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what about this for a theory?
We know that gravitional fields both push and pull objects away from this planet based on the objects mass and metalic composition. If a way could be found to use and Ion engine to exert a force of the same EM field as that of a planet the ship would be propelled into space at a rate of velocity determined by the mass of the vessel, the exerted force placed upon the EM field of the planet and the planets own EM field strength exerted back upon the force exerted by the ION engine.
what about using an ION engine? The consumption of fuel would make the venture to Mars less costly then other forms of propulsion. The only question is will the engine provide enough thrust to propell the ship to Mars in a feasible amount of time?
What it would do is make their people look skywards instead of looking down all the time. More science is what this world needs, only those who are dictorial and without progressing outwards need religion.
Not to be the prude of group, but a monkey could see through this sham.
Nice idea dryson but have you any idea what this asteroid "ore" would cost per ton on Earth?
It seems to me you one eyed pecker that when ever an idea comes along that doesn't keep your children close to you, you shoot it down or simply because it is not your idea it doesn't sound good. It's not my fault that you lack to imagination and intellectual comprehension of what this project would do for space exploration let alone the Earth.
Lets look at spiritual aspect of bringing ore from the asteroid belts back here to Earth. True the ore would be just like it is here on Earth, but the fact that it came from a distant source out in the solar system would allow people to feel closer to what is in outter space.
It would also make people want more of this ore to manufacture with as the status of saying "Yep, My garden hoe is made out of composite material from an asteroid belt millions of miles away. Whats yours made out of? Oh...just the regular old Earth composite material. How boring."
This would type of venture would make for new conversation pieces to hand down or hang over the fireplace.
Just think of holding a rake made from an asteroid that once orbited Jupiter. Hell I'd buy one.
Next the ore from the asteroid belt may be completely different then that here on earth. You have to remember that the ore here on earth has laid dormant for millions of years under the gravitational mechanism's of the Earth.
The ore composition of an asteroid freely orbiting Jupiter may be completely different and yield different types of metal tensile strengths once refined here on Earth.
We can't just sit here on Earth and gave up and ask "What if we...." that methodology does not work any longer. There has to be a can do attitude of always pushing forward reguardless of what some whom I call Earth Bound Miscrients say. If Columbus feared falling off of the edge of the Earth then there wouldn't have been an America.
That's something to ponder.
I think it is better to put our limited funds into lunar and Martian projects as well as projects finding planets similar to Spaceship Earth in other solar systems.
At least Moon, Mars and terrestial planet projects have some chance of returning a huge benefit to Mankind.
Ron Carlson
What needs to be done is this. A new type of robotic mining ship maybe the size of the Progress needs to be developed. This ship would then head out to the inner most ring of the belt or 255 million miles from the sun.
Then the robotic miner would land on a sizeable asteroid, one that would be easily fractured with explosives, drilling or a combination of explosive drilling to a certain depth.
For the explosives portion the miner would land at calculated areas on the asteroid that would present the weakest structural support. Explosives would then be placed at these points and detonated fracturing the asteroid. A second smaller robotic manipulator would then grab hold of the chunks of asteroid and deposit them into a container at the aft section of the robotic miner. Once full, the miner would release the container, the container would then travel back to the ISS where the container would then be sent to Earth where the Ore would then refined and used to manufacture other robitic miners and containers.
This type of venture would make it possible for small inter-planetary business' to thrive in an otherwise un-tapped medium of resources.
It has to happen sometime and just like the first automobile that was expensive but seen the cost driven down by demand so to will this venture.
Besides we can't continue to strip mine Earth to get what we need, eventually the change in the wind patterns caused terraforming will have a sever imapct on the Earth.[/code]
It would be a very good notion that the launching of Irans IRBM would lead the Iranians to begin a space exploration program. One more country vested in exploration means one step closer to a unified world united in a common goal that benefits all.
I have a question that pertains to rockets but not the VASMIR, For my ISS Module ship project I am working on I have come across the deleted Propulsion Module that would have been able to dock with the Unity Module and provide manuevering and other course correction's.
Would this module be able to be uprated with the orbiter engine pods to provide enough thrust to make it to the Moon and onto Mar's and then make a return voyage back to the Earth?
The first part to terraform Mars would be to pick a location near one of the polar caps. The second would be to completely encase a hundred yard by hundred yard section of martian soil that measures 19 feet deep
This soil would be encased in an airtight stainless steel tray with a glass dome over it. Polar ice would then be pumped to a station where it would be melted down into water and also turned into a gaseous state. The water would then be used to irrigate the soil. The gases would then be mixed with an oxygen rich, nitrogen and hygrogen mix and pumped into the dome.
The other half of the dome would be used to see if there are any seeds of life hidden within the soil by partioning one side. This side would be planted with corn, and other easily grown foods. The polar ice would then be irrigated via the method above into the dome along with the gases stated above.
This will prove that the seeds of life exist in the soil or the soil has the potential to be seeded with life.
I think motion sickness is first and foremost psycological. By keeping ones eyes fixed on an object while moving at extreme rates of velocity the psycological effects of motion sickness have been reduced by 50%.
The heat would be carried to the surface yes, but the gases released would start to circumvenulate around the planet per the wind patterns. These gases would cause changes with the polar ice caps thus causing more changes to occure.
The more material, relating to chunks of martian crust, that are fed into the core the more active the core will become eventually leading to magamatic releases to the surface.This process leads back to the first paragraph that I have written here.
first answer, adding more rock to the core shoulndt increase its energy stores, as the enery contained within bodies like earth are remenants of the energy when they formed (or from fissionable material, adding uranium like hell to the core might help reheat it.
Second answer: yes volcanic ougassing wil help replenish the martian atmosphere but not quickly enough for human time scales
This is true. But as the tectonic plates crash into each other wouldnt the opposite reaction of a landmass being pushed up also occure by being pushed down towards the core? Eventually this chain of events would reach the core and large chunks would break off into the core and be melted to the temperature of the core itself. We must also remember that the elements contained within the core are also the the elements contained within the planets crust and mantles. This would mean that when the chunks reached the core they would be melted by the ambient temperature of the core and returned to the liquid state of their element.
Thus adding more material to the core that when the core reached a certain pressure like a tea kettle does when it has boiled to a certain temperature would release this pressure back in the form of magma that when the magma reaches cooler temperature zones would then harden back into the material that has not been burnt off.
Take some ice cream leave it sit out in a hot zone of the day, what does it do? It begins to melt, put it back into the freezer and what happens? It refreezes.
This will not follow popular Einstein Theory but is real.
Space cannot be warped. Space is nothing an absolute. You cannot take space and krinkle it up and expect to create a smaller distance. You can neither fold space like you can a piece of paper and create a shorter distance.
Time is the measurable distance an atom takes given the atom's energetic properties along with the medium that the atom is introduced into. The H2O atom functions differently in a freezing medium or 32 degrees fahenheit as opposed to the H2O atom functioning in a 70 degrees fahenheit medium.
This is also true with space. The only difference is that in space the main mediums encountered are
1. Gravity - produced by planets, suns and other planetary bodies that
have an active core that can produce an electromagnetic field. The
electromagnetic field will not spread throughout the entire Universe but
will be limited by the activeness of the core, the elements of the core
and the overall mass of the core. A key point to remember is that the
mass of the planet is not entirely important but the size of the core and
electromagnetic field are what gives a planet it's electromagnetic field
or gravity. The electromagnetic field of a planet or other planetary body
will only be as great as the core. The EM field will also diminish the
farther you get away from the planetary body. This can be seen in a
variety of expierements that you can do yourself. The one I like the
best is the matchstick. For this expierement YOU MUST take extreme
caution ensuring that you are in a well ventilated area, there are not
any flamable materials around and you have an extinguisher near by in
case of emergency. The footlong wooden matchsticks work the best.
have a friend hold the match out at arms length from her/him, next
light the match with a lighter or another match. You will notice that the
heat or gravity is mush more intense the closer you are to the match or
planet. The farther you get away from the match or planet as the match
is being referenced to the less heat or gravity there is. This medium is
key to producing a warp drive unit that doesn't warp the space the uses
energy to escape the gravity pull and push of the planets within a solar
system. Once outside of a solar system however the gravity will
diminish rapidly until the next solar system is encountered.
2. The second medium to be encountered is space dust or particles that
are excelerating at velocities greater then the speed of sound and also
slower.
Warp drive isn't about warping space but creating an energy potential capable of once outside the gravitated extremes of a solar system to propel a ship at or near the speed of light. The main factor limiting faster
then light speed travel is gravity. The less gravity you encounter the faster your ship would be able to go.
Look for Dynamo theory, for an explanation of how Earth generates its magnetic field. Unfortunately just making a machine like that doesn't mean you'll get a magnetic field at all. If you stir the tea in a cup with a teaspoon, you won't get any magnetic field.
Earth has a solid iron core (called the Inner Core), engulfed in a sea of melted iron (called the Outer Core). Above that are the mantle and the crust.
Our magnetic field is produced by the currents in the ocean of iron from the Outer Core, because iron conducts electricity and is ferromagnetic. Some of these currents are generated by the rotation of Earth (actually by the difference in Earth's rotation and Core rotation), some by heat from the Inner Core.
But Mars' core is less dense, cooler, and appears to be (almost) entirely solid at this point. Also, it doesn't appear as made entirely from iron, but a mix of sulphates and iron.
So this is the reason Mars doesn't have a magnetic field, and is hard to change that. The first step would be to heat it's core, which is impossible for the next... 1000 years? After that, maybe Mars will get it's own magnetic field without the aid of any machine in orbit.
Here is a question on to create a more active Martian core. We know that magma comes from the recirculation of the lower crust level of the layers of Earth. In theory when an earthquake occures the chunks would fall into the core and since the core is super heated the material would be melted. Eventually this material would build up in the form of magma and would push it's way to the surface through volcanoes.
The first question is this: Is it possible to create a near core quake on Mars that would add more material to the core that would then add more fuel to the furnace of Mars? Eventually wouldn't this create a more energetic core that would create a stronger magnetic field?
The second question is when the magma eventually reached the point of needing to escape somewhere, the magma would follow a fracture point to the surface thus releasing magma and super heated gases into the atmosphere. These super heated gases would then melt the polar ice caps. These gases would then inter-act with the martian atmosphere creating a possible Earth like atmosphere. Would this type of interaction create the gases needed to create an atmosphere?
This design has been re-worked. I failed to see that the MPLM only has one useable hatch and was rated at for a tour in space of 180 days.
The MPLM has been replaced with the Harmony, Node 3 and the Columbus Science module. The Columbus Science module would need to be re-wroked to allow for fuel storage but would work.
The engine would need to be capable of pulse propelling the ship (turning the engine off and on until the needed velocity was achieved) to the Moon and to Mars. The engine would also need to be able to not create a force on the docking mechanisms of each node or module that would twist the whole ship causing catastraphic failure of the docking mechanisms.
I beleives the ORION module engine the AeroJet AJ10 would be sufficant for this purpose.
This is how the set-up would go
ORION CM = Harmony(node 2)=(connecting adapter) = Harmony(node2)=(connecting adapter) = node 3 =(connecting adapter)= Columbus Science module (the shell only)=(connecting adapter)=Engine suite (AJ10?)
Cupola could be fitted at the any of the twelve hatches on the Harmony and node 3 modules along with modified cargo containers meant to dock at the hatches. The hatches could also be used for modified expieriment, communications, solar array or robotic arm docking. In this type of configuration the ship could be used for many multi-specific tasks.
Why should the cost of continuing humanities exploration into space be hindered by cost factors? Those cost's you speak of are figured into the formulae for exploration. It sounds to me like you are not a genuine explorer but one of those that just want to dream about it, hoping that it never comes true.
Why because then the world wouldn't revolve around you, which it doesn't by the way, the world revolves around the sun.
If exploration to the moon and onto Mars doesnt happen, then what is humanity going do? Sit around on Earth comptiplating the future hoping the future rides in a ray of light? Well that's not how it happens. Also the mentality of if we can't get there faster then we can now then there is no reason to even try is horse apples! Do you think all of the earlier explorers sat around and thought about what was over the horizon? No they went out built masted ships caught breeze in her sails and look danger straight in the eye and said "Bring me that Horizon" "....second star to the right..and straight on till the morning."
If humanity doesn't not push for more exploration then the cost of space exploration will never go down and from the sounds in your voice that's what you want. For the record you are not a singular controlling entity that determines the course of human evolvotion.
You can only see one small picture of the world the you are in, open the blinds and shutters and look at the bigger picture here. If not, I suggest you put on a dress and twirl around the room for the rest of your life.
The next problem I can foresee is the structual stability between the two docking mechanism's. These points would stress points. When the engine is fired, these points would twist and turn alittle causing shear force to be put upon the mechanism itself. If anyone has a solution to this flaw in the design it would be appreciated.
Mars is The Object. Other than Mars, the rest of the solar system is just one big mine. Only Earth and Mars, Terraformed or not, can be a Home. The moon will, in all probability, end up a no-man's land of mining towns and a few (seperate) tourist locations, which are generally circumvented because of the eventually created tourist resorts in closer GEO. The current plan sees flags and footsteps around 2040. With your plan, the first person there will be some greedy capitalist, somewhere in the neighborhood of 2150, there to bring the kind of chaos that the 'metanats' in RGB mars heft upon the martians.
Do you really want that?
The only real plausible approach to using the Moon would be that of a re-fueling and re-stocking way point for the mission to mars. Now I have designed a vehicle that will work for mass transport of cargo and equipment to the moon to speed the building of support facilities to Mars.
This vehicle can be modified by enlarging the fuel tank to allow for a two way trip to Mars while carrying enough cargo to make the trip there worthwhile and cost effecient.
The main reason why Mars is important is because Mars has polar ice caps that can be used to produced drinking water to sustain the naughts while they are there. The moon doesnt, meaning more would have to be spent on taking this basic neccesity of life to the moon.
The Moon has basic minerals and is of least importance when it comes to this method of profiting.Mars however has not been explored under the surface and all we know they may be new forms of mineral structures that will lead to new metals, new metals lead to new building designs ect.
This is not the most important reason for going to Mars, but is among the top ten reasons. The main reason is continuing the exploration of mankinds surroundings and not taking a back seat to those who would rather sit at home watch soaps and eat bon bon's all day long.
But look at the cost of launching a heavy cargo ship versus using the MPLM. The MPLM once at the moon and the it's cargo delivered would then be added to the continual buidling of the moon base. The MPLM would function in the same manner as it works with the ISS. This type of package is a two for one deal where as the Heavy cargo lifter has wasted components like the engine and navigation systems. I can guarantee this package will save money in the long run which can be used to build other vehicles or add-ons to the ISS.
Well that was dumb to cancel it. Why waste the money on transporting small amounts of cargo when the ISS can provide us with the means to build a viable vehicle out of component parts from the ISS that would save money by being able to transport larger quanities of cargo at once instead of wasting money and sending small amounts of cargo over many trips.
The redesign for the tank module has been changed to the same diameter as that of the MPLM. The length shall be that of being able to hold 120 klg of LH2 fuel along with an approximate volumed LOX tank. The J-2X has been scrapped and replaced with the same engine that is currently being used on the Orion cm/sm.
Although irrelevant perhaps you could come to the inter-lunar vehicle post and help me redesign the fuel tank system used to propel the ship i have designed with component parts from the ISS.
Does anyone have the particulars one the Constellation cargo vehicle?
What I need to know is possible to load the tank and engine for the pilyhas-1 into the cargo bay to launch into space?
These last two units would be last in the logistics schedule to be put into space and would imediately be docked with the rest of the ship. Once docked fuel would then be taken to the fuel tank loaded and an intial test firing of the main engine would be conducted.
The design stated above for the lunar lander has been scrapped instead the Altair will instead be used. This vehicle is already designed to work with the fore docking mechanism of the Orion CM.
I think I may have solved the problem of both the fuel storage and engine package. The fuel storage will be the 280 klb Liquid Oxygen/Liquid Hydrogen tank used in the Ares I CEV
This module has been re-designed. Instead of using the 280 klb tank, a smaller version is needed. The reason is there would need to be such a large tank to send the vehicle to the moon.
The tank size has been lowered to 120 klb tank, with the same engine still being used.
I would have to agree with you, the more un-usable waste that is left behind the more money is lost when a module could and should be made to be re-usable many times over before being retired.
How this would work is we would take the old ascent and descent modules of the apollo lunar lander and refit them.
The vehicle would be designed based on the old Apollo lunar lander but with some changes. Instead of having an ascent and descent module. The descent module would be made a permanent part of an Orion CM module.
All extraneous equipment on the Orion CM not necessary for the ascent and descent to the surface would be removed.
