New Mars Forums

Official discussion forum of The Mars Society and MarsNews.com

You are not logged in.

Announcement

Announcement: This forum is accepting new registrations by emailing newmarsmember * gmail.com become a registered member. Read the Recruiting expertise for NewMars Forum topic in Meta New Mars for other information for this process.

#1 Re: Human missions » Human Mars Landing Mission for 2033 » 2006-05-27 13:20:42

Or MAYBE you just achived your goal of 'showing you the scientific level of the author's approach to the problem.' a bit TO well.

Author fruitful life is speaking enough for his scientific references. How many aircraft designers are visiting this forum, D.Sc. in Aeronautics or even test pilots?

I knew what kind of people are visiting forums such this and I already told you "it is just information about new book" for maybe 10% visitors of forum who are serious.

All the best

to all

Over&out

#2 Re: Human missions » Human Mars Landing Mission for 2033 » 2006-05-26 07:41:31

NASA can't do it without more serious founding because in this moment estimated mission price is 400 billion USD. Today's US i.e. Republican administration with heavy financial anchor around its neck in form of Middle East Oil-wars can't fund it. That is reason why Mars mission must be internationally accepted mission. That is one of thesis of General Rendulic book.

Also for humans it is necessary to use high energy transfers during Earth-Mars opposition (every two years). In that case voyage would last 1 year and 3 month while first mission crew could stay on Mars for one month period. Of course before them on Mars must land robotic Landers with necessary cargo for establishment of first Mars base and that cargo would came by slower and cheaper trajectories. 

Of course this is not right place for revealing technical details such is design of Outpost habitat modules, Rovers, Nuclear Power Module and Greenhouse Inflatable Blader which will be parts of first Mars base. Also Mars Base problems such is Regolith Shielding, Berms, Multi-use surface Construction Equipment, Recycle/Reusability Engineering, Martian Wind Storms and environment, Astronaut Health, Strength and Dexterity - we also can't solve here.  It is too complex problem for anybody who can't understand realistic time and cost frame for such mission.

mr.sc. Tino Jelavic

#3 Re: Human missions » Human Mars Landing Mission for 2033 » 2006-05-25 06:29:00

such as how much mass is going to be sent to mars, how, and what this mass will consist of

You expect discussion about such technical details in situation when NASA send its astronauts to ISS with Soyuz TM's and when USA administration cant predict the end of Iraq occupation which consumes most of DoD budget.

I think you should look movie "Right stuff" (again?) and remember the saying "No bucks, no buck-Rogers" wink

And of course I am posting here only introductions in chapters to show you scientific level of author's approach to the problem.

Unfortunately it seems I must still wait for mentioned 10% of forum members  sad

#4 Re: Human missions » Human Mars Landing Mission for 2033 » 2006-05-24 06:14:32

12.2. The recent uncertainties in prediction of the manned Moon and Mars missions

The chaos theory tell us that we can newer be too sure what is going to happen in the field of big manned space mission just a few decades into the future. There are a lot of examples they confirm this theory.

In 1953 von Braun published the first engineering study an a human expedition to Mars with 10 spaceships with 7 crew per craft.

Between 1961 and 1966 NASA awarded as many as 60 contracts to aerospace companies requesting investigations of methods and technologies for human excursions to Mars. As early as 1962 and lasting for a decade specific hardware system were examined for a Mars-Venus fly-by by humans during the 1970-1972 time frame. By the mid-60's, NASA studies indicated that the capabilities for a human Mars mission could be initiated utilizing Apollo-class technologies although such a mission would be quite expensive, highly complex and would have a long flight time. In 1969 a recommendation by von Braun to a space Task Group appointed by the President of the US presented a Space Program plan including a human Mars mission for 1982 which would utilize systems and experience from Apollo lunar program.

In January 1988 US President Ronald Reagan announced a National Space Policy that included Solar System exploration and the Mars trip.

In 1989, the 20th anniversary of Apollo 11, President George Bush (senior) announced a new vision of America in the 21st century with intention to go back on the Moon but this time back to stay as step before manned mission to Mars. Following this path president George Bush fixed plan for the first manned Moon Base in 2010 and first manned Mars landing in 2019 NASA released the "Report of Study on Human Exploration of the Moon and Mars". So the new vision of the president G. Bush from NASA was accepted. But that ambitious plan was dead on arrival after NASA estimated it would cost 400 billion dollars.

Dr.Sc. Ivan Bekey director of the Office of Exploration NASA in about 1990 thought that it was probably not feasible to go to Mars before 2000 but to leave it until after 2010 was probably unnecessary. President G. Bush statement was politically motivated, but Dr.Sc. Ivan Bekey knows all the mathematical methods for the technological forecasting and made a big mistake just for the reasons not taking into account political and economic reasons which are dominant that his forecasting about manned Mars mission has nothing to do with real life.

In January 2004 President of USA, George W. Bush (junior) announced a new directive for changes at NASA designed to get the US out of Earth orbit, by developing a new modular space vehicle for a return to the Moon to practice for an eventual landing on Mars.

Space Shuttle flights would be halted after about 2010. Right now shuttle remains grounded while engineers try to meet standards for repair and for a return to flight. NASA in 2004 still has at least 25 more Space Shuttle mission to go before it retires the venerable vehicle, but the agency and its contractors are shifting quickly to begin developing a replacement in the wake of President Bush's call for a return to the Moon.
The main focus of the new space policy would be on the vehicle that sustains humans in Earth orbit and transports them to the Moon and beyond. Getting to orbit with loads would be left to the existing fleet of evolved expandable launch vehicles already developed-Lockheed Martin Atlas and Boeing's Delta IV

In fact NASA would use reprogrammed money to begin work on Project Constellation the effort to develop a modular spaceship capable of taking humans beyond low-Earth orbit by 2014 and to begin plotting a return to the Moon as a proving ground for a technology that will eventually enable human exploration of Mars. Plan of the human return to the Moon as early as 2014 does not include permanent human habitation, by setting up a permanent base. Instead the Moon would serve as a nearby proving ground for the modular components that would be needed for a mission to Mars.             

The new space plan does not set a top line cost or target date for a Mars landing.

The problem to these plans will be budged restriction for NASA. Spending on other programs would be slowed or halted as the agency focuses on its new primary mission. For example the Space Shuttle mission to service the Hubble Space Telescope is cancelled. That means effectively killing the huge popular space telescope and that is not a popular move for scientific circlets in US. Contractors are worried that Bush plan lowball at the front end, leaving it for a latter administration to find funds for the major spending. In an election year it would be perceived as a Bush political plan.

Summary:
•    President G. Bush (senior) 1989 "…back to the Moon with manned Moon Base 2010 and first manned Mars landing in 2019". The plan was dead after NASA estimated it would cost 400 billion dollars.
•    President G. W. Bush 2004, return to the Moon 2014 not to set up a permanent base but to test components for a mission to Mars. Target date for Mars landing is not defined. The plan will face an uphill battle in an election year by a nagging conflict abroad and record budget deficits at home.

#5 Re: Human missions » Human Mars Landing Mission for 2033 » 2006-05-24 06:05:41

But the primary reason I (and probably other members of this board) have ignored this post is that it provides little of the concreat details necessary to critique its mission plan. Without the necessary details, it's little more than a book advertisment, something these boards are realy not the place for.

True and false.

True is that I am trying to inform people about new book. It is not typical book because it have different stand about time-frame announced by GB Sr. and Jr. for Mars mission. Because of that, you probably wouldn't find it in your neighbouring bookstores.

And if I would be in your place - I definitely wouldn't stand aside when somebody give me such information. Definitely I would ask for more details that I'm interested in.

From my previous experience in forums you usually have 90%of people who cant and 10% who can ask some meaningful question. Because of that my post can't be more marketing besides simple information for that 10%.

#6 Re: Human missions » Human Mars Landing Mission for 2033 » 2006-05-23 07:07:17

Why?

Maybe because of YT-1300 Transport (Millennium Falcon) desk model positioned on LED clock (on first pic)?

However in book are described:

9. SPACECRAFT FOR MANNED MARS MISSIONS

9.1. Description

From the outset of the spaceship design study, the concept of a modular space vehicle was used. Modularity provides the ability to disconnect parts of the vehicle for auxiliary function, for example Mars excursion. Modularity affords a safety margin by allowing the crew flexibility in deciding between abort modes, in case of failure of part of the ship.

The early concept of a Mars space vehicle has three man operated modules; the Earth entry module, the Mars excursion module and the Command module. The modern concept of an interplanetary spacecraft is to use nuclear-thermal propulsion to propel a crew capsule/habitat to Mars together with the Mars excursion module. It will not be encumbered with the Earth entry module. A new version of the Space Shuttle will be used for carrying people to and from Earth to the interplanetary ship.

The command module will be the major module of the ship, in which the crew will spend most of its time during the long flight to Mars. Most of the communication, guidance and data processing will be done in it, and it will remain the mission command centre until just before Earth orbit entry.

The command module will be divided into three major areas: Mission Control Centre, Living Area and Berthing Area. The spaces between decks will be used to house the auxiliary equipment and stores.

The mission control centre will contain the guidance and navigation equipment, control and monitoring equipment.     

The second compartment will be the living area, containing the galley, recreation space, medical facility, repair shop and airlock. Those members of the crew not standing in the control centre will spend most of their waking hours on this deck.

Sleeping quarters, with hygiene compartment, will be located in the berthing area. Spacious rooms will be provided to allow the crew some privacy, which is of great importance on such a long trip.
The life support system equipment will be located between the living and berthing areas in the space directly below the galley and above the bathroom.

Clothing and personal equipment is not a problem since the crew will be living in a controlled environment that will be more decorative than functional. Pressure suits will be provided for use in out-of-ship excursions.

The life support system must provide an environment which reproduces terrestrial environment within rather small tolerances. To minimize possible physiological problems, a sea level equivalent oxygen mixture should be provided. Therefore an inert gas such as nitrogen should be added to the spaceship atmosphere. The design of the spacecraft’s life support system must achieve the characteristics as described in the Chapter 8.

#7 Re: Human missions » Human Mars Landing Mission for 2033 » 2006-05-23 02:30:18

5. SELECTION OF THE EARTH-MARS SPACESHIPS TRAJECTORIES

5.1. General considerations

When a spaceship is assembled and ready for launch from Earth orbit toward Mars the basic mission sequence is simple and straight forward as follows:-

–    Interplanetary transfer to Mars
–    Capture in Mars orbit
–    Descent to the surface using a Lander
–    Surface mission operations
–    Ascent to Mars orbit
–    Rendezvous with the orbiting ship
–    Interplanetary transfer back to Earth
–    Capture in Earth orbit
–    Descent to the surface of Earth

While the basic mission sequence is simple enough, the complexity arises from the choice of mission profile and the choice of interplanetary systems. Many considerations are necessary to determine a range of launch dates, from Earth for the Earth-Mars transfer and from Mars for the Mars-Earth return transfer, which will be compatible with the goals and constraints of a manned Mars mission. There are two basic mission profiles:-

–    A slow, minimum energy transfer
–    A fast, high energy transfer

The second one is more costly, but only in terms of propellant required. The selection of a mission profile hinges on the selection of the propulsion system. If the mission is manned, short flight times are desirable and the possibility of mission aborts must be considered. Since the goals of the mission include performing experiments and data collection on Mars, a sufficient stay time must be allowed. Mission flexibility, which provides for various options on the types of trajectories to be used for the mission, must be considered. The selections of a particular mission profile, along with the required propulsion systems, are constrained by an array of mission requirements. Any discussion of Mars mission begins by looking at the flight mechanics, trajectory selection and the astronautic-dynamic constraints for reaching Mars.

#9 Re: Human missions » Human Mars Landing Mission for 2033 » 2006-05-19 04:43:15

Last evening we had book promotion and great opportunity to discuss with living legend - Air Force General (ret.) Zlatko Rendulic Dr.Sc.

Among other he was "The Man" who designed almost all ex-Yugoslav warbirds since 1960's such Soko's Galeb G-2, Kraguj J-20, Jastreb J-21 and also was involved in development of YUROM Orao J-22 and SuperGaleb G-4.

As lifetime member of International Astronautic Academy he was more than competent to made great analysis and give us most realistic predictions for human Mars mission. The public was highly interested in topic so presentation ended after 23.00 h.

Soon you will see link to photos.

#10 Re: Human missions » Human Mars Landing Mission for 2033 » 2006-05-14 10:29:07

Hi,

In front of JET MANGA Ltd. for space transport and services, it is my honour to present you new book
"Human Mars Landing Mission for 2033"
written by test pilot and aircraft designer - Air Force General (ret.) Zlatko Rendulic D.Sc. (more about author http://www.yuairwar.com/images/mars2.jpg)

More about book check on: http://www.yuairwar.com/mars.asp

mars.jpg

Book promotion will be held on May 18th, 2006 at 20.30h, in "012 STATION" (JET MANGA Ltd. business unit no.01). On that occasion author will sign the books and answer on your questions.

Address:

JET MANGA Ltd.
PJ01 "012 STATION"
Svetice 24
10000 Zagreb
CROATIA (Hrvatska)

Location: http://www.012station.hr/pictures/karta.jpg


All the best

Tino Jelavic M.S. in Aeronautics - pilot

Jet_Manga.jpg

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB