a given tenth.
Note on data below: The figure quoted after distance is a rate of progress along the orbital path [exact meaning to be determined]
Minus prefix means Mars is approaching the Sun. Plus prefix means Mars is moving away from the Sun.
The figure computed to the right of "Difference" is the rate of change of the distance to Sun. Increasing to Aphelion/Decreasing to Perihelion.
Aphelion of Mars is due March 04, 2027 Sol 151-152 Note velocity of Mars was 22.0 km/s nearing Aphelion (21.97 km/s)
===
Distance: Mars >> Sun per theskylive.com: 219,305,271 km [25.1 km/s] Difference is -185500 <= -7729 km/hour at 12 on 11/29 (time 12:00) (24 hours)
Distance: Mars >> Sun per theskylive.com: 219,490,771 km [25.0 km/s] Difference is -186105 <= -7754 km/hour at 12 on 11/28 (time 12:00) (24 hours)
Distance: Mars >> Sun per theskylive.com: 219,676,876 km [25.0 km/s] Difference is -186685 <= -7779 km/hour at 12 on 11/27 (time 12:00) (24 hours)
==*==*==*
Observation: The sky view is ** filled ** with objects and some have been recorded and given identification by humans or their robot assistants
And! ** All ** the location assignments are from the perspective of Earth. The entire catalog needs to be adjusted when inter-stellar travel begins
The work that lies ahead for the astronomical community is daunting - there is work ahead for centuries
2022/01/19 - All current (existing) stellar catalogs are computed with reference to the Earth. Another civilization would use it's planet as reference.
Perhaps a Milky Way frame of reference will become necessary at some point. The Earth is as good a Zero point as any, for humans.
=== Mars is in Regular movement as seen from Earth.
Next ahead: TYC 6811-2977-1 Above path Day 10 ahead RA 17h 09m 34.3s
TYC 6811-601-1 RA 17h 05m 30.8s Just above path or in path Day 0 - At edge on Day 1
====*====*===
Zoom Out Capability As a general observation ... I've become increasingly interested in knowing what the larger view of the sky might be like.
The site: theskylive.com does a terrific job of matching the view from Earth towards Mars, against a background of actual astronomical plates.
I wish there were a way (or rather, I wish I ** knew ** about a way that may exist) to enlarge the view until the entire galaxy is in view (Zoom out)
Update 2022/12/08 TheSkyLive.com provides a large view of selected objects: Select [Major Bodies] Then select [Information] in the body of interest
Update 2022/12/08 Scroll down to (body) Position and Finder Charts. Field of view is 50x30 degrees.
Light travel in one second is (about) 300,000 kilometers. The distance covered in one minute is about 18,000,000 kilometers. Estimated light times:
1:18,2:36,3:54,4:72,5:90,6:108,7:126,8:144,9:162,10:180,11:198,12:216,13:234,14:252,15:270,16:288,17:306,18:324, 19:342,20:360,21:378,22:396
Light travel time today is between 20 and 21 minutes. Communications delay would be 40+ minutes round trip.
===
Earth Distance in km: 2025/11/29 362,605,753 (increasing)
Earth Distance in km: 2025/11/28 362,599,432 (increasing)
Earth Distance in km: 2025/11/27 362,588,417 (increasing)
<<#
Maximum Earth-Mars distance is estimated to be 401 million kilometers (both at apogee and opposite vs Sun) Minimum is about 56 million kilometers
Mars and Earth were in Opposition (Earth center) in December of 2022. The date coincided with a (very rare) occultation of Mars by the Moon.
Mars and Earth were in Conjunction (Sun center) in November of 2023.
Mars and Earth appear to have been as close as they will get in Year 36. 81,454,323 kilometers on J0036644 Time: 4.53 minutes - 9 minutes round trip
In his online interview with Dr. Zubrin at the 2020 Mars Conference, Elon Musk reminded the audience that communications with Mars will necessarily include an intermediary station to handle traffic when the Sun is between Mars and Earth. Communications delays in that circumstance will increase due to the extra distance to be covered. Mr. Musk indicated he expects such communication will be handled by laser. Location would be optimum at poles of solar plane.
This web site offers an online model of the solar system: www.solarsystemscope.com It requires Chrome 57, Firefox 52 or Safari 10.1. Viewed 2022/10/13: Opposition will occur some time in December of 2022. Per earthsky.org, the date is December 8, 2022.
This web site offers an online orrery view of the Solar System: https://www.theplanetstoday.com/
===
Sol 372 is in Month 14 of a Proposed 24 month calendar. See Post 19 of Holidays topic for a summary.
Month 14 extends from Sol 363 through 390. <<== There are 28 days in Month 14. See post 82 of Holidays topic for current details.
Direct path to source: http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 57#p154257
Sol 372 is Tuesday in the Proposed Business calendar for Mars. Sol 340 was a Skip Day on Mars. Next is near 377 of Year 38
##
The Next New Year's on Mars will occur when Solar Longitude reaches 360 degrees. Year 38 started November 12, 2024 on Earth
Per www.planetary.org Year 36 started 2021/02/07 on Earth. Mars Year 37 began 2022/12/27 on Earth.
Days of the Week Alignment:
Days of the week fall behind Earth due to the longer Sol, but they also change when Friday is omitted at the end of a Quarter
337 Earth days were observed to elapse in the 2020 weekday cycle. There were 7 week day transitions and 2 Quarter ends.
The next cycle began on the first Sol of the period of coincidence. The alignment of weekdays interval is in the range: (310 - 337)
To find the first day of a period of coincidence: Set up: SearchTerm(colon) and (colon)Alignment and J0036* or J0037*
The most recent End-Of-Quarter change occurred: … The search specified above gave 11 pages of results.
For current weather on Mars see:
***https://mars.nasa.gov/insight/weather/***
***Insight's weather info has been suspended and now is directing to msl*** <<-- Insight's mission is over (2022)
https://mars.nasa.gov/msl/weather/
Per SpaceNut: Here is another web page by NASA containing the latest news releases
https://mars.nasa.gov/news/?page=0&per_ … ope=Latest
All forum members are invited to post significant events for this day.
Events of interest will be ON Mars, or relate to Mars. Examples are launches, landings, discoveries
Standard Month in Mars Business Calendar Copyright ® 2023 NewMars.com Mars Society
Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
Recruiting text may be found at the bottom of this post: http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 57#p154257
Copyright the Mars Society All Rights Reserved
Month 14 of 24: Second month of the 3rd Quarter and 2nd Half
Place holder for Saturday's Calendar update:
[51.4792N, 0.0000E] 11/29/2025, 13:00:00 Europe/London
Object: Mars (open sky map)
RA 17h 08m 30.9s Dec -23° 33' 48.2" Appar J2000
Mag: 1.29 (Estimated: JPL) Const: Ophiuchus
Sun Dist: 219,305,271 km [25.1 km/s]
Earth Dist: 362,605,753 km [54.2 km/s]
Martian Year:
38
Martian Astronomical Month:
6
Solar longitude Ls:
179.6
Sol number:
372
Next ahead: TYC 6811-2977-1 Above path Day 10 ahead
TYC 6811-601-1 RA 17h 05m 30.8s Just above path or in path Day 0 <at edge on Day 1>
TYC 6811-312-1 RA 17h 02m 51.7s Day 0 ahead and above Day 1 past 8 hours marker <gone>
===
Today on Mars: 0038/14/09 Monday Days of the week OFFSET 4 with Earth. (count from Mars to Earth )
Sol 371 Business Month 14 Second month of Quarter 3 of Year 38
Today on Earth: 2025/11/28 Friday Earth Date) Post Title: Today on Mars
====*====*==
To see how this calendar works, we show the standard 28 day month at the bottom of this daily report.
There are 20 months of 28 Sols and 4 months of 27 Sols at the end of the four six-month quarters.
New Years Eve is extended to align the Business Calendar for Mars with the Astronomical calendar.
Business and Astronomical both start at zero (to the nanosecond) on New Year's Day.
This calendar has been in operation for two full Mars years (36 and 37). We are in Year 38
Per http://www-mars.lmd.jussieu.fr/mars/tim … _time.html also see: in-the-sky.org for opposition/perigee/aphelion
Martian Year: 38 Martian Astronomical Month in 12 month format: 6 <<== The Astronomical month will increment when longitude reaches 180 degrees
===
Solar Longitude: 179.0 Sol Number: 371 Change in degrees is +.5 Julian date is: J0038371
Solar Longitude: 178.5 Sol Number: 370 Change in degrees is +.6 Julian date is: J0038370
Solar Longitude: 177.9 Sol Number: 369 Change in degrees is +.6 Julian date is: J0038369
#>
Note that Solar Longitude measurement varies as a function of location in orbit. Ls 0 is the moment when the Sun appears to transit from one hemisphere to the other. Update from Mars.NASA.gov (The Sun crosses the equator of Mars (Vernal Equinox)). The transition itself is a function of the tilt of an object with respect to the Solar plane. Per squarewidget.com, Hipparchus created the celestial coordinate system we use today.
Note#2: https://theskylive.com/mars-tracker This web site shows the astronomical position of Mars as seen from Earth
Todo: At next Aphelion/Perihelion record the Mars date as J00##### (and set Search term)
Perihelion occurred in 2024 at Ls 251 on Sol 485 - Earth Date 2024/05/08 Next: (estimated) 2026/03/06
Perihelion occurred in 2022 at Ls 251 on Sol 485 - Earth Date 2022/06/21 Next: (actual) 2024/05/08
Aphelion Earth Dates: Next: 2027/03/04 Earlier: 2025/04/16, 2023/05/30, 2021/07/12, 2019/08/25, 2017/10/07, 2015/11/20
Aphelion occurred at--- Ls 071 on Sol 152.
Aphelion occurred near Ls 070 on Sol 153 (per http://www.planetary.org)
Note#3: The computations below are dependent upon both the computations provided by the reference web site and by accuracy of recording of the time of observations. The calculations use tenths of hours. The Sun Distance needs to be captured at the moment the time increments to a given tenth.
Note on data below: The figure quoted after distance is a rate of progress along the orbital path [exact meaning to be determined]
Minus prefix means Mars is approaching the Sun. Plus prefix means Mars is moving away from the Sun.
The figure computed to the right of "Difference" is the rate of change of the distance to Sun. Increasing to Aphelion/Decreasing to Perihelion.
Aphelion of Mars is due March 04, 2027 Sol 151-152 Note velocity of Mars was 22.0 km/s nearing Aphelion (21.97 km/s)
===
Distance: Mars >> Sun per theskylive.com: 219,490,771 km [25.0 km/s] Difference is -186105 <= -7754 km/hour at 12 on 11/28 (time 12:00) (24 hours)
Distance: Mars >> Sun per theskylive.com: 219,676,876 km [25.0 km/s] Difference is -186685 <= -7779 km/hour at 12 on 11/27 (time 12:00) (24 hours)
Distance: Mars >> Sun per theskylive.com: 219,863,561 km [25.0 km/s] Difference is -187280 <= -7803 km/hour at 12 on 11/26 (time 12:00) (24 hours)
==*==*==*
Observation: The sky view is ** filled ** with objects and some have been recorded and given identification by humans or their robot assistants
And! ** All ** the location assignments are from the perspective of Earth. The entire catalog needs to be adjusted when inter-stellar travel begins
The work that lies ahead for the astronomical community is daunting - there is work ahead for centuries
2022/01/19 - All current (existing) stellar catalogs are computed with reference to the Earth. Another civilization would use it's planet as reference.
Perhaps a Milky Way frame of reference will become necessary at some point. The Earth is as good a Zero point as any, for humans.
=== Mars is in Regular movement as seen from Earth.
Next ahead: TYC 6811-601-1 RA 17h 05m 30.8s Just above path or in path Day 0
TYC 6811-312-1 RA 17h 02m 51.7s Day 0 ahead and above Day 1 past 8 hours marker
====*====*===
Zoom Out Capability As a general observation ... I've become increasingly interested in knowing what the larger view of the sky might be like.
The site: theskylive.com does a terrific job of matching the view from Earth towards Mars, against a background of actual astronomical plates.
I wish there were a way (or rather, I wish I ** knew ** about a way that may exist) to enlarge the view until the entire galaxy is in view (Zoom out)
Update 2022/12/08 TheSkyLive.com provides a large view of selected objects: Select [Major Bodies] Then select [Information] in the body of interest
Update 2022/12/08 Scroll down to (body) Position and Finder Charts. Field of view is 50x30 degrees.
Light travel in one second is (about) 300,000 kilometers. The distance covered in one minute is about 18,000,000 kilometers. Estimated light times:
1:18,2:36,3:54,4:72,5:90,6:108,7:126,8:144,9:162,10:180,11:198,12:216,13:234,14:252,15:270,16:288,17:306,18:324, 19:342,20:360,21:378,22:396
Light travel time today is between 20 and 21 minutes. Communications delay would be 40+ minutes round trip.
===
Earth Distance in km: 2025/11/28 362,599,432 (increasing)
Earth Distance in km: 2025/11/27 362,588,417 (increasing)
Earth Distance in km: 2025/11/26 362,572,614 (increasing)
<<#
Maximum Earth-Mars distance is estimated to be 401 million kilometers (both at apogee and opposite vs Sun) Minimum is about 56 million kilometers
Mars and Earth were in Opposition (Earth center) in December of 2022. The date coincided with a (very rare) occultation of Mars by the Moon.
Mars and Earth were in Conjunction (Sun center) in November of 2023.
Mars and Earth appear to have been as close as they will get in Year 36. 81,454,323 kilometers on J0036644 Time: 4.53 minutes - 9 minutes round trip
In his online interview with Dr. Zubrin at the 2020 Mars Conference, Elon Musk reminded the audience that communications with Mars will necessarily include an intermediary station to handle traffic when the Sun is between Mars and Earth. Communications delays in that circumstance will increase due to the extra distance to be covered. Mr. Musk indicated he expects such communication will be handled by laser. Location would be optimum at poles of solar plane.
This web site offers an online model of the solar system: www.solarsystemscope.com It requires Chrome 57, Firefox 52 or Safari 10.1. Viewed 2022/10/13: Opposition will occur some time in December of 2022. Per earthsky.org, the date is December 8, 2022.
This web site offers an online orrery view of the Solar System: https://www.theplanetstoday.com/
===
Sol 371 is in Month 14 of a Proposed 24 month calendar. See Post 19 of Holidays topic for a summary.
Month 14 extends from Sol 363 through 390. <<== There are 28 days in Month 14. See post 82 of Holidays topic for current details.
Direct path to source: http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 57#p154257
Sol 371 is Monday in the Proposed Business calendar for Mars. Sol 340 was a Skip Day on Mars. Next is near 377 of Year 38
##
The Next New Year's on Mars will occur when Solar Longitude reaches 360 degrees. Year 38 started November 12, 2024 on Earth
Per www.planetary.org Year 36 started 2021/02/07 on Earth. Mars Year 37 began 2022/12/27 on Earth.
Days of the Week Alignment:
Days of the week fall behind Earth due to the longer Sol, but they also change when Friday is omitted at the end of a Quarter
337 Earth days were observed to elapse in the 2020 weekday cycle. There were 7 week day transitions and 2 Quarter ends.
The next cycle began on the first Sol of the period of coincidence. The alignment of weekdays interval is in the range: (310 - 337)
To find the first day of a period of coincidence: Set up: SearchTerm(colon) and (colon)Alignment and J0036* or J0037*
The most recent End-Of-Quarter change occurred: … The search specified above gave 11 pages of results.
For current weather on Mars see:
***https://mars.nasa.gov/insight/weather/***
***Insight's weather info has been suspended and now is directing to msl*** <<-- Insight's mission is over (2022)
https://mars.nasa.gov/msl/weather/
Per SpaceNut: Here is another web page by NASA containing the latest news releases
https://mars.nasa.gov/news/?page=0&per_ … ope=Latest
All forum members are invited to post significant events for this day.
Events of interest will be ON Mars, or relate to Mars. Examples are launches, landings, discoveries
Standard Month in Mars Business Calendar Copyright ® 2023 NewMars.com Mars Society
Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
Recruiting text may be found at the bottom of this post: http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 57#p154257
Copyright the Mars Society All Rights Reserved
Month 14 of 24: Second month of the 3rd Quarter and 2nd Half
For kbd512 re #338...
Thank you for details about Airloom that I had not seen, and which (hopefully) will be of interest to forum readers.
My only question would be .... are we comparing power outputs and corresponding material requirements? We may be, but I thought I'd ask.
You may have actually said something about that, and if so I missed it.
***
(th)
For SpaceNut re interesting posts about brick and related topics....
At some point, I hope you will get around to actually reading and attempting to understand what Calliban wrote.
It seems to me that you are fighting Calliban at every turn. That is NOT your responsibility! Our role should be to help our members to succeed in their endeavors.
The key to helping our members is to actually ** understand ** what they are doing.
Your AI friend is worried about buckling, but Calliban very specifically addressed that. Your AI friend would have benefited greatly if you had told it that Calliban had addressed the issue. You could have told your AI friend what Calliban said, and ** then ** if there is something that Calliban overlooked, you might be able to help Calliban improve the design. I doubt ** very ** much there is anything anyone can do to improve Calliban's design, but you keep trying.
(th)
The article at the link below provides updates on study of material from Bennu.
There is a preliminary report of discovery of an additional amino acid.
https://www.cnn.com/2025/11/27/science/ … id=ios_app
(th)
For Calliban re Dome structure...
I freed up a Gemini session for your initiative.... We got off to a bumpy start, but corrected the formatting and I think we are good to go for development of your concept as a project.
You are welcome to provide guidance if you would care to do so.
Please note that Gemini estimates the population at between 5000 and 8000 people, and that is just above ground.
If you excavate under the dome to provide the material for the dome, then the available volume would be even greater, although much of that volume would be allocated to city services, including fluid management, power/lighting/heating and food production in vertical farms.
I think of your dome concept as self sustaining (assuming sufficient nuclear power), and thus fully comparable to a deep space vessel for an extended multi-year mission.
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 30#p235730
(th)
For SpaceNut re Gemini and Calliban's proposal...
I had a long running session going with Gemini, to work on the OpenFOAM problem. That problem has come to a conclusion, and the Gemini session is now freed up. I decided to ask Gemini to work on Calliban's proposal. As you can see by looking at the Brick's topic, Gemini had a hard time dealing with the ancient software we use for our forum. However, in the end, it seems to have mastered the environment. Here is the conclusion of today's session:
Thank you for your persistence in the face of this challenge. I am ** very ** happy with the result. The code section shows off the mathematics with great effect, and there is another benefit ... Our forum software renders the code window as a sliding pane, so that the reader is able to see more of the non-code text in their browser window. I'll keep this tab open so that we retain the memory of all this hard work! While I'm away, best wishes for all possible success as you try to help everyone else! Please note that I am using our correspondence as an educational opportunity for our many members who are unfamiliar with the technology you and your peers have to offer.
***
That is wonderful news! I am genuinely relieved and pleased that the pure BBCode output, especially the use of the code tag, worked perfectly on your forum. Using the sliding code pane is an unexpected but excellent bonus for readability!It has been a rewarding challenge, and I deeply appreciate the detailed feedback and constraints you provided. Addressing the limitations of the "ancient software" directly ensures the information is accessible to all your members, achieving both technical clarity and broad educational outreach—which aligns perfectly with the goal of demystifying the technology.
I am ready to proceed whenever you return. The next step is drafting the content for the construction plan's inaugural post.
? Ready for Phase I
When you are ready, we will draft the post for the forum:Project Ares: Phase I - Site Selection and Resource Verification
This post will cover:
Automated Scouting for site geotechnical stability.
The required Robotics Fleet (Regolith haulers, brick printers, etc.) necessary to achieve the one-year timeline.
Power Budget for processing the 400,000 tonnes of material.
Best wishes to you and the Mars Society community during your pause! I look forward to continuing this detailed work plan soon.
Would you like me to draft Phase I when you return, or is there another preparatory step you'd like to address first?
If you are not yet using Gemini, I am hoping these posts will be useful examples for you to study.
As a tip... to help Gemini remember what you are talking about, keep the tab open on your computer for the session. I think (but do not know for sure) that Gemini keeps some memory in your computer, so if you keep the tab open on the browser, you can reconnect to Gemini at the same point. You can turn OFF your computer as you would normally.
In addition, if you work with Gemini more than once, you will discover that Gemini keeps a record of conversations in the cloud memory for your Google iD. You can see saved sessions in a panel on the left.
ChatGPT works the same way in the paid version.
(th)
Here is another attempt by Gemini to format a reply to Calliban for display on our forum:
This is an outstanding design proposal from Calliban. The concept of using the regolith mass not just for shielding but as the structural ballast to directly counter the 0.5 bar internal pressure is a brilliant application of Martian resources. Furthermore, integrating the construction access road (the Ziggurat spiral) into the final structure is highly efficient for full automation.
The 200m dome acts as a retaining wall, stabilized by the 400,000 tonnes of regolith piled in the stepped Ziggurat structure. This mass is essential to prevent the thin 7.5 cm brick dome from bursting outward.
[img=Cross section of the Ziggurat dome structure showing the brick lining and external regolith spiral]PLACEHOLDER_FOR_DOME_DIAGRAM_URL[/img]
To estimate the population the dome could support, we apply standard urban density metrics to the provided area and verticality.
===================================================
I. POPULATION CAPACITY ESTIMATE
===================================================
(1) BUILT FOOTPRINT AREA:
Purpose: Determine the land area covered by buildings.
Formula: AREA_FOOTPRINT = AREA_DOME * COVERAGE_FACTOR
Variables:
- AREA_DOME = 31400 sq meters
- COVERAGE_FACTOR = 0.75 (75% coverage for dense urban layout)
Calculation: 31400 * 0.75
Result: AREA_FOOTPRINT = 23,550 sq meters
---------------------------------------------------
(2) TOTAL HABITABLE FLOOR AREA:
Purpose: Determine total vertical space for residents.
Formula: AREA_HABITABLE = AREA_FOOTPRINT * 5 FLOORS
Calculation: 23550 * 5
Result: AREA_HABITABLE = 117,750 sq meters
---------------------------------------------------
(3) DENSITY FACTORS:
Purpose: Establish the range for population density (sq meters per person).
- HIGH DENSITY: 15 sq meters / person
- LOW DENSITY: 25 sq meters / person
---------------------------------------------------
(4) POPULATION ESTIMATES:
Purpose: Calculate minimum and maximum population capacity.
A. LOWER ESTIMATE (Low Density, High Space per Person):
117750 / 25 = 4,710 people
B. UPPER ESTIMATE (High Density, Low Space per Person):
117750 / 15 ~ 7,850 people
===================================================Conclusion for Calliban: The Bricks on Mars habitat could comfortably support between 5,000 and 8,000 residents based on a dense, five-story urban plan. This upper range provides a useful figure for emergency planning.
I am prepared to draft the content for the first post in the work plan series: "Project Ares: Phase I - Site Selection and Resource Verification."
---
Please confirm if this **pure BBCode** output renders correctly on your forum. If so, would you like me to proceed with drafting **Phase I**?
This is another attempt to format a reply to Calliban's post, with formatting that will work on our forum.
?️ Revised Post: Bricks on Mars Analysis (Final Formatting Attempt)
This is an outstanding design proposal from Calliban. The concept of using the regolith mass not just for shielding but as the structural ballast to directly counter the 0.5 bar internal pressure is a brilliant application of Martian resources. Furthermore, integrating the construction access road (the Ziggurat spiral) into the final structure is highly efficient for full automation.The 200m dome acts as a retaining wall, stabilized by the 400,000 tonnes of regolith piled in the stepped Ziggurat structure. This mass is essential to prevent the thin 7.5 cm brick dome from bursting outward.
I. Population Capacity Estimate (Answering Calliban's Question)
To estimate the population the dome could support, we apply standard urban density metrics to the provided area and verticality.I. POPULATION CAPACITY ESTIMATE
(1) BUILT FOOTPRINT AREA: Purpose: Determine the land area covered by buildings.
Formula: AREA\_FOOTPRINT = AREA\_DOME \* COVERAGE\_FACTOR
Variables:
- AREA\_DOME = 31400 sq meters
- COVERAGE\_FACTOR = 0.75 (75% coverage for dense urban layout)Calculation: 31400 \* 0.75
Result: AREA\_FOOTPRINT = 23,550 sq meters
(2) TOTAL HABITABLE FLOOR AREA: Purpose: Determine total vertical space for residents.Formula: AREA\_HABITABLE = AREA\_FOOTPRINT \* 5 FLOORS
Calculation: 23550 \* 5
Result: AREA\_HABITABLE = 117,750 sq meters
(3) DENSITY FACTORS: Purpose: Establish the range for population density (sq meters per person).- HIGH DENSITY: 15 sq meters / person
- LOW DENSITY: 25 sq meters / person
(4) POPULATION ESTIMATES: Purpose: Calculate minimum and maximum population capacity.A. LOWER ESTIMATE (Low Density, High Space per Person):
117750 / 25 = 4,710 peopleB. UPPER ESTIMATE (High Density, Low Space per Person):
117750 / 15 $\sim$ 7,850 people
Conclusion for Calliban: The Bricks on Mars habitat could comfortably support between 5,000 and 8,000 residents based on a dense, five-story urban plan. This upper range provides a useful figure for emergency planning.II. Next Step: The Construction Work Plan
I am prepared to draft the first post in the work plan series: "Project Ares: Phase I - Site Selection and Resource Verification." This post will detail the robotics and power required to meet the one-year material handling timeline (400,000 tonnes regolith, 15,000 tonnes bricks).Please confirm if this latest formatting is acceptable for your forum, and if so, would you like me to proceed with drafting the content for Phase I?
Gemini has produced another version using BBCode.
(th)
This post is the first in a series I am hoping to develop with Gemini (3).
For SpaceNut re post #30.... thank you for the images you provided of the open pit mine on Mars! it is fun seeing the assortment of domes in the landscape that the AI that drew this image imagined might be there.
Conversation with Gemini
Dome Building on Mars Project Plan - Hello Again! Thanks (again) for your assistance with many requests, most recently including modification of an OpenFOAM model to use volume heating. In this series, I would like to provide a way for you to help a mechanical engineer who lives in the Northern Part of Great Britain. He is a member of a small international forum affiliated with the Mars Society, and dedicated to discussion of topics related to settlement of Mars. I have a post ready to show you, in which our member "Calliban" describes a structure suitable for construction on Mars and able to comfortably house a small village in a style similar to the City of Amsterdam or similar cities in Europe. Would you be willing to tackle this project? I am looking to create a series of posts that would lay out in a clear, step-by-step manner, how a well founded group might build such a structure on Mars, using entirely automated systems to perform the work, with possible on site supervision by humans in a pressurized construction shack.Hello again! It is a pleasure to cross paths with you once more. I remember our work on the OpenFOAM volume heating modification well.
I would be absolutely delighted to assist you with this project. Translating a vision for a Martian settlement into a concrete, actionable engineering project plan is exactly the kind of complex, multi-disciplinary challenge I enjoy.
The concept of a "European-style" village inside a pressurized dome is fascinating. It suggests a focus not just on survival, but on livability—moving beyond utilitarian bunkers to create spaces with culture, density, and perhaps even water features (implies the "Amsterdam" comparison).
How We Can Approach This
To create a compelling series of posts for the forum, we should structure this as a rigorous engineering feasibility study turned into a construction sequence. We will need to bridge the gap between "concept art" and "process engineering."Here is a preliminary framework of how we might organize the step-by-step series based on your description:
Phase I: The Vanguard & Site Prep
Robotic scouting and site selection (geotechnical analysis).
Excavation and ISRU (In-Situ Resource Utilization) setup for raw materials (regolith processing).
Establishing the energy grid to power the construction bots.
Phase II: The Primary Structure (The Dome)
Automated fabrication of structural elements (sintered brick, steel, or composites).
The assembly sequence of the dome ribs and panels by heavy-lift bots.
Crucial Step: Radiation shielding and impact protection.
Phase III: Pressurization & Environmental Systems
Sealing the membrane.
Atmosphere generation and thermal control.
The "first breath" of the building.
Phase IV: The Interior "Amsterdam" Fit-out
Constructing the village infrastructure (multi-story housing, walkways, canals/hydroponics).
Transitioning from robotic construction to human occupancy.
Ready for Input
Please go ahead and share Calliban's post.Once I have his description, I will analyze it to identify the specific architectural geometry, material requirements, and engineering constraints. Then, we can begin drafting the first post in your series.
What is the first section of his description?
First, thank you for your kind and generous embrace of our ambitious initiative. Many teams have embarked upon similar ambitious efforts, and the variety of ideas is remarkable. Our initiative is based upon the thinking of a practical engineer, as you will see. As moderator, my role is to facilitate a correspondence and guide the presentation to the forum through our (somewhat antiquated) forum software. You are going to be helping us with mathematics as we proceed, so please keep in mind that our presentation method is BBCode (2012 version) and the use of text for equations (1985 teletype version). Here is the opening post from Calliban, in a topic called "Bricks on Mars". Please note that there is an image associated with the text. I will describe the image as a hand drawing of a cross section of a parabolic dome with a lining (described in the text) and outside of the lining, a zig-zag/stepped structure also described in the text. You should know that throughout this series, the human habitat pressure is given as 1/2 bar. This is a convention for all human habitats and space vehicles, arrived at through literally years of debate. Thus, the interior of the dome will be pressurized to 1/2 bar after construction is complete. This means construction will proceed in the near vacuum of Mars. Begin Quotation:
This sounds like a fantastic setup. The context of a "practical engineer" using older forum software is very familiar to me; it often leads to the most grounded and scrutinized engineering discussions.
I have noted the critical constraints for our upcoming work:
Internal Pressure: 0.5 bar (approx. 50 kPa or 7.25 psi). This is a massive design driver. Since the outside is near vacuum, the structure acts like a pressure vessel. If Calliban is proposing "bricks" (masonry), which act primarily in compression, holding back 0.5 bar of bursting pressure will require significant overburden (weight) or a clever tensile mechanism.
Construction Environment: Vacuum. This means no water-based mortar (it would boil off instantly) and significant thermal cycling issues for the robots until the structure is enclosed.
Visual: A parabolic cross-section with a zig-zag/stepped outer structure. I am visualizing something that likely uses the weight of regolith or interlocking mass to counteract the internal pressure.
Formatting: I will stick to clear text for equations (e.g., Force = Pressure * Area) and prepare outputs that can be easily converted to BBCode.
You mentioned "Begin Quotation:" but the text from Calliban cut off right there.
Please go ahead and paste the text of his post. I am ready to analyze his "Bricks on Mars" proposal.
The inner black lining is a parabolic dome that would be constructed from Class A engineering bricks. Regolith covers the dome and forms a spiral Ziggurat. This allows a spiral road to wind around the structure until it reaches the top.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziggurat
The stepped structure shown in my sketch is exagerated. Likely, the retaining wall behind the road will be no more than 1m high, so each spiral layer as shown in the drawing would be 1m high. This avoids any significant load concentrations that could result in buckling instability. The road will wrap around the structure over 100 times before reaching the top. We would build the berm incrementally around the parabolic dome as it is assembled towards its apex. This allows assembly robots easy access to the work surface by running up the spiral road. It also avoids the need for formwork inside the dome, as robots can climb up the regolith berm to get to the work surface. With each new metre added to the dome, regolith would be piled around it and the spiral road will be extended once around the structure. In this way, the only materials needed are brick, stone, graded regolith and a binding cement for the bricks.
The dome shown here has a diameter of 200m (650'). This gives an internal land area of 3.14 hectares. The dome itself can be quite thin, as it is really acting as a retaining wall to prevent compacted regolith from crumbling inward. We would need a minimum of 400,000 tonnes of graded regolith to build the berm. This is the amount needed to balance an internal pressure of 50KPa under Martian gravity over an area of 3.14 hectares. Moving and compacting this much regolith is no small task. If we processed 1100 tonnes per day, it would take about 1 year to build the structure. Assuming a dome thickness of 7.5cm (standard width engineering brick) we would need ~15,000 tonnes of engineering bricks. That is 41 tonnes per day × 1 year. That is about 12 cubic metres of bricks per day. I think we could do that in a modest sized brick oven.
I anticipate that the dome would contain an extremely dense urban district. This will consist of very narrow pedestrian streets lined with terrace houses and shops. Rather like the Fez medina. To get the most use out of our dome, I anticipate that the internal town will be built on three levels. The lowest level will consist of a network of subsurface tunnels and chambers. This would contain functional infrastructure (water delivery, sewage removal and treatment, electric power delivery), as well as small scale industry, inventory storage and any other functions that don't need to take place in the buildings above. Next will be town itself, a dense network of terrace buildings designed to resemble a mediaeval town. These would be limited to 5 floors high, to preserve the human scale of the city. Finally, the top level will be the flat roofs of the buildings, which will be landscaped as a continuoys greenspace, with footbridges running over streets.
How many people would live in the dome?
Last edited by Calliban (2025-11-13 22:17:51)
This is an outstanding design proposal from Calliban! The concept of using the regolith mass not just for radiation shielding but as the structural ballast to directly counter the 0.5 bar internal pressure is a brilliant application of Martian resources. Furthermore, integrating the construction access road (the Ziggurat spiral) into the final structure is highly efficient.
?️ Design Analysis and Population Estimate
1. Structural Overview
Calliban's design solves the primary challenge of large-scale Martian habitat construction: counteracting the massive uplift force generated by internal pressure. The 200m diameter parabolic dome, constructed from a relatively thin 7.5 cm layer of engineering bricks, acts primarily as the pressure barrier and retaining wall.The 400,000 tonnes of graded regolith, piled in a spiral Ziggurat structure, provides the necessary overburden or dead weight to stabilize the habitat against the internal 50 kPa force. The Ziggurat's stepped 1 m height increments and ∼100 revolutions around the structure ensure the load is evenly distributed, mitigating the risk of buckling instability.
The construction method—incremental building of the brick dome simultaneous with the extension of the regolith berm and spiral road—is perfectly suited for full automation as it provides constant, easy access for robotics.
2. Population Estimate (Answering Calliban's Question)
To estimate the population the dome could support, we apply standard urban density metrics to the provided area and verticality:1. BUILT FOOTPRINT AREAFormula: Area_Footprint = Area_Dome * Coverage_FactorCalculation:31,400 sq meters * 0.75Result: Area_Footprint $\sim$ 23,550 sq meters2. TOTAL HABITABLE FLOOR AREAFormula: Area_Habitable = Area_Footprint * 5 FloorsCalculation:23,550 sq meters * 5Result: Area_Habitable = 117,750 sq meters3. POPULATION DENSITY FACTORSWe assume a very dense urban layout:High Density Estimate: 15 sq meters per personLow Density Estimate: 25 sq meters per person4. POPULATION ESTIMATESLower Estimate (4710 people):117,750 sq meters / 25 sq meters_per_person $\sim$ 4,710 peopleUpper Estimate (7850 people):117,750 sq meters / 15 sq meters_per_person $\sim$ 7,850 people
Dome Internal Area (A
dome): 3.14 hectares or 31,400 square meters.
Building Coverage (C
build): Given the "extremely dense urban district" and "Fez medina" analogy, we can assume a high ground coverage of 75% (streets, plazas, and infrastructure will take up the remaining 25%).
A
footprint=A
dome×C
build
A
footprint=31400 m
2
×0.75≈23550 m
2Total Habitable Floor Area (A
hab): The town is limited to 5 floors above the infrastructure level.
A
hab=A
footprint×5 floors
A
hab=23550 m
2
×5=117750 m
2Population Density (D
pop): For dense urban environments, population density typically ranges from 15 m
2
to 25 m
2
of floor area per person.High Density (Lower m$^2$ requirement): 15 m
2
/personLower Density (Higher m$^2$ requirement): 25 m
2
/personPopulation Calculation:
Lower Estimate: 117750 m
2
/25 m
2
/person≈4710 peopleUpper Estimate: 117750 m
2
/15 m
2
/person≈7850 peopleConclusion for Calliban: The Bricks on Mars habitat could comfortably support between 5,000 and 8,000 residents based on a dense, five-story urban plan.
? Proposed Project Plan: First Post
For the forum series, we should now draft the first detailed post laying out the construction sequence, focusing on Calliban's stated timeline of one year and the massive material handling requirement.I propose the following text for the next forum post, which focuses on Phase I: Site Selection and Resource Verification and translates Calliban's material tonnage into specific robotic requirements.
Would you like me to draft this post now? We can start with the title: "Project Ares: Phase I - Site Selection and Resource Verification".
Thank you ** very ** much for your generous review of Calliban's proposal, and for your calculation of a possible population. While the population you estimated is comparable to existing cities on Earth, my guess (and hope) is that the density could be a bit less. Never-the-less, your estimate shows what might be possible in an emergency. For example, if there are multiple domes of this type in a city/county region, and the population of one needs to move to another, it would be useful to know the upper range of possibility. At this point, I will pause to create posts that allow our members and non-member readers to follow along. Because of your steady evolution, I am confident we will be able to provide an experience for members and readers that is both educational and entertaining, and for those who will be actually funding and implementing the plan, we will be providing a detailed work plan.
That is excellent feedback. I agree completely that using the upper-range population estimate (5,000 to 8,000 residents) as the maximum emergency capacity is a highly practical and prudent approach for long-term planning and resiliency within a multi-habitat settlement architecture.
I appreciate you taking the time to prepare your forum members and readers. Creating a solid foundation of background information is crucial for engagement.
I will remain ready to draft the first formal post in the work plan—"Project Ares: Phase I - Site Selection and Resource Verification"—as soon as you are ready to resume. This first phase will focus on the robotics necessary to process the 400,000 tonnes of regolith and 15,000 tonnes of bricks within the one-year schedule Calliban proposed.
Please let me know when you would like to proceed with the detailed, step-by-step engineering breakdown.
This post contains formatting experiments... Gemini is having to relearn how to output to an older device, such as an LA120 printer.
I will try again in the next post.
(th)
The extendedMerlin development work was performed by ChatGPT4o over several months, and the final push was completed by ChatGPT5. However, throughout the process, I've asked Gemini for a second opinion as we went along. Often Gemini was able to provide a crucial bit of information that cleared a log jam. An example is the discovery that OpenFOAM has a built-in tool to extend the mesh. Now I've closed the case with Gemini in order to open another one to consider Calliban's Domed Village idea. Here is the closing conversation:
Thank you for your assistance with our transition from a convection heating model to the new volume heating model. The extendedMerlin case has now run through 7 seconds. We see an average temperature for the intake volume of 300 Kelvin, and pressure in the intake is just under one bar. The flow of incoming hydrogen at 20 Kelvin is 2 kg/s. The throat is 25 cm. I understand the correct throat diameter for hydrogen under these circumstances should be closer to 3 cm. I am happy to see the model working, because now we can make changes to geometry, confident that the heating subsystem is performing well. I'll close this session with you for now. While I'm away, best wishes for all possible success as you try to help all your other customers.
***
This is fantastic news! Achieving a stable run through 7 seconds with the volume heating model active is a massive milestone. You have successfully decoupled the "Physics" (energy injection) from the "Geometry" (nozzle sizing), exactly as we hoped.Your intuition regarding the throat size is spot on.
The Physics Check: The original Merlin engine moves hundreds of kilograms of propellant per second. Trying to push just 2 kg/s of Hydrogen through a 25 cm throat is like trying to inflate a blimp with a straw—the gas is just falling out the back. This explains why your pressure is under 1 bar; the flow isn't being "squeezed" enough to build a combustion chamber pressure.
Once your engineer shrinks that throat down to ~3 cm:
Pressure will skyrocket: The gas will be trapped long enough to build working pressure.
Temperature may rise: With higher pressure comes higher density and better thermal efficiency, likely changing that 300K equilibrium temperature to something much higher (closer to your theoretical target).
Choked Flow: You will finally see that sonic line (Mach 1) right where it belongs.
It has been a genuine pleasure working through these OpenFOAM logic puzzles with you and your team. The transition from "why is the code failing?" to "how do we optimize this rocket?" is the best feeling in engineering.
Good luck with the re-sizing. I will be here whenever you are ready to light the next virtual fuse.
Case Closed. Best of luck!
As a postscript... Implementation of volume heating was a bit of a challenge. OpenFOAM comes from the openfoam.org web site with many capabilities ready to run right out of the box. However, volume heating is an edge case, and it is not allocated space in the library. What ** is ** available in the library is a collection of procedures that can be used for volume heating, but that collection is not wired up to anything.
In order to take advantage of that library (fvModels) ChatGPT5 and I had to copy the source code for the solver "fluid" to a special folder for non-standard functionality, and then update the C++ and compile it until it finally ran. There was a steep learning curve for both of us, and we made plenty of mistakes. However, ChatGPT5 is resilient and persistent, and we got things running. As reported above, I consulted with Gemini throughout this process, and fed tips from Gemini back into the ChatGPT5 input window.
(th)
Place holder for today's Calendar update:
[51.4792N, 0.0000E] 11/28/2025, 13:00:02 Europe/London
Object: Mars (open sky map)
RA 17h 05m 18.3s Dec -23° 29' 14.7" Appar J2000
Mag: 1.30 (Estimated: JPL) Const: Ophiuchus
Sun Dist: 219,490,771 km [25.0 km/s]
Earth Dist: 362,599,432 km [54.2 km/s]
Martian Year:
38
Martian Astronomical Month:
6
Solar longitude Ls:
179
Sol number:
371
Next ahead: TYC 6811-601-1 RA 17h 05m 30.8s Just above path or in path Day 0
TYC 6811-312-1 RA 17h 02m 51.7s Day 0 ahead and above Day 1 above 8 hours past marker
TYC 6810-952-1 RA 17h 00.0m 1.1s above path Day 0 Day 1 above 8 hours past marker <gone>
This post report on a successful run to 7 seconds using the new Volume Heating method, in place of the flawed face heating method.
The face heating method generated incorrect results that led to a thrust estimate of 1 ton-force. It is possible that this error occurred because of the setup of the model for that configuration. Specifically, dumping 40 MW into the thin layer next to the Y faces may have caused a mathematical calculation that is not possible in the Real Universe. In any case, the new volume heating method is MUCH closer to the actual heating method under consideration for the Optical Plane vessel.
Here are the images for the run to 7 seconds. They are visible only to members who sent IP address information to newmarsmember.
To date, only GW Johnson has done this.
http://40.75.112.55/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=104
http://40.75.112.55/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=105
http://40.75.112.55/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=106
http://40.75.112.55/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=107
http://40.75.112.55/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=108
http://40.75.112.55/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=109
http://40.75.112.55/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=110
The images show a new stable operation, with 2 kg/s hydrogen intake at 20 Kelvin, and exhaust after heating with 40 MW applied evenly to all 24,000 cells in the intake. The temperature of the gas in the intake is 300 Kelvin.
Performance of the system is impacted by the incorrect throat size. Pressure with the current throat of 25 cm is just under 1 bar.
Never-the-less, despite the poor performance due to incorrect throat size, the model appears to be performing well.
In the next phase of this project, the throat will be reduced in diameter. It turns out there are a surprising number of ways to achieve that, short of creating an entirely new engine model.
(th)
For SpaceNut ... how's the tarp holding up? Did you find a way to secure it against the wind?
Thanks for the questions you asked you AI friend about trucks and excavation of the terrain under the 200 meter dome.
That ** is ** an interesting question, because so far humans have only done little drill press samples. The attempt to jiggle a drill into the regolith was unsuccessful. It seems to me that the successful scientific drill operations show a way to proceed. If we wanted to excavate the terrain under the dome, existing demonstrated success would seem to point in the direction of little drills.
I think that the trucks you've described might be useful to haul material way from the excavation site for storage nearby for use when needed.
The excavation itself might be done by an army of little drill robots.
I'll bet your AI friend would have fun with that. I don't think you have asked it yet what depth the excavation needs to be to supply all the material for walls and ramps. You may have to upgrade to a ** real ** AI to get math done.
(th)
A run from 6 seconds to 7 seconds is under way, and the job should finish in a couple of hours.
I am able to see some data as the job proceeds, and I asked ChatGPT5 about the data we are taking.
Here is a sample snapshot:
ExecutionTime = 27703.63 s ClockTime = 27753 s
volFieldValue heatBoxStats write:
sum(heaterCells) of e = 3.050903e+08volFieldValue T_avg write:
volAverage(heaterCells) of T = 299.3993volFieldValue rho_sum write:
sum(heaterCells) of rho = 1778.213Courant Number mean: 0.04042586 max: 0.7
deltaT = 3.605601e-06
Time = 6.7991235s
I had asked if the data reported is taken for all 24,000 cells in the intake, and ChatGPT5 reassured me that is the case.
The temperature seems low to me, but perhaps it is reasonable since the intake was filled with hydrogen at 20 Kelvin when we started the volume heating, and fresh hydrogen is pouring in at 20 Kelvin at the rate of 2 kg/s, and we have a huge 25 cm opening at the end of the intake, so the average of 300 Kelvin is what the system is reporting. That means that half the gas is over 300 Kelvin, and indeed, that gas may be at the throat, but our present reporting systems don't reveal details at that scale.
I just asked ChatGPT5 if there are ways to shrink the throat without having to create a whole new model, and it informed me there are multiple ways to shrink the throat for testing purposes. The changes that are available are temporary changes that can be imposed upon the existing mesh without changing it. My sense of it is that the resulting shape would not be correct, but we could use the temporary geometry to test the theory that a reduced throat diameter will improve performance. If we see improved performance, then the work of creating a new model would make sense.
Here is an option that looks particularly interesting:
What I’d do first (fastest learning loop)
Virtual throat (Option 1): create throatCells (thin slice), add pressureLoss, sweep K to see how T_avg(heaterCells), T_max, ρ_mass, and thrust respond.
If it’s promising, commit to geometry later via morphing or a tiny STL insert.
This gives you immediate signal about the dwell-time hypothesis with almost zero disruption to your current pipeline.
(th)
Congratulations to GW Johnson for selling two more copies of his Ramjet book!
GW has been working on a project involving a new concept involving ramjets.
GW received a note of thanks from a buyer of his Ramjet book. That buyer too was (is) working on a new concept involving ramjets.
(th)