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If the shuttle weighs about 100tons, and can get to 200 km, can't we just strap the marsbound craft onto the shuttle fuel tank and boosters, add a couple of engines to the mars-craft, and send it on it's way? How much would the engines weigh? more than the 12 ton difference? (I'm using 12 tons because RobertDyck says we need to get 88tons to 200km).
What propulsion method is proposed for the Earth to Mars portion of the mission? From what I've been reading on solar electric propulsion, it would save a lot of weight for the launch, and might even get there faster.
I just checked out the Artemis Project website. They suggest using robots to cover up their lunar module in regolith, to insulate and act as a radiation shield. This might not be a bad idea. Question is how long it would take to do, and if holes can still be left for the windows and airlock door without compromising the shieldiness (just made that word up) of the cover.
Question: I understand that the safe haven relies on the bulk of the stores as a shield from radiation. What happens as these stores are used up? Doesn't this mean less protection as the mission progresses?
On the issue of size of the hab - I served on board a small diesel submarine, and can tell you that this sounds absolutely luxurious. I'm positive the two year mission can be done if the people on board are carefully screened and have the willpower to do it.
Mars Direct has an even more dire commitment. Once you launch from Earth you had better land on Mars. There is no abort option. The only backup is to send another ERV. There is a free return option, but would the hab survive Earth reentry?
I may be completely out of my league in posting on this thread, as I didn't understand most of what y'all are talking about. But in answer to this question, the hab doesn't need to survive earth re-entry, it only needs to be able to dock with the ISS. I'm sure in the time it takes to make the round trip a re-entry vehicle or space shuttle could be sent to the ISS to return them to earth.
I worry about the male-female dynamics of a mixed-gender crew. I can only see this from a female perspective, of course [since I've never been a man, obviously] -- and I'm only speaking for myself and NOT for any other women; also, I'm only speaking from a U.S.A. woman's standpoint, as I've never lived in another culture/society:
I've heard that a few navies have mixed gender submarine crews, which shows that teams of both sexes can work in close proximity in an enclosed environment without letting the tension get in the way.
Though for a 3 year mission, I think it would be best to send couples.
Of course, then what happens if they decide on the way to Mars that they can't stand each other and want a divorce? They're stuck together.
I also use Opera. Though it has some downfalls, like the advertising (I'm using the freeware version), and incomplete support of CSS, nothing beats it for speed, and ease of use. The use of mouse gestures saves lots of time. Also, there's an integrated e-mail program (which Mozilla has as well). It's also easily costomized, to include search windows, which is especially useful while reading these forums, because I always have to do searches about the technobabble, 90% of which I don't understand ??? .
As I read this thread I kept thinking of the Space Elevator crash in one of the Kim Stanley Robinson books, and the destruction it caused. Somebody (sorry, I'm too lazy to check who) wrote that most of the ribbon would burn up in the atmosphere. Is this true? Are they giving it proper consideration? I don't know how realistic the description of that crash is, but I remember some major destruction, on a nuclear scale, due to the velocity the upper end of the ribbon attained on the way down. That's a little scary. But if it's a feasible idea, it'd be a great step forward for space exploration.
I think for this reason, part of the training for such a mission should be spending a few months on board a submarine (I'm not biased at all, as my name would suggest ).
The ideal astronaut used to be a hotshot pilot, but now that missions are much longer, you need somebody with the ability to withstand the psychological pressures of confined space, while doing his/her job, and still maintaining cordial relations with those around him/her.
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