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#1 Re: Life support systems » Perchlorates and Martian Dust » 2022-08-01 10:11:05
I would suggest washing any visible dust off of space suits prior to entry into the hab. Soil can be manufactured by seiving regolith of coarse particles, washing the perchlorate out of the fines and then adding organic matter.
The perchlorate ion is quite unstable. I read an article a couple of months back that suggested that a solution of perchlorate ions could be broken down into oxygen and stable chlorides, by passing a weak electric current through the solution.
I found this article (abstract only):
The results of a study of the effect of the front edge duration of a voltage pulse (τ) on the electric breakdown of ammonium perchlorate single crystals are submitted. Experiments have shown that at τ<1.5 µs, the breakdown threshold field increases with reduction in τ and does not depend on τ at τ>1.5 µs. It is shown that the electric breakdown of ammonium perchlorate results from an impact generation of electrons. The impact generation rate of electrons versus electric field and the diameter of the through channel being formed during electric breakdown in ammonium perchlorate are estimated.
article here
So that's ammonium perchlorate which is I believe what's been used in SRBs as oxidiser. Perhaps you found a different article. I didn't learn too much from this abstract!
#2 Re: Life support systems » Perchlorates and Martian Dust » 2022-08-01 10:05:22
You have a nice topic JohnX.
Callibans notions of electric current flow are of interest.
For initial missions, could it be possible to spray something on the suits that would neutralize the Perchlorates. A chemical reaction? Removal first if possible and then neutralizing agent. Something like a safe biological material. Maybe also including the enzymes that are predicted to allow the extraction of Oxygen from Perchlorates?
Not sure what that could be.
Done.
A suit spray - sounds possible - you mean like a shower in the airlock? For a first mission in a Starship-sized craft that might be feasible if they can keep the mass of liquid down or bring a mini-spray production unit, just add water and other ingredients.
For the enzymes, I don't know how long the reaction would need in order to be effective.
Then recycle the spray liquid, filter out the dissolved dust. This would need some equipment, piping etc. Maybe most of the parts could be 3D printed after arrival.
#3 Re: Life support systems » Perchlorates and Martian Dust » 2022-07-26 08:14:05
JohnX .... this is a topic you created, and you are therefore both the creator and manager of the topic.
You can request Admin support to keep the topic flowing in whatever direction you would prefer.
Most existing NewMars members are respectful of the desires of the topic creator, but occasionally an author will be so inspired they will create a post that veers wildly off topic.
This topic is so narrowly focused it should be (relatively) easy to keep it on track.
(th)
Thanks for your valuable input tahanson. I will devote some time in the next few days to developing the theme.
Void, I'm glad you are contributing ideas to this. You have some great ideas for a fully-developed base. I'm wondering how a starter base would cope with perchlorates, also. Did you see NASA's idea for a Mars suit which attaches to a port on the outside of the base and the astronaut crawls into it, seals it up & detaches from the base? That way perhaps, the outside dust won't get inside so easily. But there's no stopping those micron-sized particles from finding a way in eventually. Their concept is called Suitport
Photo of development unit here
#4 Re: Life support systems » Perchlorates and Martian Dust » 2022-07-23 20:17:38
That's right. I was just about to add an edit to that effect - not much new here, and Void's thread may have covered some of this already. But this takes the subject mainly from a life support angle rather than the chemical engineering & resource extraction angle.
#5 Life support systems » Perchlorates and Martian Dust » 2022-07-23 20:02:34
- JohnX
- Replies: 16
If you’ve read much about the Martian environment and human missions to the planet, the subject of perchlorates will have come up. Ingesting even tiny amounts of perchlorate salts can lead to severe sickness and death. However, they contain a useful amount of oxygen.
If this has all been covered elsewhere, I apologise, but I did search first.
What is Perchlorate?
Perchlorate is an ion, one chlorine atom bonded to four oxygen atoms and carrying a single negative charge. So it’s written as ClO4-¬¬
It usually occurs bonded to a metal atom such as Magnesium. Also, it’s important to remember that perchlorates can dissociate (disintegrate) into a range of other oxychlorines, for example when subjected to ultra-violet light, and some of which appear to be even more dangerous to human health.
Ammonium perchlorate has been used as a rocket oxidiser. In fact NASA’s SLS solid rocket boosters use it with aluminium powder as the fuel.
Void and others discussed processing perchlorates here, and much of the chemistry involved needs time to read. The gist was ‘there are useful chemicals locked up in the Martian dirt which we can process into a range of resource materials’. Bacteria were mentioned as there are species which can digest components of the dirt and will yield minerals and gases we can use.
But since I couldn’t find a thread devoted to perchlorates in general, here is what I’ve dug up. Here's an overview of the deadly dangers and huge potential of perchlorates.
What’s the Problem With Perchlorates?
The basic problem is that they can interfere with the function of iodide uptake in the thyroid gland which leads to hormonal problems. That may sound humourous to a teenager, but long-term this can mean goitre, low metabolism rates and slowing of major organs. It messes with the normal development of an unborn baby and the development of a young child.
The maximum safe dosage of perchlorates is very small - 0.7ug per kg of body weight per day. And beware of eating plants that have taken perchlorate ions from the soil! Martian farmers may have to rethink their master plan if it involved using raw Martian dirt.
The iodide uptake problem is reversible, however, once perchlorates are taken away.
Think of plans to pump and compress local atmosphere for ISRU applications, including life support. Think of marstronauts coming in from Marswalks covered in dust, which gets into the air, which they breathe in. If there’s no effective plan to deal with this, living on Mars may simply not be possible for more than a few days or weeks without confining all human life into a hermetically sealed tin can.
Is There No Hope?
Yes! There is hope for human life on Mars! Here are several angles of attack:
Dust elimination
Bacteria to the rescue
Grabbing the oxygen
1. Dust Elimination
Filtering The Dust
The mining industry already knows a great deal about filtering fine dust particles. For example, the air sucked into gas turbines needs to be very pure to prevent wear and tear over time, so they have developed high-efficiency particulate air filters (EPA) which can capture 99.95% of 0.3-micron particles. From EngineerLive
What size are the dust particles on Mars? According to this study, most are around 1 micron, and in dust storms larger particles are picked up and flung around too. So I would guess (not being a mining engineer) that habitats and ISRU units sucking in the air would have these types of filters but would slowly accumulate perchlorates.
Airlock Systems
Mines use a great deal of water to keep the dust down. But for a water spray or mist to be effective, water droplet size needs to be quite close to the dust particle size.
Perhaps a combination of a water screen then a blast of air passing through filters would cut down most of the toxic dust.
A lot of Martian dust may carry a static charge. An electrostatic system that pulls charged dust particles off your suit may have some effect, although using too high a field strength could mess with the electronics in a suit and the airlock itself.
Pharmaceuticals?
Might there be a way to develop a pharmaceutical that blocks the effects of perchlorates on the uptake of iodide in the thyroid? I have no idea, but you can count on someone looking into it at some point if all these other methods don’t eliminate the problem altogether.
2. Bacteria to the Rescue!
More than 50 species of bacteria have been discovered which actually eat perchlorates for breakfast and burp up oxygen. In this paper from researchers at Cambridge University the whole question is tackled convincingly.
The biogeochemical redox cycle of chlorine is well understood…. And consists of three key steps: (1) ClO4¬¬-¬ reduction; (2) chlorite dismutation and (3) oxygen reduction.
As a side-note, I discovered that dismutation is a chemical reaction simultaneously involving oxidation and reduction. I never knew that was possible!
Rather than having to extract the reaction products from inside the bacteria’s cell, it’s possible to extract the enzyme it uses in the reaction and use that instead. This leads the researchers in the above paper to propose and develop a portable oxygen generator (for use in emergencies) that uses this enzyme. One hour of breathable oxygen would need 100g of the enzyme and about 6kg of perchlorate-bearing dirt, then some water. If it was a practical system I can imagine it being built into all rovers and bases and even perhaps suits as standard issue.
To develop this a little further, I can imagine a microbiology lab on Mars being sorely tempted to develop a strain of these bacteria that can survive under subsurface conditions, away from the worst of the GCRs and solar radiation. An extremophile that eats up dangerous perchlorates and gives off oxygen? What could be better? Could it spread around the planet and pump up the atmospheric pressure, while rendering the dirt a little safer to humankind? It wouldn’t be 100% effective, surely, and the main effect might be that the lab gets closed down by the outrage amongst other settlers who still want to search for indigenous lifeforms. This begs the question of who is going to propose a set of regulations tp govern planetary protection and terraforing initiatives? Now is the time to start.
3. Grabbing the Oxygen
From the sources I’ve cited so far it sounds like it would not be hard to harvest the oxygen from the perchlorate-eating bacteria. However, it’s late and I’ve typed enough for one day!
#6 Re: Civilization and Culture » Government on Mars - ...what are the options? » 2022-07-19 17:20:39
Well, to move gently back to this thread's stated topic, I found in the 1st post that Byron asked 'how an actual governing structure would be set up on Mars'
Scott Beach has a thread about a possible constitution that lays out how settlers can apply for a claim to some territory - right here.
An earlier thread got as far as this post
In my own humble opinion, actually setting up the governing structure would take a major series of conferences between all potential settling parties such as SpaceX, national space agencies, the UN maybe, and so on. It could get messy. But if a well-known body such as the Mars Society formed an outline in advance and convened such a conference, it might help to kickstart the process and get the job done.
Forming the outline would require people with practical political experience, I think, as well as a detailed vision of how a robust and free society could function. So you'd need some advisers. Think of the scholars who've written papers on Mars culture & government and recruit them. And some others who have hands-on experience of the closest analogue ... maybe negotiating the creation of new corporations?
#7 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » A Mars currency » 2022-07-19 16:58:53
It would be an interesting exercise for someone who's studied economics or banking. That's not me though.
Certainly we would not want to use any life-support resources as currency (O2, H2O) since some acquisitive soul would come along and hoard it, then where would everyone else be?
Could some variation on bitcoins & blockchain encryption be the way forward? No physical objects need to be stored or transported.
#8 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » A Mars currency » 2022-07-15 15:02:16
tahanson, maybe Louis was comparing the initial money-less system with introducing a Mars currency. At first, the crew of the first few missions would just share around the food etc according to need, kind of rationing. But that gets difficult when there are 'strangers' or people take too much. So there has to be a currency and price tags, or else they develop a kind of gift and hospitality culture, an honour system. Now that would be interesting.
Whether or not settlements decide on minting coins or notes, I imagine they will still want the ability to transfer funds electronically.
In my basic economic self-education, I found that 'money only has value because we all agree that it has' - in other words it's a trust system.
A Martian works for a corporation for an agreed wage of (say) 1,000 M-credits per day, it's transferred to her account, and on the way home she stops at the Red Rock Cafe and orders a latte. Does the cafe owner accept her M-credits? Or insist on US dollars or something? Once the corporation has established its credibility, the cafe should be OK with the credits, since they know they can order their beans from the corporation using the same credits.
The worker then pays some more credits to a friend who drives her out to see the view from the rim of Valles Marineris. The friend can use the credits to pay to recharge his rover. And so on.
TO start with, how does the corporation invent the new currency? Would they issue some documents and set up a bank, paying some Earth currency in and recording the resulting exchange into M-credits? Not sure about this part. Any ideas?
#9 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » The Mars Secretariat and Calling a Constitutional Convention on Mars » 2022-07-11 20:11:32
JohnX asked,
How do you see this being put into action, realistically?
Should the Mars Society and other space advocacy groups support the establishment of an international regime that will eventually transform itself into a sovereign martian government? Yes. We can do that much ourselves. We can also ask people to demonstrate their commitment to the settlement of Mars by filing a martian settlement plan. People who file such plans can then ask their national governments to provide funding for the construction of martian settlements.
Scott
Thanks, Scott, I hadn't read that part of the Moon Treaty (or not recently). Strictly speaking, that treaty isn't in effect since no spacefaring nations ratified it, but parts of it could be a model.
In my very amateur opinion, I would imagine that even a respected body like the Mars Society would be looked down upon or ignored if it attempted to create an international regime of this sort on its own. This needs the involvement and consultation of involved parties - industry and government, most likely - NASA, ESA, RosCosmos, JAXA, ISRO, the Chinese equivalent, SpaceX, scholarly expert voices too (maybe people like Charles S Cockell and people at the Blue Marble Space Institute of Science who have written articles on these things.)
If this fills the reader with dismay, well I understand. The process would likely get bogged down & over-complex. But the people most likely to invest effort and money into reaching & settling Mars are the ones we should be talking to. Taking a strong enough lead, investing in a strong media presentation, being 100% prepared, and convincing key figures ahead of time would be keys to success.
Comments? Has this all been thrashed through before somewhere else on the forum? 
#10 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » The Mars Secretariat and Calling a Constitutional Convention on Mars » 2022-07-10 18:49:07
Scott, to my limited grasp of law & political science, this sounds great, although establishing a Mars Secretariat might sound like a provocative or fringe eccentric act to most of the world unless those involved include some (1) very rich business people and (2) experienced astronauts and (3) well-known scientists, and coming from a variety of nations. How do you see this being put into action, realistically?
Here's a slightly copy-edited version. I think 10 sq km would be about 3.8 sq miles.
[DRAFT] Agreement to Establish an International Regime Named Government of Mars
Article I. The parties to this Agreement hereby establish an international regime named Government of Mars. As used in this Agreement, regime means "a system or planned way of doing things".
Article II. This international regime shall support the orderly establishment of permanent human settlements on Mars.
Article III. A Martian settlement plan may be authored and signed by five or more people. A Martian settlement plan may specify settlement borders that enclose up to 10,000,000 square meters (about 3.8 square miles or one township).
Article IV. The Martian Settlement Plan Depository is hereby established. All of the settlement plans in the Depository shall be publicly available via the Internet.
Article V. The Secretary of State of the Government of Mars shall maintain the Martian Settlement Plan Depository. The offices of the Secretary of State shall be known as the Mars Secretariat.
Article VI. A Martian settlement plan may be submitted to the Secretary of State. If a settlement plan clearly and completely specifies the borders of the proposed settlement then that plan may be added to the Depository. However, if a plan specifies borders that conflict with the borders in a previously filed settlement plan then the conflicting plan shall not be added to the Depository.
Article VII. When five or more settlements have been established in accordance with this Agreement, three or more settlements may call a Constitutional Convention. The Convention may adopt a Constitution that transforms this international regime into a government that exercises dominion over Mars or over specified portions of Mars.
#11 Re: Life support systems » Optimal air pressures.. - Which is best? More O2 or more pressure? » 2020-01-31 15:41:34
Bolbuyk probably should have said Argon rather than Helium. It has about the same abundance in Mars atmosphere as Nitrogen and would be just as good as a buffer gas.
The low partial pressure of nitrogen, though, might make life difficult for nitrogen fixing bacteria, and we are heavily dependent on these, particularly where we don't have industrial nitric acid or urea plants.
There was a post way back in this topic with the idea that hydroponics would provide the nitrogen in the aqueous solution used. That would allow Argon to be used, not He (not available) or N2 (avoid the bends).
#12 Re: Martian Chronicles » Red Planet short story - First of a series? » 2019-09-25 10:11:02
thanks @tahanson43206.
In fact I did start a thread a while ago - http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7638 - which received some comments. I was at the time thinking through how Martian settlers would govern themselves early on.
I did learn a thing or three from the technical posts too. Lots of good practical ideas here.
#13 Re: Martian Chronicles » Tent Towns » 2019-09-24 14:06:55
Yeah, I loved those descriptions too. How about the part where Maia and maybe Sax watch the Martian sunsets every night sharing a bottle of wine, with all the extra gas pressure that has been added over the 100 years of settlement, logging the colours they see, until suddenly they see a deep blue and say "that's just like the sky of Earth!" which they haven't seen for so long.
#14 Re: Martian Chronicles » Red Planet short story - First of a series? » 2019-09-24 14:03:17
Just so you know - the book is now published: https://www.amazon.ca/Building-Mars-con … 1097182053
I enjoyed writing it; made me think about how life would be for the first few crews to land there; how they could get on with each other when stuff goes wrong. And that reflects on how life on Earth could be better for each of us too.
#15 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Make a Mars Law - it's time to get serious... » 2019-01-31 21:23:17
I don't have an issue with the KKK setting up a colony, as long as they keep to themselves. I don't mind the Nation of Islam doing so either, or the Black Hebrew Israelites, or the Latin Kings if they can get the resources together... as long as they keep to themselves. Well, and don't hold people hostage. That's a very important one.
Right, open-mindedness and tolerance are virtues to a point, and it avoids making laws that try (in vain?) to bar certain groups or ideologies from settling Mars. That way leads to a mindset of repression, perhaps.
But where does it end up, realistically? Right now in the UK and Canada I read that some immigrant communities who bring their cultural and social practices with them are under pressure to give up child marriage. There's also the recent upswell of #meToo popular concern to end the mistreatment of women. There's the universal nausea at pedophilia and child pornography. If an insular community harbours these or other wrongs, presumably violating a Martian charter of human rights, the planetary community would need to intervene... somehow. I don't think Terraformer meant to suggest we ignore these things, but it's another illustration of how the Human Factor is in some ways much more intractable than the tech challenges of becoming an interplanetary species.
-- edit -- Ah, I see that Louis dealt with this already in #15 above. But perhaps it's worth saying twice
#16 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Make a Mars Law - it's time to get serious... » 2019-01-31 20:44:49
After much time away from New Mars, I was browsing the cornucopia and came across this challenge thrown down by Clark about 15 months ago. Anyone who's read KSR's Mars trilogy or has much imagination will know that Clark's hit a bullseye here - the several-sided balance between repression, freedom, control, cultural change, technology, group psychology and goodness knows how many other factors. Look ahead 100 or 200 years and imagine if life on Mars was just as crazy as life on Earth, socially, or worse, only stuck inside domes and tunnels with about one-third the gravity. Or all dead because of some psychopathic nutcase. Somewhat disappointing after all the hard work getting that far.
So most contributors to this forum seem to favour an attempt at full constitutional democracy, such as IanM's grand design above. So far so good, although I can't claim any deep understanding of government & politics.
But so far as aiming to solve this potential for disruptive action by a minority, eg holding everyone to ransom with a bomb in the Life Support System, well it's not really going to get solved with human nature as it is, but my main long-term suggestion would be :
- to build community at every stage and at every level;
- to build into the Mars culture the belief that everyone and every minority is valuable,
- that life is worth living,
- that conflict can and must be solved peacefully,
- that we all have a duty to serve and protect the whole of society and especially its weaker members.
So that before that unhinged individual blows his (usually 'his') top, someone befriends him and gets him some help, or at least takes him for a coffee and a long chat. If everyone is known, as a human being and a friend, wouldn't that go some way to slowing down the madness?
Now, how you would go about building that kind of community is another question. Some of it you might manage to legislate into being, but that won't guarantee that people will take any notice.
Any suggestions?
#17 Re: Martian Chronicles » Red Planet short story - First of a series? » 2019-01-31 19:20:47
Thanks Idoday. Actually since last post I have stopped updating the story on the blog - just too much work. I'm aiming to finish it, publish it on CreateSpace, then leave a link to that here. If anyone's desperate to know what happens next and can't wait, let me know.
Just reached the beginning of what I suspect is the last chapter.
#18 Re: Martian Chronicles » Red Planet short story - First of a series? » 2018-06-06 10:43:30
Note that I've edited all references to SpaceX; it's now called NewSpace. This is fiction, after all.
Several new pieces are up on the blog: The SSI crew's approach & landing on Mars at Arcadia Planitia & the initial search for the lost NewSpace crew.
#19 Re: Human missions » Should we establish Mars bases, settlements or a colonies? » 2018-03-26 10:43:36
A Mars base might be a research station or a basic, temporary, initial settlement before they come up with a better name.
Habitat will get abbreviated to Hab, and seems like a handy way to refer to a living accomodation
I agree with IanM & others - 'to settle', 'settlers', 'settlement' is probably the most descriptive and least likely to cause needless offence. Whatever, it's always possible to reclaim misunderstood terms by using them repeatedly, so people will associate them with what settlers are actually doing.
Louis, why the focus on Sagan? Sure he was a visionary, but one of many pathfinders on the long road to the planets. Kepler, Galileo, Goddard, Tsiolkovsky, Korolyev, Gagarin, Kennedy, Armstrong, Wells, Lowell, Zubrin... to name but a few.
#20 Re: Human missions » The 7% change to Twin's Gene expression » 2018-03-26 10:29:22
Shouldn't we be looking at two effects here?
- effects of zero gravity on DNA
- effects of radiation exposure to DNA
I don't believe that the ISS is as well shielded from GCR & solar wind as a well-built Mars house would be. But long-term settlers would be there for more than 12 months. I can't do that kind of maths!
Up to 8 months in zero-G en route to Mars may still be the main exposure to weightlessness, but increased radiation on Marswalks and the effects of 1/3 G over long periods would be in the mix too.
I know I'm not at all quantifying this.
#21 Re: Human missions » Lunar Gravity-Assist boost to TMI trajectory? » 2018-03-25 11:41:35
After a little more searching I have found some references to the idea of using the Moon for gravity-assisted flight to Mars. So it may be feasible after all. Here are some references :
The slingshot effect, a paper by RC Johnson - see Introduction & reference (8) which I found inaccessible
Space Stack Exchange: Using Luna for gravity assist for interplanetary probes - there's a note from a user here that says: 'Excluding Nozomi, there's a common thread in these uses: The vehicles aren't going to another planet. One reason the Moon isn't used much for interplanetary missions is because things don't line up properly, and in the rare cases when they do, the opportunities are rather short-lived.'
Part of this issue must be that the Moon has to be in that point in its orbit where a flyby will boost you towards your target.
The Nozomi reference is: 'The Japanese Nozomi spacecraft also made use of a lunar flyby. Unfortunately, things went awry on the subsequent Earth flyby and then went awry again at Mars.'
'Things not lining up properly' etc may refer to differences in orbital planes, which need extra dV to correct for. The Moon's orbital plane is about 28.5 deg. from Earth's equatorial plane. But the Moon's is also close to the ecliptic, which ought to be useful.
A quick approximation using the formula using this simplified plane change formula I get that we need a dV of about 50% of the orbital velocity for a plane change of around 30 degrees. So actually that could make a quick loop around the Moon too 'expensive' to be worthwhile, unless we can do the plane change when v is at a minimum, such as at the apogee of an eccentric orbit. I seem to remember from my efforts on a Space Sim program that it works better that way. Any thoughts on that?
#22 Re: Human missions » Lunar Gravity-Assist boost to TMI trajectory? » 2018-03-25 10:58:47
You mean Welcome Back
Been busy writing Mars SF and writing & practicing some 'space rock' which was great fun.
#23 Human missions » Lunar Gravity-Assist boost to TMI trajectory? » 2018-03-25 10:22:20
- JohnX
- Replies: 3
It occurred to me after reading about the Voyager probes that a Mars mission might use the Moon for a delta-V boost, thus saving some launch mass or enabling a shorter transit to Mars.
Then it occurred to me that I'm not that clever, so someone else must have thought of it and dismissed it long ago, which would be why I've never heard mention of the idea. Or else I'm not as widely read as I'd like to think!
Here's what I found; I'm sure there are some readers much better equipped mathematically.
In this StackEchange Post it gives a formula for the ideal change in delta-V based on the approach velocity relative to the body to be used (here, the Moon), spacecraft's distance from the Moon, and the Moon's mass.
I calculated the ideal approach velocity relative to the Moon would be about 1.6 km/s for a closest approach (measured from the Moon's centre) of 1800km, so 63km above the surface (Mons Huygens, highest lunar mountain is 5.5km says Wikipedia)
With these figures, a Mars spacecraft would ideally gain about 1.6km/s delta-V.
Considering the delta-V from Earth intercept to Mars intercept is around 1 km/s, I'm thinking there must be a good reason why this won't work! Or surely we would have heard more about it.
Can anyone shed some light on this please?
#24 Re: Martian Chronicles » Red Planet short story - First of a series? » 2018-01-30 20:28:09
For anyone who's been following this serialized story, we've finally reached launch day. I've most recently posted these 'chapters' on the story blog :
Doubt: a few weeks before launch, with Marco and Don.
Launch Day
For anyone who's just showed up, welcome! Come on in to the Red Planet Cafe and start the story at the beginning:
New World Rising
See posts above for an introduction. There's a very similar one on the main page.
...and as I said before, this is all fair game to constructive technical criticism. I like to learn. Tell me where the mission plan and technology are off-centre.
#25 Re: Martian Chronicles » Cassini Haiku Sequence » 2018-01-30 20:13:54
I regret that I haven't had time to follow this piece of Solar System exploration. Thank you for giving us a wonder-filled overview!